Motorcycles and scooters

[ThisDude]

Well today I went to pick up my brand new (to me at least) Honda Rebel. And also my Buddy Italia is done too at noho so I'll be picking that up too and immediately putting it on Ebay since my credit card debt is crushingly high right now. I'll post pics soon as I clean it up.

[BlueMark]

I'll be interested to hear how you feel it compares to the Buddy, it probably isn't any faster, and although phenomenally easy to handle for a motorcycle, not necessarily better than a Buddy.

[ThisDude]

If you drag start it ie rev it and drop the clutch and can manage to shift it fast enough it is quite a bit faster than the buddy. Unfortunately for most who ride the rebel it is a beginner bike so they haven't mastered how to shift it for speed yet. The key to faster acceleration is clutchless upshifting, I do that mostly to minimize tiring my hand out using the clutch. Yes I'm that lazy. Handling wise it cruises better than the buddy and is stable, but it being a "cruiser" it can't really turn all that much like the buddy lean angles are not it's forte. I do find it imminently ironic that they call it a "Rebel" since everyone who starts out with motorcycles will probably ride it in their MSF course. Might as well call it the Honda BadAss to really up the irony Well looking back I haven't really needed much space for hauling stuff so a motorcycle will suffice. So the buddy though convenient, just didn't suit me as I was taking it on the freeway almost exculsively. I do know one thing the scooter community is far more friendly and accepting than biker clubs. Though the honda rebel riders are a good bunch too.

[250koala]

If, I hadn't found the Buddy..I was gonna go with a Honda Rebel. Nice choice.

[weaseltamer]

If, I hadn't found the Buddy..I was gonna go with a Honda Rebel. Nice choice.

Same here. Except then i couldn't have all my fat nursing books on the floorboard.

[vitaminC]

So the buddy though convenient, just didn't suit me as I was taking it on the freeway almost exculsively.

A 250cc motorcycle isn't really that great on the freeway, either (I've got a Ninja 250R). I think it won't be long until you're looking for a more potent bike...

[JNV]

I ride both and I still feel nothing beats a scooter for commuting. My wife and I have been looking at a BMW motorcycle for touring, but even if we do get one we have no plans to sell our scooters.

[ThisDude]

I used to ride an Aprilia 250 motorcycle it had plenty of power for the freeway. I took my rebel to it's top speed and got up to 80, it's plenty fast enough to even blaze in the carpool lane but I usually take it easy going around 55 in the slow lane, I don't like the wind it can leave a ringing in your ear at high speeds, in fact most hearing loss from old Harley Davidson riders wasn't caused by their loud exhausts but wind noise. So I keep the speeds down. I'm not a speed demon anyway. I think my experience with the aprilia was a good one and people who keep moving up in size for motorcycles need to learn to ride better, how many times do you need to go over 100 anyway? I again took the rebel to the twisty mountains and though I wasn't passing the sportbikers like with the Buddy, because of severe peg scraping and my rear tire started to slide some, I was keeping up, they were surprised I could. And when they stopped I started talking to them, I think people are just lazy to shift, these small engines need to keep the revs boiling to get their power. A lot of these slower squids just couldn't get that through their double insulated skulls, probably cause they're also wearing $300 Arai head candy and have a big engine with enough torque to pull them out. I like smaller lighter bikes always have, the horsepower to accelerate out of a turn is there you just need to use it. I'd buy a Ninja 250 but for my needs, confort and the soon to be usefulness when I add saddlebags, a rear rack and topcase, and windshield, can't be matched by the ninja.

[ScooterDave]

how many times do you need to go over 100 anyway?

As many times as I can.

Dave

[vitaminC]

I took my rebel to it's top speed and got up to 80, it's plenty fast enough to even blaze in the carpool lane but I usually take it easy going around 55 in the slow lane, I don't like the wind it can leave a ringing in your ear at high speeds, in fact most hearing loss from old Harley Davidson riders wasn't caused by their loud exhausts but wind noise.

how many times do you need to go over 100 anyway?

When you're riding in the freeway in CA, it's not a matter of "wanting" to go fast, it's a matter of "needing" to go fast- in order to avoid being run down. IMHO, cruising the CA interstate at 55mph is not a good idea, especially in the LA area.

And regarding noise, have you considered using ear plugs when you ride? That will make a huge difference in your comfort (at any speed). Don't worry, it primarily blocks out wind noise, so you'll still be able to hear what's going on around you (not that you can without the earplugs anyway...).

Good luck.

[Tbone]

I know I've discussed it before either on this board and or on MV as well.

I'm a musician, I have used noise reduction ear plugs for years. I had before loosing them on my honeymoon a pair of Hearos ear plugs. I paid $30 many years ago. They are now around $15/16 or so.

http://www.hearos.com/earplugs/products-00211.html

I went recently to a Target and bought similar looking ones, that have the same decibel cut. $5. WORKS WONDERS in the rehearsal spot, onstage and when riding!

I actually tested not using them from home to work, then using them from work to home later that day. I was still able to hear cars, traffic noise. No wind rushing past my ears feeling when I had gotten home.

[JeremyZ]

I don't think you'll like the Rebel for long.

Before I came to scooters, I had a Nighthawk 250, which is very similar to the Rebel. The Nighthawk has more ground clearance, and more conventional steering geometry, so it handles better. But the Rebel has a disc front brake.

Shifting in traffic is a royal pain in the forearm. Clutchless shifting is going to wear out your gearbox in short order.

Also, the old air-cooled engine on these bikes takes a while to warm up, since they're jetted so lean.

I also had a Ninja 250, which I would have kept if the previous owner hadn't ruined it with a Yoshimura exhaust. (could get to the oil filter)

I think you're wrong about comfort, unless you're very tall. The Ninja 250 puts you at a slight forward lean, so the wind takes the weight off your wrists. The Rebel forces you into a slouch. Adding a windshield will help, but all the bumps still go right up your spine, instead of some going into your wrists. There may be more factory luggage options for the Rebel, but aftermarket for the Ninja will be just as good. The Ninja will go nearly 100 mph, so it isn't working as hard to go 75 as the Rebel. (even though the revs make it sound otherwise)

For local riding, the Buddy is king. I don't miss the Nighthawk at all. The Ninja I miss, but can't justify replacing it while I have the Buddy. For non-local stuff, I have the FJR.

I think the real issue here is that you get bored quickly. You'll miss the scooter. Mark my words. (that means a lot, coming from a motorcyclist!) You'll be back and looking for a 250 scooter before long, hehehe.

+1 on the ear plugs. I don't ride without them, except for the 1.7 mile ride to the train station. They make a world of difference in preventing deafness from wind blast. My dad is half deaf from driving around in his Lotus 7 without earplugs, I don't need to learn that lesson the hard way.

[ThisDude]

Well I do miss the Aprilia's 70 hp performance with only 250cc, but not all that much. And trucks in the slow lane don't go 70 plus so I think slow lane travel is good enough. I got used to going slow with the metropolitan and also with the Buddy on the freeway. I can pretty confidently say that I'm over going fast after having ridden myself out on a true performance machine. No kidding the Aprilia rs250 is worlds above ANY 600cc crotch rocket. But I honestly don't like going fast any more I like cruising and taking sidestreets when possible. As for clutchless shifting I can shift as smooth as clutched, with less shift lever effort and with absolutely no jerking the bike. In fact I know a lot of my friends have the clutch eliminator thingy on their sportbikes, it's the ignition blipper type and they've gone over 50,000 miles and when they tore their trannies apart it was good still. I'll keep an eye out for metal in my oil change and if I see any I'll know I'm doing it wrong. I did 30,000 on the Aprilia and rebuilt the whole engine after it wore out and the tranny was good still, no bent shift forks or rounded of drive dogs, I think they're called that, I forget. But still good, I figure I have that much left in the honda too.

[altair]

+1 on the ear plugs. I don't ride without them, except for the 1.7 mile ride to the train station. They make a world of difference in preventing deafness from wind blast. My dad is half deaf from driving around in his Lotus 7 without earplugs, I don't need to learn that lesson the hard way.

Out of curiosity, how fast do you go where earplugs are needed. I top out at 40 on my vino but usually go between 30-35 on the route to work. I also use an HJC FF helmet which is very quiet and I have very sensitive ears in terms of pain (I usually feel pain around 90 dB). Do you think I should be wearing them?

[vitaminC]

Out of curiosity, how fast do you go where earplugs are needed. I top out at 40 on my vino but usually go between 30-35 on the route to work. I also use an HJC FF helmet which is very quiet and I have very sensitive ears in terms of pain (I usually feel pain around 90 dB). Do you think I should be wearing them?

I think it's more of a personal preference as to when you should use them. I don't use them on my commute now, as it's only ~10 min, but anything longer and I definitely use them. But why not try it out for yourself? They're cheap and it only takes 30sec to put them in...

[Tbone]

+1 on the ear plugs. I don't ride without them, except for the 1.7 mile ride to the train station. They make a world of difference in preventing deafness from wind blast. My dad is half deaf from driving around in his Lotus 7 without earplugs, I don't need to learn that lesson the hard way.

Out of curiosity, how fast do you go where earplugs are needed. I top out at 40 on my vino but usually go between 30-35 on the route to work. I also use an HJC FF helmet which is very quiet and I have very sensitive ears in terms of pain (I usually feel pain around 90 dB). Do you think I should be wearing them?

Agreed on personal choice. I have a 3/4 and a small windscreen which pushes the air towards my helmet. I *might* go over 45 mph on certain parts of my commute.

I'd say go to Target or Wally World and find the ear plugs. Look for noise reduction ear plugs, NOT THE SQUISHY kind!!! I spent $4 and some change on mine that work as good as the previous $30 pair. For me it's worth it again as a musician and a rider. Two situations I choose to wear them in.

[gt1000]

Couple of quick comments on topics covered in this thread...

Ear plugs? I wear 'em on every motorcycle ride but never on the scooter. Wind noise and buffeting are nasty on the ears but I don't feel it until I'm going at least 50-70 mph sustained. Where I ride the Buddy I'm lucky if I hit 50 for even a few seconds. On the Duc, I can be riding 80+ for sustained periods. I also didn't know about Hearos so thanks to TBone for that idea. I'll have to try out a pair because I'm always looking for better gear.

Comfort? Seems like most people prefer the "sit up and beg" riding position of cruiser bikes and think it's cushy. Me? I wouldn't last a half hour in that position because it puts all the weight on your spinal cord and ass. Horrible. I much prefer a moderate sport riding position (forward lean, rear-set pegs) for long rides.

[JeremyZ]

Sustained wind noise can cause deafness even if you don't feel pain or ringing. I feel there's enough wind to hurt hearing at > 25 mph.

The squishy foam cheap ones work beautifully; they don't have to be fancy.

Buy a package of the cheap foam ones, make sure you put them in right, and try them for a week. (it will cost you something like $5)

After that, I think you'll see my point.

[vitaminC]

For extended trips it's also really nice to have custom earplugs. I had some made last year at the local moto-show, and when riding all day they are much more comfortable, as they are not putting pressure on the ear canal as they constantly try to expand. Granted, they were relatively expensive (~$60), but they last a long time and fit perfect.

[gt1000]

Sustained wind noise can cause deafness even if you don't feel pain or ringing. I feel there's enough wind to hurt hearing at > 25 mph.

This comment piqued my interest so I've got ask what kind of helmet you're wearing. At under 25 miles per hour, my EXO-400 is silent.

[ThisDude]

It's the wind buffeting not your bike. You don't seem to hear it because your brain filters out wind buffeting pretty well but it's there.

[azpenguin]

You may be just fine with that Rebel for a while.

I bought a Nighthawk 250 back in October 2003. It was my first bike. Very easy to handle and very little maintenance needed. The Rebel has the same engine and transmission, so you'll have the same low maintenance. 70 mpg is also very nice... the Buddy does get better MPG, but 70 is still quite nice. Especially with a larger gas tank. (I think the Rebel holds 2.8 before reserve; not positive on that.)

And I've ridden this bike all over. Hot weather, cold weather, freeway, city streets, flat deserts, high mountains. I've ridden it out of state several times. (In Arizona, that's a long way. To get to Four Corners from my house it's 466 miles.) I've done everything from quick jaunts to the store to 500+ mile day rides. 250koala and I took it 2-up from Tucson to Durango, CO. I've ridden more 200+ mile days than I can remember on it. It's got 24,000 miles on it, and the only reason it doesn't have more is that I've put 11,000 on my other bike.

I now have a Shadow ACE 750. Corbin seat, windshield, and it rides fantastic on the highway. It feels totally bada** just cruising at 35 mph. But you know what? I still ride the Nighthawk several days a week. It's so light and easy to pick up and go, and it's fun to ride. It's also extremely easy to push through traffic, much like the Buddy.

Check the elevation on the sign... even jetted lean, it still ran pretty well.

[ThisDude]

It's got only 2.3-ish before the reserve making the realistic range for me about 180 miles before reserve. I get 78 mpg on it, highway on the buddy was somewhere around 83. So it's pretty good for longer rides than the buddy was good for. I'm getting the windshield and a seat pad pretty soon. I find the seat too low like on my metropolitan and it puts pressure on my tailbone. A raised and more cushioned seat will fix that quickly. I rode on a nighthawk before and it was pretty good though it is geared lower than the rebel so it could explain your worse gas mileage, while I rode purely in the city I managed to get 93 mpg though so I think it gets just as good mileage as the buddy.