Modern Buddy

I'm back from DealerExpo in Indianapolis... It's official:

The new Blur (photos)

no captions yet, I'll write up more for 2strokebuzz, but wanted to share the news here first.

Those photos are the 2007 200cc Blur. It's grey and black. That one's a demo and didn't have badges, but Genuine Roy told me the vinyl decals of the current model will be replaced with a smaller 3-D plastichrome "Blur" logo.

The grey/black 150cc model will be out in the next few weeks, and I believe he said the 200cc model will be here in May. I planned to crash the dealer meeting, but I drank WAAAY too much saturday night. POC Phil will fill me in tonight.

Talking to several dealers, it sounds like *our* Blur wasn't a huge seller, (especially compared to the Buddy 125, which is selling really well). I think maybe rumors of the 200cc didn't help 150 sales, but also I think Genuine decided to try a more subtle color scheme for their next batch.

If any of you don't follow the Buddy forum, the 2007 Buddies have a larger, brighter headset and improved electrics (LED taillight, phone charger). Red has been added to the standard colors, and there's a very nice-looking two-tone green "Serie Italia."

I think there was also talk of a bigger Rattler (or was it Black Cat?) and they had a Stella on display, but there's no news on that front. Sorry I'm not a better journalist, the whole weekend was (no pun intended) a blur.

Bryan[/url]

Now I'm in trouble.

A 200cc Blur in black... very tempting.

Must... not... go... to Metro Scooter.

My wife would kill me.

Also, to follow up the other rumor in the old 2007 Blur thread, Diamo is theoretically importing the Dragster, amid other reports that Kinetic is planning to make them (after pretending they never said that last year).

Diamo had an old 50cc dragster on display. I've read arguments online that the photo on the Italjet and Diamo sites is a 3-D rendering or a photoshop collage. I think they had something on display in Milan, not sure what that was. Some of my dealer friends suspect the new Dragster is nothing but vaporware invented to get dealers to carry other Diamo scooters. CFmoto makes a Torpedo clone now, and Diamo had that on display, too, so I'd bet if the Dragster gets built, it'll be built by CFmoto or Kinetic and not be as good quality as the original (note that the quality of the italian-built Dragsters was short-of-legendary). I would be moderately surprised to see the Dragster on showroom floors at all, I would be utterly beyond amazed to see it by March (as someone reported earlier). If they don't have a working protoype to display now, they're not going to have it on floors before summer at the very earliest.

Diamo told my buddy that they had the old 50cc model on display because the display bike got held up in customs. Judging by the hundreds of bold-faced lies I heard this weekend, that sounded pretty thin. I have no doubt they were passing it off as new to anyone who didn't instantly ask them why they had a 2002 model on display.

Maaann... it was already hard enough decided if I wanted this or the Buddy...lol. Thanks for all the info and pics! Any other changes? (it's amazing how much of an impact color makes) Mmmm... 200cc

That's pretty much all I've got. I forgot to ask about MSRP (duh).

A few people asked me "wow, I bet you feel stupid now" but to be honest, I'm still really happy with mine and I like the orange better and rarely feel the need for more power. On top of that, the 200 will presumably be close to--or over--$4000, there are some other bikes i'd probably prefer at that price.

Bryan

still more sobering dragster news.... sucks...

Blur 200 MSRP $3699 as of this morning.

Smart pricing, puts it right between the Bet&Win 150 and 250.

Phil
POC

pocphil wrote:Blur 200 MSRP $3699 as of this morning.

Smart pricing...

I like that strategy. A lot. Has anybody actually ridden the 200 yet? If it's as good as I think, it's going to be a hard bike to keep in stock... All that bike needed was more motor, a new color scheme, and a seat redesign. It looks like we got everything but the seat. Usually, two outa three ain't bad, but, in this case, it's great.

lobsterman wrote:Must... not... go... to Metro Scooter.

I know the feeling!! I keep saying to myself:
No....Room....In.....The.....Garage!

jrsjr wrote:All that bike needed was more motor, a new color scheme, and a seat redesign. It looks like we got everything but the seat.

I like the Blur seat.

Wonder how much of a trade in my dealer would offer me if I traded up to the 200?

By the way ... is it really a 200? Or is it like a 177cc branded as a 200?

-Mark

The pictures of the new Blur look really good. I have always thought it was short sighted of Genuine to think that they could sell a line of scooters that only came in one color. Especially orange.

I also think that given the choice between the 'new' black and the 'old' orange, I would still choose the orange. Although, I have removed all of the orange stickers. I am going to try and find some more personalized decals for the front and the sides to replace at a later date.

A word of caution to anyone thinking of taking the stickers off their Blur, it is harder than you might think to get them off without damaging the plastic underneath. The trick is to get a blade under the corner and peel, not to try and scrape. And for any of the nicks you might create while doing this, the GM gunmetal touch-up paint is close, but it is a little dark when you are in the sunlight.

donajgra wrote:it is harder than you might think to get them off without damaging the plastic underneath.

Really? i just got a fingernail under mine and they peeled right off... maybe the adhesive was still fresh when I did mine.

Bb.

BlueMark wrote:By the way ... is it really a 200? Or is it like a 177cc branded as a 200?

I found this Hong Kong site about the PGO G-Max 200. I can't read most of it, but in the spec section it claims the engine at 199.1cc, which means it's a real 200. That version also has a 2 valve head and makes 16hp. That should offer even better acceleration than the Blur 150, and hopefully a higher top speed as well. 1.5 kg-m works out to 10.8 ft lb of torque.

I posted the same site in another thread here, with the google translation. It also says the engine is water cooled which several people dispute.

Just wondering what the official specs are.

-Mark

I had a heck of a time getting the orange stickers off. They would have never fallen off on their own.

hair dryer

I have to say, not my style of scoot but I like it a lot. The color scheme is a HUGE improvement. This seems like a much better addition to the Genuine lineup than the '06 Blur, which seemed like a stylistic alternative to the Buddy without substantive performance differences.

As far as getting decals off: You can always hit decals with a blow dryer to get them off. Works quite well.

ericalm wrote:which seemed like a stylistic alternative to the Buddy without substantive performance differences.

I would have to disagree. In terms of raw acceleration or top speed, the two might not have differed greatly, but in terms of braking and handling the Blur is leaps and bounds ahead of the Buddy, and most other scooters for that matter.

Bryce-O-Rama wrote:

ericalm wrote:which seemed like a stylistic alternative to the Buddy without substantive performance differences.

I would have to disagree. In terms of raw acceleration or top speed, the two might not have differed greatly, but in terms of braking and handling the Blur is leaps and bounds ahead of the Buddy, and most other scooters for that matter.

Bryce,

Do you think the Blur 200 will share the handling characteristics with the 150? If so, it sounds like a great deal to me.

OK. It's better than the orange / gray, but it's still reminds me of Curt Cobain and a rainy Seattle day. Plus, how easy is it going to be for drivers to see a grey scooter?

How about bright red or a shiny maroon? How about racing blue? Racing Green? Cheerful exciting colors like the Gmaxes elsewhere in the world? What's the fascination with gray? I see the Blur and feel like slitting my wrists or listening to a week of John Lee Hooker tunes.

At least they're trying to find a winning color scheme.

The 200 cc scoot sounds like one heck of a ride. Why 200 instead of 250?

Chris

P.S. Thanks for posting all of the show pictures. I enjoyed them very much.

masssheltie wrote:... Plus, how easy is it going to be for drivers to see a grey scooter?....

I have a silver/gray bike and wear a "Icon" vest.

lobsterman wrote:Do you think the Blur 200 will share the handling characteristics with the 150? If so, it sounds like a great deal to me.

I believe it will. The 200 retains the same rear suspension that the 150 has. I have not heard of any other changes, so I would be surprised if the handling and braking were different. I wouldn't be surprised if the 200 weighs a few more pounds than the 150, but I doubt there is a significant weight penalty, if one exists at all.

masssheltie wrote:The 200 cc scoot sounds like one heck of a ride. Why 200 instead of 250?

There is a 250cc version available in the UK. It is liquid cooled (more costly) and it has the more conventional rear suspension that most scooters have. The 200 offers 16 horsepower and 10.8 foot pounds of torque (Hong Kong specs, the US version may differ for emissions). The 250 provides 18hp and 14 foot pounds.

The torque increase is nice, but the horsepower difference is by no means a massive gulf. The other downside of the 250 is weight. At 326 lb (I believe that spec is the dry weight), it weighs about as much as a Vespa GTS250ie or an Aprilia SportCity. The dry weight of the Blur seems to be about 275lb. So that's a 50lb weight penalty for a modest increase in power. The Blur 200 burdens each of its horsepower with about 17lb of scooter (plus fluids, rider, etc.). Each foot pound of torque has to motivate about 25.5lb. The 250, on the other hand has 23lb for each foot pound of torque, and 18 pounds for each horsepower.

Without knowing the torque curve of each model, and the gearing and several other factors it's hard to say which one would accelerate faster or have the better top speed. My guess would be that the 250 would accelerate a bit better and top out a little higher. However it would trade braking and handling (increased weight and suspension changes) for top speed and acceleration. I've not had the chance to ride the two at all, much less back to back, but with the information available the 200 seems to be the one to have.

Maybe they could put the old Blur 150 in the Buddy. I could use the upgrade.

ECS

Elm Creek Smith wrote:Maybe they could put the old Blur 150 in the Buddy.

The Blur 150 engine is oil cooled, so it would involve a lot more than just an engine swap to put it into the Buddy.

-Mark

It's air and oil cooled. There are cooling fins on the cylinder and cylinder head that air is forced over to take heat away from the cylinder. The oil cooler keeps the temperature of the oil from going up to the point where it gets damaged by excess heat. It also draws heat out of the engine.

The oil cooler could be mounted somewhere on the Buddy. It would require some fabrication, but it's by no means impossible. Honestly, that would be the least of your worries in such a swap. Dealing with different tire sizes and the gearing differences is one hurdle. Then you have the difference between the rear disc brake of the Blur and the rear drum of the Buddy. The Blur has a support arm on the right hand side of the wheel. The Buddy's rear suspension is entirely single sided. To say the least, it would not be a simple swap.

I did a little more sleuthing today. According to this site, the G-Max 150 weighs in at 129kg or 283.8lb. According to the Hong Kong site the Blur 200 weighs 135kg, or 297lb. Just a few pounds heavier. Keep in mind, these measurements don't all come from the same site, therefore they may not all be measured the same way. I'm not sure whether they are giving dry weight or curb weight. I would love it if some wonderful Blur owner would get a Blur 150 on the scales, and then if we could get a Blur 200 onto the scales once someone buys one and comes here proudly posting about their wonderful new ride.

I did discover that the G-Max 150 is rated at 11.5hp and 8.7 pound foot of torque. So for what might be a very modest weight increase of 5%, there is a 24% increase in torque and 39% increase in horsepower. The $200 bump in price works out to only a 6% increase. This is an equation I'm liking. I hope that at some point I get a chance to follow up on my Blur 150 review with a romp on the Blur 200.

Since it is sounding like the new 200 is going to be a lot better for the top end while still utilizing the same body and suspension, is there any rumor of a big bore kit for the 150s?

is there any rumor of a big bore kit for the 150s?

Yeah, what he said.

I'm thinking a big bore kit + Dr. Pulley sliding roller weights. Zoom zoom.

-Mark

I've not heard anything about a big bore kit for the Blur.

What I do know is that the Blur 150 has a 57.8mm stroke and a 57.5mm bore. The 125cc version of the PGO G-Max and the Buddy 125 have a 60mm stroke by a 51.5mm bore. The 200cc engine has a stroke of 60mm and a bore of 65mm. Assuming the Blur 150 engine and the 200cc engine are even related, the piston and cylinder would only take you up to 191cc.

I'm pretty sure that I'll be picking up a Blur 200 as my scooter of choice for long-distance scootering (like from Louisville to Chicago and back, where the terrain is boring and the objective is just to get there faster). I love my Stella and Vespa around town but get frustrated that they can't cruise at much more than 55, and sometimes you just want to cover some ground.

I like the all-black look and will be eager to report back on the performance of this machine, I really enjoyed riding a Blur 150 for 800 miles or so last year. Bryce, thank you for all of your thoughtful comments and calculations, it's really nice to see an enthusiast who is so perceptive, knows as much as you do and can share their thoughts in such a user-friendly way. You're an asset to this board and the community. You too Bb, thanks for your contributions to this board and scooterdom in general. Mucho respect.

That's a good solid ride. Are you planning to make that trip often?

It's 300 miles each way to Chicago or my hometown in Michigan, I will probably do it several times a year. Trips to scooter rallies that are within 300 miles might still be by Stella (since my Stella is associated with my 10,000 mile trip and a great conversation piece), but for higher-speed country rides and "get there faster" trips, the Blur 200 will be a blast. Some would say "why not just get a cheap motorcycle," which is a valid point, but I don't want to get sucked-into the world of motorcycles, I'm pretty happy riding scooters exclusively. And I think this is a great product, and I designed the logo for it, which I can't say for a Honda CB600 or something.

Designing something that you get to use is pretty awesome, with bonus points for doing something that can be used while riding.



This was my senior design thesis project in college. I designed and made these armored riding pants from 1000 denier Cordura, and used 3M Scotchlite for the zipper flaps. They also have a polyester athletic mesh liner that has pockets for CE armor knee pads. I wear it a lot and people are always asking me where to get their own.

Bryce-O-Rama wrote:I've not heard anything about a big bore kit for the Blur.

What I do know is that the Blur 150 has a 57.8mm stroke and a 57.5mm bore. The 125cc version of the PGO G-Max and the Buddy 125 have a 60mm stroke by a 51.5mm bore. The 200cc engine has a stroke of 60mm and a bore of 65mm. Assuming the Blur 150 engine and the 200cc engine are even related, the piston and cylinder would only take you up to 191cc.

How about a big bore kit for the buddy then? Any info on how similar the blur 150 and the buddy 125 cylinders/blocks are? A blur piston with the buddy's 60mm stroke would bump my buddy up to 157cc. Not too bad of a bump if they bolt together without any machining.

DO3 wrote:How about a big bore kit for the buddy then? Any info on how similar the blur 150 and the buddy 125 cylinders/blocks are? A blur piston with the buddy's 60mm stroke would bump my buddy up to 157cc. Not too bad of a bump if they bolt together without any machining.

The problem I can see with that is whether or not the cylinder is long enough. As mentioned, the Blur 150 has a 57.8mm stroke. This is 2.2mm shorter than the Buddy 125. If it's not as long then you face clearance issues between the head and the piston. Perhaps even more likely are clearance issues between the valves and piston. Perhaps the 150 has a longer connecting rod, perhaps it doesn't. Without measuring all of the parts in question, it's hard to say.

Even if all of those parts fit together, it's hard to say what the power increase would be. The Blur 150 makes 11.5hp, the Buddy 125 makes 9.4hp. Another 5-10cc doesn't seem hugely promising. If the 125 cases will allow the 200 barrel to bolt up, even if some machining is required, that would be one heck of a swap. Going from 9.4hp to 16hp would be a pretty big jump. It might well be too much for a Buddy.

Aside from rumors I've read on this board about a big bore kit for the Buddy 125, I've not heard anything about one.

Bryce-O-Rama wrote:It might well be too much for a Buddy.

Yeah, I know this is a Buddy list and I'll get slaughtered for saying this, but it seems to me like the 125 engine is kind of pushing the performance limits of the frame. That sounds like a slam, but it's a complement, it's awesome to have a 125 in such a small, light bike. But I think a 150 in a Buddy frame would start to threaten the safety/stability of the frame, wheels, brakes, etc.

illnoise wrote:

Bryce-O-Rama wrote:It might well be too much for a Buddy.

Yeah, I know this is a Buddy list and I'll get slaughtered for saying this, but it seems to me like the 125 engine is kind of pushing the performance limits of the frame. That sounds like a slam, but it's a complement, it's awesome to have a 125 in such a small, light bike. But I think a 150 in a Buddy frame would start to threaten the safety/stability of the frame, wheels, brakes, etc.

so the rumored 177 kit would be entirely too much, you say?

Where's the 177 rumor? is it for the blur or the buddy?

I was talking about a Buddy kit. I think a 177 Buddy, or even a 150 Buddy, would be a little bit scary, yeah. A 177 Buddy with a strengthened frame and improved brakes would be amazing for racing, but I can't see Genuine selling a Buddy 177 kit for street use, it just seems like more than the rest of the bike could handle. Maybe I'm wrong. Probably I'm wrong...

A 177 Blur would be great, if they could make a bolt-on kit at a reasonable price. I hope someone makes one, but since most top-end kits cost a couple hundred bucks and the 200 only costs a couple hundred bucks more than the 150, and they didn't sell that many 150s here, and no one in their right mind will buy a 150 after the 200 comes out, I don't see why Genuine would invest the development costs of a 177 kit. Hopefully someone, somewhere is working on one, but still, I'm pretty happy with the 150.

Bb.

illnoise wrote:Where's the 177 rumor? is it for the blur or the buddy?

I was talking about a Buddy kit. I think a 177 Buddy, or even a 150 Buddy, would be a little bit scary, yeah. A 177 Buddy with a strengthened frame and improved brakes would be amazing for racing, but I can't see Genuine selling a Buddy 177 kit for street use, it just seems like more than the rest of the bike could handle. Maybe I'm wrong. Probably I'm wrong...

A 177 Blur would be great, if they could make a bolt-on kit at a reasonable price. I hope someone makes one, but since most top-end kits cost a couple hundred bucks and the 200 only costs a couple hundred bucks more than the 150, and they didn't sell that many 150s here, and no one in their right mind will buy a 150 after the 200 comes out, I don't see why Genuine would invest the development costs of a 177 kit. Hopefully someone, somewhere is working on one, but still, I'm pretty happy with the 150.

Bb.

the rumor mill has been 177 kit for the buddy, and i cant say that i disagree with you in terms of that definitely pushing the limits of the platform's capabilities... i can dig the attraction of the certain power increase, but the suspension and brakes, let alone the frame, certainly would beg for some attention at 177.... im psyched to see the blur up to 200.... aside from the bet&win 250, non-piaggio choices in the 150-500 gap are limited, especially when it comes to the "sportier" take on scooters....

so - any more news on when these (150s) will hit the dealers and the MSRP?

chris brewer wrote:so - any more news on when these (150s) will hit the dealers and the MSRP?

I think the new (charcoal) blurs may already be here, and I believe the price is the same. I've emailed Genuine about the 200 (and other rumors) and they're not talking (everyone I usually get Genuine gossip from is being pretty quiet.) I read that "40HP rotary" rumor on the Buddy list and sort of laughed it off on 2strokebuzz, but since then, I've heard more, and either Genuine is testing the scooter grapevine with some sort of April-fools DaVinci-code rumor plot, or they're working on something pretty insane.

Bb.

I read that "40HP rotary" rumor on the Buddy list and sort of laughed it off on 2strokebuzz, but since then, I've heard more, and either Genuine is testing the scooter grapevine with some sort of April-fools DaVinci-code rumor plot, or they're working on something pretty insane.

Interesting. I did find a 40ish HP rotary engine prototype (posted here) That at 6in by 6in could easily fit into a scooter - I volunteer my Blur! But I figured you are right that it was a garbled mistatement about a fourTEEN HP engine with rotary valves, or possibly a ROTAX engine.

I found an awesome 125cc 2-stroke on the Rotax website that is rated at 30HP (!)


Rotax Engine Type 122 - 22 kW note Aprilia name on housing

Rotax also makes 4 strokes and engines mated to CVTs . So maybe Genuine is playing with a Rotax 14HP 4 stroke. But wouldn't it be incredibly cool if there was a Rotax 150cc 2 Stroke that cranked out 40HP? Of course it would probably get the same mileage as my car, but would be fast enough to see red-shift.

-Mark

illnoise wrote:

chris brewer wrote:so - any more news on when these (150s) will hit the dealers and the MSRP?

I think the new (charcoal) blurs may already be here, and I believe the price is the same. I've emailed Genuine about the 200 (and other rumors) and they're not talking (everyone I usually get Genuine gossip from is being pretty quiet.) I read that "40HP rotary" rumor on the Buddy list and sort of laughed it off on 2strokebuzz, but since then, I've heard more, and either Genuine is testing the scooter grapevine with some sort of April-fools DaVinci-code rumor plot, or they're working on something pretty insane.

Bb.

yup they are here. Saw a black blur at Scooterworks when I went for an oil change last week. I believe the price was the same, though I'm not sure since once I saw it wasn't the 200cc I lost interest. They had no word on any 200 model though, and they're right next door to the distributor so either its not coming or he's keeping quiet.

Although truthfully I'd be much happier to start seeing some Genuine mods for the current 150. I could definitely use an extra 5-10 cruising speed.

Hey, Beeb, have you ridden yours on Lake Shore Drive yet? I haven't... not due to fear of not keeping up, but because the potholes are atrocious!

BlueMark wrote:I found an awesome 125cc 2-stroke on the Rotax website that is rated at 30HP (!)

Rotax Engine Type 122 - 22 kW note Aprilia name on housing

The Aprilia RS125 uses that engine. I'm fairly certain it's also in the Derbi GPR 125 and GPR Nude. There are 2 versions of the engine. One making 15hp, and the fire breathing 30hp model.

I'd love to build my own vision of a new Lambretta around that engine. It would be fun.

Sometimes there's a fine line between "viral marketing" and wishful thinking and I think we may have crossed that border in this thread.

jrsjr wrote:Sometimes there's a fine line between "viral marketing" and wishful thinking and I think we may have crossed that border in this thread.

I hope no one is taking these discussions of super motors seriously.

I'm not!

But is sure is fun to run with wild ideas and unlikely rumors.

....

Let's see now, standard Blur is about 11.5hp, right? Let's say top speed (for real, not wind or gravity assisted, not indicated speed) is about 65mph with a 175lb rider. Hmmm.... Radmax rotary engine is smaller than the Blur's C5, weighs about the same, 42hp. Will need upgraded CVT for sure, dual disk brakes up front, beefer disk in back, let's figure a weight penalty of 30lbs. Figuring power to weight ratio, apply inverse square law, and the new top speed goes from 65mph to 842mph, slightly over the speed of sound... hmmmm ... something looks off, but hella fast fershure.

OK, my back of the envelope suggests something more like 118mph. Plenty enough to kill ya.

-Mark

360 wrote:Hey, Beeb, have you ridden yours on Lake Shore Drive yet? I haven't... not due to fear of not keeping up, but because the potholes are atrocious!

I've been on the Eisenhower a few times, it's allright in the right couple lanes, but getting to the far left lane (to exit at Austin or Harlem, which I need to do) is terrifying.

LSD is a mess, I've ridden some other scooters there, but never the blur. Chad Schaefer hit a pothole on LSD once and his vespa cowl bounced off and got smashed by a truck.

Saw the 2007 Charcoal Grey Blur on Saturday.

Very pretty.

Sat on it on but didn't ride it, not even a mile on the odometer yet.

It would be way prettier if the inside had a 200cc engine instead of the 150. Maybe next year.

lobsterman wrote:Saw the 2007 Charcoal Grey Blur on Saturday.

Very pretty.

Sat on it on but didn't ride it, not even a mile on the odometer yet.

It would be way prettier if the inside had a 200cc engine instead of the 150. Maybe next year.

If it had a 200cc engine in it you could probably ride it if you bought me a beer.

I saw the new black/grey Blur today at Metro Scooter in the 'Nati and must say it looked better in person than I expected. Wish mine were this color scheme...

But mine is ORANGE! I did remove the 'Blur (nose) and Blur 150 stickers on each side and will soon add some new pinstriping, but more on that later.

blurblaine wrote:I saw the new black/grey Blur today at Metro Scooter in the 'Nati and must say it looked better in person than I expected. Wish mine were this color scheme...

But mine is ORANGE! I did remove the 'Blur (nose) and Blur 150 stickers on each side and will soon add some new pinstriping, but more on that later.

I got this black/gray Blur last Saturday - I actually kind of like the orange better (better visibility on the street), but they only had the 2007 model. Too bad in the US we can't get that PGO GMax red color scheme ...

One thing I noticed, it has hazard lights where the 2006 model had some kind of headlight on/off switch? Not sure of any other changes besides color and this switch. It would be nice if the instrumentation readings were improved from the 2006 reports, but haven't had a chance to try to get a precise read on that yet.