filler up!

[gt1000]

trevo-man found a plate that states-fuel 92 rq unleaded, I have one also,so I assume it is on all american buddy's Isn't that our premium?

I could be totally off on this, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that octane ratings were not consistent internationally...? Or was that the crack talking?

If anything, it's the meth talking. But you're right about octane ratings, they do vary from country to country. If memory serves, we go by RON but I can't recall the other standard.

[nissanman]

RM/2 method whatever that is

[Roose Hurro]

Anybody thought of putting a temp gage on their Buddy, and seeing if Premium does indeed run hotter?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[polianarchy]

trevo-man found a plate that states-fuel 92 rq unleaded, I have one also,so I assume it is on all american buddy's Isn't that our premium?

I could be totally off on this, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that octane ratings were not consistent internationally...? Or was that the crack talking?

Mmm...crack....*

One of ModBud's intrepid members mentioned that in a previous octane-argument thread. He or his dad is a geologist? Something like that.

*Ya know, like a good time in Ireland?

[r0sa]

i put reg

[macgawd]

While I don't yet own a scoot, I do own a Dodge Magnum R/T with a 340 hp HEMI, and the manual says in big bold letters to NEVER put high octane gasoline in it. My gut feeling is that if high octane gasoline is bad for my high-performance engine, it certainly can't be good for a tiny scooter engine.

Michael

[Rokky]

Adding a bigger gas tank to the Buddy just puts more weight on the scooter.
This will cost you in gas mileage by having to haul around those extra gallons.
Also, with all that extra gas you put yourself and others at risk as you become a rolling fire bomb if hit by another vehicle.
The size of gas tanks are designed to be compatible with the size of the vehicle.
It has to do with weight distribution.
A gallon of gas weighs approximately 8 pounds.

[ScootStevie]

There still seems to be quite a range of what octane people put in. When I bought my scoot, I was told to put in premium. Maybe 89 would be better. Although I haven't had any problems with my scoot yet.

[ericalm]

There still seems to be quite a range of what octane people put in. When I bought my scoot, I was told to put in premium. Maybe 89 would be better. Although I haven't had any problems with my scoot yet.

As far as I know, no one has had any problems running 87 in their Buddys.

[TVB]

Adding a bigger gas tank to the Buddy just puts more weight on the scooter.
This will cost you in gas mileage by having to haul around those extra gallons.
Also, with all that extra gas you put yourself and others at risk as you become a rolling fire bomb if hit by another vehicle.
The size of gas tanks are designed to be compatible with the size of the vehicle.
It has to do with weight distribution.
A gallon of gas weighs approximately 8 pounds.

Scooter riders vary in weight by at least 10 times that, and by that reckoning I put on about a 1.5 gallons since last summer (looks like it, too). So I don't see how adding another 8 pounds of gas under the seat would produce a weight distribution problem. The biggest problem with a bigger gas tank is that it would be bigger. I really wish my Buddy had a 2-gallon tank, but I don't want a smaller pet carrier to make that possible.

[Rokky]

All vehicles when designed factor in weight distribution minus the occupants.
The bigger the vehicle the bigger the fuel tank.
Now, the skinner the driver or rider the faster the vehicle goes.
The fatter the operator the slower you go.

Race car drivers are usually thin or small or both and the race cars have small gas tanks to keep down the weight, hence they go faster. This accounts for numerous pit stops.
So, rather then have big gas tanks on scooters, and the manufacturers take this under consideration when building them due to the different size riders, it would be better to take a large gas tank and put it on wheels and tow it behind the scooter.

This way the heavy rider even though he or she is putting a huge amount of weight on the rear wheel is better off in this case to have a small gas tank under the seat rather then the extra 20 pounds or so of added gas in a larger tank.

By towing a gas trailer you can carry much more fuel for an extended ride and you will not be defeating the weight distribution factor.

[Vic]

I use mid-grade gas in my scooter.

I am also a little slow, but this weekend I happened across a solution to trying to figure out how much is enough but not too much at a fill up. I pull up to the pump and hit my kill switch-leave the key in the on position. I then get the gas, but watch the fuel gauge, if I stop after putting in about .8 gal, the fuel gauge will catch up within a second or two and I can see very easily how close I am. I fill up while standing on the right side of my scooter and I go until the F is just barely completely visible and stop at that-whatever it happens to be. I go slowly after that initial .8 gal and just watch the gauge carefully.

It is a LOT easier for me than constantly removing the pump nozzle and looking-trying to determine where the level is in relation to the tank capacity, and all of that. I have a really hard time determining by looking anyway.

I think these things have floats in them a friend's Stella got fuel inside her float, so it is going to take being careful and knowing your scoot, but it at least gives a newbie an idea of a way to get a feel for how much to put in from a given level of empty.

Cheers,
-v

[Lostmycage]

<a href="topic11045.html#142618">>Here's a good quick read<</a>

Also, here's the tentative snippet from the FAQ (still in progress):

<a href="viewtopic.php?t=1015#11071">POC Phil's recommendation </a> on Fuel as well as an explanation as to why the owners manuals sometimes recommends 92 grade fuel. The main point is that 87 works just fine and is the preferred octane for use in the Buddy engines.

There will always be people that argue for one grade or another, but 87 grade has a solid history of causing absolutely no problems ever on the 4-stroke Buddies.

With the 2-strokes, I've heard very experienced mechanics and 2-stroke riders tell me that 93 octane helps it run smoother, but I'm still in need of an explanation (I only half paid attention). Input gladly accepted.

[TVB]

All vehicles when designed factor in weight distribution minus the occupants.

They also factor in the varying weight of riders, and that renders your gas-weight analysis pretty much meaningless.

[Apiarist]

i usually put in 1.2 gallons at fill up

i used 87 octane for a long time after reading up on it on this site. some months later my engine kept running after i shut it off. the mechanic at my local dealership said, oh yeah, you are supposed to use high octanne. after a couple months of using 92, the continued running after shut down stopped.

true the mechanic is only one who mechanics, and he might just be going by the plate on the buddy not realizing it may not be the US standard of measure. maybe i will switch to 89.

[bunny]

My other favorite scooter moment:

Walked into the gas station (as the pumps were not CC friendly - how archaic of them) and handed the guy $2.25. Told him I need to fill up. He laughed, pushed the button and off I went. Walked back in five minutes later and asked for my change. His eyes popped when he saw he owed me $0.75.

[ScootStevie]

My other favorite scooter moment:

Walked into the gas station (as the pumps were not CC friendly - how archaic of them) and handed the guy $2.25. Told him I need to fill up. He laughed, pushed the button and off I went. Walked back in five minutes later and asked for my change. His eyes popped when he saw he owed me $0.75.

Reminds me of the first time I filled up my buddy. Gave the attendant $3 not knowing what to expect. Um going to ask for your change on $3 is kinda funny Followed by many questions.."how fast does that go...will it make it to hollywood??"

[Rokky]

All vehicles when designed factor in weight distribution minus the occupants.

They also factor in the varying weight of riders, and that renders your gas-weight analysis pretty much meaningless.

I'm just the messenger..

[Kaos]

While I don't yet own a scoot, I do own a Dodge Magnum R/T with a 340 hp HEMI, and the manual says in big bold letters to NEVER put high octane gasoline in it. My gut feeling is that if high octane gasoline is bad for my high-performance engine, it certainly can't be good for a tiny scooter engine.

Michael

Umm, thats due to the Hemispherical head design(Hemi anyone?)
and the way it causes combustion.

I always run Premium in my Buddy, but honestly I don't think it makes a ton of difference. I only do so because its only a few cents more and I'm using the slower burn rate of high octane gas to (hopefully) keep me from running too lean at high speeds.

[TVB]

I'm just the messenger..

And I'm just pointing out that the message doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

[skully93]

I know that Genuine scoots are more Euro inspired, but many asian built scoots, like my Yamaha Zuma, runs better, with more power and better gas mileage, on the lowest octane gas. You want that low point of combustion on most of them, though a lot of the 'older' Vespas and such had to have higher octanes for optimal performance.

Some confusion is caused because Europe rates octane different too. I'd always refer to the manual to be sure.

[kmrcstintn]

I looked in my owner's manual several times for my Rattler...NO specific recommendation for octane...

I started out with premium when I also owned a Vespa that REQUIRED high octane; the Vespa was traded on a Buell motorcycle and I have used 89 octane since

[Raiderfn311]

Is the general consensus that 87 octane is the most optimal gas for the Buddy 125?

This is a contentious debate. I have better results with 92-93. Thats just me. As my uncle Olaf used to say, "Don't piss down my back and say it's raining."

[BlueMark]

Octane is measured differently in other countries (Taiwan), Our regular octane (87) fuel is considered higher octane there - 92 or 93, depending ... what octane you need is determined by the compression of your motor. User manuals don't necessarily make the distinction between US and foreign octane ratings.

All Genuine scooters have low compression engines and use what in America is called regular (87) octane gasoline. How much you weigh, how stupidly you ride, how bad your lead foot is - don't affect your engine compression. You don't need higher octane fuel in your Genuine scooter.

But ...

Plenty of people have reported that their engines seem to run better on higher octane fuel - particularly Blur 220i owners. That may not be real, but it doesn't really hurt the engine to run more expensive higher octane fuel (it may lower your gas mileage and possibly cost you a little power), so what the heck. If it feels good, go for it.

[Ethan Allison]

Regular and medium grade gas often is 10% ethanol (or E10). Unless you know your gas is ethanol-free make sure to use premium.

[kmrcstintn]

Regular and medium grade gas often is 10% ethanol (or E10). Unless you know your gas is ethanol-free make sure to use premium.

reading this had me thinking...

the 2-stroke engines in the Roughhouse, Rattler, and 2T Stellas basically burn their lubricating oil during the ignition stroke of the engine operating cycle;

if we use higher octane gasoline which burns hotter, should we use higher quality synthetic 2T oils to resist excess carbonization & fouling of the ports, spark plug, and exhaust pipe since the oils burn cleaner???

will the forced air cooling be enough to prevent hot spots in the engine???

just a few thoughts to ponder...

[Raiderfn311]

Regular and medium grade gas often is 10% ethanol (or E10). Unless you know your gas is ethanol-free make sure to use premium.

reading this had me thinking...

the 2-stroke engines in the Roughhouse, Rattler, and 2T Stellas basically burn their lubricating oil during the ignition stroke of the engine operating cycle;

if we use higher octane gasoline which burns hotter, should we use higher quality synthetic 2T oils to resist excess carbonization & fouling of the ports, spark plug, and exhaust pipe since the oils burn cleaner???

will the forced air cooling be enough to prevent hot spots in the engine???

just a few thoughts to ponder...

I would say the better the 2t oil the better. I used motul 710(synthetic)when I ran a 50cc 2t. Your thinking would seem to be right on this.

[LunaP]

Regular and medium grade gas often is 10% ethanol (or E10). Unless you know your gas is ethanol-free make sure to use premium.

And premium isn't?? I thought ALL gas, except at select ethanol-free stations, had 10% ethanol.

Regardless... I usually go to get gas when my needle hits the top of the red part of my gauge. I usually fill it back up to the tune of .9something, and had gotten 80-90miles on it. I use premium just because... it costs me on average 4 cents a mile to use premium. Why not? (Yes, I did the math, and yes I tell my cager friends this when I get the chance )

As for filling technique... I can usually easily see into the tank, but also have a little LED light on my keyring to help with that ($1, Dollar Tree!). It really helps that I am very consistent about what point I fill up... I know when it hits .8something I should slow the pump and start checking it because it's getting close.

However, every two weeks or so, I damn near drain the tank completely on purpose, and I've done that since I got her... it's an effort to prevent my scoot from becoming a vehicle where the bottom bit of the tank is super old and filled with sediment and sludge (like in almost everybody's car!) and shouldn't be burned through. I don't feel like the tank on a scooter is big enough that one can afford to let that happen to it- so I don't intend to. When I drain it completely, I think I end up filling up to about 1.3 or maybe closer to 1.4

[Raiderfn311]

Hell yeah Luna!!!! Take a stand!!!!

[rkcoker]

Did anyone ever answer the original question on what the gas tank capacity is? I think I've re-read this thread about three times and haven't seen an answer.
My Buddy takes about .8 gallons when the gage shows empty. I seem to remember from somewhere that it holds 1.9 gallons but now I can't find it.

[Raiderfn311]

Did anyone ever answer the original question on what the gas tank capacity is? I think I've re-read this thread about three times and haven't seen an answer.
My Buddy takes about .8 gallons when the gage shows empty. I seem to remember from somewhere that it holds 1.9 gallons but now I can't find it.

Little less than a gallon. Garanteed.

[Skootz Kabootz]

The Buddy's gas tank capacity is 1.7 gal. Generally fillups will be more like 1.4 - 1.5 gal unless you really run it bone dry. On my Buddy for example, once the needle is resting on empty I have about 20 - 25 miles of gas left before I totally run outl. So you won't ever put 1.7 gal of gas in it. Plus we all know to leave an inch to spare when filling up, right?

[jmazza]

Did anyone ever answer the original question on what the gas tank capacity is? I think I've re-read this thread about three times and haven't seen an answer.
My Buddy takes about .8 gallons when the gage shows empty. I seem to remember from somewhere that it holds 1.9 gallons but now I can't find it.

Little less than a gallon. Garanteed.

The first few posts (minus the octane question) answered it as best as it's ever been answered here. I believe the official spec is 1.6 or 1.7 but no one has ever put that much in so it's possible this number includes the entire fuel system and not just the tank. Many here have gotten 1.3 or 1.4 gallons in there (including me).

[Raiderfn311]

Did anyone ever answer the original question on what the gas tank capacity is? I think I've re-read this thread about three times and haven't seen an answer.
My Buddy takes about .8 gallons when the gage shows empty. I seem to remember from somewhere that it holds 1.9 gallons but now I can't find it.

Little less than a gallon. Garanteed.

The first few posts (minus the octane question) answered it as best as it's ever been answered here. I believe the official spec is 1.6 or 1.7 but no one has ever put that much in so it's possible this number includes the entire fuel system and not just the tank. Many here have gotten 1.3 or 1.4 gallons in there (including me).

I don't let it run too low.

[Lokky]

Regular and medium grade gas often is 10% ethanol (or E10). Unless you know your gas is ethanol-free make sure to use premium.

reading this had me thinking...

the 2-stroke engines in the Roughhouse, Rattler, and 2T Stellas basically burn their lubricating oil during the ignition stroke of the engine operating cycle;

if we use higher octane gasoline which burns hotter, should we use higher quality synthetic 2T oils to resist excess carbonization & fouling of the ports, spark plug, and exhaust pipe since the oils burn cleaner???

will the forced air cooling be enough to prevent hot spots in the engine???

just a few thoughts to ponder...

I would say the better the 2t oil the better. I used motul 710(synthetic)when I ran a 50cc 2t. Your thinking would seem to be right on this.

I swear religiously on motul 710 myself, and use premium.

[Raiderfn311]

reading this had me thinking...

the 2-stroke engines in the Roughhouse, Rattler, and 2T Stellas basically burn their lubricating oil during the ignition stroke of the engine operating cycle;

if we use higher octane gasoline which burns hotter, should we use higher quality synthetic 2T oils to resist excess carbonization & fouling of the ports, spark plug, and exhaust pipe since the oils burn cleaner???

will the forced air cooling be enough to prevent hot spots in the engine???

just a few thoughts to ponder...

I would say the better the 2t oil the better. I used motul 710(synthetic)when I ran a 50cc 2t. Your thinking would seem to be right on this.

I swear religiously on motul 710 myself, and use premium.

Lokky Happy New Year to you. I use premium and Startron.

[Greywolf]

According to the manual it takes 1.66 g but you will always not be able to put in that much. The 170i only holds 1.5 gallons. Also the 170i according to the sticker in the underseat storage requires 91(R+M)/2 octane.

[jprestonian]

RM/2 method whatever that is :?

It's actually (R + M) / 2, which is the sum of RON + MON divided by 2. Also known as AKI, or "anti-knock index."

[/math pedant] ;)
.

[Sweet-Pete]

I had never run out of gas before I bought my buddy. Now I've run out 3 times. The last time it happened I thought my legs were going to burn off from pushing that thing a half mile up hill. I would have been embarrassed if it didn't happen so often. Got to the gas station and filled the tank to the brim with 1.4 gallons. Theres always a bit of fuel that can't be picked up completely. I always use regular 87 because there is just no sense in using fuel made for a higher compression engine. I'm not sure if the buddy has a catalytic converter, but I was told that using high octane fuel in a low compression engine will cause the unburnt fuel to foul up the catalytic converter.

[TVB]

The small fuel tank does mean keeping a closer eye on the fuel gauge than with a car. Either that or get one of those metallic fuel bottles, fill it with gas, and keep that in the glove bucket or pet carrier.

[iMoses]

I have a 2007 Buddy 125 with almost 9k and I've never used anything but the cheap gas (87 octane). I've never had a fuel related issue (knock on wood-taps forehead), the only problem I ever had was my stator went bad at about 4k.

I usually put about 1.4 gallons per fill up.

[mamboman777]

Here is a picture I took under the seat of my Buddy 125. Unless "92 or higher" means something different in Taiwan I will be using 93 octane in my Bud.

[Skootz Kabootz]

Personally, I have never used anything but 87 el cheapo in my scooter. The engine in low enough compression that a higher octane will essentially make no difference.

Here is a picture I took under the seat of my Buddy 125. Unless "92 or higher" means something different in Taiwan I will be using 93 octane in my Bud.

Octane ratings are indeed different in different countries. So you night want to check on Taiwan.

[Chilly]

Here is a picture I took under the seat of my Buddy 125. Unless "92 or higher" means something different in Taiwan I will be using 93 octane in my Bud.

92 in Taiwan does mean something different about 87-88 in the usa I believe,

[mamboman777]

Or higher means the same thing here as there. They must not think there's harm in higher octane...

[ScootLemont]

IHere is our "real world" application data:

In 1999 the Ohio Department of Agriculture conducted a test of 1000 gas stations. 85% Of these stations were pumping non-premium octane fuel from their premium pumps. Audits of these stations were conducted and it was seen as a regular practice for stations to have "Regular" account for approximately 82% of their monthly sales. Yet it accounted for over 95% of the fuel they ordered from their supplier. Unless they were giving away thousands of gallons of 87 Octane fuel, it was quite obvious they were selling the 87 out of the higher octane pumps.

Yes... I am replying to a post from 2007....
I agree with EVERYTHING Phil says about not using high obtain in scooters.
But I do feel the need to sort our his real world data-
Many (dont know what percentage) gas station have two tanks - one for 87 & one for 92 (or 93) - the pumps then blend from the two tanks to get mid grade 89
so thats why the ohio number "appear" to be "off"

Regardless - I only run 87 in my scooter, snowmobiles, ATVs, etc
These are low compression engines.

[skully93]

Phil's PSA is right.

Usually there is an epa sticker in the pet carrier that will tell you what to use. Mine says 87. My bigger bikes both require 91. I've run experiments with the buddy before, and the higher octane is horrible for the buddy, and gets worse mileage. The kymco sputters and idles all weird if I put anything less than 91 in it, and on the rare occasion I can find 93, it loves life.

The 'quality' badge has been a myth of our own creation. "regular, plus, and premium'. this is to make you feel GOOD about putting more expensive gas into the machine. If 91 octane was better for it, I'd think nothing of adding the extra 25cents .

[PeteH]

My 150 didn't like 'premium' either. Quite a bit lower fuel economy - i ran it for 5 tanks over my usual summer commute last year.

[iMoses]

There still seems to be quite a range of what octane people put in. When I bought my scoot, I was told to put in premium. Maybe 89 would be better. Although I haven't had any problems with my scoot yet.

As far as I know, no one has had any problems running 87 in their Buddys.

87 Octane is all I have ever run on my 2007 125cc Buddy. I've never had any issues related to fuel. Only issue I've ever had (knock on wood-taps on forehead) was a stator. It got fixed under the warranty