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Smell of smoke coming from Buddy 125, especially on hills

 
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phenomenalworld
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:54 pm    Post subject: Smell of smoke coming from Buddy 125, especially on hills Reply with quote

I have a 2012 Buddy 125. I made several short runs with it a couple weeks ago carrying a helluva lot of gravel - under the seat, between my legs, in a backpack, and on the back milk crate basket. Yes, it was a stupid move. I thought it would be okay as I've certainly carried big loads before. And I thought I got away with it. However, since then, I have noticed the smell of smoke when riding at times - particularly when going up some steep hills. I reckon I need to take it to the shop but I was just wondering if anybody might offer any kind of speculation as to what is wrong and what might need fixing and what kind of price might be involved. Or maybe there's some thing I can do/test on my own first? It's a bummer because funds are low and also me and the scooter are tight and I hate to think I hurt her in any way.

Also anyone reading who responded to my last post about valve adjustment few months back, sorry f I dropped the ball a bit in the last of the thread but I was told by a local mechanic there's no need to even bother with it unless the scoot shows signs any signs/symptoms of any concern related to the valve...
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charlie55
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's narrow it down first.....

What kind of smoky smell: burning oil, partially burned fuel, hot rubber?

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phenomenalworld
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really wish I could answer that for you but my sniffer is not much expertly honed regarding these matters. Can definitely say it's not burning rubber. And definitely does not harken to the smell of regular ol' gasoline. I don't know what burning oil smells like. Best I can say is that it's like a black ugly smell. Like tar on fire. Not that it's particular pungent whiff-wise, but what my nose picks up is just a kind of general sense of burnt or burning. I visualize black smoke when I smell it, but I don't see smoke (can't see anything back there when I'm riding).
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charlie55
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you don't see any smoke, especially blue smoke, then it's not likely you're burning oil. To be sure, pull the spark plug and see if there's any oil buildup on it. Also check your oil level.

Overheated rubber can smell a lot like burning tar. Check your tire pressure because underinflated tires run hot.

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Stanza
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are routinely carrying heavy loads, you may be dealing with a worn out belt/clutch. This would smell pretty darned bad....like a thick burning chemically smell. How many miles do you have on the bike at this point?
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phenomenalworld
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see smoke, I just smell something which smells like smoke. And again, it's not particularly a strong smell, but undoubtedly there. I just refilled my tires (the back was pretty low - 26), but the smell is still there. "Check oil level" - check. Just changed oil/filter last week.

There are 6200 miles on the bike. I am not routinely carrying heavy loads, but over the year I've owned it, have certainly carried my share of heavy things. "A worn out belt/clutch" may be a possibility because the smell came directly after I carried a rather obscenely large/heavy load. So the idea that I "wore out" something which is then creates some kind of burning effect seems reasonable. What does it cost, roughly, to replace belt/clutch?

I just went to check the spark plug, which I've never dealt with before. I followed a tutorial on this site but got absolutely lost after unscrewing that bottom center piece under/in front of the seat. Can't find anything resembling a spark plug - can any of you (see photo)? Would rather not bother with it unless you truly think it could be the culprit.

Thanks much for your help so far, guys.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Circled in red is the sparkplug cap. I don't think carrying a heavy load has anything to do with the smell. If that were so then a lot of Buddy's would be smelly by now since many of us have carried passengers, some of them being of the extra large size, not to mention the operator him/herself.
Try spraying some engine degreaser on and around the engine (including the exhaust system, but NOT inside the muffler) and washing it down with plenty of water. After giving everything enough time to dry out ride around for awhile to see if the smell is still there.

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phenomenalworld
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome, thanks much for the illustrative education, babblefish! I will have to get my nose up close tomorrow to it to figure how that cap operates. If I understand correctly, seems I can't even take the old plug out for inspection without first acquiring a gap gauge?

"I don't think carrying a heavy load has anything to do with the smell". One important detail I should've mentioned is that the smell started occurring at the end of that crazy run with the gravel. So truly seemed like direct consequence but if you're offering a study of two truly jumbo size hombres riding a Buddy 125 without consequence for comparison to my scene (180 lbs of human flesh/bones + helluva lot of gravel), maybe I'd have to rethink and err on the side of coincidence. Would be glad if it wasn't the weight that created the issue.

I will give it some engine degreaser and see if that cheers up the situation.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At 6k miles you're about due for a new belt no matter what.

Without smell I would guess the belt is slipping. It may be hard to notice a lack of power from it slipping if carrying a heavy load. Also...time flies! If it's the OEM belt it's also 7 year old rubber and may have also deteriorated due to age and wear to the point that it's slipping some.

Belt changes are a routine maintenance item. If you're not going to do it yourself you can call the shop and ask for a price. It's a standard service for them so a decent shop should have it priced without the "not sure how long it will take etc etc."

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babblefish
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BuddyRaton makes a very good point about the CVT belt. Carrying heavy loads would most certainly affect the belt. I had forgotten about that (shows how much attention I pay to mine 😟). If it starts to slip and over heat that would most definitely create a burning smell. Yours is probably long due for replacement along with the rollers in the variator. Both are normal wear items. Worn out rollers (they will become flat spotted) will affect acceleration and top speed. If left for too long they can cause uneven variator action which would most definitely lead to belt slippage.
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charlie55
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phenomenalworld wrote:
Awesome, thanks much for the illustrative education, babblefish! I will have to get my nose up close tomorrow to it to figure how that cap operates. If I understand correctly, seems I can't even take the old plug out for inspection without first acquiring a gap gauge?

"I don't think carrying a heavy load has anything to do with the smell". One important detail I should've mentioned is that the smell started occurring at the end of that crazy run with the gravel. So truly seemed like direct consequence but if you're offering a study of two truly jumbo size hombres riding a Buddy 125 without consequence for comparison to my scene (180 lbs of human flesh/bones + helluva lot of gravel), maybe I'd have to rethink and err on the side of coincidence. Would be glad if it wasn't the weight that created the issue.

I will give it some engine degreaser and see if that cheers up the situation.


From what the others have advised, I think you can skip the plug check as their analysis coupled with the lack of smoke pretty much rules out burning oil. For future reference, you don't need a feeler gauge unless you think you need to re-gap the plug. For the purpose of checking for oil, you merely disconnect thr spark plug cap, then unscrew the plug and check it visually to see if it's coated with oil.

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phenomenalworld
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now it looks like this investigation/query is picking up speed and possibly honing in on the target. Appreciate all the inputs. So, y'all would agree w/ BuddyRaton a new belt is due after 6k miles? I hardly understand the concept of a belt but intuit it true nonetheless, especially with what context your inputs have provided. Approx how much does a belt cost, how easy is it to change, and roughly what would I expect to pay for labor for a shop to do it? And what about the "rollers in the variator"?

Glad to hear I can skip the plug check...!
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought a new OEM belt off eBay from a seller in Taiwan for about $15 +shipping several months ago. New rollers vary in price anywhere from $10 to $25 a set. The stock roller size for a Buddy 125 is 18x14 and 11g. Both of these items can be bought from any Genuine Scooter parts dealer such as Scooterlounge online, Scooter Dynasty, various sellers on Amazon and eBay, and of course, your local Genuine dealer. I can almost guarantee that your rollers are toast and will have to be replaced so plan on it while the belt is being replaced.

Belt: https://www.ebay.com/p/Bando-CVT-Belt-for-Genuine-Scooter-Buddy-125-150-170/3004123894?iid=233050956581
I have no affiliation with this seller but have bought many parts from him without issue.

Rollers: https://www.ebay.com/itm/GY6125-150-180-ROLLERS-WEIGHT-FOR-VARIATOR-SIZE-18X14-11g-KOSO/293066764487?epid=17011508351&hash=item443c23f0c7:g:ZEwAAOSwdW9aNFP3
This is an example of whats available. This particular brand, KOSO, if it's not counterfeit, is a good brand.

No offense, but you don't sound like a mechanically inclined person so I suggest taking your Buddy to a good mechanic to get the work done as the transmission can be a bit fiddly if you don't know what you're doing and/or lack the right tools.

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phenomenalworld
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

babble, you are a treasure of information and ebay links (!). i love a good ebay deal as much if not much more than others. thank you! and glad to see the parts are relatively cheap in any case.

i might be significantly more mechanically inclined than i come off. have taken off every outer part of this bike and custom painted it, changed oil, filters, some other minor doodads. what are the "right tools"? is it truly an advanced surgery? what do you expect it to cost for a mechanic's labor...roughly?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Search the technical library in this website for information on changing the belt and rollers. There is one for changing "sliders" which is basically the same as rollers.
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phenomenalworld
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent. Will do. Thanks again!
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phenomenalworld
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

....

Last edited by phenomenalworld on Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ucandoit
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Concerning replacing the belt. I've got 9500 miles on my 2008 Buddy 125. I weigh 125 lbs and do not carry passengers. Have done all the routine maintenance, including inspecting the cvt belt, which looked okay, no fraying and I measured it's thickness which if I recall was in the okay zone. The scooter accelerates fine so I'm thinking the rollers are good.
There seems to be such a variance in when to replace the belt. Some do it at 6000 miles, others go to 16,000 or more. If I'm having no problems and the belt inspection looks good, would it really just suddenly break apart? Does the rubber decay in such a way that it is not visible and would give no indication, like fraying? Each year I tell myself, "I'll change the belt and rollers next summer". I've studied the procedure to do that, but I'm avoiding it. Also, if it breaks while I'm riding, would that do any damage to the scooter?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It can wear thinner and thinner and not look terribly frayed, at which point you can experience belt slippage (and burning). If the belt breaks, it can absolutely do damage to the cvt components. It can wrap around a pulley and fracture the weld, bent a ramp plate, or it can break and do no damage whatsoever. Completely luck of the draw on that one. Given that it's a fairly inexpensive peace-of-mind repair, I'd say just replace it.
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phenomenalworld
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting, ucandoit. Last night I had gone to read up in the technical library about changing belt/rollers, and came across other people as well who hadn't changed them in....a long time...if ever, like you. As Stanza, points out, not too much cost involved ($35 total for parts on ebay), and hopefully it's the source of the burning I smell, so I'm gonna give it a go...
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also smell smoke sometimes when I'm riding my 125.

Sometimes it smells like pizza. Sometimes it smells like BBQ. Sometimes it smells like steak. Sometimes it smells like diesel. I can't figure out what's wrong.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

k1dude wrote:
I also smell smoke sometimes when I'm riding my 125.

Sometimes it smells like pizza. Sometimes it smells like BBQ. Sometimes it smells like steak. Sometimes it smells like diesel. I can't figure out what's wrong.


I usually smell spoiled milk...

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

phenomenalworld wrote:
Interesting, ucandoit. Last night I had gone to read up in the technical library about changing belt/rollers, and came across other people as well who hadn't changed them in....a long time...if ever, like you. As Stanza, points out, not too much cost involved ($35 total for parts on ebay), and hopefully it's the source of the burning I smell, so I'm gonna give it a go...


A rubber belt will sometimes look perfectly fine but if bent sharply you will see cracks. The environment that the belt lives in is hot and dry so the rubber will over time dry out. Better safe than sorry and like you say, not overly expensive to replace.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

k1dude wrote:
I also smell smoke sometimes when I'm riding my 125.

Sometimes it smells like pizza. Sometimes it smells like BBQ. Sometimes it smells like steak. Sometimes it smells like diesel. I can't figure out what's wrong.


Could be your breath inside your helmet. What did you have for dinner?
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ucandoit
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Babblefish: Since my Buddy has 9,500 miles I think I will go ahead and replace the belt and rollers. Isn't it important to also replace the little guides in the variator? Do those come with the rollers? I want to stick with stock everything. Is it much more expensive to just replace the entire variator or is that over-kill
Would I need to do anything at all with the clutch? Am not eager to take it apart. Also, I do not want to buy an impact wrench so plan on making a homemade tool to get the variator nut off. Thanks for your help.[/url]
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Stanza
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rollers, belt, and sliders are all sold separately. I'd do all three, and don't worry about the metal portions of the variator. As for the clutch, you don't need to take it apart fully to do a visual inspection of the clutch pads. You can loosen it with the same 14mm socket as you use on the front variator to take the clutch bell off. Once that's off, just eyeball the clutch pads to see if they are super shiny and smooth. If so, rough them up with some 60 grit sandpaper to give them some traction again.
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babblefish
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ucandoit wrote:
Babblefish: Since my Buddy has 9,500 miles I think I will go ahead and replace the belt and rollers. Isn't it important to also replace the little guides in the variator? Do those come with the rollers? I want to stick with stock everything. Is it much more expensive to just replace the entire variator or is that over-kill
Would I need to do anything at all with the clutch? Am not eager to take it apart. Also, I do not want to buy an impact wrench so plan on making a homemade tool to get the variator nut off. Thanks for your help.[/url]


The guides generally don't wear very much. Some roller sets come with new guides but some do not. I've replaced rollers/sliders without replacing the guides but YMMV. Just take a look at the guides to see if they look worn out or misshapen. No need to replace the entire variator unless there's visible evidence of wear or metal-to-metal contact. I've personally never HAD to replace a variator. I changed to a Dr. Pulley variator on my Blur only because I believed the hype and had money in my pocket, lol.
As for the clutch, they generally last quite a long while unless abused. I wouldn't worry about it unless it starts slipping excessively when taking off from a dead stop or when packing a passenger.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Babblefish and Stanza for the information. I appreciate your help.
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phenomenalworld
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stanza, you wrote “Rollers, belt, and sliders are all sold separately. I'd do all three”. I got the rollers and belt in the mail today as per babblefish’s recommendation (belt happily shipped from N jersey not Taiwan). Now reading over this thread and wondering about sliders. Do people agree they should be replaced by 6k miles and if so, can anyone point me towards an online deal for my Buddy 125? Reading through the technical library on these matters, I’m having a hard time distinguishing a slider compared to a roller, as products as sometimes people seem to use the terms interchangeably or at least refer to “sliding roller weights” (are these rollers or sliders?). Also, would people concur with one member (rajron) who said the replacement of these three part should take 45 minutes, and, for anyone that's done it, is it a pretty straightforward no-frills operation? I would love to do it myself for the money-saving and education, but at the same time, have injured shoulder pain lately and can't devote too much time/labor/stress to the mission.
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babblefish
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is where nomenclature can get confusing for some people.

Rollers and sliders do the same thing but work a little differently. In general, rollers are what usually come stock in most scooters. Sliders are what Dr. Pulley uses in their aftermarket performance variators. In theory sliders should last longer than rollers because they have more surface area to spread the load when they're working.
As their names imply, rollers roll when working while sliders slide. In actual use, rollers do both which is why they wear unevenly with flat spots.

To make things even more confusing, the little plastic pieces that guide the movable plate in a variator are also sometimes called sliders though their function is completely different from rollers and those other sliders. I prefer to call them "roller guides".

Are we more confused yet?

Changing the belt and rollers is not that physically demanding as there is no heavy lifting involved. The hardest part is getting the one nut off that holds the variator together. When you try to loosen that nut, the engine crank wants to turn too. Some people jam a screwdriver or something else into the cooling fins of the variator to stop it from turning but I don't recommend doing that as it's too easy to break one or more of the fins off which besides reducing cooling for the variator will throw the balance off. You can try using one of those strap type wrenches to keep the variator from turning. Personally, I use an electric impact wrench which loosens the nut so fast that the crank has no time to react.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks a lot for the cautioning or highlighting of the hard nut on the variator. And that's a good deal of education which uncoils and clarifies the confusion I had around the terms. Although I'm still left wondering if "roller guides" then is indeed the third item I should replace (as suggested by Stanza), and if it is, if indeed it is truly important to replace (or makes good sense to do so out of convenience as long as I'm "getting under the hood" anyhow to replace the belt and rollers). And if so, any suggestions for a brand/deal to buy?
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ucandoit
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Babblefish: The cvt belt from ebay that you suggested is not quite the same size as the original Buddy 125 belt. The original on my Buddy 125 is a Bando 743x20x28. (Not a 743x20x30). The original size belts are sold by scooterlounge and dealers for $48, which is nearly double the price as the one on ebay. I was told the 3rd number on the belt has to do with the angle of the bevel. Not sure if that is true.
Do you feel comfortable installing the cheaper ebay belt? I know it says it fits Genuine Buddy's, but I'm concerned that it is not an exact match in size to the original.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ucandoit wrote:
Babblefish: The cvt belt from ebay that you suggested is not quite the same size as the original Buddy 125 belt. The original on my Buddy 125 is a Bando 743x20x28. (Not a 743x20x30). The original size belts are sold by scooterlounge and dealers for $48, which is nearly double the price as the one on ebay. I was told the 3rd number on the belt has to do with the angle of the bevel. Not sure if that is true.
Do you feel comfortable installing the cheaper ebay belt? I know it says it fits Genuine Buddy's, but I'm concerned that it is not an exact match in size to the original.


My Buddy 125 had the original belt and rollers at 11,800 miles. The original belt is branded both Bando and PGO and was 743 20 28 as you noted. I was surprised to measure the belt width was as new even after all of those miles but I replaced it with a Gates PL20707 belt from Amazon which was <$13. I'll keep the original as a spare.
The Gates belt is marked as 743 20 30, looks identical to the original and works without apparent issues. There is one Amazon reviewer who also indicated he used on a Buddy 125 and had 500 miles on the belt without problems. My stock rollers were slightly flatted so I replaced them with some 12g Glixal brand rollers. Time will tell if they are durable or not but I'm not worried.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Babble,
What you call roller guides are the "slides" not sliders. As you say, sliders are what Dr. Pulley sells. There will be less confusion if everyone refers to them by the same name as the factory.

http://www.scooterloungeonline.com/buddy50drivingpulley

The service manual refers to the "slide driving plate set" not the slider driving plate set.
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2012 Buddy 125

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey. I’m still hoping to get answer here on two bits by now that are keeping me and my scooter from fully finding ourselves on the streets, as the scoot is still smoking or smelling. Hoping to find out if I need to buy/replace sliders aka roller guides in addition to rollers and belt. And then, additionally, I’m newly concerned regarding the issue ucandoit raised around this belt I bought on eBay and whether it’s the right size. PNWbuddy, you mention a Gates belt of similar measurement that works fine, so should I assume the Bando belt I bought from ebay will work just as fine? Would hate to have hands dirty, head under the "hood", everything unscrewed, replacing a belt for the first time only to discover it's not the right size (and now not returnable/resellable). Any further input would be much appreciated. Thanks.
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PNWbuddy
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Joined: 02 May 2019
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Buddy125

PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scooterworks lists the 743 20 30 belt as a replacement on the Buddy scooters, from their web site: "GATES BELT (743X20X30, OEM); GENUINE BUDDY 125/150/170I"

The Bando belt that Babblefish listed is also 743 20 30.

743 stands for the outer diameter of the belt in mm
20 is the width of the belt at the thickest part in mm
30 stands for the cross sectional taper of the belt in degrees
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ucandoit
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Joined: 24 Sep 2014
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Location: Minnesota
2008 buddy 125

PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phenom: I, too, am about to replace my belt and rollers for the first time. I think we'll both do fine. I emailed Genuine about using a 743-20-30 belt. They said: "That size belt should be fine, though there is a small chance that you will experience premature belt slippage with the size discrepancy. This is unconfirmed, though, and it’s possible that this will operate normally."
Nothing seems guaranteed, does it. I guess if I had that belt I would use it.
The original size belt is twice the price. The 3 little roller guides cost a total of $3, but if yours look fine, then I would reuse them.
There is a very good video on scooter transmissions on youtube called:
Scooter CVT Transmission: Full Service Inspection
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EjW-iSP-Q8.
He is not working on a Buddy but he is very thorough. There will be differences between scooters.
I suggest you print out a copy of the parts diagram of the Buddy transmission. This is available in the reference section on this site. Scroll down to manual, parts, etc.
Also, you will NOT need to remove the kickstarter on the Buddy.
If you're using an impact driver to remove and reinstall the variator nut I would find out how they torque that nut when putting it back on. I think it's important not to get it too tight. I don't have an impact driver so plan to make a homemade tool to get that nut off. I'm hoping I don't break off any fins of the variator. There's always something to make these jobs exciting, isn't there. lol.
Good luck. It's a learning process and I think we'll be able to get this done right. I'm just hoping that this will indeed solve your problem with the smell.
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Stanza
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Location: Chicago
Puch Maxi, Honda C70

PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What does that third measurement mean anyway? I'm trying to figure out the dimensions based on google searching, but does the 30 vs 28 mean that it's a different pitch, or that it's slightly thicker?
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charlie55
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'06 Blur (Sold) '05 Honda Helix (Sold) '76 CB125S (Sold) '06 Honda Helix

PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stanza wrote:
What does that third measurement mean anyway? I'm trying to figure out the dimensions based on google searching, but does the 30 vs 28 mean that it's a different pitch, or that it's slightly thicker?


It's the angle of wedge formed by the sides of the belt (the surfaces that contact the pulleys). BTW, exercise extreme caution with EBay belts. A great many of them are counterfeit. If the EBay price is ridiculously low, run away.

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phenomenalworld
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Joined: 27 Jul 2018
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Location: Los Angeles, United States
2012 Buddy 125

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ucandoit: i like your Poz Mental Attitude on the subject. And great to have your Genuine correspondence quoted in the affirmative. And you provided other goodies too! As of this writing, a shoulder injury/pain has worsened, and have a bad cold to boot. Might have to forgo self-servicing the replacement parts and take 'em to a mechanic instead. Will see how the week plays out - need to nip the smoke smell in the bud pronto. If perchance you initiate/complete the same labour on your own bike in the next week, would be great to get a report - even just a couple sentences - of how it went: how easy, any snags, time taken, etc. Good luck with it!
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babblefish
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Location: San Francisco
2006 Blur 180, 2008 Buddy St. Tropez

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ucandoit wrote:
Babblefish: The cvt belt from ebay that you suggested is not quite the same size as the original Buddy 125 belt. The original on my Buddy 125 is a Bando 743x20x28. (Not a 743x20x30). The original size belts are sold by scooterlounge and dealers for $48, which is nearly double the price as the one on ebay. I was told the 3rd number on the belt has to do with the angle of the bevel. Not sure if that is true.
Do you feel comfortable installing the cheaper ebay belt? I know it says it fits Genuine Buddy's, but I'm concerned that it is not an exact match in size to the original.


As others have said, the "30" is just a slightly different contact angle and will not make any difference in use.
The Bando belt that I bought from autotech355 is a genuine Bando who is the OEM for PGO. It looks like he is stocking the newest generation belt from Bando which is suppose to be better but is a couple of dollars more expensive.
I've spent several hundred dollars with autotech355 and have never had any issues with quality or otherwise. He responds to emails and is quite helpful if you have questions. He also dislikes cheap fakes from China and tries to source his parts from either Taiwan or Japan though he will stock some China made products if they are good quality.

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ucandoit
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Joined: 24 Sep 2014
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2008 buddy 125

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Babble: Thanks for responding about this concern. Being a novice I tend to stick to stock everything as I just don't have the experience to confidently choose otherwise. I probably would not know a cheap knock-off from the original.
Phenom: It will take me a while to make the tool to remove the variator nut and get this project done. I'm pretty slow, but will let you know how it goes. I was surprised that the dealer scooter shop wanted only $70 for labor to replace the belt and rollers. I'm just far away from the shop and I want to learn how to do it. Let us know if the smoke/smell problem clears up. I hope so. This was the first time I contacted Genuine, so it doesn't hurt to simply email them for suggestions/opinions about issues.
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phenomenalworld
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Location: Los Angeles, United States
2012 Buddy 125

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

babble: Thank for the input and assurance that this Bando belt will do the job. Ass mentioned, on ebay it lists as being from Taiwan, taking approx 1.5 months to arrive, but it shipped from NJ and got it in 4 days.

ucandoit: Glad to hear a quote of $70. That's doable, tho' wish I could learn and do it myself and save the cost, but for injured shoulder. Will indeed let you know if the smoke clears.

And good to know Genuine has got their customer service in good swing.
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phenomenalworld
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Location: Los Angeles, United States
2012 Buddy 125

PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the follow-up report I promised. I found a mechanic on craigslist who agreed on $60 to replace the belt and rollers. He pulled out the old belt, and it looked practically identical to the new belt (woulda thunk it was brand new if I didn't know it had 6000 miles on it - it was the same Bando brand by chance), except that readers of this thread will recall that a link to a good ebay deal on the belt was provided (which I purchased), and later pointed out that this ebay Bando belt was a size 743x20x30, whereas the original is a size 743x20x28. He showed me the rollers, saying they were pretty well-worn, and there was a fair amount of gunk around them which he meticulously cleaned out. He said the roller situation could definitely be responsible for the smoke/smell. Then he reassembled everything and I started the motor. I immediately noticed that just the sound - the purr of the engine - felt a bit smoother, which I was happy about. This was confirmed when I took it for a drive. I might've not mentioned it here, but along with the smoke/smell that developed right after I hauled a huge amount of gravel on the bike, it was also running....rougher...like, the engine felt like...it was working harder, could feel and hear it, subtle but real. Now it was back to a softer, gentler purr and so far I haven't detected any smoke/smell. However, there's some bad news too. After the repair, the scoot's acceleration was very noticeably...lacking. I have to turn the throttle much further to get the same amount of ooomph as before (which unfortunately is not good for mentioned shoulder injury). I haven't yet taken it on the highway to know if this perchance affects the actual top speed. But it is definitely an inconvenience. The mechanic was sure that this was because of the difference in the belt size (thirty vs twenty eight). It makes for more slack, is my understanding. However maybe there is another reason for the slack-sense, simply related to having a fresh, new belt and rollers installed. Hopefully I will get used to this, as I'd prefer to not buy another belt and pay for labor again on the whole affair. All told, it was all of you who helped me to identify the problem and the remedy, and I'm really grateful and glad to have the scoot running smooth again for sure! Thanks everyone!
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babblefish
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2006 Blur 180, 2008 Buddy St. Tropez

PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're probably just used to the way the engine and variator responds with lighter rollers. When rollers wear they get lighter which means it takes more engine RPM to get going. Those higher RPMs mean the engine is deeper into it's power band which in turn feels like more get up and go from a dead stop. On the other hand, heavier rollers will cause the variator to want to ramp up sooner which means the scooter will try to start moving at a lower engine RPM, hence the feeling of less get up and go. So why not just start out with lighter rollers in the first place? Lighter rollers will cause the scooter to take longer to reach upper range speed (MPH). So take your choice, gain bottom end to lose some top or sacrifice some low speed acceleration to get to your top end sooner.
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phenomenalworld
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2012 Buddy 125

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so here's a final follow up to this story/thread. after getting the belt and rollers installed, i thought the burning smell has ceased, but then it would appear now & then. was i imagining things? finally i had to conclude that no, the problem persisted, and the belt/roller switcharoo was totally ineffective. i took the scoot to scooter dynasty here in LA. they were swamped with work that day, but after telling the knowledgable desk guy the issue, and what i tried to do to resolve it, he said "no, man, the belt and rollers wouldn't be making a smell. it's something to do with the engine. i would first check to see if there's any oil spilled on the engine. also you don't need to change belt rollers until at least 8000 miles and more like 12000". so i went home and did as he said. sure as shit, there was dried oil guck in a few big patches right on the engine. i wiped them up, and the burning smell is gone. one problem in my life finally cleared up, and at least i didn't pay them $85 to "diagnose", but instead got the free tip because they were too busy.

the end.


Last edited by phenomenalworld on Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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ucandoit
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2008 buddy 125

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, the problem all along was a simple splotch of oil on the engine, which would of course burn and smell as the engine heated up. Didn't cost a nickel to clean it up. (Although I'm wondering how oil got on the engine.)
Am guessing you were worried the burning/smell problem was caused by something serious because you had been hauling heavy gravel. The gravel was a "red herring". lol.
The good news is that you have new rollers, and a belt.
I finally bought a new belt and rollers. Am reviewing the process; am most concerned about getting the variator nut off. I will buy a band type rubber wrench from Harbor Freight in hopes it will hold the variator tightly enough, but I have doubts. If it doesn't, I'll spend more time making a tool using two bolts to hold the variator. Just don't want to break off any fins or do other damage. I'd get the impact wrench but I don't know how to use it to properly torque the nut when reinstalling it.
Hopefully, your problem is solved and you can enjoy miles of riding and hauling gravel with no smell or other problem. lol. I can't even picture how you were hauling gravel with a scooter.[/b]
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babblefish
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Location: San Francisco
2006 Blur 180, 2008 Buddy St. Tropez

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

phenomenalworld wrote:
so here's a final follow up to this story/thread. after getting the belt and rollers installed, i thought the burning smell has ceased, but then it would appear now & then. was i imagining things? finally i had to conclude that no, the problem persisted, and the belt/roller switcharoo was totally ineffective. i took the scoot to scooter dynasty here in LA. they were swamped with work that day, but after telling the knowledgable desk guy the issue, and what i tried to do to resolve it, he said "no, man, the belt and rollers wouldn't be making a smell. it's something to do with the engine. i would first check to see if there's any oil spilled on the engine. also you don't need to change belt rollers until at least 8000 miles and more like 12000". so i went home and did as he said. sure as shit, there was dried oil guck in a few big patches right on the engine. i wiped them up, and the burning smell is gone. one problem in my life finally cleared up, and at least i didn't pay them $85 to "diagnose", but instead got the free tip because they were too busy.

the end.


Glad we were of no help to you on this one, Lol.
At least you won't have to worry about your belt and rollers for a while anyway.Smile

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phenomenalworld
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Location: Los Angeles, United States
2012 Buddy 125

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i was hauling the ton of gravel - under the seat, between my legs in a 5 gallon bucket, bagged into the attached milk crate on back, AND a full 80 L hiking backpack on my back. Yes I reckon the gravel was a red herring, although quite the coincidence as it really did start smelling at the end of those heavy runs. No clue as to how oil got on the engine - could it be physically connected somehow to gravel runs? No idea, maybe. Yes, babble fish, thanks for nothing, haha. But yeah, at least I don't have to change that stuff for awhile. And at least the garden looks nice now with al that damn gravel. And maybe if this rigamarole and goose chase played out differently, would've essentially spent nearly same amount of money for diagnosis of oil spill/smell.
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