Greetings from a new user

[Mr. Met]

Hello all -

I was referred to this site by a cool scooter shop in Denver called Sportique.

I'm in the initial stages of trying to get accustomed to becoming a Carless-American. I don't own a scooter yet but am starting to exhibit heavy breathing whenever I see a picture of the red 2007 Buddy 125, so I think it's just a matter of time.

My question for all the experts on here is, what should I think about in making the transition from car to bike? I can appreciate the temperature differential in not having a roof, for example, but what other experiences have you all had in making such a transition - or have most people just added a scooter for warm weather occassions while keeping the car?

I live in an urban area and don't have a garage, for other info.

Thanks for your input, everyone.

Sincerely,

Mr. Met (yes I'm from NY originally), Scooter Neophyte

[Keys]

Well,

I was born and raised in Conifer, Co. and lived a few years in Denver before moving to Grand Jct. and subsequently down here to Cottonwood, AZ. The first thing you are going to notice is that snow is slick. Perhaps being completely car-less will be unreasonable. Maybe not. Denver DOES have a decent bus system.

Worse than a snowstorm, though, is a rainstorm. If you don't have proper rain gear, it takes approximately 2 seconds to get totally soaked and frozen. Snow tends to brush off. Denver has FAR more rain than we do down here.

Carrying stuff like groceries can be an issue. Supplemental racks for the front and back would be a good idea.

Maintenance will be crucial. If you are dependent on your scooter for transportation do NOT fudge on maintenance. Develop a good relationship with your dealer and specifically your mechanic. Buy 'em coffee and doughnuts. Become friends. Your investment in such a relationship will pay great dividends to both parties because you will be likely to recommend your friend to other scooterist in need.

Good tires, racks, maintenance...some people like windshields. I don't. I think they add a level of instability I'm unwilling to accept. They ARE good for protection, though. Givi and Dowco have saddlebags that work on scooters for extra storage. Givi also has good rear top-cases. The Dowco bags are designed for sport bikes but are small enough that they can work well on a scooter.

I'm not sure what else I can tell you. If you have specific questions, I'd be glad to delve into my 35 years of experience and try to answer them. Be aware, though, that I have a mind like a styrofoam trap, so some stuff may have escaped...

--Keys

[gt1000]

Hey Mr. Met, welcome. I'm in downtown Denver as well. In fact, I live a couple of blocks away from Sportique. We moved to downtown Denver 4 years ago and went from 2 cars to 1 car plus scooter, motorcycle and bicycle. My commute is 4 miles on city streets, my wife's is 20 highway miles, so I never drive the car. Normally I scoot to work every day with ice, snow and severe cold the only things stopping me. This winter has been the worst in my 20 plus years of living here. On bad days, I bus to work. I'm also a transplanted east coaster and Denver's public transportation system isn't anywhere near NY's standards, but it should provide enough options on those days you cannot scoot.

Most people do keep a car with the scoot. When you're walking around downtown Denver, make a point to check out the odometers of parked scooters. Most have very low mileage because they're more fashion statements than vehicles. But there are lots of us who are pretty hard core. For me, the transition was fun. Driving a car in and around Denver is no fun but scooting is a blast. On days I can't ride, I usually think about riding. It's addictive but also pretty practical. You'll save a bundle in gas, insurance, parking and probably repairs, but 2 wheelers of any sort can be relatively pricey to maintain. You mentioned having no garage. Where will you keep your scooter?

The only way to find out if you can do it is to do it. The Sportique guys will spend time with you teaching you how to ride but you'll need your motorcycle endorsement for any scoot over 50cc's. If it's your only vehicle, I would definitely recommend you get at least a 125, but personally, I'd be more comfortable on a 250. So, as great as the Buddy 125 is, check out other brands and definitely test ride a 250 or two. Finally, take the MSF class and gear up!

[sunshinen]

well, i'd sell my car if there were any transportation to get to work on the ice/snow days. i also don't like riding in the rain. the cagers are just too oblivious.

i put a basket on the back and that works for groceries and things. and i use my boyfriend's suv for mountain biking and other large-item transportation.

if you have a way to get where you need to go on the days when scooting won't be safe, i'd say go for it!

Things to consider:

• rain gear
  full face helmet
  boots
  armored jacket and gloves
  layers for the cold
  doing oil changes yourself to save money on maintenance
  windshield (i love mine--a tall one cut down)
  rear rack and top case/milk crate/shopping basket
  cover and locks (possibly fill a large storage bin with cement, use tubing through middle of cement to put a chain through so that you have something substantial to lock your scooter to if there isn't a bike rack or anything at your home)
  MSF safety course
  health insurance
  do you ever have to use a highway or anything where the speed of traffic is 65+?

[peabody99]

Welcome Mr. Met- I am always interested in the downsizing to one or no car discussions. We live in an equally harsh winter enviroment -Cleveland. We live and work in the city, but I have a job that requires I go in the field often so I have to have a mode non public transortation. Our story started in last June. We sold one of the cars and got a Buddy, thinking that one would take the Buddy to work the other the car. I was the one who wanted the scooter, spouse grudgingly relented. Of course he stole the Buddy and I never saw it so we got a second Buddy within a few weeks. So we have one car and 2 budds. What we did not realize is how much we would not only enjoy riding them to work, but for recreation together...a side benifit was my other 1/2 no longer pays $50 a month in parking as motorcycle parking is not only a primo location, but FREE. I think others have been finding this as well. Of course you know about the gas, maintanence an insurance savings, not to mention decresed enviromental impact.

So winter is upon us-snow,ice, well below freezing daytime highs now. I am driving the car and spouse was intending on taking the bus to his job everyday-a little less than 3 miles, but has found he hates the bus (as it is not really reliable and he impatient waiting for it when he could just be walking) and is doing a combo of walking, sometimes taking the free downtown shuttle for part of the ride, and an occasional pick up or drop off from me. He has really liked getting the exercise. It has not been at all inconvenient for either of us.

I do not know about outdoor storage part. We have a heated garage below our condo, so they are well protected. We were both riding until the snow and ice really settled in, or it was insanely windy-something you may or may not have to deal with-as we live with in spitting distance of wideopen lake erie. I have a large windscreen which covers the handle bars as well as face which makes a huge difference (doesnt feel right at higher speeds though, so it is coming off in spring, and I keep speeds lower with it on).

I agree with g1000 that I dread driving the car in city traffic, but it really is a blast on the scooter. last summer/fall we may have only averaged 150-200 miles a month on the car- it just sat collecting dust. I did take it work on rainy days that I had appointments out of the office b/c I could not show up looking like a wet dog. Otherwise I did ride in the rain at times (or waited the rain out) if I planned on being in the office all day. Even if you keep the car AND get the scooter, you will extend the life of your car by driving it less, and save on gas.

[SheZAAM!]

HI there!

I'm another soon-to-be Denverite. I'll be moving there from Michigan, after spending the winter in Tucson. I own a pink Buddy 125, which is plenty of scooter unless you want to travel on the freeway. We plan to move there and have 1 car, 1 scooter and 2 bikes for as long as possible. I'm getting into horses, so I'm currently dreaming of a diesel pick-up & horse trailer.

I agree that Denver winter (from what I've heard) can be too brutal for year-round scooting. Even here in Tucson, I don't ride if it's raining or under 35 degrees.

I LOVE my buddy!

[Mr. Met]

Wow - thanks to Keys, gt1000, sunshinen, peabody99, and SheZAAM! for the great responses!

I should have mentioned that my wife does have a Subaru Outback that we can we can share on the especially awful days (like almost every day since mid-December this year - I agree this is the worst winter in the 15 years I've been living here). I have a home office so I can probably deal with the weather issues by hunkering down if need be or maybe taking a cab or a bus if I absolutely have to go somewhere.

I can park it off-street if I lift it up a few steps and keep it on the porch or maybe in the alley between my house and my neighbor's. Do people steal scooters or is it a risk of people backing into them with cars if you leave them on the street?

I have one neighbor with a huge 3 car garage - I was thinking of maybe offering him 25 bucks a month or something to let me park it there, if the security or weather are a concern - should I pursue something like that?

I'll have to test drive a few and see how they feel. I'm scared to death of motorcycles but feel comfortable on a scooter, but I don't want to increase the wheel size too much. I'm leaning towards the 125 if it will work for the occassional but not everyday highway ride. Can they handle that, assuming decent weather conditions?

[SheZAAM!]

Highway yes, freeway no. Imageine a LARGE semi blowing past you and the wind that would follow. *shudder*.

[gt1000]

Do people steal scooters or is it a risk of people backing into them with cars if you leave them on the street?

Yes.

Unsecured scooters are easy to steal. Two people can easily toss one into a pickup truck. A friend of mine parked his People 50 in an alley in Capitol Hill and came out later to find it gone. They were lucky and found it a few blocks away. And careless cagers occasionally knock over scooters or motorcycles. If at all possible, tuck it away somewhere inside.

As far as highway or freeway riding, it depends mainly on the speed limit. Objectively, the 125 is probably capable of relatively safe riding on some 55 mph roads. But you need to make sure there are no long uphill stretches, or you'll be having some major pucker moments. Personally, I feel very strongly that the stock 125 does not have enough reserve power to safely ride multi-lane highways. If you anticipate using the highway on a semi-regular basis, get a bigger scooter. Even a 250 with a top speed well over 80 is risky. Scooter acceleration is far from linear. Those last 5-10 mph that you can squeeze out of your scoot can take a long time to reach. On a motorcycle, you can downshift a gear or two and rocket away from trouble. On a scooter, you wait. Anyone taking a 125 scoot onto I-25 or I-70, or any interstate, has a major death wish.

I understand what you're saying about the differences between motorcycles and scooters but you also need to remember that scoots over 50cc's legally ARE motorcycles for a reason.

[cassie]

Mr. Met, please, please, please don't leave your scoot out unprotected. It is a fantastic idea to ask the neighbor about borrowing a small spot in the garage. Buddy's are great, but very easily picked up and thrown in the back of a truck. I worry about mine and it's parked in a garage!

I can promise you that if you get a Buddy it will be the best decision you ever made. There isn't one thing on this earth that's funner than getting on my Buddy and going on a little road trip. It is a little piece of heaven right here on earth.

You sound like you are pretty hip to the Buddy, so it's pretty concrete that you will end up getting one. You can either do it now or do it later, I can tell you have the fever! Life is short, just ride.

[ericalm]

As far as highway or freeway riding, it depends mainly on the speed limit. Objectively, the 125 is probably capable of relatively safe riding on some 55 mph roads.

125s may not be highway legal in your state. I tried to find the info online, but could not; your state DOT web site mayhave it. I know that in CA, 150 is the minimum engine size for highway riding (despite the fact that a Buddy 125 will outrun many 150s).

[Mr. Met]

I talked to my neighbor today, cassie, and it didn't sound promising. He's got a 3 car garage but he says the thing is a mess (I believe him) so he's not sure if he can commit to that. I'm back to looking at the front porch or possibly chaining it to the gas line (I'm not too thrilled about that concept.) So many little details. I hadn't even thought about boots and body armor until today.

ericalm - thanks for checking - I think it must be ok here given what the guy at the store was saying, but I'll look into that. How do you like your Buddy compared to your Vespa?

[ericalm]

How do you like your Buddy compared to your Vespa?

Here's what I initially wrote about the two in this thread:

The weight is more evenly distributed on the LX because, I guess, of the steel body. Most of the Buddy's weight is low and in the center/engine area. his makes the LX feel heavier, though it isn't. It also means that it leans quite differently; it takes more effort to turn and you really feel it lean a lot more. At the same time, it seems to me like the LX has wider lean angles. This means that in some ways it's harder to control the LX, but the rider may have more control at times because it's tilting under force you're exerting over it.

In comparison, the Buddy feels "loose." It tilts easily; I hit kickstand my first time out on it, which has never happened on the LX. When combined with its zip, this makes the Buddy a fun ride that corners and handles with ease at fairly high speed. But as has been noted elsewhere, this contributes to the "overconfidence factor." For me, this means just having to be a lot more conscious of how much control I really have when maneuvering because it's quite tempting to drive it at its limits.

Jess described the Buddy as "twitchier" than an LX, which I think is a pretty good characterization. The two offer very different riding experiences, but I think that's in their intent and design. A Vespa is a very idiosynchratic machine, but it's definitely a few steps up in terms of build and finish; to me, it's a more mature, sophisticated ride. The Buddy is sort of like a teenager, eager, fearless, capable of doing all the "adult" things, perhaps even faster, but not as smoothly.

[Mr. Met]

That's interesting, ericalm. Philosophical almost. Which would you recommend for a first-time scooter user with little to no experience riding?

[ericalm]

That's interesting, ericalm. Philosophical almost. Which would you recommend for a first-time scooter user with little to no experience riding?

I'd recommend the Buddy. My wife, the primary Buddy rider in our household, had never ridden any 2 wheeled motor vehicle and quickly picked it up. (Taking the MSF Basic Rider Course is recommended for a new rider of any scoot/motorcycle.) It also has the advantages of being very cheap to repair should you happen to drop it. And it's crazy fun to ride. The Buddy is a great value overall, an excellent first scoot that performs well enough to appeal to more experienced riders.

Because of the big price difference between the two, I think the Buddy's real competition isn't the Vespa as much as the Kymco People (which I have not ridden but which is reportedly a very good scoot) and the myriad of cheaper, no-brand/generic Asian imports (stay away! flee!) which appeal to people who don't care about quality or don't know any better.

[Mr. Met]

Excellent advice, ericalm - many thanks!

[cassie]

Mr. Met, I too, was a little worried about being a first time rider. I got my temps before I even bought my buddy. ( I also bought a very sexy chevette with a luggage rack and no windows before I had my drivers license, so I'm kind of like the laziest overachiever ever).
I was terrified to get on the buddy, because I was very afraid I would forget how to use the brakes or that the first time out, someone would smack right into the back of me. But, neither of those things has happened yet (knock on buddy plastic)..........see if you can find someone that will let you test drive one and maybe it will be easier than you think, it was for me. As far as being overconfident on the buddy, the previous poster was completely right. I have a friend who rides a motorcycle and she told me to never get on a scooter or a motorcycle unless you are a little nervous about crashing. Being overconfident will only cause you problems!

Cassie

[Mr. Met]

OK I'm signed up for the motorcycle safety class on Feb 17-18. They require boots that cover your ankles - do you guys normally wear that level of protection or are they just being strict?

[ellen]

OK I'm signed up for the motorcycle safety class on Feb 17-18. They require boots that cover your ankles - do you guys normally wear that level of protection or are they just being strict?

I always wear motorcycle boots. Protects the ankles and grips the pavement.

I'm a Met fan too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[paige]

AGATT-All Gear All The Time

armored or padded or leather jacket

gloves

full face helmet

boots

long pants

[BoneGirl]

I always wear full face, armored jacket, long pants and boots. It will take one time down for you to appreciate all this extra gear.

A gal from Cleveland had on Converse gym shoes this past fall and went down dragging the Buddy on top of her. Foot looked like an umbrella without the fabric. She ended up having 2 toes removed. The picture was posted and it was enough to make me wear boots every time I ride.

[ericalm]

A gal from Cleveland had on Converse gym shoes this past fall and went down dragging the Buddy on top of her. Foot looked like an umbrella without the fabric. She ended up having 2 toes removed. The picture was posted and it was enough to make me wear boots every time I ride.

And, to add to that horror story, she's an experienced rider, married to a dealer (and MB member), who was on a Buddy at the time.

viewtopic.php?t=684
the whole story here

[Mr. Met]

Ay Carumba. Kudos to both those of brave souls. That's a very sobering story.

[lobsterman]

Mr. Met,

We're a 1 Buddy 1 Outback family, works for us. I take the bus to downtown when the weather gets precipitous, but I ride most other days even when cold.

I also recommend ATGATT and the MSF course followed by full license, as do many here. I personally use an armored jacket, riding gloves, and full face helmet, with jeans. I might look for more protection for the legs if I should happen to visit the pavement some day.

For the MSF course I believe they will accept high top sneakers, but for real life I want something more substantial as others have described. Your acceptable level of risk might be more than mine, I know people who ride with less gear.

Enjoy and welcome.

[ScooterDave]

Your acceptable level of risk might be more than mine, I know people who ride with less gear.

I usually ride in my speedo's & muscle shirt.

[Catalyst]

I have to go by base regulations, but I do like having my ankles protected. Especially since I did go down not long ago. I have combat boots, cowboy boots, leather snow boots (that's what I was wearing when I went down, they did a good job at a lower speed), and I have yet to wear my dress shoes (I wear witchy boots with a majority of my dresses).

Leather jackets, full long pants, occasionally I forget my gloves, but I try not to, I like having fingers.

Helmet
Glasses (I have a tall windshield so a full face helmet isn't necessary, but protective glasses are still good, especially for side wind)
something reflective around my torso, either a reflective vests, or the reflective running belts the active duty wear. (believe it or not, I was wearing the full vest when the accident happened, haven't had anyone come anywhere near me while wearing the PT belt, don't ask me why. Weirdos)

After over a decade of riding a bicycle in and out of traffic, I was more than happy to slap on all the gear to ride a scooter.

[polianarchy]

Your acceptable level of risk might be more than mine, I know people who ride with less gear.

I usually ride in my speedo's & muscle shirt.

I usually ride in Scooter Dave's speedos and muscle shirt.

[lou76]

Your acceptable level of risk might be more than mine, I know people who ride with less gear.

I usually ride in my speedo's & muscle shirt.

all that clothing is probably slowing you down, sccoterdave....

[BoneGirl]

I usually ride in my speedo's & muscle shirt.

...yes! He does. But please note he wears protective eye gear, boots and helmet .

[Mr. Met]

... and he stores his extra helmet in his shorts, apparently.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Catalyst]

Are you sure those are boots? They look like sneakers and socks to me!

Oh and at the spare helmet thing!

[BoneGirl]

Are you sure those are boots?

Urban boots and the required black socks.

[lobsterman]

Your acceptable level of risk might be more than mine, I know people who ride with less gear.

I usually ride in my speedo's & muscle shirt.

Clearly, ScooterDave is the person I had in mind when making my post.