180cc Blur? - anyone upgraded with the GY6 180cc Power Kit?

beelzebubbles · Post by **beelzebubbles** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:14 am

I noticed on the local craigslist yesterday an ad for a 180cc Big Bore Power Kit. From a link there I got this: http://www.partsforscooters.com/180cc_kit_gy6

I know Babbelfish has already mentioned this kit in Taiwan, so I'm guessing this is the same thing. An extra 30cc would be 20% cc upgrade, so while not pushing it to an entirely different scooter class, it would seem to be a noticeably significant improvement.

Has anyone tried this upgrade? About how much would it cost in labor, do you think? I'm going to call my local scooter shop to ask them, but wanted to see if any other Blurries (Blurites? Blurians?) have done this mod on their soon-to-be-cult-status scooter yet. Thanks in advance for any input!

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:11 pm

I've been thinking about it, but I haven't done it yet. There's a slew of these kits out there, but most are aimed at the GY6 Chinese clones. There's a lot of research that has to be done before putting one in, it's also a systematic approach.

The 180cc kits most likely mean that you have to machine your case. Once you start cutting into the metal, you can't go back. You also want to know where the kit was produced including any linings that it has in the sleeve and the metallurgy of it. There's no sense in forking out $200 for the kit (average price) and $300-$400 (rough estimate at 70-100 hour) or more for something that's just going to keep your scooter in their shop every other week or month. No shop in their right mind can guarantee that work, as a lot of it depends on the quality of the kit and if it's a universal vs model specific.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against this at all, I'm actually for it. I'd just take a lot of time and do research before putting something I found on Craigslist in my bike.

Once I do the kit (or similar - non machining size kit) I'll post a breakdown of the process, but that may very well be a bit later.

Just use caution and research, and most important, report back to us!

maxG · Post by **maxG** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:58 pm

180cc? not a chance!

well, i dont have a problem machining the case but the question there is: up to what extent?

doing so would make the wall so thin that you might loose compression and leak in due time and reliability issues is a vital concern,you dont want to think about that...[unless the kit has a modified crankcase included]

theres a law of diminishing returns....but then again...there are other ways of dealing with it...

the 200cc gmax is heavy, poor in acceleration[vs. 150cc version]though top end is better VS. a STOCK gmax 150cc

i wont go for the 180cc kit....even if you change it to 200cc...well maybe it will have a better acceleration BUT TOP END WONT MAKE ANY MUCH DIFFERENCE..

i got a 61mm bore...near close to 180cc...but i had installed a special primary gear [ and thats not even a part of the gmax ] which can improve acceleration and top end at the same time.

...the gearing is the secret weapon...friends from taiwan kept on just talking about bigger bore, bigger bore and bigger bore

how can you maximize the full potential of a bigger bore if you cant modify your gearing? the problem though is that the gearing is very tricky to find because primarily, its not being used for scooters

if there is a market for 200cc gmax in you local area...then just buy a 200cc

but if my local area do both sell a 200cc and 150 AND there are lots of tuning parts available for 150cc, then ill go for the 150cc

lots of people i know ended up selling their modified 150cc and bought the 200cc...a testament that bigger bore means better...in their way of thinking..and sounds better of saying my 200cc fair better...true..if you gauge it against a stock gmax 150cc

but then again....when they sold their modified 150cc...it doesnt have 1 vital part which me and my mechanic has: the primary gear

just an opinion

maxG · Post by **maxG** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:07 pm

i had seen the website...

does this kit "snap on" directly to the gmax 150cc chassis?

it does say, gy6..well theres lots of scoots that uses gy6 though.

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:16 pm

MaxG,

Can you give us some more info on the gearing? As you can imagine, finding parts for a Gmax over in the states is very difficult. It's very hard to find compatible parts. There's also a slew of varying opinions about which thing is best, etc.

I've looked at gearing, getting a slightly longer belt (finding any belt with a 28degree angle is not easy), specially designed pulleys, etc. I think that the gearing is the tricky part to find. The 150 does well stock. If it were geared differently, I think that would make the package whole. Is there a reliable source that you go to that has Gmax compatible gearing sets? Also, there's a ton of different gearing options. Could you clear up those gears that you spoke of that increase low and top end?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:01 am

First, the 180cc kit on Craigs List in addition to all the 180cc kits on Ebay will not work on our Blurs. The reason being our engines are the "C5M" version of the GY6 family which basically means it (the C5M) has an additional internal port that I believe is for exhaust recirculation to help reduce the smog output. To see what I'm talking about, look carefully at the cylinder from this kit (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Big-Bore ... ccessories

Notice the 5th hole between the lower two cylinder bolt holes. None of the other big bore kits have this.

Also, MaxG is correct in saying that just a bigger displacement will not neccessary give you more top speed. You'll gain torque, but your max RPM will stay more or less the same. What it will do though, is enable you to go up hill faster because of the increased torque. Since I live in fairly hilly country, an increase in displacement would definitely be useful. On the other hand, if you live on the flatlands, you won't see much gain. The trick would be to find a replacement set of final output gears to fit the Blur transmission that will make use of the increased torque. Again, such gears are available for other GY6 clones, but not ours. Well, none that I can find - still looking.

BTW: The Ebay ad I posted says that big bore kit will work in our type of engines and I'm currently working with the seller to confirm this.

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:38 am

Yep, this is the exact conclusion that I've come to. In looking around for a Big Bore kit, it seems that you can do up to 61mm without having to machine the case. I've not made up my mind yet on if I want to do the crankshaft yet of not, but that's how I'd get to the 180cc mark instead of 170cc with just the 61mm bore.

The extra power's fun and all, but getting the final gearing changed would need a little more power from the engine. It's a systematic approach. Again, finding compatible parts is the tricky, erm, part.

The emissions port on the kit you mentioned above is what separates the G-Max/Blur from the rest of the GY6 engines. The one thing I don't want to do is compromise the case, which means I don't want to machine it. It's still possible to get the cc's up there a little ways, but that's only half the treasure hunt. We still need to find compatible gearing kits to normalize the upgrade out. Don't get me wrong here, I love a good kick in the pants which is exactly what the big bore would do without gearing to match. Changing the final drive gear after the kit would take away a little of the umph you'd initially get from just adding the big bore itself, and that's the end result I'm looking for.

Babblefish, let me know if that kit ends up being compatible. Carlos is a good guy, very helpful.

I did a little research on that coating that's on the sleeve in that kit (I ran across the same kit recently, but I wasn't really paying much attention the emissions port as being the key to compatibility with our engines). It seems that that material has a lot of benefits, but I couldn't find a direct comparison between it an ceramic lining. So that's another thing I've been looking into recently. The next step is finding a head to go with it, preferably that's already matched up to the bore size that's selected. I've found a number of heads that are already matched up to the various bore kits and come pre-polished and with larger valves. I of course haven't found anything that says it's compatible with the Blur yet, but I'm keeping an eye out.

YANKEE DOODLE · Post by **YANKEE DOODLE** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:56 am

Its not worth to spend money on a g-max 150 cc just to make a little or no improvement on its performance.

There are g-max 150 cc owner who does not have a dynotest conducted on their scoot but likes to brag about their performance even though theres no power gain or torque gain that they can show on a dynograph.

Bottomline is whether its a 150 cc or 200 cc modified or not, a BLUR/G-MAX is a slow scoot.

Just my $0.02 cents

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:00 pm

thanks?

hi2525 · Post by **hi2525** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:41 pm

Yankee doodle do you own a gmax or blur. Just wondering. I considering mine to go fast and wondering why you feel this way.

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:42 pm

Wait.........
Don't tell me......
Sniff, sniff, sniff....
Yes, the unmistakable scent of Eau de Troll

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:11 pm

Well, that was about as annoying as a commercial break for kid's cereal.

So.... about those bore kits, or more importantly a gearing kit.

hi2525 · Post by **hi2525** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:16 pm

I would rather change gears than bore it out. It just makes more sense to me.

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:23 pm

Same here. I'm not convinced that a big bore kit is the way to go, but that's not stopping me from looking into it. It's mainly just finding G-Max specific parts that's difficult. Like a compatible gear set.

hi2525 · Post by **hi2525** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:30 pm

I agree completely. I have looked at some other gy6 gear sets for other mkeups. But for this want to make sure it is for my blur and will work for my blur.

YANKEE DOODLE · Post by **YANKEE DOODLE** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:11 pm

hi2525 wrote:Yankee doodle do you own a gmax or blur. Just wondering. I considering mine to go fast and wondering why you feel this way.

Yes,i do own a g-max 200,but i wish i bought a Yamaha Zuma 125 cc,Yamaha Zuma 125 cc performance is like a Blur 150 cc.

Made in Taiwan scooters performs less compare to Japanese made scooters as my experienced with both.

The cost of buying performance parts for a 150 cc BLUR/G-MAX does not justify the gains of power & torque on a dynotest.

A 150 cc owner of BLUR/G-MAX can lie or try to impress the forum with performance modification buth the DYNOTEST RESULT will reveal the truth.

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:43 pm

Well that's all good and fine, but I prefer the ride and fit of the Blur. That's exactly why I'm looking to pep it up a little bit. The problem is finding tested and true, reliable parts, especially ones that aren't 3-4 times the price.

The Blur's performance feels fine to me. I'm not trying to race it, hence no need for a dyno. I would like a little more pep.

If you've got a secret source for reliable, reasonably priced parts, then fess up. If you're just here to tell us we have the wrong scooter, f*** off. Although I'm really hoping it's the first and not the second...

hi2525 · Post by **hi2525** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:46 pm

It comes to the fact that I absolute love my blur. It has amazing tuning and performances per CC for me. I am putting performance on for I desire better performance for what I believe is the best I can get. I can't wait for the truth to be told. It is fun proving others wrong.

From where I see it your mentioning a another major company and may be pushing for it somehow or another. Looking at specs then go from there.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:48 pm

I dunno, from proof of speeds people are hitting on stock engines, calling PGO bikes slow is kind of a insult. There are buddy 125's hitting 80-90mph tested. And the gmax being a faster bike, the thing can probably hit a similar top end maxed out for a short period of time.

We've had people come on the boards and beat down PGO's bikes and brag about yamahas, we dont take too kindly of their attitudes. They just seem to disappear in the end.

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:02 pm

It's not that they're slow. Of course a lighter bike is going to feel faster. Thing is, there's a market out there for other brands of bikes, but not so much for the Blur's. I've had people tell me all kinds of things about how fast they can go, blah blah this and blah blah that. But when I start asking for details, they flake (like sellers in Taiwan, where all the "quality" parts are).

Frankly, I don't care if another bike is faster than mine. I want to screw around with my bike, not buy another one. Hell, if I wanted a really fast bike, I'd buy one. But then I'd probably have to spend the time modifying the suspension and brakes to get back to what I already have. So no thanks. I'll keep my Blur and maybe change out a part or two.

So again, do you know any reliable parts peddlers? Or are you just here to drum up business for Yamaha. That's not really a great idea, you ARE on a forum board for BLUR ENTHUSIAST. That's like going into the NAACP recruiting for the KKK... I doubt you'd get any conversions. It's just not a good use of time.

YANKEE DOODLE · Post by **YANKEE DOODLE** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:41 pm

I dont represent yamaha nor i'm trying to sell any parts,my point was anybody that owns a BLUR 150 CC or G-MAX 150 can spend any amount of money on their performance modification because its their own money & thats their business.

But the cost of parts and labor wont justify the power & torque gain on the dynotest.Like i said before DYNOTEST wont lie.

Regarding parts ? Its not easy,i went to International Motorcycle show in Long Beach California and PGO does not even show their products.

YANKEE DOODLE · Post by **YANKEE DOODLE** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:44 pm

hi2525 wrote:It comes to the fact that I absolute love my blur. It has amazing tuning and performances per CC for me. I am putting performance on for I desire better performance for what I believe is the best I can get. I can't wait for the truth to be told. It is fun proving others wrong.

From where I see it your mentioning a another major company and may be pushing for it somehow or another. Looking at specs then go from there.

And where are your FACTS to back up your modifications? Any DYNOTEST results to support ?

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:54 pm

Sorry, I must have misunderstood. Care to start over?

maxG · Post by **maxG** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:49 pm

charlie55 wrote:Wait.........
Don't tell me......
Sniff, sniff, sniff....
Yes, the unmistakable scent of Eau de Troll

hmmmm.....sniff...sniff.....i got a cold nose

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:53 pm

Hehe. So MaxG, can you recommend some sources for things like gearing or some of the DCR stuff that might be willing to sell to the US?

Thanks!

maxG · Post by **maxG** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:39 pm

it was my understanding that this is a blur/gmax thread...

members here do love their blur/gmax, some woudnt mind spending just to make the blur look and perform better....they dont race..they just want to make the blur look and perform better.....

to say that the blur/gmax 150 /200cc is slow, errr...only if:

....you gauge against a 210cc fully malossi kitted dragter/gilera runner

....you gauge against the TOP 3 MAXI SCOOTS IN AMERICA

....you gauge it against a big bike

....a nitrous oxide lawnmower

question though...some scoots do improve their top end by a bit...without adding performance parts...and by only adding a windscreen to reduce drag...

...would a need a dyno then

?

people who race has got resources to have a dyno test and still lost in the race because their scoot is 0.0000006 sec slower....

....can you brag that your scoot did that dyno but still lost?

but then again,,they race and we dont

if the dyno is so much of a big deal....how come most performance parts manufacturers doesnt say in their packaging recommending a dyno test upon instillation?

is there a general rule you cant submit a testimony if youre souped up scoot didnt undergone a dyno?

as far as i know...

you can prove a perfomance gain using a dyno....

and proving it by running like hell on a road..just to prove if your DIY tuning did work properly..

cant imagine a gmax owner being belittle to his own gmax.....

i love my gmax...even if its not japanese made......even if its not as popular compared with those japanese maxi scoots...even if its just a 150cc....

if somebody wants a faster bike....i would rather buy a bigbike than a japanese maxi scoot

beelzebubbles · Post by **beelzebubbles** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:43 am

YANKEE DOODLE wrote:
And where are your FACTS to back up your modifications? Any DYNOTEST results to support ?

OK, taking a chance that it's a case of foot in the mouth vs. blatant trolling (if response proves the latter, no need of further comment)...

Where's your dynotest to back up the assertion that a Yamaha Zuma 125 is faster than a Blur 200? For someone who keeps talking about dynotests, I haven't seen a piece of data on your end.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:09 am

It has been my understanding that the Zuma is made in China for Yamaha. Not that it makes any difference to me because I ride what I like and others ride what they like. I don't care to compare my p**ker to anyone elses 'cause...I-don't-really-care. Besides, I KNOW that the orange sparkplug cap I installed added at least 4 HP because my butt dyno told me so! So there!

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:28 am

I think I might have run Yankee off. Perhaps next time he'll make a new ID and post a little less critical of the Blur. I love the way this thing rides. Sure it's a little slower than I'd like it to be, but if it were as fast as I want it to be, I'd have to find something else to obsess about. I like screwing around with my scooters. It's fun. Hell it's half the reason I got a small bike in the first place. If I wanted a large displacement and faster ride, I'd get a Citycom. I still might. If I can talk my wife into it, I will. But that'll just mean that I'd be free to turn the Blur into a full-on project bike. And I'd be totally OK with that. I get an allowance (don't laugh too much, I think it's an awesome agreement that my wife and I have) each week to do with what I please. I'd rather blow it on my Blur, my Buddy or whatever. This is my hobby. If I decide to throw a cam and carb on my Blur, I'll do it. But not without some basis of research first.

Sure the Zuma might be a little quicker, sure it's got EFI (which I desperately want for the Blur) but it sure as hell doesn't have the frame and ride of the Blur. I'm OK with that. I'd rather spend my money on what I like than spend my money on something I think is OK to get it to where I like it. This kinda thing can't be rationalized. I've got two scoots and two cages. On top of that, my wife and I can carpool because of the proximity of our workplaces. I've got enough options where I can pretty much do whatever I want with my scoot, and I will.

If someone wants to post to these threads about a better scooter, it's going to fall on deaf ears. This is the ModernBuddy Blur forum, right? I'm sure everyone here just hates their Blur's. </sarcasm>

YankeeD, if you're still reading.... if you're that dissatisfied with your 200cc Gmax, shoot me a tell. I might be interested in buying it from you. That way, you can get your Zuma and everyone ends up happy. The 200cc does have the mono-shock mid-mounted, right? I think that's a big pro to the Blur's ride. I'd just have to justify having three scoots to my wife, but she's a softy deep down, hehe.

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:50 am

OK, now that the previous non-sense is out of the way...

I'm still looking into some form of bore upgrade kit. I don't want to machine. Has anyone had a chance to take apart their engine enough to find out what size sleeve the crankcase will take? I'm working with unverified numbers here. I've heard that the 61mm jug will fit into the case without machining. I've also considered getting a longer stroke crank, but again, there's no hard facts.

I'm aware of the dangers of using generic "GY6" parts and thanks to Babblefish, I realize that the emissions port should be considered when shopping around. I still haven't found a true bolt-on exhaust. I'd like to avoid MRP because they're just not very cooperative and the price they want (or suggest to their dealers anyway) is too much. Honestly, I like the look of the factory exhaust (could be the sci-fi look, who knows?) but I wouldn't mind something more free-flowing. The DCR stuff looks very slick, but I can't find any sort of web page out there for them. Has anyone else had better luck?

There's a ton of options out there for us (the crazy ones that are willing to fork out money for basically testing out a product). I'm not afraid of spending the money and trying something, but damn if I'll do it without having some basis of facts behind it. Trial and error is half the fun, amiright?

LisaLisa · Post by **LisaLisa** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:42 am

uhhh...zuma troll! Uhh nice to have you back. I guess. Nice job getting round the ban.