New 4-stroke Stella

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Fri May 08, 2009 5:23 am

Let the speculation… end!

Here's the prototype, now it's off to CA for CARB testing:

http://2strokebuzz.com/2009/05/the-new-stella-unveiled

Bryan

(PS I'm sure we can still find stuff to speculate about.)

ScootStevie · Post by **ScootStevie** » Fri May 08, 2009 5:39 am

Just what I've been waiting for, hehehe. Cant wait!!!!

Post by **ericalm** » Fri May 08, 2009 6:25 am

As I wrote in the comments on 2sb, I'm particularly interested in the hint at a Genuine/PGO/LML collaboration. This could be the touring scoot we've heard about or, possibly, a metal-bodied scoot designed to compete with the GTS—the fabled 250cc based on the Stella, but with a PGO engine.

KRUSTYburger · Post by **KRUSTYburger** » Fri May 08, 2009 6:30 am

(^ Wow, I think that is going to give me a seizure.)

Post by **ericalm** » Fri May 08, 2009 6:32 am

Wondering now whether doing a LML 2T 150, P200 or other engine swap may not be so easy on this bad boy.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Fri May 08, 2009 12:09 pm

Swingarm mount is entirely different eric, no go.

Also, AFAIK, PGO doesn't have a 250. Which isn't to say they couldn't make one…

Post by **ericalm** » Fri May 08, 2009 12:43 pm

illnoise wrote:Also, AFAIK, PGO doesn't have a 250. Which isn't to say they couldn't make one…

Not now, they don't. (Their 250cc ATV sports a Piaggio engine! Irony!) Makes me wonder who'll be making the engine for the Genuine/PGO touring scoot, though.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Fri May 08, 2009 1:59 pm

For a short while, technically PGO built a gmax 250 which wasnt very popular, but a few people on this forum in asia have one.

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Fri May 08, 2009 2:03 pm

After seeing your article in the 2 StrokeBuzz; Stella looks very attractive. I hope they get the larger motor, we, our household, would consider it for a future ride.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Fri May 08, 2009 2:06 pm

LML does make a 200cc 2 stroke model in India. But philip mcaleb said back then importing it would be stupid, he claimed it got less mileage, put out more pollution, etc.

I'd still like to see PGO and LML make a super mash up stella, LML body, PGO motor.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Fri May 08, 2009 2:20 pm

Having some server problems today (and a lot of traffic), so if the 2SB link's not working, just try again later. Sorry!

UPDATE: Worse than we thought. Might have to shut it down for the day, ugh. Sorry. Trying to move to another server, but probably won't happen too quickly. Figures it'd be today.

ANOTHER UPDATE: Slopped together a rough html version with a couple of the photos from the full story. enjoy!

Bryan

enzomatic · Post by **enzomatic** » Fri May 08, 2009 5:13 pm

hmmmm, wondering if i can find an excuse to drive up to napa or sonoma and go to the carb facility

Angela · Post by **Angela** » Fri May 08, 2009 5:26 pm

i will start saving now.

darn, i guess the project vespa will sit in the garage a little longer.

ScootStevie · Post by **ScootStevie** » Fri May 08, 2009 5:30 pm

Angela wrote:i will start saving now.

darn, i guess the project vespa will sit in the garage a little longer.

I'll start saving change in the piggy bank

Oh no....I'm getting the bug

Post by **ericalm** » Fri May 08, 2009 5:33 pm

Angela wrote:i will start saving now.

I should have started a couple years ago!

Angela · Post by **Angela** » Fri May 08, 2009 5:36 pm

ericalm wrote:
Angela wrote:i will start saving now.
I should have started a couple years ago!

Eric, you don't already have a Stella fund? You've been doing this longer than me.

ScootStevie · Post by **ScootStevie** » Fri May 08, 2009 5:45 pm

I'm just going to work my ass off. Umm, 7 days a week, 12 hrs a day

polianarchy · Post by **polianarchy** » Fri May 08, 2009 5:49 pm

D'oh! This one's working right now: http://2strokebuzz.com/?p=5224

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Fri May 08, 2009 5:55 pm

illnoise wrote:(PS I'm sure we can still find stuff to speculate about.)

Oh, I don't think that'll be a problem. Here's the official rumor I'm going to start right now. Remember the Bajaj Chetak? Remember how slow it was until POC Phil created a pipe for it? Hmm? Are you catching my drift here?

Post by **ericalm** » Fri May 08, 2009 6:07 pm

Angela wrote:
ericalm wrote:
Angela wrote:i will start saving now.
I should have started a couple years ago!
Eric, you don't already have a Stella fund? You've been doing this longer than me.

No kidding! I've also known about this Stella for a long time and have frequently said I want to buy the first one sold in CA. Unfortunately, right now "new Stella" isn't at the top of my budget priorities. It is at the top of my "stuff I really really want" list, though.

BuddyJ · Post by **BuddyJ** » Fri May 08, 2009 6:55 pm

I like it. More power and better fuel economy combined with classic looks. It's hard not to like it thus far.

Frankenscoot · Post by **Frankenscoot** » Fri May 08, 2009 7:06 pm

Why can't they keep it a 2T? They were able to make a CA legal 2T in the form of the Rattler 110 so why couldn't they use that tech to do the same for the Stella?

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Fri May 08, 2009 7:43 pm

Man, the Stella in a 4-stroke. That's a dream of mine! So many accessories and that great body style

. Initially, I went with the Buddy 'cause my commute is about 50 minutes with some long stretches of fast travel (50+ mph) and the 2-stroke would have just been pushed too hard. I really like the classic looks of the Stella plus the fun of shifting! I just don't think I could pitch it.

Me: Sweetheart, I know my scooter is only 10 months old, but they just made the Stella a 4-stroke! Now, it should handle my commute better than a 2-stroke would! I think I should trade-in.

Wife: How is trading in your scooter and buying a new one going to save us money like we initially intended when you bought the Buddy?

Me: Well, the Stella is supposed to get 120 mpg! and I really want it! At first, I was thinking of the Blackjack but that's just a Buddy with some mods and flat black paint. The Stella is pure classic goodness and will make me happy.

Wife: I thought I made you happy.

Me: Never mind.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri May 08, 2009 8:00 pm

Frankenscoot wrote:Why can't they keep it a 2T? They were able to make a CA legal 2T in the form of the Rattler 110 so why couldn't they use that tech to do the same for the Stella?

2T engines will disappear from most larger CC new scooters over the next few years. This is due to stricter emissions requirements around the world. I think it's smart to begin working on better performing 4T versions and phasing out the 2Ts now.

I don't know that the 2T 150cc Stella ever actually failed CA emissions tests, but it was assumed by many it would. The "new Stella" introduced as '09 models were supposedly cleaner, but still lacked some CA-required emissions control and design features.

The "tech" in the Rattlers is pretty simple: it's a smaller engine with much less power that puts out far fewer emissions.

If the 4T Stella performs on a par with its 2T counterpart, I really have a hard time understanding why anyone would take issue with its existence. In fact, even if it doesn't I'm not sure I get why so many people seem so opposed to the idea. The 2T will be available in 49 other states through 2010. No one's forcing anyone to buy a 4T. Why not embrace it?

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Fri May 08, 2009 9:58 pm

I ranted here about some of the points that have come up in this thread, if you're bored enough, ha:

viewtopic.php?t=10205&start=100#139392

I guess I shoulda tagged the Stella story onto that thread instead of starting a new one, because there's a lot of info there. But I figured a clean speculation-free thread (or at least a new baseline for speculation, ha) made more sense...

Bb.

KRUSTYburger · Post by **KRUSTYburger** » Sat May 09, 2009 1:01 am

I actually HAVE been saving up for it since I heard it was probably going to be
produced. Only got about 1500 yet and they will probably be 3x more than that.

Maybe by the time I can afford one I could get a good deal on a used one.

Frankenscoot · Post by **Frankenscoot** » Sat May 09, 2009 1:07 am

ericalm wrote:The "tech" in the Rattlers is pretty simple: it's a smaller engine with much less power that puts out far fewer emissions.

It's only 40cc smaller though. I don't see why they can't take the same technology they put into the Rattler being CA legal and throw it into the Stella and other 2T scooters.

Post by **ericalm** » Sat May 09, 2009 1:48 am

Frankenscoot wrote:
ericalm wrote:The "tech" in the Rattlers is pretty simple: it's a smaller engine with much less power that puts out far fewer emissions.
It's only 40cc smaller though. I don't see why they can't take the same technology they put into the Rattler being CA legal and throw it into the Stella and other 2T scooters.

There's definitely more to it than CCs. The Rattler and Stella are entirely different platforms and different engine designs built by different companies. Rattler technology, at this point, is entirely PGO's; the new Stella is a Genuine/LML collaboration. I'm certain that Genuine has wanted to sell new Stellas in CA for years now. At one point, when the Stella came back into production, the buzz was that it may pass the emissions, but lacked the other features to be fully compliant.

The choice then was to either sink money into a platform that LML is probably looking at discontinuing over the next few years or working with them to develop a new design which is better equipped to meet the environmental regulations of not just the US and California, but also the European, Asian and African markets—all of which are important to LML. Spending a year or two getting the 2T Stella to meet CA specs may have been a good solution for about a year or so. But in the long term, even the smaller CC scooters will be moving to lower emission 4 stroke engines. Piaggio/Vespa is already doing this with their European 50CCs. I suspect that PGO is probably working on more powerful and efficient small 4T engines for its lineup.

I think moving the Stella to the 4T platform is forward-thinking, and will allow Genuine (and, internationally, LML) continue to offer the Stella (Star, or however it's branded overseas) for years to come despite the fact that environmental restrictions are changing on an almost annual basis.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Sat May 09, 2009 2:04 am

Simple terms, the rattler is modern tech, the stella is stone age 70's tech.

Both two stroke, but differently made.

scooterjon · Post by **scooterjon** » Tue May 12, 2009 7:41 am

I like the look of the Vespa clone, but there is nothing new about the engine. This is the Baja Chetek 150 4T. I had nothing but issue with this engine as it needed a lot of work.

See links below

http://www.grannybot.org/~macjava/Image ... engine.jpg

http://2strokebuzz.com/wp-content/uploa ... 88x391.jpg

http://www.bajajusa.com/Photos%20&%20Dr ... ploded.jpg

Jon

n2tattoos · Post by **n2tattoos** » Tue May 12, 2009 7:51 am

Tocsik wrote: Me: Sweetheart, I know my scooter is only 10 months old, but they just made the Stella a 4-stroke! Now, it should handle my commute better than a 2-stroke would! I think I should trade-in.

Wife: How is trading in your scooter and buying a new one going to save us money like we initially intended when you bought the Buddy?

Me: Well, the Stella is supposed to get 120 mpg! and I really want it! At first, I was thinking of the Blackjack but that's just a Buddy with some mods and flat black paint. The Stella is pure classic goodness and will make me happy.

Wife: I thought I made you happy.

Me: Never mind.

classic!

DennisD · Post by **DennisD** » Tue May 12, 2009 1:33 pm

n2tattoos wrote:
Tocsik wrote: Me: Sweetheart, I know my scooter is only 10 months old, but they just made the Stella a 4-stroke! Now, it should handle my commute better than a 2-stroke would! I think I should trade-in.

Wife: How is trading in your scooter and buying a new one going to save us money like we initially intended when you bought the Buddy?

Me: Well, the Stella is supposed to get 120 mpg! and I really want it! At first, I was thinking of the Blackjack but that's just a Buddy with some mods and flat black paint. The Stella is pure classic goodness and will make me happy.

Wife: I thought I made you happy.

Me: Never mind.
classic!

What you should have said:

Me: Oh you do, you do! Before you I just thought I was happy. You showed me what true happiness really is and this will just be icing on the cake!

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Tue May 12, 2009 2:16 pm

I'm glad Genuine didnt import the vespa et4 clone LML now makes.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue May 12, 2009 4:52 pm

jfrost2 wrote:I'm glad Genuine didnt import the vespa et4 clone LML now makes.

Why? I don't think they would because it would compete with the Buddy. But I do think it could sell well.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Tue May 12, 2009 4:55 pm

There was a small rumor back then saying the 4 stroke classic bike from LML would be the et4 clone. I'm saying I'm glad genuine went through with the 4 stroke LML star instead of the et4 clone because like you said, it would compete with the buddy.

Post by **ericalm** » Sat May 16, 2009 4:06 am

4T Stella being reintroduced in India as the NV:

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/New ... 535388.cms

Modern Buddy

New 4-stroke Stella

New 4-stroke Stella

Re: New 4-stroke Stella