Voodoo Buddy site?

KS Power Nick · Post by **KS Power Nick** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:45 pm

TRICK FOR THE BALL BEARINGS!!!

Put some light grease on the base then place the bearings in the grease. They hold them in place that way.

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:04 pm

I thought about doing this, but I was afraid that even if I used a thin film, it'd fling the grease out and muck up the surface of the Pulley.

Howard, the weights are too light. Try your 12 sliders and let us know how that works out.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:16 pm

Howardr wrote:I don't really seem to have much acceleration either. At least not as good as I did before all the changes. I don't get it.

Its the rollers. Especially if they're the Prima rollers, they're crap and the wrong weight. Throw the stock rollers back in if they're still good. You'll notice a big difference. I also seem to remember one of the springs being a funny weight as well, though I don't remember if it was clutch or contra.

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:28 pm

They're NCY rollers, they're a lot better quality than Prima rollers, similar to stock. The springs are all rated at 1k, but the clutch springs aren't the "standard" sized "GY6" springs.

The 10g NCY Rollers can be mixed with stock rollers to a pretty positive effect. But Howard mentioned that he already has 12 sliders.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:34 pm

Lostmycage wrote:They're NCY rollers, they're a lot better quality than Prima rollers, similar to stock. The springs are all rated at 1k, but the clutch springs aren't the "standard" sized "GY6" springs.

The 10g NCY Rollers can be mixed with stock rollers to a pretty positive effect. But Howard mentioned that he already has 12 sliders.

What's different about the clutch springs? I know the standard GY6 ones fit, thats what I've got in my clutch.

Howardr · Post by **Howardr** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:38 pm

I had 12 gram sliders previously, but put the 10gram rollers in, ASSUMING that NCY new best. Drat! Won't much of a chance to get back into it for at least 3 days, if not a week.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:40 pm

Howardr wrote:I had 12 gram sliders previously, but put the 10gram rollers in, ASSUMING that NCY new best. Drat! Won't much of a chance to get back into it for at least 3 days, if not a week.

Doh, that sucks. At least it's ridable like that, if a bit disappointing.
The 12g sliders will be much better.

djelliott · Post by **djelliott** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:57 pm

KS Power Nick wrote:TRICK FOR THE BALL BEARINGS!!!

Put some light grease on the base then place the bearings in the grease. They hold them in place that way.

That's what I did. Worked like a charm.

ScooterTrash · Post by **ScooterTrash** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:39 am

for the record, I noticed better acceleration with the kit how it came. went from quick to wheelies. Top speed is the same (even with cam) I need 12g sliders

djelliott · Post by **djelliott** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:50 pm

ScooterTrash wrote:for the record, I noticed better acceleration with the kit how it came. went from quick to wheelies. Top speed is the same (even with cam) I need 12g sliders

Yeah, I love the wheelies. Does nice burn outs too.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:56 pm

djelliott wrote:
ScooterTrash wrote:for the record, I noticed better acceleration with the kit how it came. went from quick to wheelies. Top speed is the same (even with cam) I need 12g sliders
Yeah, I love the wheelies. Does nice burn outs too.

Heh, I was practicing wheelies in my office parking lot yesterday.... I got funny looks from a guy on a streetbike who works in my building

Howardr · Post by **Howardr** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:59 am

I replaced the 10gram rollers with my 12gram sliders earlier today. I'll say one thing, though. There was no way she would do a wheelie in either configuration. I was able to get a couple of wheelies out of her when she was totally stock, though.
The ride to work at 12grams felt better than with the 10's. I'll have a better chance to test it on the way home tonight at midnight. There won't be any traffic and I can open her up.
I saw of of you guys say something about the new variator needing to glaze over a bit for best performance. How long will that take? I still not thinking that current performance is as good as it was before I made the changes

Howard

Howardr · Post by **Howardr** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:45 pm

Maybe my expections for the new variator and clutch were off. What difference in performance can be expected from this mod. Quite frankly, I'm not noticing much, if any, positive change in performance.

Question: As I'm accelerating froma stop, there is a distinct, audible, decrease in RPM's and acceleration right at about 38mph. So far, it has happened EVERY time and at almost the exact same speed every time. This did not happen before changing the change in clutch and variator. Any ideas what could be the cause?

Howard

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:09 pm

The angled grooves in the secondary sheeve cause the engine to drop in RPMs as the weights settle into the secondary position. This is normal and acceptable... it'll be a lot less drastic as the kit "breaks in". I've noticed that it helps fuel economy just the slightest (or so it seems... takes a little longer between fillups since I switched to the angled grooves).

You've got several parts that need to break in. New clutch pads, fresh pulley faces (there was almost a film on mine) and the belt will have to wear itself to the new variator faces. Give it a little time. It's not night and day between stock and just the kit. If you're looking for wheelies, you'll have to talk to others, that's never really been my thing. The thing this kit does is smooth out the ride and increase the gearing ratio allowing for a smoother acceleration (a slight increase) as well as add the capability to let it get to a higher gearing range. You might find that you'll have to change weights out a few times and experiment before you get it dialed in to exactly how you want it.

Howardr · Post by **Howardr** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:15 am

Thanks, Lostmycage. That makes me feel a lot better, because I was getting seriously bummed. I'm not looking for wheelies, but I was hoping for some immediate change in performance. I'll wait a few days and see what happens.
Thanks again
Howard

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:04 am

After you've put in a few hundred miles on it (that's like what... 2-3 days for the devout?) open the CVT up and blow out the excess belt dust and clutch dust. Pull the Bell/Drum off the Clutch and look at how much of a layer has formed! That will help with some slipping.

I might have overstated the end effect of this kit as a whole in my enthusiasm. I was simply trying to offer another option to the over-priced Dr Pulley kit. I can tell you from experience that neither the NCY, nor the Dr Pulley will give you wheelies on a 150. I still think that they are good upgrades to the power-train of the Buddy engines.

What the NCY kit does most effectively is allow you to solidly lay down the power of other upgrades. Upgrades like a Prima pipe (combined with an airbox tweak and proper jetting) or a cylinder kit (59mm for the 150cc PGO GY6 without boring the case out). There's lots you can tweak out of these little engines, especially since the frame weight is so light. The NCY kit alone will not give you a lot of boost in performance, but it'll let you lay down power more reliably from other upgrades.

Hope that helps. let us know how it works out for you once it comes into it's own. Keep in mind that you might still have to play around with the V-weights (rollers are a lot cheaper for experimenting - once you have the roller weight figured out, add 1g and get sliders) to get it to do what you want it to. Since you've got an RV250 (at least I think you do because of past pics you've posted... I could be wrong) you might want to set your Buddy up for in town mayhem (less top speed, more mid-range). I've done this with my Blur. In the past I was able to hit 80mph, but now it winds out at 70mph, but the midrange is damn-solid... I play in twisties and eat country-side right up - and avoid highways like the plague!

KRUSTYburger · Post by **KRUSTYburger** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:25 am

I got a question for the Voodoo clan... I got my Prima exhaust on without a leak and finally had a chance to test the top end
and I think I may need heavier weights? I've got 11g sliders now and I can only go about 62 indicated (slower than stock)...
when I crouch I can gain another 5mph though!

I will have to put a new plug in to see if the jetting is right, I put the k100 in. It runs smooth, but maybe because it its so humid
and so close to sea level (sometimes below sea level) maybe I need to change? I have to test it more obviously. Also when
I turn the throttle it will go kind slow and then lurch forward, which is kinda fun but I don't think it's supposed to be like that,
maybe it's normal with the CVT I duuno. Any ideas?

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:21 pm

KRUSTYburger wrote:I got a question for the Voodoo clan... I got my Prima exhaust on without a leak and finally had a chance to test the top end
and I think I may need heavier weights? I've got 11g sliders now and I can only go about 62 indicated (slower than stock)...
when I crouch I can gain another 5mph though!

I will have to put a new plug in to see if the jetting is right, I put the k100 in. It runs smooth, but maybe because it its so humid
and so close to sea level (sometimes below sea level) maybe I need to change? I have to test it more obviously. Also when
I turn the throttle it will go kind slow and then lurch forward, which is kinda fun but I don't think it's supposed to be like that,
maybe it's normal with the CVT I duuno. Any ideas?

Sounds like you might be bogging Krusty, which would mean a k100 is too big for your altitude. I'd suggest instead of swapping for a smaller jet, you might enjoy doing Scootertrash's airbox mod. Its easy and will give you more get-up-and-go than a smaller jet will.

11g sliders should be fine, thats what I use. Its more likely you're loosing power to bog.

Howardr · Post by **Howardr** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:25 am

Well, I've got 250 miles or so on the NCY kit. I'm still not impressed. The slowing of the RPM's that I mentioned before, which occurred at about 38mph, are now occurring at 25mph. Is that a natural progression?

It still feels like like I've lost half a step of acceleration from a stop AND I've lost 5mpg or so on the top end. This is not feeling , like the best $300 I've ever spent.

I took it up to a higher elevation today and it REALLY felt like it was bogging down (worse than before the kit) once I got higher in elev. I
up-jetted to a #100. I know carburation is a slippery slope, but would doing the airbox mod fix some of my new problems?

Howard

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:08 am

I'd get the kit straightened out before trying to change something else. Otherwise you'll end up masking any potential problems.

First things first, you've got the GY6 kit, right? Blue clutch, ninja star looking variator plate, same general size- basically it should look the same as in the pictures.

What's the condition of the sliders that you're using?

Also, what else did you get that put you at $300?

Did you change anything else out when you installed this?

ScooterTrash · Post by **ScooterTrash** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:53 am

I'm probably switching back to the straight ramps in the clutch, the higher stall feels funny

Howardr · Post by **Howardr** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:16 pm

It's definitely the GY6 kit, blue clutch etc. Looked just like the picture. I also got a new belt and the #100 jet. The sliders were in good shape. No other changes.
The kit also has it's own clutch spring, rated at 1000rpm. That's the same as stock, isn't it? The new spring is twice as tall as the old, but is clearly the metal is a smaller diameter.

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:03 pm

Very weird...

I'm at a loss for understanding what's going on.

Maybe try using the old belt temporarily? Did you replace it with a stock belt or some other type?

djelliott · Post by **djelliott** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:12 pm

Howardr wrote:It's definitely the GY6 kit, blue clutch etc. Looked just like the picture. I also got a new belt and the #100 jet. The sliders were in good shape. No other changes.
The kit also has it's own clutch spring, rated at 1000rpm. That's the same as stock, isn't it? The new spring is twice as tall as the old, but is clearly the metal is a smaller diameter.

Nope, That's 1000 RPM over stock. It shouldn't be twice as tall. You may have gotten the wrong spring. If the spring is to tall it won't let the clutch variate all the way and it will cause you to rev out before getting all the way to the highest gear ratio.

ScooterTrash · Post by **ScooterTrash** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:01 pm

djelliott wrote:
Howardr wrote:It's definitely the GY6 kit, blue clutch etc. Looked just like the picture. I also got a new belt and the #100 jet. The sliders were in good shape. No other changes.
The kit also has it's own clutch spring, rated at 1000rpm. That's the same as stock, isn't it? The new spring is twice as tall as the old, but is clearly the metal is a smaller diameter.
Nope, That's 1000 RPM over stock. It shouldn't be twice as tall. You may have gotten the wrong spring. If the spring is to tall it won't let the clutch variate all the way and it will cause you to rev out before getting all the way to the highest gear ratio.

Yep, spring should be the same size as stock

Howardr · Post by **Howardr** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:40 am

Okay, I think my ass must be lying to me. I took the scoot over the my local shop (Scoot Over) and had Ron take a look at it. After he rode wheelies on it down the back alley and let me have a comparison ride on a stock St Tropez, I pronounce my scoot "One bad mofo!" I guess the gradual break in of all the parts fooled me and my ass just couldn't tell how much quicker take-off I have than before.
We both still agree that top-end is off. I do a combination of in town riding, then long highway rides. I think I'm going to pick up some 13 or 14 gram sliders for the long rides and swap them back and forth. That way I'll have higher top end for the highway, then swap back for in town commuting.
Then again, now that I got a STELLA... maybe I'll use Stella for commuting and just set up the Buddy for highway use.

Howard

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:01 am

Well, I'm certainly happy to hear that you're not completely let down by the kit. The NCY variator really does seem to like a heavier weight. 13g is about the sweet spot, which is heavier than stock or the Dr Pulley slider.

And grats on getting a Stella! That's awesome!

Taz · Post by **Taz** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:32 pm

The whole vodoo thread has been interesting. I had been carefully planning on what to do with my Buddy. I've almost got everything together to ride it. Maybe later today it will be good to go. I might have gotten to light of sliders though for the NCY kit based on what I've read. We'll see after a few test rides.

The motor is all back together. I am still working on a pipe. I looked a Prima and the mounting flange seems significantly smaller than the exhaust port on my head so that would create a restriction that I don't want. I am still trying to find a carb I want to use. I'd like one that can retain the automatic choke as where I live it will need the choke 90% of the time to start.

I may have to live with the stock carb but that isn't my first choice at this point. Until I can do more research it will be my weak link unless anyone out there in Buddyluvland has a good suggestion...

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:34 pm

Taz wrote:The whole vodoo thread has been interesting. I had been carefully planning on what to do with my Buddy. I've almost got everything together to ride it. Maybe later today it will be good to go. I might have gotten to light of sliders though for the NCY kit based on what I've read. We'll see after a few test rides.

The motor is all back together. I am still working on a pipe. I looked a Prima and the mounting flange seems significantly smaller than the exhaust port on my head so that would create a restriction that I don't want. I am still trying to find a carb I want to use. I'd like one that can retain the automatic choke as where I live it will need the choke 90% of the time to start.

I may have to live with the stock carb but that isn't my first choice at this point. Until I can do more research it will be my weak link unless anyone out there in Buddyluvland has a good suggestion...

A little bit of restriction on the pipe is actually a good thing. It creates torque.

Any of the Kinhein or Mikuni carburetors will work, though some of them need different intakes but they can be had up to 40mm(though thats way too big for a Buddy)

Taz · Post by **Taz** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:52 am

Is there a fair selection of ones with automatic chokes like the stock Buddy. I have the stock carb on it now. Any suggestions for main jets. I went with a big bore and a 2mm longer stroker crank.

I'll put on a different carb when I have a chance but so far the stock will have to do for the time being.

Getting the NCY tranny (complete kit) dialed in is going to take some time as well. I started with 11g sliders. Gearing is too short (too high of revs). Same thing for the 12g ones as well. I'll try a set of 13's when I can find them. I need to put a tach on it and see what kind of revs. It seems to still be revving much higher than stock and top end is much slower than before. I need to go bigger on the main jet I am entirely certain but am trying to find some info on what sizes to start with.

It looks like a 28-30 mm carb would be a good bet based on my current setup but I don't want to over carb it either and have lousy throttle response. I definitely want to keep the automatic choke. Definitely nice to have when you got out in close to (or below) freezing weather.

BuddyJ · Post by **BuddyJ** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:26 am

With the stroker crank, did you have to put a 2mm spacer between the cylinder and case? If so, how does this affect the clearance around the cylinder head? Does anyone know if there's enough space to go all-out with a 4v head, 2mm stroker, and the big bore kit?

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:51 am

BuddyJ wrote:With the stroker crank, did you have to put a 2mm spacer between the cylinder and case? If so, how does this affect the clearance around the cylinder head? Does anyone know if there's enough space to go all-out with a 4v head, 2mm stroker, and the big bore kit?

While the 4v head will fit and work on the motor, it won't clear the cross-brace at the front of the bike. You could do it with modification, but it won't be just bolt on.