Center Stand or Side Stand?

[hal1]

Title says it all. When and why for each?

Edit: It's just that it seems that I have to yank up pretty hard to get it on the center stand

EDIT: Got it now. I wasn't pushing down on the center stand with my foot as I lifted up and back on the bike.

[Cheshire]

Situations in which the side stand just doesn't work:

-starting the scooter. You don't want it running off, do you?
-maintenance, such as oil changes or getting your mirrors juuuust right.
-uneven ground, like stupid gravel driveways.
-leveling the scooter so kitty doesn't have to stretch out on the seat uphill.

Regardless, remember to have your scooter pointing uphill. After all, both stands fold back, not forward.

[TVB]

I can tell you one situation not to use the side kickstand in: on an uneven shoulder. I used it when I stopped to take off my rain gear, standing on the right-hand side of the scooter to stay out of traffic. The poor fella tipped over, and I was unable to stop it, and the fall snapped the left brake lever. I had to ride 60 hilly miles with one brake to the only Genuine dealer in northern Michigan to get it replaced.

[Cheshire]

All this talk of snapped brake levers from falling over is making me nervous. I keep meaning to add a small pair of vice grips to the pet carrier toolkit.

TVB: that sucks. At least it wasn't the right lever, though.

[etak]

All this talk of snapped brake levers from falling over is making me nervous. I keep meaning to add a small pair of vice grips to the pet carrier toolkit.

Excuse me if I sound dense (but I am). Do you mean that part of the brake lever breaks off, therefore you could put the vice grips on the remaining part and use the vice grips for a brake lever?

[Lostmycage]

The only time I use the sidestand is when I'm stopping for a moment (say refueling or talking) and still on the bike. These things are so light that there's very rarely a reason to choose the side stand over the center stand if the bike is not under you. This of course is a matter of opinion.

Regardless, remember to have your scooter pointing uphill. After all, both stands fold back, not forward.

Well stated and very true! Do what he says, folks!

[Cheshire]

All this talk of snapped brake levers from falling over is making me nervous. I keep meaning to add a small pair of vice grips to the pet carrier toolkit.

Excuse me if I sound dense (but I am). Do you mean that part of the brake lever breaks off, therefore you could put the vice grips on the remaining part and use the vice grips for a brake lever?

Never had to do it (knock on wood), but that's the trick I've read. Guessing it first try doesn't sound dense to me, btw.

[Skootz Kabootz]

The only good use for the sidestand I've found is to trip traffic lights that don't want to change. I have not once used it to hold up my scooter. Just seems too flimsy to me...

[Lostmycage]

The only good use for the side-stand I've found is to trip traffic lights that don't want to change. I have not once used it to hold up my scooter. Just seems too flimsy to me...

It's perfectly sturdy and works just fine (look-up SYM HD200 side-stand issues to see how bad it could be, lol). It's just that the center-stand is so ridiculously easy to deploy that comparatively there's no reason to use the side-stand.

I'll add an amendment to my usage. I use my side-stand every morning so I can hop off the bike and go close the gates to my back yard after I've cleared them.

One giant pitfall to the side-stand, though. If your idle isn't quite perfect and your clutch shoe springs are too soft, the high idle on first start up will be enough to turn the back wheel. This will be enough to make the Buddy hop off the side-stand and fall over. This is of course not an issue on the Symba (has a neutral) and the Blur seems to have stiffer shoe springs than the Buddy (or at least enough weight to negate this effect). Either way, be aware that the side stand while the bike is running is a risk. If you've ever observed the rear wheel spinning while the bike is at idle, DO NOT put it on the side stand if you're not on it. If you do, I personally won't give you too much sympathy. I'm a cold, cold person though; others might give you all the sympathy you need.

Keep in mind that I've got heavier than stock shoe springs on my Blur. A 2k idle doesn't pose any threat of turning the back wheel.


A general rule of thumb is that if the bike's off, use which ever you prefer. If the bike is on and you're not on it, use the center stand.

[Syd]

(look-up SYM HD200 side-stand issues to see how bad it could be, lol)

Nasty, rotten, ankle-bitin', look-at-it-wrong-and-it-WILL-fall-over, son of a witch, that HD200 side stand is.

[hal1]

It's just that it seems that I have to yank up pretty hard to get it on the center stand

[Lostmycage]

Nasty, rotten, ankle-bitin', look-at-it-wrong-and-it-WILL-fall-over, son of a witch, that HD200 side stand is.

Sorry Syd, didn't mean to troll up any personal demons. I've heard of some folks removing the side stand altogether and others replacing the spring with a softer one to tame that nasty problem.

Still, I'd wager that your recommendation is the center-stand, no?

[Syd]

Nasty, rotten, ankle-bitin', look-at-it-wrong-and-it-WILL-fall-over, son of a witch, that HD200 side stand is.

Sorry Syd, didn't mean to troll up any personal demons. I've heard of some folks removing the side stand altogether and others replacing the spring with a softer one to tame that nasty problem.

Still, I'd wager that your recommendation is the center-stand, no?

haha! Actually Jeff over at Scoot Dawg figured out a way to tame the beast; I'm just too lazy to do it. (That, and the fact that the HD's center stand is easier to use than the center stand on the Fiddle.)

[Lostmycage]

Jeff has done a lot to his HD200. That guy's creative streak is envious. Between his and your recommendations to the HD200, I was almost sold on one. The only thing that kept me off one was that to my wife, the Blur and HD200 were too similar, so I'd have to get rid of the Blur. I'll acknowledge that the SYM has more power and more comfort, but DAMN I don't think I could live with myself if I lost that handling and braking power. Seems I've found other means for longer range 2-wheel traveling, hehe.

[Animaetrix00]

I just gently hold the handles and stand on the lever for the center stand.. no yanking involved.

[ScootStevie]

I've never used the sidestand. Why when you have a stable center stand??

[DennisD]

It's just that it seems that I have to yank up pretty hard to get it on the center stand

Technique. Center stand always.
You shouldn't have to yank. Yanking is bad. Pull. As you pull up and back it will suddenly pop right up. Once done properly it will become easier and easier. Practice, grasshoppa, practice.

[B02S4]

...Regardless, remember to have your scooter pointing uphill. After all, both stands fold back, not forward.

Especially important with the sidestand. Some bikes will roll forward off a sidestand even on apparently "level" ground.

[narcoleptic]

It's just that it seems that I have to yank up pretty hard to get it on the center stand

Technique. Center stand always.
You shouldn't have to yank. Yanking is bad. Pull. As you pull up and back it will suddenly pop right up. Once done properly it will become easier and easier. Practice, grasshoppa, practice.

Exactly. I was having problems when I first got her, but still always used the center stand. Sean at Philly Scooters noticed me struggling to get it on the center stand and gave me some pointers.

This is how he explained it:
First, do not have your handlebars locked. Face the scooter with your left hand on the left grip and your right hand (underhanded) on your rear rack. Simultaneously, while stepping down on the stand, pull your left hand/handlebars back while lifting with your right hand. The right hand motion is almost like doing a bicep curl. Make sure when you are pressing down on the center stand that both parts of the fork that make up the stand are touching the ground. I was trying to do it by having both hands on the bars originally which made it way more difficult than it should be.

I went from constant struggling to doing it with ease within a day or two. Now it is second nature.

[Kurt]

Sometimes (when I'm showing off!) I get it up on the center stand without touching the scooter with my hands!

The secret is to use your weight to lever the scoot onto the center stand. This is easier to do on Buddy 125/150 scooters than on Buddy 50s due to the difference in the center stands. Many 50cc scooter center stands give you virtually no leverage at all!

Of course, if you want a challenge, get a Stella! The stock center stand (and there is no side stand!) requires you to block it in place with the side of your foot and pull the scooter backwards to get it up on the stand.

But that's Stella. She's special! (I avoid the whole issue with mine - I added a sidecar!)

[Dooglas]

It's just that it seems that I have to yank up pretty hard to get it on the center stand

The Buddy goes up on the centerstand quite easily. I've never ridden a Symba but the Honda Passport also goes onto its centerstand easily. Can't tell you whether this is a foible of the Symba or you are not using your weight correctly in rolling the scoot onto the centerstand. There have been some good posts with photos about the correct way to place your weight on the stand and easily move a scoot up onto it.

On my scoots, I virtually never use the sidestand. Very little reason to. The only application I can imagine is on smooth concrete next to a wall or something similar in your own basement or garage where it would be difficult to use the centerstand. (As an aside, my Vino has an interlock on the sidestand that cuts the ignition when it swings down. I believe I read somewhere that Vespas with sidestands do as well.)

[bluebuddygirl]

If you still are having trouble after reading the suggestions about how to get it on the center stand, ride the scooter to the dealer and have them show you how to do it. As it has already been stated, it is more about stepping down on the stand than it is pulling on the scooter. Hope you get it figured out, it is much sturdier.

[peabody99]

I used it one time on my previous Buddy. I had to jump of the bike for just a second. I left it running and it was not fully warmed up. Dumb move. the back wheel was still spinning and it fell over. No damge thankfully. I really see no reason to use it.

[Drumwoulf]

It's just that it seems that I have to yank up pretty hard to get it on the center stand

I don't know much about the Symba and it's centerstand, but for almost every other scooter your problem would be implicit in your question...

One doesn't "yank UP" on a scooter to get it on the centerstand.
Instead, one simply STEPS DOWN using one's weight on the centerstand's extended side tab, and the scooter pops right up.
-And the idea of an extremely lightweight scooter like the Symba being "hard" to get up on a centerstand strikes me as ludicrous!
What you do weigh, 75lbs?

The Buddy is a VERY easy scooter to get on it's centerstand; mine pops up so quick and easy I'm almost afraid it's gonna go flying backwards!

[hal1]

One doesn't "yank UP" on a scooter to get it on the centerstand Instead, one simply STEPS DOWN using one's weight on the centerstand's extended side tab, and the scooter pops right up.

Got it now. I wasn't pushing down on the center stand with my foot as I lifted up and back on the bike. - MUCH better now

[Syd]

...And the idea of an extremely lightweight scooter ...being "hard" to get up on a centerstand strikes me as ludicrous!

My sentiments exactly.

Then I got the Fiddle. Compared to the HD200, it's a bear getting it up on the Fiddle.

[Animaetrix00]

Got it now.

Hey hal1, have you tried standing on the center stand thing instead of yanking?

[hal1]

All better now

[brape]

I use my sidestand when I park at school because I can't get close enough to the guard rail to use my lock otherwise. (the motorcycle parking had a guard rail running along the back of it)

[Cykaca]

I've never used the sidestand. Why when you have a stable center stand??

Not trying to be argumentative,....But.
If you think of the side or center stand as the third leg of a stool or tripod, wouldn't the area covered by the triangle from the wheelbase and the side-stand be more stable than the area covered by the triangle made by the two legs of the center-stand and the front wheel?
You do have to factor all the the variables every time you park; incline,
surface, wind, ghosts.....
A bungee from the side-stand to the disk lock will keep it from folding accidentally, and I like to use one of those velcro straps around the rear brake lever to park-brake my back wheel.
If I'm wrong about the triangle thing please let me know.

[rajron]

The center stand is so easy to use, and so much more secure, I nearly always use the center stand and often forget about the side stand.

[iwabj]

oops

[Tenchi]

I got lazy a couple of times and used the side stand, then rode away with it down and nicked my leg! Center stand from now on. You can't move without putting it up.

[Dooglas]

wouldn't the area covered by the triangle from the wheelbase and the side-stand be more stable than the area covered by the triangle made by the two legs of the center-stand and the front wheel?

Experiment with both and see what you think. Most of us are talking experience rather than theory. One little bump or movement causes the sidestand to fold and down it goes. A small push from the rear wheel and down it goes. Any kind of soft surface - the sidestand sinks a little and down it goes. Ironically the light weight of the Buddy seems to make it more prone to a tip over on the sidestand than a bigger bike.

[TVB]

If I'm wrong about the triangle thing please let me know.

You're not wrong about the area of the triangle, but there's another relevant variable, which is center of gravity. When you use the side stand, you're moving the scooter's center of gravity to the left, so it's no longer lined up with the tires. This produces sideways pressure on the tires, which means you're relying on their traction to hold the scooter up. This gets worse if the side stand starts to sink into the ground. Furthermore, two of the points of that triangle are wheels which can easily roll, either from gravity or from a gentle nudge: two rolling points, combined with a third point which is designed to easily fold up when the other points move... adds up to a less stable system than a center stand with two immobile points on opposite sides of the center of gravity.

[Wheelz]

"Check out the big brain on TVB"
Seriously between this and the tachometer thread my head is spinnin

[Cheshire]

If I'm wrong about the triangle thing please let me know.

You're not wrong about the area of the triangle, but there's another relevant variable, which is center of gravity. When you use the side stand, you're moving the scooter's center of gravity to the left, so it's no longer lined up with the tires. This produces sideways pressure on the tires, which means you're relying on their traction to hold the scooter up. This gets worse if the side stand starts to sink into the ground. Furthermore, two of the points of that triangle are wheels which can easily roll, either from gravity or from a gentle nudge: two rolling points, combined with a third point which is designed to easily fold up when the other points move... adds up to a less stable system than a center stand with two immobile points on opposite sides of the center of gravity.

For me, this is actually an argument to use the side stand MORE. Being in the mountains, actual flat ground is rarely found, and seldom is it inclined in a direction that is ideal. There's one gas station I use regularly on my commute that the only flat area in the parking lot is a 2' wide corridor for the pumps. Using the center stand at that station is either asking for the bike to fall over or requires parking perpendicular to the pump facing it...which makes refueling infuriatingly complicated because if not parked exactly right the hose doesn't reach.

[ericalm]

I would encourage everyone to use the sidestand as often as possible for as long as possible and report the results here. This would help us in determining how much of a stiff wind it takes to blow a scoot off the sidestand as well as the likelihood of discovering your scooter on its side when you come out in the morning.

In all seriousness, the main reason most scoots don't come with a sidestand is it just isn't as stable. There may be circumstances in which a sidestand is more secure than the center stand but I don't think they're that common for most of us.

One thing that's useful: a puck for your stand. I have a plastic one I got when I finished the MSF, but people use everything from floor tiles to crushed cans. Works under both a sidestand or centerstand.

[Cheshire]

One thing that's useful: a puck for your stand. I have a plastic one I got when I finished the MSF, but people use everything from floor tiles to crushed cans. Works under both a sidestand or centerstand.

I'm always at least aware of what I'm parking on.

While I do use the side stand very often, I'm subconsciously paying attention to a lot of little details that are carry-overs from many other things. How I park, where I park, weather, time of day...which way the hill's sloping. Honestly, if someone were to ask me why I parked the way I did at any given moment I'd have to sit down and think about it for a bit, even though I'd have some really solid reasons. But yeah, the center stand is more stable 99% of the time. That other 1%...I just have a knack for finding. Even other scooter people in the area have told me that!

Now that I've spit in the face of Murphy's Law with my side stand....

[DennisD]

I've never used the sidestand. Why when you have a stable center stand??

Not trying to be argumentative,....But.
If you think of the side or center stand as the third leg of a stool or tripod, wouldn't the area covered by the triangle from the wheelbase and the side-stand be more stable than the area covered by the triangle made by the two legs of the center-stand and the front wheel?
You do have to factor all the the variables every time you park; incline,
surface, wind, ghosts.....
A bungee from the side-stand to the disk lock will keep it from folding accidentally, and I like to use one of those velcro straps around the rear brake lever to park-brake my back wheel.
If I'm wrong about the triangle thing please let me know.

The problem with the side stand/tripod theory is the other two legs of the triangle roll. The idea of bungees and velcro is a pain in the butt (to me) and makes the center stand even more desirable. Granted, the center stand doesn't support a lot of weight, but it is flimsy and short. If longer it would be at a greater angle and then I think it would be more useful. Now, the angle is so slight it seems a cross wind could blow it right over.

[KABarash]

I use my side stand in my garage, it's just easier, cause my garage is such a mess...... I put the stand down and then roll it in.
Last weekend I had it on the centerstand on grass, the scoot started leaning towards the right and after a while as if in slow motion, it just layed it self down, to take a nap!!

[iwabj]

oops

[DennisD]

This probably isn't fare because I have a greater advantage over most of you -- and that being my bicycle experience. When you regularly use the flimsy kickstand (side stand) on a 30 LB bicycle you develop a sense of what will work, and what will not.

One of the favored positions I can expect to find is an incline with gravity working opposite of the collapsed momentum. Of course if the incline is very severe it means working the geometry out to find the ideal gravity to anti collapse vector.

My Yoga experience helps too

You have kick stands on your bicycles??

[mandelia]

my coworker used to put his ducati up on its center stand, until one day it melted into the asphalt and the bike fell over. now he uses the side stand with a coaster. i suppose you could use coasters with the center stand, too, but it's much easier to position a coaster under the side stand.

[DennisD]

Maybe side stands should be on both sides. Pick and choose depending on terrain.

[Cheshire]

This probably isn't fare because I have a greater advantage over most of you -- and that being my bicycle experience. When you regularly use the flimsy kickstand (side stand) on a 30 LB bicycle you develop a sense of what will work, and what will not.

One of the favored positions I can expect to find is an incline with gravity working opposite of the collapsed momentum. Of course if the incline is very severe it means working the geometry out to find the ideal gravity to anti collapse vector.

My Yoga experience helps too

You have kick stands on your bicycles??

I always took mine off. Kept catching stuff on the trails. No, I wasn't a gram-counter.

[DennisD]

This probably isn't fare because I have a greater advantage over most of you -- and that being my bicycle experience. When you regularly use the flimsy kickstand (side stand) on a 30 LB bicycle you develop a sense of what will work, and what will not.

One of the favored positions I can expect to find is an incline with gravity working opposite of the collapsed momentum. Of course if the incline is very severe it means working the geometry out to find the ideal gravity to anti collapse vector.

My Yoga experience helps too

You have kick stands on your bicycles??

I always took mine off. Kept catching stuff on the trails. No, I wasn't a gram-counter.

Not a gram counter either. Always figured it was much cheaper for me to lose a pound than to shave a couple grams off the bike with expensive parts.
My bikes didn't come with stands and I didn't put any on, especially mountain bikes. Figured it was something else to fall on. Did lots of that in pursuit of fun.

[Irishrover]

I use my side stand in the garage also. I have also left the scoot running whilst on the side stand and with a combination of slight slope and gust of wind whilst closing the garage door, down it went, broken brake lever and cracked plastics now covered with stickers. Only myself to blame, lesson learnt.

I use my side stand in my garage, it's just easier, cause my garage is such a mess...... I put the stand down and then roll it in.
Last weekend I had it on the centerstand on grass, the scoot started leaning towards the right and after a while as if in slow motion, it just layed it self down, to take a nap!!

[iwabj]

oops

[ericalm]

my coworker used to put his ducati up on its center stand, until one day it melted into the asphalt and the bike fell over. now he uses the side stand with a coaster. i suppose you could use coasters with the center stand, too, but it's much easier to position a coaster under the side stand.

His bike would have fallen over if on the side stand under those same conditions.

I use the puck with my center stand when needed; it's not hard at all to position it.