Thinkin about getting a Buddy

[nateandcourt]

Hey everyone,

I just moved to Tampa from a little north of new orleans, and I left my v-star classic behind.

I am looking at either one of the internationals or a Blackjack. It is my understanding that the shocks, (optional) exhaust, and brakes are upgraded on the BJ but is the bike mechanically different?

Other than the aforementioned differences will I miss out on actual performance if I choose the Int. over the BJ?

I think I am over motorcycles. I enjoyed it, but I am more of a scooter person. I have had 4 other scoots, but this would be my first Genuine.

[broke]

If you want bang-for-your-buck, I'd suggest a Buddy 125. For stock bikes the accel. and top-speed is nearly identical between 125, 150-Intl, and BlackJack.

If you want pure-awesomeness-for-your-buck, go with the Black Jack. The flat black exterior and Prima sound is pretty cool for the scooter scene.

Just my opinion.

[GrittyTacoman]

As a proud owner of an International, I'd say if their two-tone beauty makes your heart go, "Oui, si or si," then your decision has been made.

I'm curious about what the shocks feel like on the BJ, but the shocks on mine have been fine.

[jfrost2]

The prima pipe actually comes on the blackjack standard, but many showrooms do not install it on until after sale because of it being a "off road use only pipe"

The bike is mechanically the same as the 125/150 bassically. There are minor differences, but everything fits everything in most cases (accessories, body panels, most performance parts besides bore kits)

[iwabj]

oops

[nateandcourt]

Well then, its down to style. I don't plan on doing any dramatic mods. Plan being the keyword there. We all know how that turns out.


Thanks for the advice.

I will be doing a little more research, after all I can only choose one.
Unless I can convince the wife to get one and "borrow" it.

[jfrost2]

Internationals and black jacks both have oil coolers. They're the same bike, just one is modded lightly and painted flat black, plus a few other minor differences.

The picture you posted was a early genuine prototype of a saint tropez 125. They never came into existence since they ended up releasing them as 150cc bikes which did include a different muffler style and oil cooler.

[rayk]

Internationals and black jacks both have oil coolers. They're the same bike, just one is modded lightly and painted flat black, plus a few other minor differences.

The picture you posted was a early genuine prototype of a saint tropez 125. They never came into existence since they ended up releasing them as 150cc bikes which did include a different muffler style and oil cooler.

+1 You beat me to it.

[carreybat]

do it

do it

do it

do it

do it

do it

do it

do it

do it!!!

[broke]

Internationals and black jacks both have oil coolers.

What is the intended advantage of the heat-sink / cooler on the motor oil system? I am assuming that it should allow the bike to run hotter / longer, but I've ridden all day on my 125 without a heat-sink and didn't have any issues that I'm aware of. I've read of many people that suggest giving the bike a cool down period once per fill-up when marathon riding, but I have NOT read anyone state that this "cool down" frequency is different for a bike with or without a motor-oil cooler.

[jfrost2]

It's a chunk of aluminum designed to help keep the oil cool. There is a advantage with the oil cooler because it does help the bike run better in extreme heat. A few members have noted that when riding with others, the 150's performed better at high speeds and high outdoor temps.

Majority of the time, the 125 will ride flawlessly without any issue, but it's air cooled, very very long rides, the bike should cool down and be shut off while getting gas. 15-20 minute cool down time is enough.

[[email protected]]

you should get a buddy

[iwabj]

oops

[fobbish]

don't forget that the Black Jack doesn't have two-up seating.

Personally, I would get a black jack and swap out the seat for a buddy 125 seat. I know a lot of people on this forum would jump on the opportunity to swap for a BJ seat for free.

[Tocsik]

Hey everyone,

I just moved to Tampa from a little north of new orleans, and I left my v-star classic behind.

I am looking at either one of the internationals or a Blackjack. It is my understanding that the shocks, (optional) exhaust, and brakes are upgraded on the BJ but is the bike mechanically different?

Other than the aforementioned differences will I miss out on actual performance if I choose the Int. over the BJ?

I think I am over motorcycles. I enjoyed it, but I am more of a scooter person. I have had 4 other scoots, but this would be my first Genuine.

Hey nateandcourt, I have had my Pamplona for a year now but recently rode the Blackjack at my dealer while my scooter was getting serviced. What I noticed about the BJ is the suspension is far superior to my stock 150. I also personally liked the seat and found it more comfortable - others have disagreed.

The BJ also has a better rear shock, better front brake, upgraded variator (NCY, I think) and the Prima pipe. I have added the pipe and Dr. Pulley variator with sliders plus some clutch spring modifications and I'm very happy with my scooter right now. If I were buying new, I would get the BJ since it already has most of the mods that experts on this forum have found to be loaded with awesomeness; plus, I dig the flat black paint.

In the end, the cost of adding the same upgrades that the BJ has to a stock Int'l would be much higher than the price difference between the two OTD.

One note, the 125 does have an advantage over the 150's for off the line performance. It has to do with either the crankshaft or the cam; I can't remember which but Kaos, Lostmycage, Djelliot, jfrost2 and many other excellent resources probably know everything about this. These guys can "field strip" a Buddy (ooh, double entendre subject) and put it back together just for fun while blindfolded and drunk.

Just go to a dealer and ride a 125, a stock 150 and the Blackjack. Let your heart talk to your wallet. All 3 are awesome scooters.

[jfrost2]

The variator on the black jack isnt a NCY. I think it just has different weight rollers inside the stock variator.

I've helped a few black ajck owners with Dr pulley mods, if they had NCY in there stock, it would be pointless to change out the variator. the NCY and Dr pulley are very similar in terms of quality and performance, but just difference science behind the DR pulley.

All of the suspension mods can also be done to the 125 and 150 internationals. They're all the same frame, and the majority of the motors are the same. (transmission, exhaust header)

[iwabj]

oops

[Lostmycage]

Boy do I have a place for you!

Check out the MB Guides/FAQ section on the main page. I make people click through it because there's other stuff there that can be neat little side-tracks.

If you have more questions, ask away, but shoot me a PM so that I see them. If we can get a good concise answer for them, I'll add it into the FAQs.

The difference is the suspension paint and the exhaust. I'm not sure how into the cruiser lifestyle you were, but you might actually appreciate the quietness of the stock exhaust on the Buddy.

If you think the suspension is something you'll look to do later on (I've heard good things about it) and the paint scheme isn't an issue, go for the Blackjack. You'll get two exhausts to choose from, the expensive upgrades (upgrades that are actually worth doing) are already paid for and done, and you'll have a nice neat canvas for making it your own. Plus, if you decide you want the "original" style seat, I'm sure you could manage a trade with one of the hundreds of Buddy riders with that style. Also consider that paint is stupid easy on these things. Get some plastic specific paint and do the prep work right and you'll have a sweet custom scoot that you can add to the picture gallery.


Welcome to MB!

[Dooglas]

One note, the 125 does have an advantage over the 150's for off the line performance. It has to do with either the crankshaft or the cam; I can't remember which but Kaos, Lostmycage, Djelliot, jfrost2 and many other excellent resources probably know everything about this. These guys can "field strip" a Buddy (ooh, double entendre subject) and put it back together just for fun while blindfolded and drunk.

Hey, now. I'm not sure jfrost2 is old enough to be drunk (legally), but he is a solid Buddy rider.

[nateandcourt]

Don't get me wrong, I loved my v-star, But I grew up on a Honda elite 80.
Got it at the end of jr. high for 75 bucks, drove it throughout high school.
It finally gave way after I jumped a dirt ramp... All of my cousins are into motocross, a few dares later, weeeee... We put the motor on a reverse trike gocart. I got a few other scooters before I got the cruiser. The cruiser was more of an experiment on my part. It was a good fit for my frame but it was too big for my taste.


I would say I don't care about how fast I can hit top speed as much as being able to cruise at a relatively decent top speed consistently.

[BuddyRaton]

Well then, its down to style. I don't plan on doing any dramatic mods. Plan being the keyword there. We all know how that turns out.


Thanks for the advice.

I will be doing a little more research, after all I can only choose one.
Unless I can convince the wife to get one and "borrow" it.

If I was in the market for another Buddy I would be looking used. There have been some fantastic deals on low mileage units. Check the classified section of the forum

[nateandcourt]

if I do get the blackjack I am debadging, getting all the black accessories for it, and driving around in this.

http://www.universaldesigns.ca/UDR/store/TDK/TDK.html
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[TVB]

I'll see you at the Hall of the Justice League.

[Kaos]

...One note, the 125 does have an advantage over the 150's for off the line performance. It has to do with either the crankshaft or the cam; I can't remember which but Kaos, Lostmycage, Djelliot, jfrost2 and many other excellent resources probably know everything about this. These guys can "field strip" a Buddy (ooh, double entendre subject) and put it back together just for fun while blindfolded and drunk...

Its the crank. The 125's crank is longer, which means the 125 actually has more torque, though the Blackjack will have more speed in the top end.