why you wear protective gear

jgalar · Post by **jgalar** » Thu May 17, 2007 2:57 pm

Story and pics of a very pretty young lady with severe road rash.
This will make you want to wear your gear...
http://www.speedfreakinc.com/content/ar ... queen.html

AxeYrCat · Post by **AxeYrCat** » Thu May 17, 2007 3:34 pm

Wow... It was really hard to read all of that.

I'm anal about safety gear as is, but I think even moreso now...

Tbone · Post by **Tbone** » Thu May 17, 2007 3:44 pm

My wife thinks I'm going a little overboard with my safety gear. She's like "You're riding a scooter, your not going to be going more than 35mph..."

My response is, falling at 35mph is hitting the ground with more force and momentum than 35mph (law of physics stuff I recall form high school and college) I don't care if I look a bit ridiculous looking like a street racer on a scooter! I'd rather be a bit more cautious than sorry later!

My mom FREAKED out on mother's day when I told her I'd be getting a scooter soon and it will be my main mode of transport on a daily basis. She used to be a nurse and dealt with a TON of head trauma and burns. Worst case she dealt with was a guy's gas tank exploding under his crotch!!!

After her initial shock, her first reply was: "Get THE BEST brain bucket you can find son!!!" I talked with her about all the safety gear I'm getting and plan on getting later (When the CA weather turns "bad" I'll be getting some riding pants and other rain gear)

*isn't it funny the stuff you do when an adult that your parents never let you do?! We weren't allowed to ride/own motorbikes due to her nurse career and we weren't allowed to go shooting/using my father's guns. My brother is a gun freak and I'm getting a scoot!

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Thu May 17, 2007 3:46 pm

I think I saw this months ago.

If I remember the story right (I didn't read the link since I am eating lunch), it is also why you pay attention to what is going on around you and hold on tight to something solid when you're riding, not to mention going fast. If I recall, the bike didn't crash, she was riding b**** and got blown off the back of it.

It's a good cautionary tale for the right gear, whatever the cause of her contact with the road. I hope she recovers as well as you can from it.

Be careful out there.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Thu May 17, 2007 3:47 pm

AxeYrCat wrote:Wow... It was really hard to read all of that.

literally! could the text be any smaller? : )

Bb.

JeremyZ · Post by **JeremyZ** » Thu May 17, 2007 4:03 pm

Tbone wrote:*isn't it funny the stuff you do when an adult that your parents never let you do?! We weren't allowed to ride/own motorbikes due to her nurse career and we weren't allowed to go shooting/using my father's guns. My brother is a gun freak and I'm getting a scoot!

It IS funny. I had a stepmom that was anti-gun & violence. She wouldn't let us watch The Transformers or G.I. Joe when we were kids. It was all my dad could to to have her let us shoot air rifles (supervised) in the basement. My mom always said: "Not as long as you're under MY roof, Bud!" When I suggested I'd like to save up and get a motorcycle.
Her whole side of the family, in fact, was convinced I would kill myself and was VERY upset when I got my first motorcycle.

Now I have a fast motorcycle, and a nice little collection of guns. (though I just sold two of the nicest ones to pay for the Buddy!) They're not concerned about me scooting at ALL.

codemonkey · Post by **codemonkey** » Thu May 17, 2007 4:38 pm

You only need to protect the skin you want to keep. I'd like to keep all of it, thanks.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu May 17, 2007 4:47 pm

Tbone wrote:My wife thinks I'm going a little overboard with my safety gear. She's like "You're riding a scooter, your not going to be going more than 35mph..."

My response is, falling at 35mph is hitting the ground with more force and momentum than 35mph (law of physics stuff I recall form high school and college) I don't care if I look a bit ridiculous looking like a street racer on a scooter! I'd rather be a bit more cautious than sorry later!

You're right. I flew off the front of a Buddy at around 35mph (well, before I slammed the brakes too hard so I could avoid an SUV) and was injured, even with an armored jacket on. It's certainly fast enough to kill a rider, should they fall a certain way.

Kevin K · Post by **Kevin K** » Thu May 17, 2007 4:52 pm

Let's just say that one night in the Burn Unit of the ICU will cost far more than even the most expensive gear.

I broke down and bought an armored mesh jacket over the winter. While I seldom ride without a jacket, now I don't have an excuse not to.
-K (not trying to preach)

codemonkey · Post by **codemonkey** » Thu May 17, 2007 4:52 pm

I fell off at about 20 mph the first time I got on my Buddy. I only had a helmet on. It took a ton of skin off my right palm, elbow and knee (luckily the only scar is on my knee) and bruised me up pretty badly. I can't even imagine wiping out at 35 or 40, let alone 55 or 60 or faster without gear on.

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Thu May 17, 2007 5:36 pm

Tbone wrote:My wife thinks I'm going a little overboard with my safety gear. She's like "You're riding a scooter, your not going to be going more than 35mph..."

I think I read that most MC fatalities happen at 30mph or less.

Tbone · Post by **Tbone** » Thu May 17, 2007 5:39 pm

And within 5 miles of the home! My daily commute will be 6

Post by **ericalm** » Thu May 17, 2007 5:48 pm

Tbone wrote:And within 5 miles of the home! My daily commute will be 6

That's one of those oft-cited stats that can be misconstrued...

I mention this because I've talked to people who flipped this statistic and took it to mean they were less likely to have a crash once they were a certain number of miles away from home. Which is just kind of ridiculous!

You're not more likely to have a crash within 5 miles of home; since you'll always be leaving from home, you're just going to be within that radius more often than any other place. The same is true for your workplace or anywhere else you go on a regular basis.

Tbone · Post by **Tbone** » Thu May 17, 2007 6:34 pm

I personally think there is a bit of truth to the 5 miles radius. Most of my accidents happened within 5 miles of where I lived or where I was headed to.

I "think" at least for me it's because you kind of go on auto pilot mentally when it's the same commute, same route, same neighborhood, same {insert something here} that you've done X+1 million amounts of times before with no problems.

So you mentally slack off and don't really pay attention as much. Then that one idiot blows the stop sign, you blow the stop sign or whatever.

They are called accidents, it's not like anyone intended to get into a wreck!

Just my feeble musings on it.

Back to the story form the original post, I must be getting older because that print was ridiculous to read for me as well! Also, it didn't list what if any protective gear she was wearing when blown off the bike. There was mention of sneakers I believe and pants...can't recall. Don't really want to reread it!

Roose Hurro · Post by **Roose Hurro** » Thu May 17, 2007 8:59 pm

"I had shed my prescription glasses for a pair of sunglasses, my cowboy hat for an oversized helmet, and quickly thrown on a pair of capri jeans, tennis shoes, and a sweatshirt over my bikini."

In other words, inadequate protection!

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AxeYrCat · Post by **AxeYrCat** » Thu May 17, 2007 9:43 pm

Roose Hurro wrote:
In other words, inadequate protection!
Umm... Yeah.

That was a lot of the point of the story.

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Fri May 18, 2007 3:18 am

One of the more common mishaps, especially for new riders, is falling to one side while stopped. It happens lots of different ways but it usually happens at least once to most riders. At 0 miles per hour, you can easily suffer a concussion or worse if you're not wearing a helmet and you bounce your head off the pavement. If you're not wearing boots or gloves, you're almost certainly going to lose skin on your hands and feet. Speed does matter in a wreck but it's not the only factor.

I refuse to preach to people about this. If you know the risks and you're okay with riding sans gear, fine. The thing that worries me is the new or uninformed rider who doesn't think he or she needs gear. I'm often tempted to stop and talk to these folks but you just never know how that will go over, so I don't do it and never will. I know how I'd react if someone pulled up to me and advised me that I was overdoing my gear.

BoneGirl · Post by **BoneGirl** » Fri May 18, 2007 3:41 am

As summer approaches it gets really hard to "suit up" but every time I read a story such as this it re-enforces my reasons for doing so. I bought an armored mesh jacket recently for those dog days of summer. It is very hard not to wear shorts and a t-shirt on these days, I must admit. But deep down I know those crashes can happen to anyone at anytime and don't want to test fate on that particular day I chose not to gear up. Thanks for sharing the story.

Roose Hurro · Post by **Roose Hurro** » Fri May 18, 2007 4:49 am

If she'd been wearing a wind-breaker, perhaps she wouldn't have been blown off the bike...

Still, incredibly lucky!

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Post by **ericalm** » Fri May 18, 2007 5:17 am

gt1000 wrote:I refuse to preach to people about this. If you know the risks and you're okay with riding sans gear, fine. The thing that worries me is the new or uninformed rider who doesn't think he or she needs gear. I'm often tempted to stop and talk to these folks but you just never know how that will go over, so I don't do it and never will. I know how I'd react if someone pulled up to me and advised me that I was overdoing my gear.

I'll confess that when I bought my scoot, I had given very little consideration to the need for and expense of any gear aside from a half helmet. I think this is particularly problematic with scooters, because many of us have romantic visions of starlets with nothing but scarves around their heads and black-suited Mods in their parkas and (maybe) porkpie hats. And, as I've said before, many others perceive the scoot as a toy.

But it was the honest and factual information that taught me otherwise, not anyone preaching to me or telling me outright what I should do... I would not have reacted well to that.

ScooterN2 · Post by **ScooterN2** » Fri May 18, 2007 5:47 pm

Portecting our bodies is the number 1 reason for protective gear, but good gear can make for a more comfortable ride, esp when cold (I know, I know, sitting a long stop light on a very hot day with safety gear does not actually = comfort)

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Sun May 20, 2007 10:10 pm

I read this article and promised myself to always gear up. Four hours later I laid my SI down at 40 mph. My knees are scraped but everything else is fine even after sliding a fair distance on my Corazzo jacket.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon May 21, 2007 5:30 am

JettaKnight wrote:I read this article and promised myself to always gear up. Four hours later I laid my SI down at 40 mph. My knees are scraped but everything else is fine even after sliding a fair distance on my Corazzo jacket.

Damn! Good to hear you're okay, and chalk another one up for the Corazzos. How's the SI?

JeremyZ · Post by **JeremyZ** » Mon May 21, 2007 2:55 pm

I heard a story once that really reinforced it for me. I don't know if it was true, but it sounds stupid & tragic enough to be true.

A guy (experienced rider) and his girlfriend/wife were out riding their motorcycle. She was on the back, neither of them had helmets.

At a stoplight, someone rear-ended them; just a tap. The lady fell off the back, knocked her head on the pavement hard and died. 0 mph, and not the rider's fault. Short of a fanatic watching of the mirrors and always being in gear and ready to shoot out, there was nothing that could have prevented it. (aside from wearing a helmet)

Not wearing a jacket & pants is one thing. Having your skin ground off is painful, but it will grow back eventually. Having your head damaged is usually irreparable. If nothing else, wear a full-face helmet & gloves. You're taking a risk, but at least minimizing the most crippling & life-threatening part.

Another one; this one is true. My wife was taking care of an older lady with diabetes. She was also taking care of her son, who lived with her. The son is something like 40 years old, but cannot take care of himself. Why? Because he was riding a motorcycle without a helmet and was on some drug or another and hit a tree. Nearly knocked his brains out. Luckily, the brain stayed in the head, but it is damaged now, and he has the intellect of a 3rd grader for life. But at least he was cool!

A favorite quote on the matter: "I'd rather sweat than bleed."

captaintg · Post by **captaintg** » Mon May 21, 2007 4:21 pm

More fodder:

I used to work on a yacht in New England, and one of the owners was a neurosurgeon at Mass. Gen. in Boston. I don't remember how the conversation came up, but she told me she didn't think motorcycle riders should wear ANY safety gear. She had seen too many cases where a rider crashed, but the safety gear "saved" them and they are vegetables for life (rather than...). She was a cynical person in general, but I think her message was that bikes are dangerous, any way you look at it. She also saw the worst of the worst accidents, so her view was skewed. Just an interesting anecdote from a unique perspective.

BoneGirl · Post by **BoneGirl** » Mon May 21, 2007 4:33 pm

[quote="captaintg"]she told me she didn't think motorcycle riders should wear ANY safety gear. She had seen too many cases where a rider crashed, but the safety gear "saved" them and they are vegetables for life (rather than...).quote]

I have heard the same thing...wear the gear and be crippled or still break your neck with a full faced helmet or die and not live your life in a chair or a vegetative state. I'll take my chances with all the gear.

jfw18338 · Post by **jfw18338** » Mon May 21, 2007 4:44 pm

Do jeans offer acceptable protection, or do you need something else?

Thanks, I'm new...

captaintg · Post by **captaintg** » Mon May 21, 2007 4:55 pm

"acceptable" is relative. Jeans are better than shorts or regular khakis, but armored pants are better than jeans. Personally, I have never seen a scooterist wearing armored pants, but to each their own.

scooterstud · Post by **scooterstud** » Mon May 21, 2007 5:18 pm

One thing I do want to point out here is that we are not motorcyclists. I know its still dangerous, but perhaps there is a difference between driving 35-45 on average in town vs driving 55-75 on the highway. I'd venture to guess there is even a difference in the mentality as I see many motorcyclists do the stupidest things as they zoom ahead of all traffic just because they can.

I have NO evidence to back this up, but I would bet that scooterists get into less accidents than motorcyclists and that they have less serious injuries/fatalities. This does not mean that you can't get killed or become a vegetable on a scooter, just that I am not sure that every motorcycle statistic applies to your average scooterist.

I would and did buy a scooter, I would never buy a motorbike. We do both ride on two wheels, and in a lot of instances the techniques and safety issues are the same, however I feel that sometimes people lump scooters in with motorcycles, and I am not sure that they are really the same thing when it come to some of these issues. Just my 2 cents.[/code]

Tazio · Post by **Tazio** » Mon May 21, 2007 5:22 pm

I read this discussion previously but didn't heed. I now look almost like the young lady in the pictures. I had on jean pants and shirt, leather gloves, armored boots, 3/4 helmet with full face screen. I will not ride again until I have a full face helmet (on order), armored pants, jacket and gloves.

I was riding slow, 25 mph, in a residential area on a through street at an intersection and woke up in an ambulance. I think I took evasive action to avoid collision with a vehicle that pulled out in front of me. Buddy only has a few scrapes and minor injuries, so I must have almost stopped before I went down.

I will write a more complete report, when I have more information and this cast is off, so I can type with more than one finger. I did the number on both knees, both arms, both shoulders, chin and upper lip and broke a bone in my hand.

Be very careful out there!

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Mon May 21, 2007 5:47 pm

BoneGirl wrote:
captaintg wrote:she told me she didn't think motorcycle riders should wear ANY safety gear. She had seen too many cases where a rider crashed, but the safety gear "saved" them and they are vegetables for life (rather than...).
I have heard the same thing...wear the gear and be crippled or still break your neck with a full faced helmet or die and not live your life in a chair or a vegetative state. I'll take my chances with all the gear.

I really take issue with how so many people act like "being in a chair" is worse than death. To me, it seems like a sad, limited view of life. There are many disabled people who have done far more with their lives (both physically and otherwise) than I probably ever will with all of my fully functioning body and mind. In the words of the character Tyrion Lannister, (written by George R. R. Martin), "Speaking for the grotesques, I beg to differ. Death is so terribly final, while life is full of possibilities."

I agree, I'll take my chances with the gear. I suspect the injury that results in a vegetative state rather than killing you is a very very slim possibility. If a bicycle helmet can keep a guy from having anything more than a concussion when his head is run over by a truck, I'm voting that helmet-wearing is worth that minuscule chance that it will keep me alive when I might not have wanted it to.

And the injuries that kill are often the combination of multiple injuries that together the body can't overcome. So... let's say I'm headed for a catastrophic accident: if I reduce the amount of injury in as many places on my body as possible, the more my body will be able to focus on and hopefully overcome those injuries that are the most serious.

[edited to fix quotes/coding]

codemonkey · Post by **codemonkey** » Mon May 21, 2007 5:59 pm

captaintg wrote:"acceptable" is relative. Jeans are better than shorts or regular khakis, but armored pants are better than jeans. Personally, I have never seen a scooterist wearing armored pants, but to each their own.

I wear armored pants

I'd like to keep my legs looking nice in the old bikini. I'm kinda vain that way.

captaintg · Post by **captaintg** » Mon May 21, 2007 6:29 pm

I wear most of the gear, most of the time. But 90% of my rides are less than two miles, and I spend more time gearing up/gearing down than I do actually riding.

I acknowledge and accept the risk I take when I do anything I do- I rock climb, ski, mountain bike, etc. Scootering, in my mind, will never be nearly as safe as driving a car (even with all the safety gear), and that's ok with me.

I mentioned the neurosurgeon's comments as an anecdote. She didn't influence my decisions on how to live my life. But it was one more perspective that I hadn't previously considered. And she was an "expert," not just someone who heard something one time.

I fully support the idea of wearing all the protective gear. But I don't have a problem with people who choose not to wear it. We make our own decisions, and we deal with the consequences.

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Mon May 21, 2007 7:23 pm

Glad you're OK Tazio. Hope you recover quickly!

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Mon May 21, 2007 7:45 pm

scooterstud wrote:One thing I do want to point out here is that we are not motorcyclists. I know its still dangerous, but perhaps there is a difference between driving 35-45 on average in town vs driving 55-75 on the highway. I'd venture to guess there is even a difference in the mentality as I see many motorcyclists do the stupidest things as they zoom ahead of all traffic just because they can. ...

I feel that sometimes people lump scooters in with motorcycles, and I am not sure that they are really the same thing when it come to some of these issues. Just my 2 cents.

Yeah, when I first started looking at scooters/riding, I really wanted to believe that scooters were safer, too. I now think I was being unrealistic/naive. There are reasons that for insurance and license we are treated as motorcyclists.

I think the only real difference is that most people do not react to a MC with a smile and curiosity. But I'm not sure that plays out to added safety on the road. As there are images of scooters jumping ramps and doing wheelies, posts about lane splitting and racing... mentality is an individual thing, not necessarily a scooter vs. MC thing. (As much is I like to believe buying a scooter means I'm a pretty smart cookie

...it doesn't quite work that way.)

Unfortunately, scooters and MCs have a lot in common when it comes to accidents, and mentality has little to do with it:

The number 1 cause of a crash is a vehicle turning left in front of the rider. (Being smaller and often treated as bicycles with motors, scooters may fair even worse at this.... Being orange, might help.

)

From the Hurt Report on accidents: The median pre-crash speed was 29.8 mph, the median crash speed was 21.5 mph.

Here's a summary of the Hurt Report.

scooterstud · Post by **scooterstud** » Mon May 21, 2007 7:58 pm

Yeah, when I first started looking at scooters/riding, I really wanted to believe that scooters were safer, too. I now think I was being unrealistic/naive. There are reasons that for insurance and license we are treated as motorcyclists.

I think the only real difference is that most people do not react to a MC with a smile and curiosity. But I'm not sure that plays out to added safety on the road. As there are images of scooters jumping ramps and doing wheelies, posts about lane splitting and racing... mentality is an individual thing, not necessarily a scooter vs. MC thing. (As much is I like to believe buying a scooter means I'm a pretty smart cookie ...it doesn't quite work that way.)

Unfortunately, scooters and MCs have a lot in common when it comes to accidents, and mentality has little to do with it:

The number 1 cause of a crash is a vehicle turning left in front of the rider. (Being smaller and often treated as bicycles with motors, scooters may fair even worse at this.... Being orange, might help. )

From the Hurt Report on accidents: The median pre-crash speed was 29.8 mph, the median crash speed was 21.5 mph.

Here's a summary of the Hurt Report.

Thanks for the info. Sounds like riding a scooter is pretty darn dangerous. I know driving a car is the most dangerous thing that most people will do in their lives, and most people don't think twice about jumping in the car for anything and everything. I don't really like cars, and so I was hoping that scootering would be an anticdote to this. All this talk about whiping out, not if but when, etc has kind of got me spooked as a new rider, which is good, but its to the point if I am not even sure I want to continue doing it. For me it was the mode of transportation that seemed to make the most sense. I knew accidents could happen, but from the sounds of it its not accidents can happen but accidents will happen.

I'm going to have to think long and hard about this as maybe walking and taking public transportation (as much of a pain as it is in my city) is preferable to ending up as a vegetable, with scars over most of my body, or having to scour the internet everytime I want a new jacket or pants. I really love my buddy and I've already invested quite a bit in trying to make this work and to learn how to operate it properly and carefully, but that is part of the problem for me. This has kind of taken over my life and my wallet for the past week or so and I want it to stop, yet I don't feel safe going to work yet with all these accident posts. It's a good thing, its a reality check and a reminder of the risk I am taking when I get on buddy, but maybe that risk is just too high for me right now.

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Mon May 21, 2007 8:14 pm

ericalm wrote:
JettaKnight wrote:I read this article and promised myself to always gear up. Four hours later I laid my SI down at 40 mph. My knees are scraped but everything else is fine even after sliding a fair distance on my Corazzo jacket.
Damn! Good to hear you're okay, and chalk another one up for the Corazzos. How's the SI?

The insurance adjuster was out today. The headset is worst, but mostly flesh wounds (on both of us).

codemonkey · Post by **codemonkey** » Mon May 21, 2007 8:38 pm

scooterstud wrote:
Yeah, when I first started looking at scooters/riding, I really wanted to believe that scooters were safer, too. I now think I was being unrealistic/naive. There are reasons that for insurance and license we are treated as motorcyclists.

I think the only real difference is that most people do not react to a MC with a smile and curiosity. But I'm not sure that plays out to added safety on the road. As there are images of scooters jumping ramps and doing wheelies, posts about lane splitting and racing... mentality is an individual thing, not necessarily a scooter vs. MC thing. (As much is I like to believe buying a scooter means I'm a pretty smart cookie ...it doesn't quite work that way.)

Unfortunately, scooters and MCs have a lot in common when it comes to accidents, and mentality has little to do with it:

The number 1 cause of a crash is a vehicle turning left in front of the rider. (Being smaller and often treated as bicycles with motors, scooters may fair even worse at this.... Being orange, might help. )

From the Hurt Report on accidents: The median pre-crash speed was 29.8 mph, the median crash speed was 21.5 mph.

Here's a summary of the Hurt Report.
Thanks for the info. Sounds like riding a scooter is pretty darn dangerous. I know driving a car is the most dangerous thing that most people will do in their lives, and most people don't think twice about jumping in the car for anything and everything. I don't really like cars, and so I was hoping that scootering would be an anticdote to this. All this talk about whiping out, not if but when, etc has kind of got me spooked as a new rider, which is good, but its to the point if I am not even sure I want to continue doing it. For me it was the mode of transportation that seemed to make the most sense. I knew accidents could happen, but from the sounds of it its not accidents can happen but accidents will happen.

I'm going to have to think long and hard about this as maybe walking and taking public transportation (as much of a pain as it is in my city) is preferable to ending up as a vegetable, with scars over most of my body, or having to scour the internet everytime I want a new jacket or pants. I really love my buddy and I've already invested quite a bit in trying to make this work and to learn how to operate it properly and carefully, but that is part of the problem for me. This has kind of taken over my life and my wallet for the past week or so and I want it to stop, yet I don't feel safe going to work yet with all these accident posts. It's a good thing, its a reality check and a reminder of the risk I am taking when I get on buddy, but maybe that risk is just too high for me right now.

Seriously, don't let it spook you too much. You can minimize your risk by wearing gear, being cautious, making yourself visible and getting trained (the MFC Basic Rider Course is FUN and completely worth it.) The more you ride, the better rider you'll be. Scooters/Motorcycles even have several advantages over cars when it comes to avoiding accidents. Since you're smaller and more manueverable than a car, you can get out of the way of danger easier than a car. You also have fewer blind spots (even with a FF helmet) and you can stop more quickly. One of the Rider Coaches in my BRC class said that he once was riding behind a truck and a refridgerator fell out and he was able to swerve out of the way. The driver of the car that was behind him died because he couldn't get out of the way fast enough.

So sure, scooters and motorcycles are dangerous but cars are also dangerous. Your gear won't save you every time, but neither will all the seatbelts, airbags and rollcages in the world. It's impossible to eliminate all risk from your life. You just have to do your best to minimize your risk.

Tazio · Post by **Tazio** » Mon May 21, 2007 9:55 pm

Scooterstud,

Please don't stop riding. I don't want to scare anyone away from something as much fun as scootering. Just be aware and with protective gear you will be fine. Take the MSF course when you can. I still have to go back to finish up since I couldn't make the last lesson.

The biggest problem we have is most drivers just don't see us. Try to have as much visibility as possible.

azpenguin · Post by **azpenguin** » Tue May 22, 2007 4:29 am

This, as with anything in life, comes with a certain amount of risk. And as with anything alse in life, everyone has to determine what level of risk they are comfortable with. I don't ever try to persuade someone to ride a motorcycle or scooter if they think it's too dnagerous. If they tell me not to because it's too dangerous, I tell them that I know the risks, that I accept them, and that I do everything necessary to reduce them.

BTW, want to make scootering a LOT safer? Simply follow this rule - no riding after even one drink. Nearly half of motorcycle fatalities involve an impaired rider.

As for helmets, I have heard people saying that helmets can cause neck injuries. This has never been substantiated, however, as a friend put it, "Corpses don't complain about stiff necks."

scullyfu · Post by **scullyfu** » Tue May 22, 2007 12:57 pm

just like the safety class brochure suggests, when talking about why people 'fail' the class, perhaps you aren't ready to ride yet, for whatever reason. maybe you're nervous, perhaps even scared, tired or not feeling well. it doesn't make you a bad person or a loser. so, do what feels best and right for 'you' and hang what others may think of your decision.

more importantly, use this as an opportunity to learn a life lesson: investigate something thoroughly before making major expenditures.

pesqueeb · Post by **pesqueeb** » Tue May 22, 2007 2:30 pm

Tazio wrote:Scooterstud,

Please don't stop riding. I don't want to scare anyone away from something as much fun as scootering. Just be aware and with protective gear you will be fine. Take the MSF course when you can. I still have to go back to finish up since I couldn't make the last lesson.

The biggest problem we have is most drivers just don't see us. Try to have as much visibility as possible.

I agree completely, don't get scared off the scooter before you really get on it. I recently had a very serious accident, very similar to Tazio, that reads like every "statistic" quoted in this thread. Less than 35 MPH, less than a mile from home. (damn you Starbucks!) I remember leaving the house, and like Tazio, my next memory is a very hazy one in the back of the ambulance, then nothing for the next month due to the medical coma I was placed in. I won't go into Injury details, as they are many and varied and have MUCH more to do with the fact that the cager who hit me ran me over, not the fact that she hit me. The point I guess is that I was fully decked out, helmet, gloves, bright orange reflective jacket, pants, etc. I'll be the first to admit, yes it kind of looks retarded on a scooter, but I'm very gratefull to have had it all on. My Helmet saved my life, and I had no road rash except for a small spot on my chin. (Get a full face helmet!)

In spite of it all I can't wait to get back on a scooter. I have to get a new one however (now I can get a red one!) but right now it's exciting to look. There is something about it that gets into your blood, pretty soon you'll be out in the rain and cold just to get a scooter fix,and even if it dosn't look at the price of Gas! You'll thank me later.

scooterstud · Post by **scooterstud** » Tue May 22, 2007 2:45 pm

scullyfu wrote:just like the safety class brochure suggests, when talking about why people 'fail' the class, perhaps you aren't ready to ride yet, for whatever reason. maybe you're nervous, perhaps even scared, tired or not feeling well. it doesn't make you a bad person or a loser. so, do what feels best and right for 'you' and hang what others may think of your decision.

more importantly, use this as an opportunity to learn a life lesson: investigate something thoroughly before making major expenditures.

Well, I did talk to the three people at work who ride scooters, none of them have had any trouble, and none of them wear any kind of special gear other than helmet and eyewear, not even boots or gloves. They don't make it sound like its so hard or dangerous, they were all enthusiastic, they love riding, and at least one of them has been doing it for years. For all of them it is their main mode of transportation. I guess I figured talking to people who actually ride a scooter as their main way of getting around town would be research enough. They all also know other riders and none of them had any horror stories to scare me away.

When I get on here its a different story. Lots of people have personal stories of wiping out, of being hit, or road rash, and lots of talk of how important gear is. Its like two completely different worlds!

scooterstud · Post by **scooterstud** » Tue May 22, 2007 2:57 pm

pesqueeb wrote:I agree completely, don't get scared off the scooter before you really get on it. I recently had a very serious accident, very similar to Tazio, that reads like every "statistic" quoted in this thread. Less than 35 MPH, less than a mile from home. (damn you Starbucks!) I remember leaving the house, and like Tazio, my next memory is a very hazy one in the back of the ambulance, then nothing for the next month due to the medical coma I was placed in. I won't go into Injury details, as they are many and varied and have MUCH more to do with the fact that the cager who hit me ran me over, not the fact that she hit me. The point I guess is that I was fully decked out, helmet, gloves, bright orange reflective jacket, pants, etc. I'll be the first to admit, yes it kind of looks retarded on a scooter, but I'm very gratefull to have had it all on. My Helmet saved my life, and I had no road rash except for a small spot on my chin. (Get a full face helmet!)

In spite of it all I can't wait to get back on a scooter. I have to get a new one however (now I can get a red one!) but right now it's exciting to look. There is something about it that gets into your blood, pretty soon you'll be out in the rain and cold just to get a scooter fix,and even if it dosn't look at the price of Gas! You'll thank me later.

Wow, that sounds like quite an experience! Are you okay and will you make a full recovery? Do you know what happened? Sounds like you don't remember yourself, but did you find out afterwards how the accident happened?

Regardless, sorry to hear about your accident, but I'm glad you are at least well enough to still post on here. Hope you are back to 100% soon and thanks for sharing.

codemonkey · Post by **codemonkey** » Tue May 22, 2007 3:02 pm

In the MFC class, they said that the vast majority of motorcycle fatalities were due to one or more of the following:

alcohol,
lack of gear (or wearing gear improperly),
bad driving (you're not gonna try popping wheelies or zipping down the highway at 100 mph on your scooter, are you?)

I figure if I don't drink, I always wear my gear and I drive carefully and don't do anything stupid, I have just as much of a chance of getting in an accident on my scooter as I do in a car (or on a bicycle). Most of the time your helmet will save you and most of the time, your jacket, riding pants and boots will protect your skin just like most of the time, your seatbelt and airbag will save you in a car.

scooterstud · Post by **scooterstud** » Tue May 22, 2007 4:06 pm

codemonkey wrote:In the MFC class, they said that the vast majority of motorcycle fatalities were due to one or more of the following:

alcohol,
lack of gear (or wearing gear improperly),
bad driving (you're not gonna try popping wheelies or zipping down the highway at 100 mph on your scooter, are you?)

I figure if I don't drink, I always wear my gear and I drive carefully and don't do anything stupid, I have just as much of a chance of getting in an accident on my scooter as I do in a car (or on a bicycle). Most of the time your helmet will save you and most of the time, your jacket, riding pants and boots will protect your skin just like most of the time, your seatbelt and airbag will save you in a car.

That sounds like quite a good outlook. I got a copy of proficient motorcycling when picking up the scooter and have been reading it. I am glad I did as I feel like it is instilling in me good riding habits. I definitely feel I need more gear before I start commuting.

pesqueeb · Post by **pesqueeb** » Wed May 23, 2007 5:07 pm

scooterstud wrote:
pesqueeb wrote:I agree completely, don't get scared off the scooter before you really get on it. I recently had a very serious accident, very similar to Tazio, that reads like every "statistic" quoted in this thread. Less than 35 MPH, less than a mile from home. (damn you Starbucks!) I remember leaving the house, and like Tazio, my next memory is a very hazy one in the back of the ambulance, then nothing for the next month due to the medical coma I was placed in. I won't go into Injury details, as they are many and varied and have MUCH more to do with the fact that the cager who hit me ran me over, not the fact that she hit me. The point I guess is that I was fully decked out, helmet, gloves, bright orange reflective jacket, pants, etc. I'll be the first to admit, yes it kind of looks retarded on a scooter, but I'm very gratefull to have had it all on. My Helmet saved my life, and I had no road rash except for a small spot on my chin. (Get a full face helmet!)

In spite of it all I can't wait to get back on a scooter. I have to get a new one however (now I can get a red one!) but right now it's exciting to look. There is something about it that gets into your blood, pretty soon you'll be out in the rain and cold just to get a scooter fix,and even if it dosn't look at the price of Gas! You'll thank me later.
Wow, that sounds like quite an experience! Are you okay and will you make a full recovery? Do you know what happened? Sounds like you don't remember yourself, but did you find out afterwards how the accident happened?

Regardless, sorry to hear about your accident, but I'm glad you are at least well enough to still post on here. Hope you are back to 100% soon and thanks for sharing.

I am expected to make a full recovery, although the doc's in the hospital say I'll probably be able to tell when the next storms coming. I remember nothing about the accident it self, which is probably just as well, I'm sure it was fairly traumatic. Everything I know I read in the police report. Cager made a left turn across traffic right in front of me. Apparently at some point the bike went down and struck the diver side front fender and I wound up underneath the car. The Cager told the police she thought she hit the curb and the first time she saw me was laying in the road in her rear view mirror.
The good news is that I am recovering and expecting to return to work soon and am really looking forward to being able to get out and ride the scooter an Mountain Bike (my other love) again soon.
Cheers!

Rippinyarn · Post by **Rippinyarn** » Wed May 23, 2007 5:13 pm

Holy crap.

Good luck healing everybody...note to self to begin looking for some "non-Depends" looking riding pants to complete the ensemble...

And they called me a fashion goof for all my yellowness on my scoot and jackets, gloves and helmets and such. Fasionable maybe, safer yes.

Ron

codemonkey · Post by **codemonkey** » Wed May 23, 2007 5:29 pm

From what I've seen and heard, pink, white, yellow and orange stand out the best. Black is the worst and since it's cheapest to make and perceived as "cool" it's the easiest to find.

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Thu May 24, 2007 2:49 am

We can learn a lot from those unfortunate folks who've been victims in wrecks. What you cannot do is fixate on a mental image of it being you. Living your life carries some risk, especially if you want to enjoy life. If you're passionate about riding you accept the risk and do whatever you're comfortable with to mitigate that risk. At some point, most riders will experience something that forces them to question their commitment to riding. If passion beats fear, you keep riding. If fear wins, it's time to stop for a while.

Good gear can help but we all know instinctively that there are times when gear won't do much for you. Some stuff is better quality than other stuff but the single most important factor is fit. If your gear fits right it will typically do what it was designed to do. If your helmet is too loose it's not going to do its job. Similarly, if your jacket, pants or gloves are loose they'll bunch instead of slide.

I remain convinced that the best material for jackets, pants and gloves is good quality, motorcycle-specific leather. There are reasons why people who make a living by riding wear leather. I've yet to find leather pants that I can wear comfortably so I compromise with textile pants but I rely on leather jackets and gloves. I'm not a fan of leather as far as fashion goes, but when it comes to saving my own skin, I'll wear animal skin.

Modern Buddy

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