[NBR] CSMI L Series aka Lammy knock-off

UnionZac · Post by **UnionZac** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:10 pm

Did any one get a chance to see this at the show in Indianapolis? There isn't too much out on the web about it, just a few pictures. I think it looks gorgeous, with the exception of a digital speedo (which hopefully will get worked out if it goes to production). Not sure about the cc's or whether its a twist-n-go like our beloved Buddy, or a manual.

Thoughts?

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v356/ ... es_lrg.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/ ... es_lrg.jpg" border="0" alt="Scooter,L Series"></a>

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:18 pm

I may be wrong, but that looks like a piaggio leader engine? Maybe 150cc? 200cc?

KRUSTYburger · Post by **KRUSTYburger** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:15 pm

I'd buy one.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:17 pm

I like how they put the turn signals in the cowls rather than adding huge DOT blinkers, then again, it's a show model, it wouldnt be used for the street, so a actual production model may not be as shiny and good.

bikebuda · Post by **bikebuda** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:24 pm

that is back again

this is the fourth year someone has brought that bike to Indy saying it is there new prototype

UnionZac · Post by **UnionZac** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:29 pm

so do we know whats stopping production? Call me crazy, but I bet alot of people would literally jump on one of those in a heart beat.

enzomatic · Post by **enzomatic** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:07 pm

is that metal or plastic?

UnionZac · Post by **UnionZac** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:01 pm

my mistake, its CMSI.

UnionZac · Post by **UnionZac** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:06 pm

ok I found this on 2 Stroke Buzz (my secret... google, you haven't heard of it) Anyway, here's what POC Phil had to say:

CMSI/TnG has managed what appears to be a complete turn-around. Last year you couldn’t find their booth with a map and a guide, and when you did get there, if you blinked you’d miss it. This year, they went high-rent, with new scooters and a heavy focus on the new L type (Lambretta) prototype. The latest incarnation of the Lambretta (look, I’m calling it a Lambretta and there’s nothing you can do about it!) is using the same fuel injected, 250cc motor found in the Vespa GTS. They’ve also gone to a superbike-inspired dual radiator setup to aid cooling. The body is more proportioned now that they are using SX legshields. It makes the front taller, and provides a much nicer riding position. Word is they’re going to start production in autumn, and there is talk they may even be building it in TORONTO! Gasp! They have made some very good moves this year, bringing on scooter expert Rich Easton (formerly of Vespa Canada) to handle parts and warranty, and their PM Tuning division shows commitment to the customer and the desire to support what they’re selling. They also have produced a nice line of soft luggage for scooters that appears to be good quality and reasonably priced. The only downside to their booth was their newest scooter has been named the “GS150,” one look at the scooter will end any confusion at the scooter rally.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:46 pm

CMSI/TnG wasn't at dealer expo this year. It's widely believed this project is dead.

The post with the comment from Phil is from last year—there's been no news about this since then. Even at that time, people were skeptical.

As much as I'd like to see a new Lammy-styled scoot (well, maybe not… be careful what you wish for…), I don't think this one is ever going to happen.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:11 pm

I think that was actually from two years ago... I don't think they were there last year, either.

That scooter's never coming out, and TNG/CMSI seems to be pretty quiet overall lately, they've sorta become just another asian scooter importer. Too bad, they had promise. There are about one thousand stories about that whole ordeal on 2strokebuzz, check the "TNG" category, or search for "khurana" "schwinn," "TNG" or "Scomadi"

Bb.

UnionZac · Post by **UnionZac** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:29 pm

Dear Genuine,

Please pick up where TNG/CMSI left off with their L-Series. Let it have an all metal frame, and at least a 200cc engine. I will leave the auto/manu decision in your capable hands. Most of all, let it be of the quality and reliability we have come to know and love in all of your products. Finally, send me one for free for giving you this wonderful idea, of which I am certainly the first to recommend.

Yours Truly

Red Buddy-ist Zac

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:48 pm

UnionZac wrote:Dear Genuine,

Please pick up where TNG/CMSI left off with their L-Series. Let it have an all metal frame, and at least a 200cc engine. I will leave the auto/manu decision in your capable hands. Most of all, let it be of the quality and reliability we have come to know and love in all of your products. Finally, send me one for free for giving you this wonderful idea, of which I am certainly the first to recommend.

Yours Truly

Red Buddy-ist Zac

LOL.

Here's the rub: Genuine is working on a larger-CC scooter, a "touring" scoot. It won;t be metal. It won't look like a Lammy. It will be inspired by other great classic European scooters. (Think France, Germany.) That's about all I know about it.

If you read through the many 2strokeBuzz posts and comments, what you'll find is that this is one of several attempts in recent years to build a modern scooter in a vintage body (or something close). There are a number of design issues, the main one being width. It's easier to do with a manual, but I think it would be foolish for anyone to invest a ton of development money on a new design for a manual scooter.

So my wish, as always, remains this: A 50-state Stella with a 200 or 250cc engine or even a 150 is they can figure out how to retain enough power in making it a 4-stroke. I think LML showed something kinda like this at EICMA.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:47 am

UnionZac wrote:Dear Genuine,

Please pick up where TNG/CMSI left off with their L-Series. Let it have an all metal frame, and at least a 200cc engine. I will leave the auto/manu decision in your capable hands. Most of all, let it be of the quality and reliability we have come to know and love in all of your products. Finally, send me one for free for giving you this wonderful idea, of which I am certainly the first to recommend.

Yours Truly

Red Buddy-ist Zac

Watch the bike genuine is developing be this now you wrote that.

Kurt · Post by **Kurt** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:03 am

illnoise wrote:I think that was actually from two years ago... I don't think they were there last year, either.

That scooter's never coming out, and TNG/CMSI seems to be pretty quiet overall lately, they've sorta become just another asian scooter importer. Too bad, they had promise. There are about one thousand stories about that whole ordeal on 2strokebuzz, check the "TNG" category, or search for "khurana" "schwinn," "TNG" or "Scomadi"

Bb.

I was at Dealer Expo last year, and saw the L-series at the CMSI booth. I was very impressed, and disappointed that it never came out.

As for searching for Schwinn, I am a Schwinn dealer and asked my rep today why they didn't have a booth this year. The answer? Money. Last year they went big, and overdid things. They decided it wasn't worth it this year.

Schwinn is still shipping scoots, however, so don't write them off just yet!

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:12 am

search for "schwinn" on 2strokebuzz. They totally screwed over TNG, and it went to court, though I never heard the outcome.

Scwhinn is another example of a proud brand name that used to mean something, and is now nothing but a sticker stuck to cheap chinese products. They still make good bikes, in America even, but they're not the ones you usually see. They screwed over their dealer network and are undercutting their own dealers with junky product at big box stores. I have friends at bike shops who say they can't even make money fixing cheap chinese bikes because they're all made with non-standard cheap parts, and no one wants to pay $50 to repair a $75 bike. Sound familiar?

As far as the Scomadi/Lambretta Series IV/L-series, it was bound to never happen, it was too ambitious and trying to be everything at once. Can't be done. Vintage Lambretta fans scoffed at the details and the automatic transmission. The Lambretta name was off the table, which led the major investors to leave the project and start importing Adlys with Lambretta stickers.

The Venti (search 2sb, ha, or here) is another example. You just can't please everybody.

I hear there's a new lambretta in the works, but they're doing a really good job of keeping it under wraps. I'm betting it's the Lambretta version of the Venti, more or less.

If you want a vintage bike, buy a vintage bike. There are plenty of awesome modern bikes, and plenty of awesome vintage bikes, and there's no reason you can't have/ride both, but mixing them together ruins the good things about each of them, and it never works. ; )

Howardr · Post by **Howardr** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:17 pm

illnoise wrote: If you want a vintage bike, buy a vintage bike. There are plenty of awesome modern bikes, and plenty of awesome vintage bikes, and there's no reason you can't have/ride both, but mixing them together ruins the good things about each of them, and it never works. ; )

I see your point. However, seeing the (however brief) success of the PT Cruiser. It does look like it is POSSIBLE to create a successful modern vehcle with a classic feel and look. Maybe someone in the scootwer world is hoping for a repeat.

Howard

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:09 pm

I wouldn't call the PT Cruiser a sucessful integration of vintage styling with modern technology, but I guess it does prove there's a market for people who want superficially retro vehicles. I think the vino, metro, mio, venti, vento, milano, mojito, etc have that market well-covered.

On the flip side, there are successful modernizations of classic vehicles, like the new mustangs, minis, beetles, chargers, etc... I think those are good at matching a vintage spirit to a modern vehicle, but they're still just not an accurate reproduction of the originals (thankfully). And obviously the scooter parallel there is Vespa...

And then there's the third option, make the classics just the way they were. That's the LML Star/Genuine Stella plan, and that works ok, but that leaves out modern. If people really wanted those (or if they were still legal everywhere), Bajaj, SIL, and Piaggio would still be making them, but sadly there just wasn't much of a market for "new vintage," especially because they were more expensive than the original, and not as good quality (even the Piaggio PX150 disc wasn't as well made as a vintage P-series).

Bb.

pocphil · Post by **pocphil** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:40 pm

If the PT Cruiser is your example of a success story - the combination of vintage style with modern reliability...then choose from the following:

Vespa GT (s) or ANY of the variants
Vespa LX or any of the variants
Buddy
Stella (the most accurate vintage scooter because it is)

That's 4 scoots right there that are definitely vintage looking but modern driving.

I am 100% convinced that the American scooter buyer is the most fickle customer on the planet. Give them EXACTLY what they're looking for then stand back as they'll complain they wanted something else.

I want a Steel Bodied Lambretta with a modern powertrain.

Ok....Go here:

http://www.lambrettainnovation.co.uk/vi ... .php?pid=8

Contact Frank, wire him around $6,000 and in a few months he'll give you a call to let you know if your bike is ready.

Choose your own motor from about 6 different varieties, but I recommend the Quasar 250 from Piaggio (non fuel injected).

Howardr · Post by **Howardr** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:15 pm

How about some new variation of the original cushman?

Howard

KRUSTYburger · Post by **KRUSTYburger** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:50 pm

Thanks for the link for Lambretta Innovation, I had seen it a while back and thought it was cool, but now it could possibly be
an option (depending on shipping costs). I guess I might be lazy and wait for the 4T Stella that *might* just surface in the next
couple years. Although the Lammy would be infinity times cooler.

+1 on the Cushman idea... I would think it would be really easy to put just about any engine in there since it's got so much room!
Obviously nothing with a radiator though. Hey how do they fit the radiators in the rebuilt Lambrettas?

laxer · Post by **laxer** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:48 am

Hadn't seen anyone talk about this in awhile, but Scomadi has come out with their first ten Leggera Scooters and I think they're absolutely beautiful! 250cc engine, twist-n-go tranny, and awesome styling. I can't imagine that they just drop this project after making ten scoots, I'd love to get my hands on one! (not as much as I'd like to get an original DL200, but still...) Pics:

http://www.scooter-scene.co.uk/forums/v ... b613171add

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:08 am

Those are amazing, I hope they become sold at many dealers in the future. I'd ride one myself!

EDIT: I just noticed this is a tube frame like modern bikes, but with carbon fiber body panels. Amazing how it looks 100% like a retro lambretta made of steel body panels.

laxer · Post by **laxer** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:23 am

jfrost2 wrote:Those are amazing, I hope they become sold at many dealers in the future. I'd ride one myself!

EDIT: I just noticed this is a tube frame like modern bikes, but with carbon fiber body panels. Amazing how it looks 100% like a retro lambretta made of steel body panels.

Seriously, can I get one in Lammy Orange with black stripes?

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:36 am

I cant tell if the blue bike parked next to the 3 modern ones is the same thing but painted. It's hard to tell when all 4 bikes are exactly the same.

laxer · Post by **laxer** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:24 am

I don't think it is, I think it's oldschool. It's got the glovebox and the piece of the CVT cover is shiny and different (I guess it wouldn't be a cvt on an old scoot, but ya know what I mean).

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:04 am

Howardr wrote:How about some new variation of the original cushman?

Yamaha C3

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/produ ... /home.aspx

DennisD · Post by **DennisD** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:56 am

Dooglas wrote:
Howardr wrote:How about some new variation of the original cushman?
Yamaha C3

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/produ ... /home.aspx

I thought the Yamaha looked more like the Topper than the Cushman until I started looking around more.
You're right. You did say "original Cushman" and that goes back to the 30s. Even so, lots of 'newer' Cushman's had the enclosed design. Here's a link to pages of Cushman scooter pics. Beautiful scooters.
http://www.hobbytech.com/featurebike.htm

1947 Cushman model 52.

Cushman Eagle.

Topper.

Yamaha C3

ScooterDave · Post by **ScooterDave** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:12 pm

laxer wrote:I don't think it is, I think it's oldschool. It's got the glovebox and the piece of the CVT cover is shiny and different (I guess it wouldn't be a cvt on an old scoot, but ya know what I mean).

The glovebox is off a P series Vespa. A common thing to do to custom Lammys.

laxer · Post by **laxer** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:27 pm

I just also noticed that the blue one doesn't have that box under the floorboards, I'm pretty positive that it's an oldschool Lammy.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:56 pm

There's more pictures along with tech specs of the "Lambretta Innovations" Lambretta clones <a href="http://www.lambrettainnovation.co.uk/vi ... 5">here</a> I gotta say, I'd ride that. He's done a very good job of making a Lambretta with a modern 250 auto in it.

PeterC · Post by **PeterC** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:30 pm

If that Scomadi Lambretta becomes available in the U.S. for around $6,000, I'd definitely be interested. If Genuine then got their proposed "classic mystery cruiser" past the rumor stage and into production, I'd have a difficult choice to make!

ScooterDave · Post by **ScooterDave** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:51 pm

jfrost2 wrote:EDIT: I just noticed this is a tube frame like modern bikes, but with carbon fiber body panels. Amazing how it looks 100% like a retro lambretta made of steel body panels.

Um... Lambretta's were always a tubular frame. That is why they were always the first choice for a cut down. If you cut down a Vespa, you usually welded a bar between the seat and the fork.

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:41 pm

pocphil said:

Contact Frank, wire him around $6,000 and in a few months he'll give you a call to let you know if your bike is ready.
Choose your own motor from about 6 different varieties, but I recommend the Quasar 250 from Piaggio (non fuel injected).

These scooters seem very interesting – I was wondering;
Why not the fuel injected motor?
Can these scooters be registered here the USA?

The Yamaha RD motors are wild

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:51 pm

ScooterDave wrote:
jfrost2 wrote:EDIT: I just noticed this is a tube frame like modern bikes, but with carbon fiber body panels. Amazing how it looks 100% like a retro lambretta made of steel body panels.
Um... Lambretta's were always a tubular frame. That is why they were always the first choice for a cut down. If you cut down a Vespa, you usually welded a bar between the seat and the fork.

Hey Dave, the barcode makes it ohh so convienient to get to your site on my Android phone

PeterC · Post by **PeterC** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:13 pm

I inquired by e-mail about the possibility of getting a TL 250 in the U.S.A., and got the following response:

Thanks for your enquiry; we regret that at present there are no plans to sell the TL 250 in the USA. It may be a possibility for you to buy a british registered scooter but you would have to do any import procedures and changes to the vehichle to suit US regulations yourself.
the current cost in the UK is £6995.00.
best regards Frank.

iwabj · Post by **iwabj** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:18 pm

laxer · Post by **laxer** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:41 pm

PeterC wrote:I inquired by e-mail about the possibility of getting a TL 250 in the U.S.A., and got the following response:

Thanks for your enquiry; we regret that at present there are no plans to sell the TL 250 in the USA. It may be a possibility for you to buy a british registered scooter but you would have to do any import procedures and changes to the vehichle to suit US regulations yourself.
the current cost in the UK is £6995.00.
best regards Frank.

NO!!! WHY!!??

PeterC · Post by **PeterC** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:04 pm

For about $6,000, I'd be interested. For more than $11,000 USD at current exchange rates, plus the cost of shipping and compliance with U.S. regs, fuggedabahtit! I'd love to have a fast, classic highway cruiser, but at that price, I'll pass!

laxer · Post by **laxer** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:45 am

I hear ya, guess I'll just have to keep my eyes out for a vintage Lammy instead...

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:14 am

laxer wrote:I hear ya, guess I'll just have to keep my eyes out for a vintage Lammy instead...

There's *3* classic Lammy's for sale on my local craigslist! And at good prices(Well, for Lambretta's....)!

Why don't I have endless piles of cash laying around with notes labeling them "For scooter stuff only"???

brape · Post by **brape** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:27 am

I have one.... http://burlington.craigslist.org/mcy/1412748359.html ... I think I'm going to have to pass tho.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:30 am

brape wrote:I have one.... http://burlington.craigslist.org/mcy/1412748359.html ... I think I'm going to have to pass tho.

Wow, thats a wicked price, but that one's gonna need some love to be worth anything.

brape · Post by **brape** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:33 am

Kaos wrote:
brape wrote:I have one.... http://burlington.craigslist.org/mcy/1412748359.html ... I think I'm going to have to pass tho.
Wow, thats a wicked price, but that one's gonna need some love to be worth anything.

I would love to have the learning opertunity, but funds are short and I'm not sure my parents want a rusted out hunk o metal in the yard.

I also don't have anyone to help me with that kind of thing so I'd have to join the scooter club to mooch help to supplement my self teaching.

UnionZac · Post by **UnionZac** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:51 pm

wow and double wow! I had been toying w/the idea of getting a motorcycle, but if one of these were in the realm of possibility I think I would have a much harder decision.

http://www.scooter-scene.co.uk/forums/v ... 258174f80e

http://www.lambrettainnovation.co.uk/vi ... php?pid=17

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:49 pm

Ok Lammy people...here's a story of someone (who happens to be the president of the Aussie Lambretta Club) riding across Australia: http://lammiedrive.blogspot.com/
Great pics.

And $550 for that?! No no no. Repeat to yourself: I will have patience.
You'll find something decent and rideable for $1500 to $2500. You will. Patience.

brape · Post by **brape** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:21 am

I don't think I want to pay to insure and register another bike anyway... thats right, its far too mcuh of a hassle. (and I never had any intentions of buying the rust bucket, just romantic notions of playing scooter restoration games)

LisaLisa · Post by **LisaLisa** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:04 am

yeah, those are all good, but I am utilitarian at heart. I need a bigger bike for long trips and longish commutes. I want bigger wheels, too.

And at this point I don't need it to look like a lambretta, so if the blur220 or the next genuscoot works for me I'm sold.