SSR, MCR: might be a new addition to the stable

[Cheshire]

I'm going to look at a 1983 Kawasaki GPZ-550 tomorrow.
Anyone have any advice for a first-time motorcycle buyer? I could do a used bicycle walkthrough with my eyes closed, I'm learning about scooters, but so far, my motorcycle experience is limited to my MSF class and drooling over Triumphs when I go to the shop I got my scooter from.

http://asheville.craigslist.org/mcy/1532917869.html
Here's the craigslist ad I'm chasing. Thoughts? Opinions? Bewilderments?

[rajron]

I think when purchasing a machine, it should be working properly, otherwise you need to ask “Can I and do I have the time to work on the machine.”

[Cheshire]

Understood. The ad says the carbs need cleaning, but it starts and runs. Talked to the guy over the phone, it sounds alright...we'll see in a few hours.

I'm looking forward to this: something interstate-capable and a backup for the scooter. It's going to make learning how the scooter works and doing some voodoo upgrades much more relaxing now: I was terrified of screwing up and being stuck in the car if I tried to do more than an oil change. Heck, first time I did an oil change I felt like that. I'm planning on tinkering on the motorcycle as a functional ongoing project and relying on the scooter. When the motorcycle's running confidently, I'll switch and (money allowing) pick back up on scooter voodoo!








(At least, that's the plan. Looks good on paper, don't it? Here's hoping I don't start working on the MC and end up knocking it out of commission until NEXT winter! Regardless, my scooter won't be neglected. )

[Rob]

That's a bit of a generic question. it might be a little late now, but you might want to find a Kawasaki forum and ask the question there. You will likely find folks familiar with that particular model that have more insight on what to check.

Rob

[Cheshire]

Hehe. The main reason I posted was I HAD to share. I guess the question was (rereading it) less a question and more of a nervous, "is this really gonna happen? Oh, no...what if it's too good to be true? How do I know if it's too good to be true?"

Wish me luck! I'm getting ready to head out there now.

[jrsjr]

Thoughts?

Here is a site devoted to the GPZ models. That is where I found a link to an article about the GPZs from the British magazine Classic & Motorcycle Mechanics - Page 1 - 2 - 3. Check at the bottom of Page 3 for a section titled, "PROBLEM AREAS." That'll give you some clues what to look out for. Also, here is a page devoted to what any prospective used motorcycle buyer should look out for.

I'm looking at the photo of the bike in the Craigslist ad and I can't help but wonder where the little bikini fairing went to. Did the owner take it off intentionally? Did it get destroyed in a crash? Clearly, the carburetors are going to need to be thoroughly cleaned, at least, probably rebuilt is more like it. Can you still buy the CV diaphram for those carbs? I assume so, but I'd like to know where to actually get hold of a rebuild kit first. Also, remember, this bike has four carbs, so it's four times the work to clean or rebuild them.

Finally, following on something the Motorcycle & Mechanics article says, since the owner says the bike runs, I'd listen carefully to it run. If it sounds "rattly," I'd keep on looking at other bikes. That totally agrees with my experience with 80's Kawasaki motorcycle engines.

[Cheshire]

4 carbs?!? Yup...yup, it does. I guess I'll be getting plenty of practice with carb work! Ah, well. It didn't occur to me that each cylinder would need it's own carb. (I can see this is going to be one heckuva learning experience.)

It looks like it's been dropped once, but nothing major: couple scrapes, a minor dent, scratched clutch lever. It starts, runs, and rides. Considering it started up cold at about 18F with no problems, I'm assuming that's a good sign. As far as "rides", I haven't taken it further than down my driveway without using the gas, letting the clutch partway out until the engine pulls. I did shift back and forth from 1st to neutral and back a few times. For all intents and purposes, it seems just fine so far, though.

I GOT A NEW BIKE!!!
(but I'm not giving up my scooter. )

[Lostmycage]

Hehe yep... Get ready for some reading. There's a home made carb sync tool that you can make with some 1/4" tubing, scrap board and AutoTransmission fluid, but routing it means you need to know the firing order. That looks like a nice light bike that you should be able to have some fun with.

Check the tires for dry-rot.

Ingratiate yourself with that forum that jsrjr posted because you're going to have a lot of questions. Rebuilding a carb is one thing... syncing 4 is another, lol.

Have fun!

[Kaos]

Hehe yep... Get ready for some reading. There's a home made carb sync tool that you can make with some 1/4" tubing, scrap board and AutoTransmission fluid, but routing it means you need to know the firing order. That looks like a nice light bike that you should be able to have some fun with.

Check the tires for dry-rot.

Ingratiate yourself with that forum that jsrjr posted because you're going to have a lot of questions. Rebuilding a carb is one thing... syncing 4 is another, lol.

Have fun!

Yeah, carb sync is always LOADS of fun... I've got triple two barrel carbs on my 1970 Plymouth, and helped a friend with a racing slant-6cyl tune 6 Mikuni 1bbl's for his. Makes me glad my Buddy has just one.

[Cheshire]

Any suggestions for getting a screw out that's stuck? I stopped when I realized I was about to strip the phillips head.
It's the screws on the float bowls.

I realize this isn't a Buddy or even a scooter, but I've come to trust y'all. Will you help me, Obi Wan?

If I shouldn't be going on about this bike here, that's fair. I feel like I'm a bit out on a limb, so I won't mind at all if someone calls me on it.

[KCScooterDude]

I'm going to look at a 1983 Kawasaki GPZ-550 tomorrow.
Anyone have any advice for a first-time motorcycle buyer? I could do a used bicycle walkthrough with my eyes closed, I'm learning about scooters, but so far, my motorcycle experience is limited to my MSF class and drooling over Triumphs when I go to the shop I got my scooter from.

http://asheville.craigslist.org/mcy/1532917869.html
Here's the craigslist ad I'm chasing. Thoughts? Opinions? Bewilderments?

I have a 1981 Suzuki GS550 and I love it. You can't go wrong with these bikes.

Advice: My bike didn't run and I bought it for $425 with only 10,500 miles on it. If it's running well (I mean the current owner tuned it, re-did the carbs, etc.) It might be worth $1,000 to $1,200, but unless it's a complete resto, don't pay any more. Look at classicjapanesemotorcycles.com for an idea of what restored bikes go for.

Once you have the bike, congrats. They are easy to work on. You will want to clean the carbs out, drain the fluids and replace the tires if they are old and have been sitting for a while. None of this should cost you a lot of money. The carbs are easier to work on than you might suspect. Just take pictures of them as you are taking them apart. Search eBay for kits that people make for re-build jobs. Basically they are fairly inexpensive pre-packaged O-ring kits. My suzuki has four Mikuni carbs. Off hand I don't know what Kawi used at the time. Drain all the gas and when you put the tank back on, put a cheap in-line fuel filter on to catch the junk that has no doubt collected in the tank. change the oil and filter and do it again after 300 to 500 miles. Bleed the brakes. This is nothing to fool around with. If you are not comfortable doing it yourself have someone help or pay to have it done. Stopping is too important to fool around with. The front fork probably needs oil. A Clymer manual will tell you how to do this (it's not something that has to be done on Day 1). Shocks are probably shot if it's been sitting too long. Again, don't let the old tires go too long.

You can obtain shop drawings of the bike at bikebandit.com. Enter your year and model. Order parts from them or call your local dealer, which will still have many of the parts in stock or can get them.

When you put the carbs back on the bike, you will want to tune it. Check into Color Tune, which I don't think they make any more, but is the easiest way to tune a bike. It's magnificent. You just remove the spark plugs, hook up color tune and adjust the flame for color and consistency. Takes about five minutes per cylinder. You can always guess, too, which is what most people do.

When you go to buy the bike, it is often helpful to take a compression checker. You hook it up to each spark plug. I suppose the numbers you should get as a reading are posted somewhere. Generally, though I just want to know that each cylinder is putting out the same output. A cup of water is also handy. If the bike runs, pour water on each pipe as it comes out of the header to make sure all cylinders are firing. If you touch these even briefly with bare skin you will regret it.

If the bike has something wrong with the engine, always a possibility, don't fret. these are pretty bullet proof and you should be able to fix it with a small amount of ability. It will just take longer.

I prefer to buy bikes that are not running and have been siting for ages. The owner just wants to get rid of them and will practically pay you to cart them away. These bikes can almost always be fixed using the methods above. In any case, a bike that isn't running or is running but not well should cost from $400 to $600. Double that for a bike that is running, but not fully restored. And no, it doesn't matter what the owner has done to it ($2,500 four-into-one exhaust). Tough luck, pal. Take it off and put the old one one or eat the cost.

Just remember that bikes like these are a dime a dozen. If this one isn't a good deal. One will come along. There are some exceptions for a really rare bike, but generally this is what I've found.

Finally, join the Vintage Japanese Motorccyle Club. www.vjmc.org. They not only have a kick butt quarterly magazine, but they have some helpful info on their Web site and you can always pick the brain of some members who have the same bike. Vintage, by the way, is 25 years or older. Antique (and there is a club for that) is 30 years or older. Basically, if it was built before the Kansas City Royals won the World Series, it's vintage. My, how the world has changed!

[Lostmycage]

Is it a tapered philips or a flat philips? if it's flat, use a flat tip. If it's got a hex body, use a socket to remove it. If those aren't options, pull the carb and situate it on a bench in a vice (use wood or something soft between the jaws so you don't scratch or crush anything. Once you're there, if you can't remove the screws without stripping them, use a vice grip pliers and clamp down on the head and remove it that way. Replacement screws are pretty easy to come by.

You might be able to find a screw kit like <a href="http://www.jpcycles.com/product/4000363">this one</a> for your carb model. If you can, get one for each carb. Hex/allen head screws are great on carbs because they make rebuilding a ton easier and less frustrating.

Good luck!

[KCScooterDude]

Any suggestions for getting a screw out that's stuck? I stopped when I realized I was about to strip the phillips head.
It's the screws on the float bowls.

I realize this isn't a Buddy or even a scooter, but I've come to trust y'all. Will you help me, Obi Wan?

If I shouldn't be going on about this bike here, that's fair. I feel like I'm a bit out on a limb, so I won't mind at all if someone calls me on it.

Every mechanic I know has a tool that basically bores into the top of the screw enough to create enough of a slot that they can work the screw out. I have no idea what these things are called, but if you run by a scooter or MC shop that you do business with one of the mechanics will probably pull it out for you for a fiver.

If you don't want to post but have questions, you can PM me or e-mail me at [email protected]. Between myself and my GS buddies we can probably come up with an answer for you.

[KCScooterDude]

Is it a tapered philips or a flat philips? if it's flat, use a flat tip. If it's got a hex body, use a socket to remove it. If those aren't options, pull the carb and situate it on a bench in a vice (use wood or something soft between the jaws so you don't scratch or crush anything. Once you're there, if you can't remove the screws without stripping them, use a vice grip pliers and clamp down on the head and remove it that way. Replacement screws are pretty easy to come by.

You might be able to find a screw kit like <a href="http://www.jpcycles.com/product/4000363">this one</a> for your carb model. If you can, get one for each carb. Hex/allen head screws are great on carbs because they make rebuilding a ton easier and less frustrating.

Good luck!

He will want a O-ring set too while he's in there messing with the carbs. Mikuni carbs are awesome, by the way. Harley guys like to brag that they have Mikuni carbs. Really, I say. I've got four of them!

[KCScooterDude]

Hehe yep... Get ready for some reading. There's a home made carb sync tool that you can make with some 1/4" tubing, scrap board and AutoTransmission fluid, but routing it means you need to know the firing order. That looks like a nice light bike that you should be able to have some fun with.

Check the tires for dry-rot.

Ingratiate yourself with that forum that jsrjr posted because you're going to have a lot of questions. Rebuilding a carb is one thing... syncing 4 is another, lol.

Have fun!

Color Tune is the only way to go for tuning carbs. Syncing them is not enough. By this age each carb will be different enough that each one will need individual adjustment.

[Cheshire]

Thanks, y'all.

That hex-head replacement sounds like a really good idea. I don't know how many times I've cursed phillips-head screws in the past, and that's on stuff that wasn't delicate. I'm going to look into that.

KCSD: I might end up bugging you as it goes along. Thanks for the offer! And that vintage site looks interesting. This bike's 27 years old, so it's vintage. Unless they redefine it, 3 more years and it'll be an antique!

[B-rad]

Just make sure that the individual rubber boots on the carb to the intake are all in good shape. The slightest hole in any of them will make it run wacko. My Kz750 had this setup, and ran well.

[Cheshire]

Update: with judicious use of WD-40 (that was wiped off afterwards), I got the stubborn screws out! Cleaned out the jets, all 4 of them on each carb. Idle jet, Primary main, secondary main, and thingit secondary(?) main screws into that has tiny holes that were half-clogged. I knew the name when the shop manual pdf was open to that page....

Still wouldn't idle right and rear tire had a leak, so I took it to my scooter's mechanic to get a new tire and have them take a look. The good news: I did a decent job cleaning the carbs and they said it was in synch, so I don't have to do that.
The bad news: the mechanic thinks it's in dire need of a valve adjustment...so I'm going to see if I can teach myself to do this. Right now, when I pull in the clutch lever the rpm's jump up to around 6-7k...embarrassing and scary at the 3 stoplights and 1 exit ramp going home! (I'm sorry!! I'm not impatient and revving the engine at you! Honestly!!! Look! Hand's off the throttle!!!)


Buddy-related: I really, REALLY appreciate my faithful scooter now! When the motorcycle and truck are getting too frustrating, it's wonderful to be able to turn the key on Puca, push the start button, and just ride. I'm also starting to be able to wrap my mind around how the scooter works, which makes me that much less nervous about the machine mysteries under the plastic panels. It's nice to learn on something that I don't have to worry about taking out of commission if I screw up: it's already not really running. No warranty to trash and worry about later. (Scooter's still got a year left.) I'm not a jittery mess standing there with a wrench feeling like I wandered into cardiac surgery with a cleaver. If I screw up, it's okay. (djelliot: couldn't find any lawn mowers like you suggested ages ago when I asked.)

YAY!!!

[KCScooterDude]

The bad news: the mechanic thinks it's in dire need of a valve adjustment...so I'm going to see if I can teach myself to do this. Right now, when I pull in the clutch lever the rpm's jump up to around 6-7k...embarrassing and scary at the 3 stoplights and 1 exit ramp going home! (I'm sorry!! I'm not impatient and revving the engine at you! Honestly!!! Look! Hand's off the throttle!!!)

I'm dubious. How many miles on the bike? What conditions were the O-rings in when you pulled the carbs apart - did you replace them? Has anyone messed with the exhaust, such as putting a four-into-one on the bike in place of two, two-into ones. (I can't remember if it's a two or four cylinder). I think a valve problem would cause clatter and rough running, not the RPM problem you describe. I'm assuming you mean that when you Dis-engage the clutch, the RPMs jump up? When you adjust the idle when this is happening, what happens?

[Cheshire]

Mechanic's the one who said check the valves after going behind me and pulling the carbs. She's got 25,748 miles on her. The O-rings were...servicable. I'm assuming you mean the ones on all the jets? If so, they'll work for now, but it's on my list of "things to replace soon". Might end up doing that before putting her back together from the valve check. Judging by the bolts on the valve cover (please let me have interpreted the shop manual correctly!!) they've never been checked, or not in a really, really long time.

Yeah, if pulling the clutch lever is disengaging, then when I disengage the clutch. That term's going to take some getting used to...sounds backwards to my mind. The rpm's go way up for a few seconds, then come down; but if they get below 2k the engine stalls. I haven't noticed any reaction from the idle adjustment knob yet, and the mechanic couldn't get the rpm's to stabilize at all.

Stock exhaust pair of 2-into-1's. DOHC 4-cylinder. Inline?

[Cheshire]

If you's got suggestions, I'm all ears. At this point, I'm guessing and learning as I go. If nothing else, this'll teach me how to do the periodic checks, yes? Either that, or I'm working much harder than I need to. At least I'm having fun, right?

[Lostmycage]

Check the choke cable. It sounds like you're somehow engaging the choke when you pull the clutch (no clue how that would happen) or the choke is set too taught in the first place and becomes more apparent when there's no engine load. It does sound like the problem is in the carbs, though.

As far as the lawnmower engine, well, you paid about as much as you would have for a lawnmower, so no damage done, lol.

[charlie55]

Here's another '83 GPZ-550 with similar problems:

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Motorcycle-R ... idling.htm

[KCScooterDude]

Mechanic's the one who said check the valves after going behind me and pulling the carbs. She's got 25,748 miles on her. The O-rings were...servicable. I'm assuming you mean the ones on all the jets? If so, they'll work for now, but it's on my list of "things to replace soon". Might end up doing that before putting her back together from the valve check. Judging by the bolts on the valve cover (please let me have interpreted the shop manual correctly!!) they've never been checked, or not in a really, really long time.

Yeah, if pulling the clutch lever is disengaging, then when I disengage the clutch. That term's going to take some getting used to...sounds backwards to my mind. The rpm's go way up for a few seconds, then come down; but if they get below 2k the engine stalls. I haven't noticed any reaction from the idle adjustment knob yet, and the mechanic couldn't get the rpm's to stabilize at all.

Stock exhaust pair of 2-into-1's. DOHC 4-cylinder. Inline?

Yeah, I wouldn't mess with the valves until you rule everything out. I can't imagine, even if it's been sitting, that the valves are the problem at only 25,000 miles.

I like the idea that something is happening with the choke. Do you have to give it any choke when you start it cold? If not, that might be evidence that the choke is acting up or set too high.

Yeah, O-rings. In my Mikuni carbs there are about a dozen little o-rings and rubber pieces and, if I remember right, a gasket, that I replaced. The o-rings were pretty crumbly after all that time.

There is a chance a spring might be stuck in one of those carbs or that a needle might be sticking open.

By the way, don't be surprised of one (or more) of the floats in carbs sticks open after you run the bike, particularly at high RPM for an extended period of time. This started happening to me after I got my GS up and running. It worked itself out over time. I don't think that would cause high idle, though. On my bike, it just caused a bowl's worth of gas to leak out under the bike. Don't freak out if this happens. Collect the gas and it should stop after an ounce or two of gas leaks out. They just haven't been running in a long time and sometimes they get stuck open until they learn how to work again. When this was going on I'd leave the bike on the driveway for about 20 minutes before pulling it into the garage.

Just an FYI. It freaked me out pretty bad the first time it happened.