Liquid Cooled 2-Strokers?

[Roose Hurro]

I was just in the Stella forum, reading in a thread about 2T outboard oil use in a Stella, and the mention that outboards and scooter 2T engines are completely different, in that outboards are water-cooled (suck in water from the lake), while the Stella is air-cooled. That got me to wondering:

Is there or has there ever been a scoot/motorcycle with a water/liquid-cooled 2-Stroke engine? Of course, more interested in the scoot side than the motorcycle...


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[jrsjr]

Exhibit A: Aprilia Ditech SR50

[rajron]

Water Buffalo

[Kaos]

There are also water cooling kits that will fit both the Minarelli style engine in the Buddy 50 and the Stella's P-150 clone engine.

[jmkjr72]

yes yamaha sells lc 2 stroke scooters in parts of the world other then the us
i have almost every part i need to convert my zuma to lc the water pump is an oem yamaha unit along with the rad and overflow

and the water pump shout be a bolt on for the buddy 50 rat 50 roughhouse

you just have to find a spot to bolt the rad up to

get a lc cyl kit and a temp guage and have at it

i also belive that yamaha made or makes several other lc 2 stroke motorcyles

now from what i understand about the stella it is just an lc head you and not a lc cyl

[bigbropgo]

yes yamaha sells lc 2 stroke scooters in parts of the world other then the us.

this is true and it sucks. 2t motors run pretty hot. they def burn up if you don't take care of it. many of the youtube vids with euro scoots show a water pump in place of the stator fan.

[illnoise]

Liquid-cooled cylinders are available for vintage Lambrettas and Vespas, too.

There have been tons of 2T liquid-cooled motorcycles over the years. Until the rule changes a couple years ago, I think most motorcross and supercross bikes were LC 2-strokes, as were (IIRC) the 125cc (and maybe 250cc?) MotoGP bikes. A lot of ATVs and Karts are 2T LC.

I think some Yamaha RZ350s (which seem to be crazy-popular with scooterists for some reason) were water-cooled, but maybe not in America.

It'd be nice to see more liquid-cooled 2-stroke scooters coming to the US, but no one's really even making 2-strokes anymore except 50cc bikes, and even those are getting harder to find, and there's no point in selling a more powerful 50cc scooter here, since 50cc bikes are limited by HP and/or top speed in most states anyway.

[enzomatic]

yup a friend has a piaggio moped and was able to find an LC kit in italy that he installed, it had a radiator he zip tied to the front fork and he used an old soda cup as reservoir.

[Keys]

...THAT'S where that cup went...

--Keys

[Lagerhead]

If I remember correctly, werren't the Gilera Runner and the Italjet Dragster both water cooled 2 strokes? At least the 180's.

[Kaos]

If I remember correctly, werren't the Gilera Runner and the Italjet Dragster both water cooled 2 strokes? At least the 180's.

Yep, the 180's were. Same motor in both. And both wicked fast.

[Roose Hurro]

Exhibit A: Aprilia Ditech SR50

Thanks... I'd totally forgotten about the SR50 being liquid cooled. From that thread in the Stella forum, it was my understanding that liquid cooling would allow a 2T bike to operate for extended time at max throttle, something potentially very damaging to an air-cooled 2T. Funny thing, but years ago, when the first SR50 DiTech came out, i remember looking at them, but the $3000 price tag for a 50cc machine was hard to swallow... that, and the first-gen bikes had problems. Hopefully solved in the second-gen DiTechs. If I was after a 50cc 2T, the present SR50R Factory would be my top choice, funds allowing. Very neat little bike!

There are also water cooling kits that will fit both the Minarelli style engine in the Buddy 50 and the Stella's P-150 clone engine.

yes yamaha sells lc 2 stroke scooters in parts of the world other then the us
i have almost every part i need to convert my zuma to lc the water pump is an oem yamaha unit along with the rad and overflow

and the water pump shout be a bolt on for the buddy 50 rat 50 roughhouse

you just have to find a spot to bolt the rad up to

get a lc cyl kit and a temp guage and have at it

i also belive that yamaha made or makes several other lc 2 stroke motorcyles

now from what i understand about the stella it is just an lc head you and not a lc cyl

Liquid-cooled cylinders are available for vintage Lambrettas and Vespas, too.

There have been tons of 2T liquid-cooled motorcycles over the years. Until the rule changes a couple years ago, I think most motorcross and supercross bikes were LC 2-strokes, as were (IIRC) the 125cc (and maybe 250cc?) MotoGP bikes. A lot of ATVs and Karts are 2T LC.

I think some Yamaha RZ350s (which seem to be crazy-popular with scooterists for some reason) were water-cooled, but maybe not in America.

It'd be nice to see more liquid-cooled 2-stroke scooters coming to the US, but no one's really even making 2-strokes anymore except 50cc bikes, and even those are getting harder to find, and there's no point in selling a more powerful 50cc scooter here, since 50cc bikes are limited by HP and/or top speed in most states anyway.

Yes, it would be nice, and given what Aprillia has done with their DiTech technology, it would be great to have larger displacement 2T engines that burn as clean (the DiTech passed Euro 3 specs according to jrsjr's link, same as the Vespa GTS 4T). I just keep thinking how the original and "clone" P-series Vespas were limited in their high-speed touring use by the air-cooled nature of their engines. Liquid cooling seems the best way to avoid the overheating and siezing problems inherent in an air-cooled 2T. Would seem to be the best of both worlds, better high-speed durability, coupled with the ease of 2T performance tuning. Sure would make for an interesting ride!

Oh, and thanks for all the info. Now, what about any personal experiences with LC 2T scoots/motorcycles, compared with their air-cooled brothers? Seems to be a history out there, ready to be explored...

If I remember correctly, werren't the Gilera Runner and the Italjet Dragster both water cooled 2 strokes? At least the 180's.

I think so, but I haven't seen a Dragster or Runner 180 in quite a few years, so I'm probably just guessing. Shame they don't make them any more...

If I remember correctly, werren't the Gilera Runner and the Italjet Dragster both water cooled 2 strokes? At least the 180's.

Yep, the 180's were. Same motor in both. And both wicked fast.

Ahhh... so I did remember rightly! Wicked fast, indeed. Wouldn't mind finding one (Dragster) one of these days (I do so hate being poor... )


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[Kaos]

If I remember correctly, werren't the Gilera Runner and the Italjet Dragster both water cooled 2 strokes? At least the 180's.

Yep, the 180's were. Same motor in both. And both wicked fast.

Ahhh... so I did remember rightly! Wicked fast, indeed. Wouldn't mind finding one (Dragster) one of these days (I do so hate being poor... )


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Heh, I totally understand. There's a Dragster that pops up on Craigslist in my area from time to time... I never have the money to pick it up though

[Roose Hurro]

Yep, the 180's were. Same motor in both. And both wicked fast.

Ahhh... so I did remember rightly! Wicked fast, indeed. Wouldn't mind finding one (Dragster) one of these days (I do so hate being poor... )


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Heh, I totally understand. There's a Dragster that pops up on Craigslist in my area from time to time... I never have the money to pick it up though

I just remember the Dragster I saw "in the flesh" many years ago, one of the most well designed/styled scoots I've ever seen... just loved the look.


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[ericalm]

There are several Dragsters in SoCal now. I think someone's bringing them in and selling "grey market" Dragsters.

They're freaking awesome. Even the vintage guys seem to go nuts for them. They're crazy fast!

[jrsjr]

... I just keep thinking how the original and "clone" P-series Vespas were limited in their high-speed touring use by the air-cooled nature of their engines. Liquid cooling seems the best way to avoid the overheating and siezing problems inherent in an air-cooled 2T. Would seem to be the best of both worlds, better high-speed durability, coupled with the ease of 2T performance tuning. Sure would make for an interesting ride!

Ah, I think I see what you're after. If you really want to run a P series (or other 2 stroke) bike hard, there's a trick to that. The 2004 Cannonball was organized (and won) by a guy named Mike Heytens who had a pretty good solution for that problem. He used an Exhaust Gas Thermometer (EGT) to monitor the temp of the exhaust very close to the cylinder. He had figured out exactly how hot he could run the motor so he could jet to keep it right on the hairy edge of soft seizing (and make it as fast as possible at every altitude and ambient temperature).

It's not complicated to do. Basically, you drill a hole in your pipe near the cylinder and weld on a nut that accepts the threaded thermocouple. "Thermocouple" is just a fancy name for two wires made of different materials that are welded together at a junction point. When that welded junction gets hot it producess a characteristic electrical voltage that corresponds to the temperature. The wires hook to a gauge that is just a voltmeter calibrated in temperature units (the "EGT" gauge) that you install in your dash. Then you just monitor the temp and keep it well within safe limits. If things start to get a little warm, you can ease up a bit or go a little richer on the jetting and vice versa. It sounds like a lot of bother, but once it's installed and working, it's pretty much just another gauge you keep your eye on.

You could do this with any internal combustion engine. The airplane guys use them routinely. The gauge and thermocouple aren't expensive or hard to install. The hard part is figuring how hot you can run before you seize. Heytens posted this info (including a discussion of safe temperatures) way back in the day. I didn't keep a copy, but it might be possible to find it if you're interested.

[scootertuner1000]

There are tons of liquid cooled scooters. Almost all of the Italian scooters are liquid cooled, Most Japanese scoots and a variety of Korean etc.

Examples:
Manufacturer Aprilia Benelli Beta CPI Daelim Derbi Garelli Gilera Honda Italjet Kymco KTM Malaguti MBK (formerly Motobécane) Peugeot Piaggio Sach Suzuki Yamaha

All of the makes have at least one 50cc liquid/water cooled scooter in their lineups

[jmkjr72]

There are tons of liquid cooled scooters. Almost all of the Italian scooters are liquid cooled, Most Japanese scoots and a variety of Korean etc.

Examples:
Manufacturer Aprilia Benelli Beta CPI Daelim Derbi Garelli Gilera Honda Italjet Kymco KTM Malaguti MBK (formerly Motobécane) Peugeot Piaggio Sach Suzuki Yamaha

All of the makes have at least one 50cc liquid/water cooled scooter in their lineups

yes but most of them dont make it to the us
heck honda doesnt even sell any 2 strokes in the us anymore
all the us kymco 2 strokes are ac now
sach the last time i looked only imported ac 2 strokes
yamahas only 2 stroke 50 in its line up is ac
suzuki doesnt bring 50s into the us any more
isnt all of piaggio us line up 4 stroke now

we dont get anything good in the us

[bigbropgo]

SBL had a lc big bore for sale back when he supported the rattler (snicker). I wonder what his hook up was. I'll have to email him and see if he could point me in the right direction.

[scootertuner1000]

There are tons of liquid cooled scooters. Almost all of the Italian scooters are liquid cooled, Most Japanese scoots and a variety of Korean etc.

Examples:
Manufacturer Aprilia Benelli Beta CPI Daelim Derbi Garelli Gilera Honda Italjet Kymco KTM Malaguti MBK (formerly Motobécane) Peugeot Piaggio Sach Suzuki Yamaha

All of the makes have at least one 50cc liquid/water cooled scooter in their lineups

yes but most of them dont make it to the us
heck honda doesnt even sell any 2 strokes in the us anymore
all the us kymco 2 strokes are ac now
sach the last time i looked only imported ac 2 strokes
yamahas only 2 stroke 50 in its line up is ac

That's all true, but the guy just wanted to know about LC 2 stroke scooters, and there are tons of them. The only ones that make it to the USA as far as I am aware are the Aprilia RS50 and SR50.
suzuki doesnt bring 50s into the us any more

isnt all of piaggio us line up 4 stroke now

we dont get anything good in the us

Now you do have the option of importing as parts in a couple of boxes and then reassembling here. You can then register them in the USA using International Title Service in Las Vegas, they are on the web.
You just give them the year of MFG. A notorized bill of sale (so you have a bill of sale that a friend is selling it to you and get that notorized)

And international title service will get you a title and reg plate etc. (usually from Maine) when that expires take it into your DMV and switch it to whatever state you actually live in and now it's in the USA and legal.
I did it with my GT380 Suzuki 2 stroke triple. When you look at my GT380 video you will see it has a Maine plate, I live in NC.
You can pick up all the really good 2 stroke scooter on e-bay.co.uk.

[Kaos]

There are tons of liquid cooled scooters. Almost all of the Italian scooters are liquid cooled, Most Japanese scoots and a variety of Korean etc.

Examples:
Manufacturer Aprilia Benelli Beta CPI Daelim Derbi Garelli Gilera Honda Italjet Kymco KTM Malaguti MBK (formerly Motobécane) Peugeot Piaggio Sach Suzuki Yamaha

All of the makes have at least one 50cc liquid/water cooled scooter in their lineups

yes but most of them dont make it to the us
heck honda doesnt even sell any 2 strokes in the us anymore
all the us kymco 2 strokes are ac now
sach the last time i looked only imported ac 2 strokes
yamahas only 2 stroke 50 in its line up is ac

That's all true, but the guy just wanted to know about LC 2 stroke scooters, and there are tons of them. The only ones that make it to the USA as far as I am aware are the Aprilia RS50 and SR50.
suzuki doesnt bring 50s into the us any more

isnt all of piaggio us line up 4 stroke now

we dont get anything good in the us

Now you do have the option of importing as parts in a couple of boxes and then reassembling here. You can then register them in the USA using International Title Service in Las Vegas, they are on the web.
You just give them the year of MFG. A notorized bill of sale (so you have a bill of sale that a friend is selling it to you and get that notorized)

And international title service will get you a title and reg plate etc. (usually from Maine) when that expires take it into your DMV and switch it to whatever state you actually live in and now it's in the USA and legal.
I did it with my GT380 Suzuki 2 stroke triple. When you look at my GT380 video you will see it has a Maine plate, I live in NC.
You can pick up all the really good 2 stroke scooter on e-bay.co.uk.

Hmm, thats something I'd not thought of. I know someone who got a Japanese Spec Toyota Supra into the states that way, so it should work just as well on a scooter.... I'm still trying to get the supercharger setup from the Pugeot Jetforce though, so some of them can be hard to get even outa Europe.

[Lostmycage]

Hmm, thats something I'd not thought of. I know someone who got a Japanese Spec Toyota Supra into the states that way, so it should work just as well on a scooter.... I'm still trying to get the supercharger setup from the Pugeot Jetforce though, so some of them can be hard to get even outa Europe.

OOooOO, any new leads on that assembly? I'd all but forgotten about that, hehe.

[Kaos]

Hmm, thats something I'd not thought of. I know someone who got a Japanese Spec Toyota Supra into the states that way, so it should work just as well on a scooter.... I'm still trying to get the supercharger setup from the Pugeot Jetforce though, so some of them can be hard to get even outa Europe.

OOooOO, any new leads on that assembly? I'd all but forgotten about that, hehe.

I've found a few parts houses that will sell them but none of them ship to the states. I do however have a friend in England that I might be able to talk into shipping it for me.... It's been mighty tempting to do either that or swap in the 250cc GY6 I've recently found....

[bigbropgo]

Ya know....that swap would look sweet with some drop bars.

[Lostmycage]

Might be too much engine for a Buddy frame. At least for an everyday commuter. Kaos... I think it's time you got a second scooter to Frankenstein out. Of course... if you ended up with a stretched frame, that might be a different beast altogether.... but a beast is a beast.

[scootertuner1000]

Might be too much engine for a Buddy frame. At least for an everyday commuter. Kaos... I think it's time you got a second scooter to Frankenstein out. Of course... if you ended up with a stretched frame, that might be a different beast altogether.... but a beast is a beast.

The frame can cope with it. I added bracing to prevent frame flex.
The 110cc engine is a long crankcase engine and the 50 is a short, so that in conjunction with the much bigger back tire means the frame has been wheelbase has been stretched quite a bit. The origial mud flap at the back no longer fits as the rear wheel sticks out too far. I have a hugger fender for the rear wheel on order and an underseat panel is going in too, to give it a clean look under the seat (you can see under the seat now, the bigger back wheel and bigger shock jack the back up a good couple of inches) and protect the electrics, fuel pump etc.

[scootertuner1000]

Might be too much engine for a Buddy frame. At least for an everyday commuter. Kaos... I think it's time you got a second scooter to Frankenstein out. Of course... if you ended up with a stretched frame, that might be a different beast altogether.... but a beast is a beast.

My next Frankie is going to be a small frame Vespa from 1969. 125cc Rotax Kart engine, good for over 100mph.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEgXSXvKFt8

[Kaos]

Might be too much engine for a Buddy frame. At least for an everyday commuter. Kaos... I think it's time you got a second scooter to Frankenstein out. Of course... if you ended up with a stretched frame, that might be a different beast altogether.... but a beast is a beast.

Yeah.... I know.... But I've nearly got the wife talked into a Stella, so I might have that covered.... She wants me to sell my '70 Plymouth to pay for it though

Its just so hard to NOT tinker on anything thats got an engine in it
Of course thats why my previous daily driver(The previously mentioned '70 Plymouth) is a barely streetable Pro-Street racecar now....

[Kaos]

Might be too much engine for a Buddy frame. At least for an everyday commuter. Kaos... I think it's time you got a second scooter to Frankenstein out. Of course... if you ended up with a stretched frame, that might be a different beast altogether.... but a beast is a beast.

My next Frankie is going to be a small frame Vespa from 1969. 125cc Rotax Kart engine, good for over 100mph.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEgXSXvKFt8

I've seen that one before, its one of my favorite engine swaps... I looked into Rotax's engines a bit after I saw it. They put out quite a lot of power from very small displacements on those things!

[Anachronism]

... I just keep thinking how the original and "clone" P-series Vespas were limited in their high-speed touring use by the air-cooled nature of their engines. Liquid cooling seems the best way to avoid the overheating and siezing problems inherent in an air-cooled 2T. Would seem to be the best of both worlds, better high-speed durability, coupled with the ease of 2T performance tuning. Sure would make for an interesting ride!

Ah, I think I see what you're after. If you really want to run a P series (or other 2 stroke) bike hard, there's a trick to that. The 2004 Cannonball was organized (and won) by a guy named Mike Heytens who had a pretty good solution for that problem. He used an Exhaust Gas Thermometer (EGT) to monitor the temp of the exhaust very close to the cylinder. He had figured out exactly how hot he could run the motor so he could jet to keep it right on the hairy edge of soft seizing (and make it as fast as possible at every altitude and ambient temperature).

It's not complicated to do. Basically, you drill a hole in your pipe near the cylinder and weld on a nut that accepts the threaded thermocouple. "Thermocouple" is just a fancy name for two wires made of different materials that are welded together at a junction point. When that welded junction gets hot it producess a characteristic electrical voltage that corresponds to the temperature. The wires hook to a gauge that is just a voltmeter calibrated in temperature units (the "EGT" gauge) that you install in your dash. Then you just monitor the temp and keep it well within safe limits. If things start to get a little warm, you can ease up a bit or go a little richer on the jetting and vice versa. It sounds like a lot of bother, but once it's installed and working, it's pretty much just another gauge you keep your eye on.

You could do this with any internal combustion engine. The airplane guys use them routinely. The gauge and thermocouple aren't expensive or hard to install. The hard part is figuring how hot you can run before you seize. Heytens posted this info (including a discussion of safe temperatures) way back in the day. I didn't keep a copy, but it might be possible to find it if you're interested.

Guys running hot-rodded turbocharged cars do the EGT thing all the time. Typically once they install an EGT, they tune towards EGT temp (keeping it just cool enough to avoid melting parts) rather than looking at air/fuel mixes. The rule is, the leaner the better, until you start breaking things.

[ericalm]

Might be too much engine for a Buddy frame. At least for an everyday commuter. Kaos... I think it's time you got a second scooter to Frankenstein out. Of course... if you ended up with a stretched frame, that might be a different beast altogether.... but a beast is a beast.

My next Frankie is going to be a small frame Vespa from 1969. 125cc Rotax Kart engine, good for over 100mph.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEgXSXvKFt8

I've seen that one before, its one of my favorite engine swaps... I looked into Rotax's engines a bit after I saw it. They put out quite a lot of power from very small displacements on those things!

Wish I could get my hands on an Aprilia 'Beo with a Rotax. Have to say, that engine probably kicks the butt of the Piaggio ones in there now.

("Wish I could get my hands on" means I probably could if I actually tried and had unlimited income.)

[Roose Hurro]

There are several Dragsters in SoCal now. I think someone's bringing them in and selling "grey market" Dragsters.

They're freaking awesome. Even the vintage guys seem to go nuts for them. They're crazy fast!

Only problem with something "Grey Market" is the registration situation you'd get into with one, far as I know. Of course, if you only ever intended to race the bike, that wouldn't really matter, but any bike I get will need to be legally roadable. Finding an old 180 Dragster in Cali would be neat, though. Even neater if I had the cash for it. Ahhh, well!

... I just keep thinking how the original and "clone" P-series Vespas were limited in their high-speed touring use by the air-cooled nature of their engines. Liquid cooling seems the best way to avoid the overheating and siezing problems inherent in an air-cooled 2T. Would seem to be the best of both worlds, better high-speed durability, coupled with the ease of 2T performance tuning. Sure would make for an interesting ride!

Ah, I think I see what you're after. If you really want to run a P series (or other 2 stroke) bike hard, there's a trick to that. The 2004 Cannonball was organized (and won) by a guy named Mike Heytens who had a pretty good solution for that problem. He used an Exhaust Gas Thermometer (EGT) to monitor the temp of the exhaust very close to the cylinder. He had figured out exactly how hot he could run the motor so he could jet to keep it right on the hairy edge of soft seizing (and make it as fast as possible at every altitude and ambient temperature).

It's not complicated to do. Basically, you drill a hole in your pipe near the cylinder and weld on a nut that accepts the threaded thermocouple. "Thermocouple" is just a fancy name for two wires made of different materials that are welded together at a junction point. When that welded junction gets hot it producess a characteristic electrical voltage that corresponds to the temperature. The wires hook to a gauge that is just a voltmeter calibrated in temperature units (the "EGT" gauge) that you install in your dash. Then you just monitor the temp and keep it well within safe limits. If things start to get a little warm, you can ease up a bit or go a little richer on the jetting and vice versa. It sounds like a lot of bother, but once it's installed and working, it's pretty much just another gauge you keep your eye on.

You could do this with any internal combustion engine. The airplane guys use them routinely. The gauge and thermocouple aren't expensive or hard to install. The hard part is figuring how hot you can run before you seize. Heytens posted this info (including a discussion of safe temperatures) way back in the day. I didn't keep a copy, but it might be possible to find it if you're interested.

Given my present lack of funds and inability to predict the future, who knows, my first scoot may end up being an old Vespa or other air-cooled two-stroker, so, yes, it would be nice to still be able to do some high-speed touring, without ruining my engine. So, thanks for all the info! And even if I do end up with my air-cooled, four-stroke Symba, this sounds like a good way to aid longevity. Along with the possible fitting of an oil cooler...

... oh, yes, if you could find that info, that would be great. Thanks! The one part of the Symba I don't much care for is the speedo/fuel guage "cluster"... it would be a nice custom touch to have full instrumentation (speedo-odo-trip/tach/oil temp-pressure/fuel/EGT/volt-amp meter/Hobbs-meter).

There are tons of liquid cooled scooters. Almost all of the Italian scooters are liquid cooled, Most Japanese scoots and a variety of Korean etc.

Examples:
Manufacturer Aprilia Benelli Beta CPI Daelim Derbi Garelli Gilera Honda Italjet Kymco KTM Malaguti MBK (formerly Motobécane) Peugeot Piaggio Sach Suzuki Yamaha

All of the makes have at least one 50cc liquid/water cooled scooter in their lineups

yes but most of them dont make it to the us
heck honda doesnt even sell any 2 strokes in the us anymore
all the us kymco 2 strokes are ac now
sach the last time i looked only imported ac 2 strokes
yamahas only 2 stroke 50 in its line up is ac
suzuki doesnt bring 50s into the us any more
isnt all of piaggio us line up 4 stroke now

we dont get anything good in the us

And we don't get anything bigger in a two-stroker, either.

yes but most of them dont make it to the us
heck honda doesnt even sell any 2 strokes in the us anymore
all the us kymco 2 strokes are ac now
sach the last time i looked only imported ac 2 strokes
yamahas only 2 stroke 50 in its line up is ac

That's all true, but the guy just wanted to know about LC 2 stroke scooters, and there are tons of them. The only ones that make it to the USA as far as I am aware are the Aprilia RS50 and SR50.
suzuki doesnt bring 50s into the us any more

isnt all of piaggio us line up 4 stroke now

we dont get anything good in the us

Now you do have the option of importing as parts in a couple of boxes and then reassembling here. You can then register them in the USA using International Title Service in Las Vegas, they are on the web.
You just give them the year of MFG. A notorized bill of sale (so you have a bill of sale that a friend is selling it to you and get that notorized)

And international title service will get you a title and reg plate etc. (usually from Maine) when that expires take it into your DMV and switch it to whatever state you actually live in and now it's in the USA and legal.
I did it with my GT380 Suzuki 2 stroke triple. When you look at my GT380 video you will see it has a Maine plate, I live in NC.
You can pick up all the really good 2 stroke scooter on e-bay.co.uk.

Hmm, thats something I'd not thought of. I know someone who got a Japanese Spec Toyota Supra into the states that way, so it should work just as well on a scooter.... I'm still trying to get the supercharger setup from the Pugeot Jetforce though, so some of them can be hard to get even outa Europe.

Trouble is, I'm not one to buy a vehicle sight unseen. And I'm not too hot about "importing" a vehicle in such a manner as scootertuner proposes. Not to mention Maine is on the east coast and I'm on the west. Not to mention, when my time comes, my budget will be tight, and I can imagine that all this sidestepping will cost dearly.

Might be too much engine for a Buddy frame. At least for an everyday commuter. Kaos... I think it's time you got a second scooter to Frankenstein out. Of course... if you ended up with a stretched frame, that might be a different beast altogether.... but a beast is a beast.

My next Frankie is going to be a small frame Vespa from 1969. 125cc Rotax Kart engine, good for over 100mph.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEgXSXvKFt8

I've seen that one before, its one of my favorite engine swaps... I looked into Rotax's engines a bit after I saw it. They put out quite a lot of power from very small displacements on those things!

Woah, that would, indeed, be a neat swap... put that puppy in a Buddy Blackjack, and see what it would do! Though I do like the Vespa idea... and it could work with a new Stella, too, I'd imagine. Wonder if a Rotax would fit on a Symba...?

My next Frankie is going to be a small frame Vespa from 1969. 125cc Rotax Kart engine, good for over 100mph.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEgXSXvKFt8

I've seen that one before, its one of my favorite engine swaps... I looked into Rotax's engines a bit after I saw it. They put out quite a lot of power from very small displacements on those things!

Wish I could get my hands on an Aprilia 'Beo with a Rotax. Have to say, that engine probably kicks the butt of the Piaggio ones in there now.

("Wish I could get my hands on" means I probably could if I actually tried and had unlimited income.)

Same here, or should I say?... "As would we all."


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