Prima Stage 1 Kit

paikkylee · Post by **paikkylee** » Fri Apr 02, 2010 7:29 pm

So, I've got the Prima Stage 1 kit and was wondering if anyone knows what weight rollers come in that? I'm looking to get some Dr. Pulleys, but am not sure where I'm starting from.

I'm sure this has been asked before, but for the life of me and the search, I can't find it.

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:37 pm

The rollers in the kit are complete crap and wear off within a few hundred miles of use. You're smart to look into Dr. Pulley's, they are the best you can get! (although NCY rollers are good too, but I prefer sliders myself)

I cannot remember the weights used in the stage 1 kit, but if you want to replace them now with Dr. Pulley's look here for the cheapest price and best service: http://www.buggypartsnw.com/home?page=s ... gory_id=16

Look into 11G or 12G rollers, and possibly a Dr. Pulley variator kit for $90. The kit makes the most use out of the slider's shape, so you get max performance out of them.

Anachronism · Post by **Anachronism** » Sat Apr 03, 2010 12:31 am

The weights are 5 grams, and are way, way, too light. Running half of the lighter rollers with the stock ones is a good mix. I have no idea why they chose those rollers.

It would be better to buy other rollers.

ScooterTrash · Post by **ScooterTrash** » Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:09 am

jfrost2 wrote:The rollers in the kit are complete crap and wear off within a few hundred miles of use. You're smart to look into Dr. Pulley's, they are the best you can get! (although NCY rollers are good too, but I prefer sliders myself)

I cannot remember the weights used in the stage 1 kit, but if you want to replace them now with Dr. Pulley's look here for the cheapest price and best service: http://www.buggypartsnw.com/home?page=s ... gory_id=16

Look into 11G or 12G rollers, and possibly a Dr. Pulley variator kit for $90. The kit makes the most use out of the slider's shape, so you get max performance out of them.

NCY rollers suck too, If you don't believe me I'll go take a picture of my 500 mile flat rollers

Get the Dr. pulley sliders

jmkjr72 · Post by **jmkjr72** » Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:39 am

Anachronism wrote:The weights are 5 grams, and are way, way, too light. Running half of the lighter rollers with the stock ones is a good mix. I have no idea why they chose those rollers.

It would be better to buy other rollers.

we get the same thing with the pipes for the zuma the rollers that leo vince sends with are way to light

i do not recomend running mixed rollers it is easier for them to jam and the heavier ones will flat spot faster

you can tune with mixed rollers to find out what weight you need but once you know that order a good set of rollers in the proper size
(total weight devided by 6)

from my experiance for most mild 70 and 50s with pipes 6.0 or 6.5 grams end up about right

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Sat Apr 03, 2010 2:05 am

ScooterTrash wrote:
jfrost2 wrote:The rollers in the kit are complete crap and wear off within a few hundred miles of use. You're smart to look into Dr. Pulley's, they are the best you can get! (although NCY rollers are good too, but I prefer sliders myself)

I cannot remember the weights used in the stage 1 kit, but if you want to replace them now with Dr. Pulley's look here for the cheapest price and best service: http://www.buggypartsnw.com/home?page=s ... gory_id=16

Look into 11G or 12G rollers, and possibly a Dr. Pulley variator kit for $90. The kit makes the most use out of the slider's shape, so you get max performance out of them.
NCY rollers suck too, If you don't believe me I'll go take a picture of my 500 mile flat rollers

Get the Dr. pulley sliders

Really? This amazes me. I've always heard good reviews of them, but never long term reviews. I guess Dr. Pulley still is the champ in the long run.

paikkylee · Post by **paikkylee** » Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:54 pm

Thanks for the info. 5g seems like a big drop from the 9.5g stock rollers. When I had the Stage 1 installed, it seemed to actually bog down off the line with the stock cylinder and even after having the 70cc Malossi installed it's sluggish from 0-5mph.

Do you think that it's just the rollers, or could the clutch spring have some thing to do with that too?

Thanks for the info, this is great help for me!

jmkjr72 · Post by **jmkjr72** » Sat Apr 03, 2010 5:40 pm

sounds like your clutch springs are not stiff enough
what do you have for clutch springs in there with a pipe you need a medium spring you can get by on stock and with a pipe and kit you need at least a medium spring to get the revs up and get into the power band

the best way to tune you roller weight is with a tach
you should see a nice steady rpm climb and the rpms should hold at there max
if the revs peak very fast you are too light
if the revs climb and dive you are too heavy

paikkylee · Post by **paikkylee** » Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:25 pm

The spring in there is the one that came with the Stage 1 pipe kit, and like the rollers lacks a spec in any of the product descriptions. So, I'm not quite sure what it is, but I know where it came from.

jmkjr72 · Post by **jmkjr72** » Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:30 pm

this is the down side to buying stuff in a kit you dont know exactly what you get

stop by your local shop and get some medium and stiff clutch springs and give them a shot

paikkylee · Post by **paikkylee** » Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:41 pm

Medium = 1500, and Stiff = 2000?

No more all-in-one kits for me. I'm figuring I'm going to replace all but the pipe with other parts.

jmkjr72 · Post by **jmkjr72** » Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:36 pm

thats proably right it will depend upon the brand that you get as to how they are rated some rate soft medium and hard/stiff

so you need to look at what the brand has to offer to figure out what the 2 strongest springs are

i would start with the mid range spring and if you still have lag give the stiffest ones a try
but remember you are going to have to rev it higher to get the clutch to engage

paikkylee · Post by **paikkylee** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 3:51 pm

Thanks for the advice. I've just ordered the 1500 and 2000 spring from Scooterworks. The 1500 is backordered, but I'll give the 2000 a try and see what that does for me.

For those that are wondering, the spring in the kit is a 1000.

One last question from the novice to the gurus. Do I need to take the variator and belt off to get the clutch off, or can I leave those on when I do the torque spring swap?

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:39 pm

paikkylee wrote:Thanks for the advice. I've just ordered the 1500 and 2000 spring from Scooterworks. The 1500 is backordered, but I'll give the 2000 a try and see what that does for me.

For those that are wondering, the spring in the kit is a 1000.

One last question from the novice to the gurus. Do I need to take the variator and belt off to get the clutch off, or can I leave those on when I do the torque spring swap?

Yes, you'll have to take the variator and belt out to change the clutch spring.

Be sure you know what you're getting into with the spring change if you're doing it yourself. There's a few decent videos on youtube - just search for GY6 clutch spring (the engine be slightly different as most of those are based on a 150cc 4-stroke, but the method is the same with the clutch system).

Be very aware that the spring is under pressure and when you're taking it apart, keep it covered as you're loosening it.

DO NOT aim it at your FACE.

The Spring has enough pressure to send the clutch flying across the garage.

paikkylee · Post by **paikkylee** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:22 pm

Almost sounds worth a black eye for the comedy (almost).

Thanks for the sage advice.

I was going to follow the instructions here to do it:
http://www.provoscooter.com/stage-one-installation

Seems pretty detailed (and it does say to keep pressure on the clutch while taking it apart). It's not a Buddy, but after seeing the guts of my machine, it's not much different.

Before I do that, I'll have to figure out what that ping was right before she stopped running today...

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:32 pm

That's a very good breakdown of the steps involved.

On the clutch, once I have the nut loosened (make a witness mark before you loosen it if it didn't come from the factory with one), I awkwardly put my right foot on the right side, left hand on the left side and take the retention nut off with my right hand while keeping very firm pressure on the clutch - enough that the nut spins without contacting the clutch. Once the nut is off, I put my right hand on before taking my right foot off, then slowly let off pressure.

It's certainly not the most graceful way, it's not the best way, but it is fast.

Keep in mind if you go that route, it's not your face that it's aimed at.

paikkylee · Post by **paikkylee** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:43 pm

ATGATT +cup it is then.

paikkylee · Post by **paikkylee** » Wed May 05, 2010 2:24 pm

So, taking the clutch apart was harder than I expected, but easier than getting it back together

I installed a set of 1500 RPM springs and took it for a ride. Definitely improved off the line, but it's still a little sluggish. I'm going to take it apart again and add a 2000 RPM torque spring and see how that helps. It seems like the 1000 RPM spring in there holds the RPMs a little below the power band, so hopefully that will give the little buddy more kick off the line and beyond.

paikkylee · Post by **paikkylee** » Wed May 05, 2010 2:27 pm

More details.

The rollers had flat spots in them as expected.
The clutch bell also had bluish markings in it and was pretty dirty. I cleaned out the bell with some brake cleaner, but didn't do anything to the shoes, which are shiny as all get out and seem like they would slip pretty easily.

Any recommendations on what if anything can / should be done to clean up the shoes?

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Wed May 05, 2010 5:25 pm

Lostmycage wrote:That's a very good breakdown of the steps involved.

On the clutch, once I have the nut loosened (make a witness mark before you loosen it if it didn't come from the factory with one), I awkwardly put my right foot on the right side, left hand on the left side and take the retention nut off with my right hand while keeping very firm pressure on the clutch - enough that the nut spins without contacting the clutch. Once the nut is off, I put my right hand on before taking my right foot off, then slowly let off pressure.

It's certainly not the most graceful way, it's not the best way, but it is fast. Keep in mind if you go that route, it's not your face that it's aimed at.

Heh, thats basically what I do as well. Its fast, and easy.