Upgraded CDI/coil and iridium plug - first impressions

[Tocsik]

I upgraded to the Bando racing CDI and coil and changed my plug to an NGK Iridium.
I rode to work this a.m. on my usual route and thought I would post my initial thoughts on this "upgrade".

First off, I have been thinking of re-jetting as my scooter seems to bog at higher speeds or wider throttle positions. But, my Prima pipe is a very nice golden color so I haven't gotten around to re-jetting yet as there is no bluing after thousands of miles with the pipe.

This morning, I was actually very surprised at the difference. The idle and initial throttle response is smoother (maybe that's just the plug). The 35 - 50 bmph range is significantly improved with much better power. The stretch of road that I usually get to "wind it out" was, unfortunately, off limits this morning as I was riding along side a motorcycle cop . When I had it at ~60 bmph, it felt like there was much more available to me but I didn't get to check.

I will ride for a few more days and hopefully with different weather conditions and update the post. The weather seems to really effect my scooter's performance which was another reason for considering a re-jet.

Thanks to cheez37 for the excellent write for this very easy and inexpensive upgrade (see tech section).

[bgwss]

Thanks for the post, love to hear how this progresses.

[cheez37]

...Thanks to cheez37 for the excellent write for this very easy and inexpensive upgrade (see tech section).

Glad I could help. Nice to pay back the forum for all of the help I have gotten of MB.

[PIStaker]

Any new feedback on the cdi change?

[Tocsik]

I've gone about 50 miles each day and there is definitely a difference. I thought it would be more subtle but glad to be wrong.

We have been getting a lot of humidity here so I was going to wait for more variation in the weather before posting but it's actually a good test (it's pouring rain right now so I'm sitting at work hoping for a let-up!) .

Generally, my scooter has run better in hot, dry weather and seemed to perform more sluggish with "heavy" air - cold temps or humidity. This was making me ready to up-jet even though my Prima pipe is nice and golden colored. But, even with the humidity, I have been hitting higher speeds than I am used to on my usual rides. I suppose just changing the plug could have helped but I think there is a bit more improvement than a plug alone would have provided.

Again, this was relatively cheap ($9 for the plug and less than 30 for the coil and CDI) and took just a few minutes to complete.

What I would like to know is should I be concerned about anything bad that could result from changing the ignition timing? I've heard overheating is a possibility and these motors already seem to run pretty hot. They sure don't get near as much air flow as a regular MC since the motor is enclosed.

[PIStaker]

I've gone about 50 miles each day and there is definitely a difference. I thought it would be more subtle but glad to be wrong.

We have been getting a lot of humidity here so I was going to wait for more variation in the weather before posting but it's actually a good test (it's pouring rain right now so I'm sitting at work hoping for a let-up!) .

Generally, my scooter has run better in hot, dry weather and seemed to perform more sluggish with "heavy" air - cold temps or humidity. This was making me ready to up-jet even though my Prima pipe is nice and golden colored. But, even with the humidity, I have been hitting higher speeds than I am used to on my usual rides. I suppose just changing the plug could have helped but I think there is a bit more improvement than a plug alone would have provided.

You may want to consult with Kaos on the overheating issue. I shared the same concern. I had this conversation with Gearhead when we went riding. I was concerned that I might overheat with the upgraded CDI and coil, but I believe he said that Kaos was putting it to the acid test and it passed.
Don't quote me on that though.

Again, this was relatively cheap ($9 for the plug and less than 30 for the coil and CDI) and took just a few minutes to complete.

What I would like to know is should I be concerned about anything bad that could result from changing the ignition timing? I've heard overheating is a possibility and these motors already seem to run pretty hot. They sure don't get near as much air flow as a regular MC since the motor is enclosed.

Interesting. I swear I typed some really insightful stuff that somehow didn't make it's way in the last post.
At any rate, what I said was something to the effect that I believe Kaos would be the person to consult for the answer. if I'm not mistaken, he actually tried to get a 125cc to reach it's melt down point with the upgraded CDI and wasn't able to achieve that.
You might ask him about that though.

[Tocsik]

I think there's an echo in here.
I think there's an echo in here.
I think there's an echo in here.
I think there's an echo in here.

[dawg onit]

[huskerchic]

Where did you get the CDI and coil? I'd like to upgrade mine as well. Thanks in advance!!

[Kaos]

I've gone about 50 miles each day and there is definitely a difference. I thought it would be more subtle but glad to be wrong.

We have been getting a lot of humidity here so I was going to wait for more variation in the weather before posting but it's actually a good test (it's pouring rain right now so I'm sitting at work hoping for a let-up!) .

Generally, my scooter has run better in hot, dry weather and seemed to perform more sluggish with "heavy" air - cold temps or humidity. This was making me ready to up-jet even though my Prima pipe is nice and golden colored. But, even with the humidity, I have been hitting higher speeds than I am used to on my usual rides. I suppose just changing the plug could have helped but I think there is a bit more improvement than a plug alone would have provided.

You may want to consult with Kaos on the overheating issue. I shared the same concern. I had this conversation with Gearhead when we went riding. I was concerned that I might overheat with the upgraded CDI and coil, but I believe he said that Kaos was putting it to the acid test and it passed.
Don't quote me on that though.

Again, this was relatively cheap ($9 for the plug and less than 30 for the coil and CDI) and took just a few minutes to complete.

What I would like to know is should I be concerned about anything bad that could result from changing the ignition timing? I've heard overheating is a possibility and these motors already seem to run pretty hot. They sure don't get near as much air flow as a regular MC since the motor is enclosed.

Interesting. I swear I typed some really insightful stuff that somehow didn't make it's way in the last post.
At any rate, what I said was something to the effect that I believe Kaos would be the person to consult for the answer. if I'm not mistaken, he actually tried to get a 125cc to reach it's melt down point with the upgraded CDI and wasn't able to achieve that.
You might ask him about that though.

I wouldn't say I was explicitly TRYING to get it to reach it's meltdown point exactly More like the natural progression of things was headed that way.

Its not overheating that you need to worry about with an upgraded CDI, but pre-detonation, which can result in you blowing your piston to bits and other similar good times.

With the stock and non-adjustable performance CDI's you're never going to see this happen. The performance CDI's are only 3 degrees advanced over the stock, which is enough to see some noticeable performance improvements, but not close enough to detonation. I ran a non-adjustable performance CDI on my 88MPH runs, and never had any issues at all with them. I could cruise down the freeway at 75 all day long(I did for 40 miles once) so there's no need to worry about them.

The adjustable CDI's are a whole different story. The one I have can do 10 to 15 degrees advance, which is more than enough to pre-detonate easily.
These sorts of CDI's are not for your average tuner, and I can't recommend using them unless you REALLY understand how engine timing works and how to detect the signs of pre-detonation.

[PIStaker]

I've gone about 50 miles each day and there is definitely a difference. I thought it would be more subtle but glad to be wrong.

We have been getting a lot of humidity here so I was going to wait for more variation in the weather before posting but it's actually a good test (it's pouring rain right now so I'm sitting at work hoping for a let-up!) .

Generally, my scooter has run better in hot, dry weather and seemed to perform more sluggish with "heavy" air - cold temps or humidity. This was making me ready to up-jet even though my Prima pipe is nice and golden colored. But, even with the humidity, I have been hitting higher speeds than I am used to on my usual rides. I suppose just changing the plug could have helped but I think there is a bit more improvement than a plug alone would have provided.

You may want to consult with Kaos on the overheating issue. I shared the same concern. I had this conversation with Gearhead when we went riding. I was concerned that I might overheat with the upgraded CDI and coil, but I believe he said that Kaos was putting it to the acid test and it passed.
Don't quote me on that though.

Again, this was relatively cheap ($9 for the plug and less than 30 for the coil and CDI) and took just a few minutes to complete.

What I would like to know is should I be concerned about anything bad that could result from changing the ignition timing? I've heard overheating is a possibility and these motors already seem to run pretty hot. They sure don't get near as much air flow as a regular MC since the motor is enclosed.

Interesting. I swear I typed some really insightful stuff that somehow didn't make it's way in the last post.
At any rate, what I said was something to the effect that I believe Kaos would be the person to consult for the answer. if I'm not mistaken, he actually tried to get a 125cc to reach it's melt down point with the upgraded CDI and wasn't able to achieve that.
You might ask him about that though.

I wouldn't say I was explicitly TRYING to get it to reach it's meltdown point exactly More like the natural progression of things was headed that way.

Its not overheating that you need to worry about with an upgraded CDI, but pre-detonation, which can result in you blowing your piston to bits and other similar good times.

With the stock and non-adjustable performance CDI's you're never going to see this happen. The performance CDI's are only 3 degrees advanced over the stock, which is enough to see some noticeable performance improvements, but not close enough to detonation. I ran a non-adjustable performance CDI on my 88MPH runs, and never had any issues at all with them. I could cruise down the freeway at 75 all day long(I did for 40 miles once) so there's no need to worry about them.

The adjustable CDI's are a whole different story. The one I have can do 10 to 15 degrees advance, which is more than enough to pre-detonate easily.
These sorts of CDI's are not for your average tuner, and I can't recommend using them unless you REALLY understand how engine timing works and how to detect the signs of pre-detonation.

See.... exactly what I meant to say

[gearhead]

its like tapping a distributor forward on a car to get it to go faster. it's great for stop and go city driving.... but on the highway, it might overheat

[Tocsik]

Where did you get the CDI and coil? I'd like to upgrade mine as well. Thanks in advance!!

Good 'ol autotech355 on fleabay.

This one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 2328wt_898

Sorry, I don't know how to do the fancy "re-name the link trick".

[gearhead]

ordering one now

[Cheshire]

Good stuff.

[ksalen]

I bought the "autotech355" Bando coil and CDI for my 2008 Buddy 150. I installed the CDI only on Friday before my morning commute (Arlington, VA into Washington, DC). Upon first starting the engine, I immediately noticed that my idle speed increased quite a bit, as if it were on fast idle. I had to back the idle screw out a quarter turn to reduce the speed to where it had been. (Not sure what that is, no tach.)

What would any of you make of this? Was my previous CDI weak? Is this one that good?

I noticed during the only wide-open portion of my commute home, about a half mile of slight uphill, that my wide open top speed may have climbed a bit during this portion of the commute. But the butt dyno is very subject to subjective data, so who knows.

I installed the coil and a new iridium plug on Sunday. I haven't noticed any further difference yet, but my inbound commute is rather citified and there is no place to open it up until I head home.

[Kaos]

I bought the "autotech355" Bando coil and CDI for my 2008 Buddy 150. I installed the CDI only on Friday before my morning commute (Arlington, VA into Washington, DC). Upon first starting the engine, I immediately noticed that my idle speed increased quite a bit, as if it were on fast idle. I had to back the idle screw out a quarter turn to reduce the speed to where it had been. (Not sure what that is, no tach.)

What would any of you make of this? Was my previous CDI weak? Is this one that good?

I noticed during the only wide-open portion of my commute home, about a half mile of slight uphill, that my wide open top speed may have climbed a bit during this portion of the commute. But the butt dyno is very subject to subjective data, so who knows.

I installed the coil and a new iridium plug on Sunday. I haven't noticed any further difference yet, but my inbound commute is rather citified and there is no place to open it up until I head home.

Thats normal, the new CDI has advanced your timing, which tends to also increase idle.

[ksalen]

Thanks, Kaos.

I figured it was normal; the increased idle speed is part of what I remember from the good ol' pre-electronic days of loosening the distributor and advancing the timing of my first few cars. (That, and flipping the air cleaner lid over to increase airflow, and to make the ol' 2-bbl sound more like a 4-bbl carb.)

Of course, I also remember the subsequent tell-tale rattle of pre-ignition when under load, which told me to retard the timing as soon as possible. I'm a little worried that I won't hear such pre-ignition, if there is any, on the Buddy.

Further, I'm a little worried that my soon-to-install Dr. Pulley variator with 11g weights will push my RPM up, and combined with my no-rev-limit new Bando coil, will result in... no, I can't think of it.

Ken

[Kaos]

Thanks, Kaos.

I figured it was normal; the increased idle speed is part of what I remember from the good ol' pre-electronic days of loosening the distributor and advancing the timing of my first few cars. (That, and flipping the air cleaner lid over to increase airflow, and to make the ol' 2-bbl sound more like a 4-bbl carb.)

Of course, I also remember the subsequent tell-tale rattle of pre-ignition when under load, which told me to retard the timing as soon as possible. I'm a little worried that I won't hear such pre-ignition, if there is any, on the Buddy.

Further, I'm a little worried that my soon-to-install Dr. Pulley variator with 11g weights will push my RPM up, and combined with my no-rev-limit new Bando coil, will result in... no, I can't think of it.

Ken

Heh, you don't have to worry about that. Your motor even with those parts lacks the power to wind out and blow up

The CDI is only going 3 degrees advanced, so its only a little advance. The Dr Pulley variator with 11g weights is only just a hair more RPM than stock.

I wound mine up to 88mph with the stock rear gears(SCREAMING high RPM) and didn't blow it up. You'll be ok

[ilektron]

What kind of performance boost would this give an otherwise stock buddy? Seems like a cheap upgrade.