Buddy 170!

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:15 pm

The problem with SYM: Great scoots. Don't sell for crap in the US. The HD 200 is frequently described as one of the best scoots on the market and a great bargain, but it's ugly as sin and casual scooterists just aren't interested. Until Vespa bumped the GTS to a 300, the 300cc+ market was completely owned by Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki. They still rule the maxiscoot market in the US. SO… The only reason I could see for Genuine to get involved with SYM would be to put their engines in other models, either redesigned with Genuine's participation or to be built by LML or PGO.

SYM and Kymco both suffer from offering too many models here. They should have maybe four-five each. I continuously get the feeling that the honchos in Taiwan just don't get the US market at all.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:01 pm

Lostmycage wrote:...If SYM's US distribution hadn't gotten burned there'd be a comparable model since it's 171cc liquid-cooled HD200 was supposed to get Fuel Injection this year.

That was a heartbreak if ever there was one. Did anybody in the USA ever get one of the FI HD200s?

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:13 pm

jrsjr wrote:
Lostmycage wrote:...If SYM's US distribution hadn't gotten burned there'd be a comparable model since it's 171cc liquid-cooled HD200 was supposed to get Fuel Injection this year.
That was a heartbreak if ever there was one. Did anybody in the USA ever get one of the FI HD200s?

Did they ever come here?

I've also heard there are stockpiles of undistributed SYM scooters in the US. Huh.

killbilly · Post by **killbilly** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:50 am

ericalm wrote:
jrsjr wrote:
Lostmycage wrote:...If SYM's US distribution hadn't gotten burned there'd be a comparable model since it's 171cc liquid-cooled HD200 was supposed to get Fuel Injection this year.
That was a heartbreak if ever there was one. Did anybody in the USA ever get one of the FI HD200s?
Did they ever come here?

I've also heard there are stockpiles of undistributed SYM scooters in the US. Huh.

I don't know if they were FI models or not, but the HD200s are pretty common here in Austin. It's one of the top sellers at my dealer.

I had never heard of SYM before I bought my Blur, but they seemed like well-built machines.

The problem is that on the higher displacement, pricier end, they're much closer to HonKawaYamaZuki than on the low-end scooters, so they're harder to sell. Yammy's maxi-scoot (can't remember the name) is pretty darn sexy, and one I gave SERIOUS consideration to before buying.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:20 am

ericalm wrote:...The HD 200 is frequently described as one of the best scoots on the market and a great bargain, but it's ugly as sin...

Hey! I resemble that remark!

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:32 pm

Syd wrote:
ericalm wrote:...The HD 200 is frequently described as one of the best scoots on the market and a great bargain, but it's ugly as sin...
Hey! I resemble that remark!

Don't feel bad. The appearance of my MP3 is nothing to write home about either, but I do love it anyway!

fretman · Post by **fretman** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:54 am

Hey y'all, long time no post. Fuel injected two tone Buddy 170? Me likey. This may get me back in the Buddy club!

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:06 am

Dooglas wrote:
Syd wrote:
ericalm wrote:...The HD 200 is frequently described as one of the best scoots on the market and a great bargain, but it's ugly as sin...
Hey! I resemble that remark!
Don't feel bad. The appearance of my MP3 is nothing to write home about either, but I do love it anyway!

+1

mia_mali · Post by **mia_mali** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:18 am

I just literally squealed with delight. That brown one is sooooo beautiful. I NEEEEEEED ITTTTT

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:22 am

hey watch your scooter manners!

its not "brown."

it's cappuccino

MYSCTR · Post by **MYSCTR** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:55 am

Kaos wrote:I know with the ORIGINAL announcement about 1.5 years back, there was talk of dropping the 150's, since they're not a ton faster than the 125's. I don't however know if that's still on the table.

Check out the hint that slipped through the Genuine website under the 125 page:

Those looking for a bit of continental flair have four International models to choose from!

Hints to the new improved 170cc Internationals even though the Genuine website still shows the three 2009 models.

It will be interesting to see what 4 they come out with because we heard the St Tropaz was gone - yet nothing was said about the other two.

KABarash · Post by **KABarash** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:50 pm

JHScoot wrote:hey watch your scooter manners!

its not "brown."

it's cappuccino

I was thinking, 'Espresso'

GrittyTacoman · Post by **GrittyTacoman** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:56 pm

So if we assumed that the Cappaccino/Espresso/Brown one is the newest International, what place would it represent?

I already guessed their next one would be the Tehran edition. But I suppose it could also be Madagascar. Or Vatican City...

birdmove · Post by **birdmove** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:58 am

While the SYM HD200 certainly doesn't look like a "retro" scooter, I sure don't think they are ugly. My wife's 2008 model has been a great scooter. Fast as hell for a 163cc. Four valve head, water cooled, ceramic coated cylinder.Fun as heck to ride.It's got a kind of modernistic sports-scooter look. Kind of more like the Kymco Super 8 150. The SYM will easily cruise at 55-65 on the freeway.80+ mpg ain't bad. It's not hard to find a leftover 2008 or 2009 for $2200-$2600.

I like the retro models too. Their all good.

jon

jfrost2 · Post by **jfrost2** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:36 am

GrittyTacoman wrote:So if we assumed that the Cappaccino/Espresso/Brown one is the newest International, what place would it represent?

I already guessed their next one would be the Tehran edition. But I suppose it could also be Madagascar. Or Vatican City...

Columbia, because everyone loves real authentic columbian coffee!

JulietFitzie · Post by **JulietFitzie** » Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:15 am

Oh. My. God. I want it.

JulietFitzie · Post by **JulietFitzie** » Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:16 am

Wait so are those colors what the scoots will be offered in? As far as we know? Or did someone just make those up?

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:23 pm

JulietFitzie wrote:Wait so are those colors what the scoots will be offered in? As far as we know? Or did someone just make those up?

Nope, those are official colors. We should be getting better pics of them soon. These are photoshopped comps that were in an email to dealers soliciting orders.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:05 pm

how the hell did I miss this post! Well, guess that's one anti-resolution out the window. Not gonna bother modding the Buddy 50 any further, do I love her? Yes, but she's gotta go to make room for that absolutely beautiful british racing green Buddy 170! It will be hard to sell her but hey, a man's gotta do what a man's when he doesn't own a garage

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:24 pm

^ haha

i loved how all your resolutions were sort of "reverse resolutions" of things NOT TO DO figuring people usually don't stick to resolutions 100%, therefore giving you license to actually do all the things you said you wouldn't do

and now THIS!

i gotta love a guy who has all his bases covered so well

Happy New Year!

"no garage"

ha!

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:19 pm

GrittyTacoman wrote:So if we assumed that the Cappaccino/Espresso/Brown one is the newest International, what place would it represent?

I already guessed their next one would be the Tehran edition. But I suppose it could also be Madagascar. Or Vatican City...

Coffee is so universal, I think I'd skip the place name per se and go with something more generic like, ""Cafe Internationale," or something.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:35 pm

jrsjr wrote:Coffee is so universal, I think I'd skip the place name per se and go with something more generic like, ""Cafe Internationale," or something.

I like it!

killbilly · Post by **killbilly** » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:03 pm

jrsjr wrote:
GrittyTacoman wrote:So if we assumed that the Cappaccino/Espresso/Brown one is the newest International, what place would it represent?

I already guessed their next one would be the Tehran edition. But I suppose it could also be Madagascar. Or Vatican City...
Coffee is so universal, I think I'd skip the place name per se and go with something more generic like, ""Cafe Internationale," or something.

"We've taken this rider's ordinary scooter and subbed in the new Cappucino Buddy. Let's see if he can tell the difference..."

pdxrita · Post by **pdxrita** » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:18 pm

killbilly wrote:
jrsjr wrote:
GrittyTacoman wrote:So if we assumed that the Cappaccino/Espresso/Brown one is the newest International, what place would it represent?

I already guessed their next one would be the Tehran edition. But I suppose it could also be Madagascar. Or Vatican City...
Coffee is so universal, I think I'd skip the place name per se and go with something more generic like, ""Cafe Internationale," or something.
"We've taken this rider's ordinary scooter and subbed in the new Cappucino Buddy. Let's see if he can tell the difference..."

Please, oh please try to pull this prank on me. I swear I'll play along and make myself look really stupid in the process. It would make great TV.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:51 pm

Man, I'm glad I didn't see these things for the first time at the shop, I'd own one right now and probably be miss'n by Buddy 50 something aweful. They are so beautiful, but I have the sh150i and I have no idea what I'd do with one of these beauties other than ride it and half the fun is tinkering with them (although if I didn't have the sh150, one of these would be real appealing). whew! another scooter diaster avoided thanks to getting stdupid excited about a new scooter before I was put in the position to actually purchase it

Back to my anti-resolution, I think I'll order that Top Performance Trophey kit for the Buddy 50 next month before I have another moment of weakness

It's nice to know we will have some new body panels to play with though

pugbuddy · Post by **pugbuddy** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:04 am

*Bump*

Talked to the local dealer today and they said they have already ordered the new 170cc. They expect them to arrive in April!!! I've called dibs on a green one (although I told them I needed to know the price before committing cash)!

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:35 am

Not CARBed for CA yet.

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:54 am

my little Buddy is perfect, BUT that green is sooooo freaking sweet. can't wait until someone one here gets any 170 and reports back.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:21 am

I'm eager to see better pics of the real scooters!

Smiley13 · Post by **Smiley13** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:29 am

I wonderif they are going to offer computer upgrade or after market to boost the performence of the fuel Injection. I know the Zuma Fuel Injected has this option . I want the British Green

That Scooter Guy · Post by **That Scooter Guy** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:49 am

ericalm wrote:I'm eager to see better pics of the real scooters!

I'll be at the dealer show in Indianapolis this weekend. Genuine will be there, and they always bring scooters to display. If I were a betting man I'd guess that they will bring examples of their new 170s.

I'll post up any interesting photos I get.

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:15 pm

to clarify (I am not so smart when it comes to engines), is this a kitted 150? If not, where did this engine come from? I don't see any 170's on the PGO Bubu sites. I understand there is not a huge difference in performance b/t the 125 and 150. What can we expect with the 170? Faster off line, higher top end?

pugbuddy · Post by **pugbuddy** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:36 pm

Ah, lovely Peabody! Go back through this thread and you'll find the answers. Lots of discussion on the actual differences and expectations. If I was techy I could summarize it all but, sadly, I'm not....

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:54 pm

peabody99 wrote:to clarify (I am not so smart when it comes to engines), is this a kitted 150? If not, where did this engine come from? I don't see any 170's on the PGO Bubu sites. I understand there is not a huge difference in performance b/t the 125 and 150. What can we expect with the 170? Faster off line, higher top end?

They will probably get the extra CC's as on the other Buddys: larger bore. This is basically the same as "kitting"; it's using a larger head and cylinder. Displacement comes from bore, the diameter of the cylinder, and stroke, determined by the length of the crankshaft. You get higher displacement by increasing the bore but the amount of power you get depends on bore and stroke. A smaller crankshaft pushing a larger cylinder is less efficient than a larger shaft. That's why (for instance) my kitted LX190 has almost the same displacement as a GT200 but still less power.

The big difference here is fuel injection, which is much more efficient than a carburetor. Switching to fuel injection usually automatically means a boost in power, fuel economy and speed. It's also a bit quieter and a much smoother ride.

(That's a rather crude explanation but hopefully you get the gist!)

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:52 am

cool thanks. So is this made into a 170 in Taiwan? I am curious b/c PGO does not appear to offer this 170 yet in any of its models. I wonder if they have a special genuine laboratory in Taiwan for Genuine/US market...and if so does it contain the makings of our cruiser.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:20 am

peabody99 wrote: I wonder if they have a special genuine laboratory in Taiwan for Genuine/US market...and if so does it contain the makings of our cruiser.

Hmm, this sounds like a mission for jfrost2!

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:53 am

peabody99 wrote:cool thanks. So is this made into a 170 in Taiwan? I am curious b/c PGO does not appear to offer this 170 yet in any of its models. I wonder if they have a special genuine laboratory in Taiwan for Genuine/US market...and if so does it contain the makings of our cruiser.

Ha. There is a special lab out there (sort of) for the Genuine stuff. There are current Buddy configurations (150s, Blackjack) that are only available in the US. Maybe the 170 will be available elsewhere eventually…

The cruiser is going to be sold worldwide. Someday. But whatever currently exists was probably assembled in the same special laboratory.

vote4seth · Post by **vote4seth** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:06 pm

I just went to the shop and was about to buy a buddy italia until i saw this. Should i wait to buy one of these beauties or should i just go ahead and get a new italia for $2650? I live in utah at a semi high altitude.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:29 pm

Don't expect the same kind of discounts on the new 170s when they arrive that you can get on a 150 right now. For a while (especially this Spring and Summer), I imagine they will pretty much go for straight list. Your call on how long you want to wait and how much you want to pay for the latest and the greatest.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:13 pm

Dooglas wrote:Don't expect the same kind of discounts on the new 170s when they arrive that you can get on a 150 right now. For a while (especially this Spring and Summer), I imagine they will pretty much go for straight list. Your call on how long you want to wait and how much you want to pay for the latest and the greatest.

+1
2006-09 discounts on Buddys were rare! Depending on how many of these come over and how the market behaves over the next few months, I imagine these will be going for full price for a couple years at least.

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:54 pm

I think there will be some good deals to be had on new and used 125s and 150's once dealers (and customers!) need to make room for the 170's--- or maybe not b/c gas will be $5 plus a gallon about the time they hit the showroom floor.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:24 pm

Riding season is approaching and there are some good signs that the market is finally starting to regain its balance. I don't know if anyone will find better deals this year than what's available right now.

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:39 pm

jrsjr wrote:
peabody99 wrote: I wonder if they have a special genuine laboratory in Taiwan for Genuine/US market...and if so does it contain the makings of our cruiser.
Hmm, this sounds like a mission for jfrost2!

I say we send him in. He is still a minor right?

If caught, he would spend one night in Juvie tops.

GrittyTacoman · Post by **GrittyTacoman** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:23 am

peabody99 wrote:
jrsjr wrote:
peabody99 wrote: I wonder if they have a special genuine laboratory in Taiwan for Genuine/US market...and if so does it contain the makings of our cruiser.
Hmm, this sounds like a mission for jfrost2!
I say we send him in. He is still a minor right? If caught, he would spend one night in Juvie tops.

They might even just cane him and let him go. Oh wait, that's Singapore, isn't it?

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:41 am

GrittyTacoman wrote:
peabody99 wrote:
jrsjr wrote: Hmm, this sounds like a mission for jfrost2!
I say we send him in. He is still a minor right? If caught, he would spend one night in Juvie tops.
They might even just cane him and let him go. Oh wait, that's Singapore, isn't it?

well his recon was at scooterworks in Chi... I know some folks have tried to get into PGO in Taiwan to no avail.JF slipped behind the scenes and starting snapping pics.

Maybe genuine should do a Willy Wonka like contest for MB members. I think I might actually have the ambition and time to try and get cast for this.

BootScootin'FireFighter · Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:01 am

I wonder what the trade in value for my 2009 125 with almost 11k miles is worth towards the 170.

pugbuddy · Post by **pugbuddy** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:26 am

Dealer left me a message tonight to call him. He has some details on the new 170cc. I'll find out more in the morning!

pugbuddy · Post by **pugbuddy** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:37 pm

I'm going in to reserve my 170cc Buddy (in British Racing Green) tonight.

$3299; available in April! Looking forward to it!

EDIT: YOWCH! Insurance jump of $200+ a year if I buy the new Buddy! It costs twice as much to insure as my current 2007! Not sure if I can afford that.... Got some thinking to do....

BuddyLicious · Post by **BuddyLicious** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:14 pm

pugbuddy wrote:I'm going in to reserve my 170cc Buddy (in British Racing Green) tonight.

$3299; available in April! Looking forward to it!

EDIT: YOWCH! Insurance jump of $200+ a year if I buy the new Buddy! It costs twice as much to insure as my current 2007! Not sure if I can afford that.... Got some thinking to do....

Maybe shop around for other insurance,or do you have other things insured with this insurance company too?

So your Dealer is looking at April for the 170's huh,any further inside info you can give us?

pugbuddy · Post by **pugbuddy** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:19 pm

Nothing beyond that, I'm afraid. I was happy that the price was $3299. I expected it to be higher.

I'm considering selling my Buddy 125 once I get the new 170cc. It would save me $200 a year and I won't be riding it near as much afterward.... Decisions, decisions....

Modern Buddy

Buddy 170!

So sexy

whew!