Adios, Buddy 150! (?)

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:52 pm

Ron Arnold (aka rippinyarn) posted on his Scooter Examiner site that Genuine is discontinuing the Buddy 150 for 2011. So there. No need to worry about whether to go 150 or 170i.

There will be 150s around for a while, I imagine, until stocks run out.

This seems a pretty smart decision.

http://www.examiner.com/scooter-in-detr ... 011-sunday

GrittyTacoman · Post by **GrittyTacoman** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:02 pm

I know there's been a lot of discussion on MB about 125's vs. 150's, but just wondering what the benefit would be of having your offerings be 125 and 170i vs. 150 and 170i. I guess for that matter, why not keep it even simpler, phase out the 125's too and just have the Buddy be 50 or 170i?

Why keep the 125 in the non FI, 125cc niche?

(Even though I'm a 150 owner, I'm not married to that displacement, so this is more just musings, not being upset about no more 150's.)

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:36 pm

I can see phasing out the 150, but the 125 is considerably less in price than the 170, and will catch the market in that price range where the choices are the less exciting (but equally reliable) vino, kymco etc.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:37 pm

I think the intent is to tailor the lineup so that the differences in price between variations make sense with the differences in features and performance. Manufacturers want to offer a range that appeals to buyers with different needs or budgets. At the same time, it's costly to offer too many models. It could be that the 150 and 170 would be close enough in price and performance that offering both would simply confuse buyers. As is, many have grappled with the 125 vs. 150. The differences between the two in terms of performance aren't clear. The 170i has more significant (and easier to sell) benefits and will stand as a much better-defined higher performance model.

Removing the 125 will eliminate a good but less expensive option, giving a middle-range choice for those who don't need the performance gains or have the budget for a 170.

Will the 125 eventually become FI? Probably.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:38 pm

Um… the story seems to say the BlackJack will be going away as well!

I'll try to get verification on that one. 2012 170 BlackJack maybe?

BuddyLicious · Post by **BuddyLicious** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:50 pm

I like Ron Arnolds(Examiner) statement about Genuine Scooter Company President Phil McCaleb:

"Philip McCaleb is an industry icon, and there is often a three-deep line waiting for a chance to chat"

Just think Genuine scooter owners,you own a piece of equipment from an Industry Icon!

For real though taking the Buddy 150 off the list makes absolute sense.

cheez37 · Post by **cheez37** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:04 pm

ericalm wrote:I think the intent is to tailor the lineup so that the differences in price between variations make sense with the differences in features and performance. Manufacturers want to offer a range that appeals to buyers with different needs or budgets. At the same time, it's costly to offer too many models. It could be that the 150 and 170 would be close enough in price and performance that offering both would simply confuse buyers. As is, many have grappled with the 125 vs. 150. The differences between the two in terms of performance aren't clear. ....

That's the exact reason why we bought the new 125 instead of a 150. (We got her Pamplona used a couple of months later.) My wife loved the St. Tropez, but the additional $600 for a little more performance and a cool paint job weren't worth it to us. If the 170's were out, we would have bought one of those for sure.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:40 pm

Wow, so it would seem I am now riding a collector's item! Niiiice.

So let's see, now we have vintage Buddy's ('06), collector's Buddy's (150, BJ, Rattler), and the elusive (invisible) Stella 4T.

Stormswift · Post by **Stormswift** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:05 am

since my new Itallia cost at the time less then new 125 this was not even a decision. As much as I love Buddies if I go to something faster it will not be a 170cc bike. I am thinking more in terms of 250- 400 cc. I too do not see a point of "Upgrading" from 150 cc to 170 cc. I am sorry to see International series disappear though. They are such elegant little scooters. I am sorry but I just am not into those new color schemes. Well may be for the guys they look better then Internationals but for the ladies there is just that elegance about those old colors. I've never met anyone who did not like my scooter. Even non-riders always complement how attractive it is.

GrittyTacoman · Post by **GrittyTacoman** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:40 am

Yeah, I guess it makes sense to keep the one in the middle for price point, between the 50, 125 and 170i. If 125 is listed at $2800, and 150 was $3200, maybe the 170i will be around $3700? (Leaving room for the cruiser at $4500!

)

Stormswift · Post by **Stormswift** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:20 am

GrittyTacoman wrote:Yeah, I guess it makes sense to keep the one in the middle for price point, between the 50, 125 and 170i. If 125 is listed at $2800, and 150 was $3200, maybe the 170i will be arou, and $3700? (Leaving room for the cruiser at $4500! )

My '09 Itallia was something like 2600 brand new, with warranty, Internet purchase from out of state dealership. The shipping was really inexpensive compared to what is usually charged .

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:51 am

Stormswift wrote:since my new Itallia cost at the time less then new 125 this was not even a decision. As much as I love Buddies if I go to something faster it will not be a 170cc bike. I am thinking more in terms of 250- 400 cc. I too do not see a point of "Upgrading" from 150 cc to 170 cc. ....

agree. that is why I have a GTS. Probably if something happened with my Buddy I would scrape together dough for a used one. That said I think the 170 will be a hit for those new to the market or upgrading their slower scoots. That cruiser is VERY needed for loyal genuine customers wanting to get another scoot in the 250+ range.

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:14 am

Wow! My Rattler is now a "collector Buddy"!

--Keys

Wheelz · Post by **Wheelz** » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:21 am

c'mon now keys, can you really call that a rattler anymore? A "Rat" sure but a Rattler?

Rippinyarn · Post by **Rippinyarn** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:02 am

Thanks for the link Eric, and yeah, chatting with Philip and Trey and the rest of the guys from Genuine is pretty damn cool. It's a total fandom thing too, as many of the industry "tough guys" get pretty much all aflutter around Philip. He's a neat guy and has been around long enough and dome many things for this industry. He also said that he would come out to Detroit this summer and bring a 170 for a long-promised ride... we'll see about that

I extrapolated that Buddy/BlackJack 150 information from the "new product line-up" sheet that they were handing out. We knew about the Rattler already. There is no mention of the BlackJack in the line-up sheet, but that's OK (as much as I like it). I have a feeling that just like the auto industry, Genuine, (with their rebranded scoots), will be going for "specials" like the BlackJack and "tweaks" like adding FI to the 125, instead of a whole new model. I like the way that Genuine always seems to have something in the pipeline, a new model or changes to keep an existing model fresh.

The discussion of 150 vs. 168ccs (the Buddy 170i) really comes down to an engineering modification to gain a bit more displacement. The FI is really a bigger deal, and the combination of both in the very light and compact Buddy chassis is going to be pretty special, I bet.

Nary a peep on the "cruiser", although I didn't ask a specific question on it yet. Stellas are very close indeed...

bpatrick5 · Post by **bpatrick5** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:48 am

I'd love to see the Cruiser. Maybe it'll look like this rare beauty from Ducati in 1950. The first 4 stroke scooter made. It just couldn't compete with Vespa and Lambretta at the time and was discontinued in 1952 after a thousand were produced.

scooterworldguam · Post by **scooterworldguam** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:15 am

I may be wrong, but the last I heard it is actually a 161cc but marketed as a 170cc. If this is the case I seriously doubt there will be a major performance difference between this new bike and the 150cc.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:28 am

scooterworldguam wrote:I may be wrong, but the last I heard it is actually a 161cc but marketed as a 170cc. If this is the case I seriously doubt there will be a major performance difference between this new bike and the 150cc.

FI can make a substantial difference. The 150ie Vespas reportedly outperform the carbureted versions.

Rippinyarn · Post by **Rippinyarn** » Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:32 am

scooterworldguam wrote:I may be wrong, but the last I heard it is actually a 161cc but marketed as a 170cc. If this is the case I seriously doubt there will be a major performance difference between this new bike and the 150cc.

I had that in my head too, but the sheet definitely says 168cc. It's still a very small difference, but I bet that there is a tiny bit of improvement from the displacement (ain't no substitute for cubic centimeters!), and a smoothness and efficiency from the better fuel metering. We'll see really soon.