Who's Crashed? [Crash Reports]

[JHScoot]

God, I've read this entire thread, and I'm pretty freaked out about riding now. Yikes. Maybe it's good to have the fear of god before getting on the road.

oh no Plisar, don't be freaked out. the fear of god is not necessary for riding a scoot

here is something a bit more comforting, and although i technically posted in this thread, i and others still haven't crashed (i didn't go down, just almost). of course i have just 2500 miles of riding under my belt. but others have many more miles without a go down

clicky

viewtopic.php?t=15991&highlight=hasnt+crashed

happy, fearless scootering to you

[ericalm]

God, I've read this entire thread, and I'm pretty freaked out about riding now. Yikes. Maybe it's good to have the fear of god before getting on the road.

If you haven't taken the MSF course, that helps with confidence building. Experience helps a lot too until it becomes overconfidence (which happens to many of us). There's nothing wrong with having patience and building your skills on small side roads before succumbing to temptation and dashing out into traffic.

The point of this thread isn't to scare people as much as inform about conditions, help improve their riding and to drive home how real the risks are. I hate to say it, but it's in the best interest of a segment of the industry to portray scootering as much safer than motorcycling and reinforce this romantic notion we all have (at first) of jumping on with no/little gear and riding away carefree and happy. If that's what people want to do, great, but it shouldn't be a decision based on misconceptions.

[MYSCTR]

Not sure if I want to say this out loud - yet I am right at 1,100 miles and counting without going down on my St Tropaz and a few hundred before that on a 2007 Italia. This is not to say I do some stupid stuff now and then.

The wifey has close to 10,000 miles between three Italia (2007/2008/2009) scooters and well yes, she dropped her 2008 scoot in the driveway using the kick stand and then kind of a mis-communication in a turn lane took herself down at 2-3 mph. nothing big. Taken MSF course.

Our daughter has had a close call or two - yet never gone down at all on her 2009 Red V3GAN Buddy with about 2,100 total miles under her belt. Taken MSF course.

Our son on the other hand has ridden 4 different Ninja motorcycles and just two weeks ago had a car cutting across lanes take him and his bike out on 620 in Austin and woke up in the hospital. He survived with no broken bones, just pretty bruised and some soft tissue damage, a few scrapes. He rides with gear and is sure that played a big part in his survival. The bike however didn’t do so good as the forks face the wrong way, there really isn’t any steering, fluids leaking all over the place a few parts sheared right off. Looks pretty bad – I am sure this thing is totaled and yet he wants to make a track bike out of it someday it currently resides in our garage. Taken MSF course.

Don’t fear; have respect – and stay alert!

[ericalm]

Wasn't anticipating posting another report in here so soon after the last!

1. Which model and displacement (CCs) scooter was crashed? Color?
Stella 4T 150cc. Creme.

2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
Not this time. Around 5:30pm

3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?
No. N/A. Details below.

4. Was the rider injured? What type of protective gear or clothing was the rider wearing?
Yup. Pretty much bruised and banged up from the neck down but no breaks or internal injuries. The worst are bruised ribs and a banged up knee that's sporting a nice softball-sized hematoma on the side.

Wearing modular helmet, gloves, Corazzo Tempeste jacket, light boots.

5. What was the damage to the scooter?
Front fender crumpled. Legshield crumpled and bent. Horncast and mirrors are toast. Glovebox bent and damaged. Damage to front wheel, suspension and probably front fork. Chrome kit trashed. Etc. I have many pics but am reserving them and other info until I have a check in my hand. Scooter's likely totaled, though.

6. Cost of repairs, if any?
New Stella plus $700 chrome kit and some Michelin S83s.

7. How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
Almost 6 years. Licensed.

8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
Yes.

9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
Yes.

10. How fast was the rider going?
Approx. 30mph.

11. How far was the rider from home?
About 4 miles.

Taking a nice cruise through Griffith Park, my shortcut home from downtown LA. A Mercedes minivan was parked to my right on the curb pulled out to do a U-turn from their spot. So, basically they pulled right in front of me. I barely had time to brake (and there was nowhere to swerve to) before impact. I hit near the driver's door, but then Merc wound up against the opposite curb, perpendicular to the road, and the Stella was down near its left tire.

On impact, I was lucky not to get thrown from the scoot. Unluckily, I went straight into the headset and back of legshield. The bruises are like a map of the scooter: arch across the top of my chest, across my right forearm from hitting mirror, left knee probably hit glovebox. Both arms and legs pretty banged up. Sore all over today and the chest injury is pretty damn painful.

I did get checked out by paramedics at the scene. My wife came and took me to the ER. Waited 3 hours to get examined and x-rayed. Need to find a new ER.

[Plisar]

YIKES! I'm sorry to hear about your poor Stella but I'm glad to hear that you're ok. I hope you're feeling better in no time!

[KABarash]

Say it ain't so, Eric.....say it ain't so.........

Good to hear you came out of it without too much damage to yourself.
I've always worried about people pulling 'U' turns just like that, ever since I was a 'kid' growing up on Long Island and that seemed to be the 'norm' Many times did I have that done to me while riding bicycle.....

Heal Fast!

[PeteH]

Aw, dude! I hope you heal up quick.

And a distant Secondly - that Stella was a collector's item! GRRRR!

[ericalm]

And a distant Secondly - that Stella was a collector's item! GRRRR!

I know! How can I put a value on that?!

[polianarchy]

UGHHH Eric! The Other Driver errors are so bad & scary. Feel better ASAP!!!

[misu]

Wasn't anticipating posting another report in here so soon after the last!

1. Which model and displacement (CCs) scooter was crashed? Color?
Stella 4T 150cc. Creme.

2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
Not this time. Around 5:30pm

3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?
No. N/A. Details below.

4. Was the rider injured? What type of protective gear or clothing was the rider wearing?
Yup. Pretty much bruised and banged up from the neck down but no breaks or internal injuries. The worst are bruised ribs and a banged up knee that's sporting a nice softball-sized hematoma on the side.

Wearing modular helmet, gloves, Corazzo Tempeste jacket, light boots.

5. What was the damage to the scooter?
Front fender crumpled. Legshield crumpled and bent. Horncast and mirrors are toast. Glovebox bent and damaged. Damage to front wheel, suspension and probably front fork. Chrome kit trashed. Etc. I have many pics but am reserving them and other info until I have a check in my hand. Scooter's likely totaled, though.

6. Cost of repairs, if any?
New Stella plus $700 chrome kit and some Michelin S83s.

7. How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
Almost 6 years. Licensed.

8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
Yes.

9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
Yes.

10. How fast was the rider going?
Approx. 30mph.

11. How far was the rider from home?
About 4 miles.

Taking a nice cruise through Griffith Park, my shortcut home from downtown LA. A Mercedes minivan was parked to my right on the curb pulled out to do a U-turn from their spot. So, basically they pulled right in front of me. I barely had time to brake (and there was nowhere to swerve to) before impact. I hit near the driver's door, but then Merc wound up against the opposite curb, perpendicular to the road, and the Stella was down near its left tire.

On impact, I was lucky not to get thrown from the scoot. Unluckily, I went straight into the headset and back of legshield. The bruises are like a map of the scooter: arch across the top of my chest, across my right forearm from hitting mirror, left knee probably hit glovebox. Both arms and legs pretty banged up. Sore all over today and the chest injury is pretty damn painful.

I did get checked out by paramedics at the scene. My wife came and took me to the ER. Waited 3 hours to get examined and x-rayed. Need to find a new ER.

sorry to hear it eric! that's terrible. i just rode through griffith the other day too...

hope his insurance will take care of the financials, but consider a lawyer.

i was a victim of a hit and run on my bicycle a couple years back and since they never caught the other guy my insurance paid to replace my bike...i was ok with that. but someone suggested a lawyer and he helped with getting additional funds from my insurance company for loss wages, etc. still have scars but the financial compensation helped a bit.

[ericalm]

UGHHH Eric! The Other Driver errors are so bad & scary. Feel better ASAP!!!

While I will be getting a scooter and will still ride, GatsbyGirl (wife to those who don't know) says we need to have a "talk" about setting some limitations or some such. Thing is, no limitation could have prevented or avoided this. About the only thing that may have helped would have been armored pants and chest armor. Even those have shortcomings when it comes to impact protection in this kind of crash. So… I dunno.

On the other hand, when people ask why we need to gear up to ride scooters or why someone on a 50cc would need gear, this is why.

[jrsjr]

Wasn't anticipating posting another report in here so soon after the last!Taking a nice cruise through Griffith Park, my shortcut home from downtown LA. A Mercedes minivan was parked to my right on the curb pulled out to do a U-turn from their spot. So, basically they pulled right in front of me. I barely had time to brake (and there was nowhere to swerve to) before impact. I hit near the driver's door, but then Merc wound up against the opposite curb, perpendicular to the road, and the Stella was down near its left tire.

On impact, I was lucky not to get thrown from the scoot. Unluckily, I went straight into the headset and back of legshield. The bruises are like a map of the scooter: arch across the top of my chest, across my right forearm from hitting mirror, left knee probably hit glovebox. Both arms and legs pretty banged up. Sore all over today and the chest injury is pretty damn painful.

Oh , Eric. Honestly, I'm glad you're well enough to be able to report this crash so soon after the fact. That could have been a bad one. Whew! I'm sure you hurt like hell right now, but I'm really glad you weren't hurt worse. I hear your wife, too. I'm one of those horribly superstitious people who believe that things happen in threes. It might be the wise thing to take a little vacation from riding. No one here (or anywhere else) would think less of you for it and you'll enjoy it all the more when you go back to riding. Hall pass!

[JHScoot]

And a distant Secondly - that Stella was a collector's item! GRRRR!

I know! How can I put a value on that?!

sry to hear about your collision. hope you heal up nice, and fast. i could say it could have been worse, and it could have. could have been better, too

about that Stella, however. yeah, sort of ironic (at least i think its irony) you should have the ONLY legal one in California for all intent and purposes....and not a few weeks after ALL the 4T's come in, the here's to now ONLY one is taken down and out for good

damn, life is some funny shit, ain't it?

anyway, glad the rider is pretty much fine, and gonna be A-OK

[ericalm]

I ride everywhere, all the time unless it's pouring down rain. That alone increases my risks through probability. I have a car that I love; I just enjoy riding more! I think I'll be off-scooter for a couple weeks at least. Helps that I have 2 in the shop! (Damn Vespa top end is kaput. Greasy's going to look into that one.) And when I get back on, I should probably take the car more—at the very least to justify owning it!

[Lendlees]

Sorry about the crash, Eric. Saw the photo on Twitter. Ugh...poor bashed up Stella.

Not sure any ER would be quicker when there's no large amounts of blood involved. Just the nature of the queuing theory.

[JHScoot]

and ic Stella IS a moped after all!

[Plisar]

Terrible. People need to use their mirrors. I pull that maneuver all the time when I drive my cage, but I check my mirrors and blind spots multiple times. The Stella is a big bike. It's hard to miss.

I drove 30 miles today and had three different people pull out in front of me in dumb ways. Between constantly studying/practicing Proficient Motorycling and reading Eric's post, I was hypervigilant today, but it's scary to know people just don't look.

[bgwss]

Rest up and take care!

[peabody99]

omg. awful! Thanks goodness you were ok and were not going any faster. I freaking HATE it when people do the old u turn out of a curb parking space. For some reason while people are much more likely to just pull strait out of a space into traffic (we can still hit them), it is the u turn ones that never look. I think they are too busy looking at the opposite lane.

Are you officially the most frequent poster in "whose crashed?". Let make this the last one b/c you will have smooth sailing from here on out, OK?

edit add: Be honest. Did your wife think you were joking when you called her?

[Stormswift]

And a distant Secondly - that Stella was a collector's item! GRRRR!

I know! How can I put a value on that?!

Definitely more valuable the Mercedes

[Syd]

Dayam, Eric! Two drops in a month? If you ask me, you just aren't meant to have a Stella. So I tell you what. I'll help a fellow MB member out. When you get the replacement Stella, I'll trade you the $ I got for my HD - even Steven. Sound good?

Oh, and what is it about Mercedes drivers recently?

[JHScoot]

i can't believe the ADMIN of this fine website is now....scooterless

wrecked Stella, engine blown Vespa, and who knows whats up with the soon to be for sale Buddy

guys, we may have to have a coup 'round here if this keeps up

[Plisar]

I currently admin a forum...I could do another

[JHScoot]

^ and ic you do indeed have a scooter, which is now running like a top with shiny, new jets, amirite?

hmm....you would seem to qualify given your list of....qualifications!

[ericalm]

edit add: Be honest. Did your wife think you were joking when you called her?

She later told me that anytime I call and sound supercasual on the phone she knows something's wrong. "Hi, where are you? Can you come get me in Griffith Park? Ohhhh… Uhhh… Well…" I'm all-too transparent.

[Lostmycage]

Glad to hear you're relatively all right. That could have been a lot worse. Wishing you a speedy recovery, physically and financially... and Greasily (your LX top end rebuild).

[Skootz Kabootz]

Heal up quickly my friend. Rides are a lot more fun for everyone when you're there.

[KRUSTYburger]

BUMMERRRR!!! Hope you feel better soon! Put some frozen peas on that softball.

[Silver Streak]

Wow, Eric... just found out. Heal quickly and get back in the saddle.

Hope they checked out that hematoma well. I got one in a very minor incident in my own driveway last fall that triggered a major blood clot in my leg. Of course, you are a lot younger and more resilient than I.

[sunshinen]

edit add: Be honest. Did your wife think you were joking when you called her?

She later told me that anytime I call and sound supercasual on the phone she knows something's wrong. "Hi, where are you? Can you come get me in Griffith Park? Ohhhh… Uhhh… Well…" I'm all-too transparent.

Never scooter wrecked (wood knock), but in such conversations, I tend to start things with...

"Hi. I'm fine..."

It's a dead give away.

Heal fast!

[easy]

get well soon hope you got some good pain meds

[Cheshire]

Heal quickly, Eric!

My tell-tale, apparently, is "Well...that didn't work" or "hey...no reason, what are you doing right now?"

[jprestonian]

Not going to read the 20-some-odd pages of comments, but... I vote we re-title this thread, "Have you ever gone down on your Buddy?"
.

[KRUSTYburger]

OH SNAP!

[Skootz Kabootz]

Not going to read the 20-some-odd pages of comments, but... I vote we re-title this thread, "Have you ever gone down on your Buddy?"
.

Another blatant attempt to get in to the double entendre thread

[charlie55]

Eric:

Missed the "identifying hostile vehicles" chapter in our MSF workbook, didn't we?



Heal fast + get back on the horse.

[ericalm]

Eric:

Missed the "identifying hostile vehicles" chapter in our MSF workbook, didn't we?



Heal fast + get back on the horse.

[TVB]

You missed one:

[peabody99]

I think BMW's are the WORST. Maybe they are just really common around here and it seems worse than it is, but i don't think so.

[BootScootin'FireFighter]

wow, sorry to hear of your streak of bad luck lately Eric. Hopefully the healing goes smoothly and you get a scooter back in the fleet. What a SOB, I hate U-turners... probably last thing you're expecting riding around near a park. I always expect that from taxi cabs, especially when the brake lights come on and the wheels are turned to the left. Be safe brother!

(I'm a few days behind catching up on posts and completely out of touch lately on facebook)

[maribell]

Eric, that sucks. Looks like we're peas in a pod on this one

1. Which model and displacement (CCs) scooter was crashed? Color?
Stella 2T 150cc. Red.

2. Was the crash due to rider error? What time of day did it occur?
Half 'n half. Around 3:15pm Minivan in front stopped short on me. Hit the brakes but it was too late.

3. Could the crash have been avoided? What will you do differently next time?
Maybe. I still could have wiped out if I'd tried to swerve.

4. Was the rider injured? What type of protective gear or clothing was the rider wearing?
Yes. Broken collar bone. Cut on left leg requiring stitches. Many bruises on legs and feet. No road rash.

Wearing a 3/4 with the shield down.

5. What was the damage to the scooter?
Front fender crumpled. Legshield crumpled and bent. Horncast and mirrors are toast. Glovebox bent and damaged. Damage to front wheel, suspension and probably front fork. Chrome kit trashed.

I kept Eric's description. Its pretty much the same. Typing is limited.

6. Cost of repairs, if any?
2008 Stella. Sito +.

7. How much (weeks, months, years) riding experience does the rider have? Does the rider have a motorcycle permit, license or neither?
Over 3 years. Licensed.

8. Had the rider completed the MSF course?
No.

9. Was the rider the scooter's owner?
Yes.

10. How fast was the rider going?
Approx. 30mph.

11. How far was the rider from home?
About 7 miles.

[peabody99]

oh no maribell, heal soon. Van Drivers!

[jrsjr]

4. Was the rider injured? What type of protective gear or clothing was the rider wearing?
Yes. Broken collar bone. Cut on left leg requiring stitches. Many bruises on legs and feet.

Ouch, Maribel! Sorry to hear. I hope they're giving you adequate pain meds. Hope you heal quickly and are back in the saddle soon.

[Plisar]

Luckily, no crash here, but I have a similar experience to maribell and Eric to report.

I was driving on Voigt Drive near Campus Point on UCSD's campus on my home stretch heading home. There is a woman who is clearly trying to turn left right into the left hand turn lane for Campus Point. I see her, I know she's going to do something stupid, and I slow down accordingly. There are no cars in front of me and as I approach her, she finally decides to pull out. I was going 15 at the time (speed limit is 35 in the area), and it likely saved me from a lot of pain.

I stopped about 10 feet away from her door. She flips me off (like it's my fault) and starts screaming something not in English at me through her window while traffic starts to build up behind me. She finally backs up and I scooted off.

Thank you again to everyone who told me to read Proficient Motorcycling before getting the scoot. This time, it definitely saved me (hazards section, and the breaking section). I was lucky.

[Syd]

...Broken collar bone...

Heal up quickly, Maribell. Mine is coming along, but still itches like the devil along the incision.

[ericalm]

Crap, maribell sorry to hear! Collarbone hurts much worse than anything I'm enduring right now.

Does this mean we won't be seeing you in New Orleans?

Spring is always crash season. What's unusual this year is that it's not the people digging their scoots out from the snow who are getting downed by cars. More riders on the road = more crashes. Sad for all of us.

THEY"RE AIMING FOR STELLAS.

[JHScoot]

Luckily, no crash here, but I have a similar experience to maribell and Eric to report.

I was driving on Voigt Drive near Campus Point on UCSD's campus on my home stretch heading home. There is a woman who is clearly trying to turn left right into the left hand turn lane for Campus Point. I see her, I know she's going to do something stupid, and I slow down accordingly. There are no cars in front of me and as I approach her, she finally decides to pull out. I was going 15 at the time (speed limit is 35 in the area), and it likely saved me from a lot of pain.

wow crashes coming left and right itt. everyone heal up well and look forward to scooting again

regarding the quoted post, i come upon these situations all the time. we all do who have an urban commute. sometimes when moving forward you can only scan your surroundings, assess the situation, look for a possible out, and start to see yourself in a number of possible scenarios

i have not taken MSF yet (read the book, though) or read PM, but i have always been an excellent driver. so i feel confident on the road and around cars. i have also been the kind of driver of the mindset "close is not close enough." which for me means in my car i could be inches from another vehicle on the road and think nothing of it. near misses, passing, or even "riding the wall" in the fast lane on the freeway. that has helped me as a rider, too. because man, when we are out there we are OUT THERE. close to everything on the road. yes, inches away from that bus. why, i think i'll reach out and touch it . but i always remain calm

when i was in high school i had a militant drivers ed teacher. more homework given then all other classes combined on any given day, and he made us write pages of meaningless drivel. just to make sure we were doing something, i guess

anyway this he pounded into our heads about potential "collisions." i put it in quotations because in this man's world he would tell you, "no such things as accidents, students. just collisions which could have been avoided"

so yeah, the below was his (and our) mantra

Identify (identify the situation)
Predict (predict what might happen)
Decide (decide what course of action to take based on possible scenarios relating to your prediction)
Execute (execute said course of action)

ah yes, the "IPDE Method"

i was scarred for life by the brainwashing, but it worked, i think. its suppose to work in an instant, in a flash. its really the culmination of a bunch of little thoughts making one big one. when i come to an intersection now, its now different then i did when i was in a car. i see everything and the IPDE takes over

other then that, i try to remember in a tough or tight situation, i am small. that means maybe i can find a small space of my own and be safe in any given situation. hopefully.....

[Syd]

^^That sounds very much like the MSF's SEE® Strategy

Search Evaluate Execute. It's all about knowing where you are, what's around you and what you're going to do about it.

[JHScoot]

^ yeah, i was gonna mention SEE but forgot. its all textbook stuff, literally

even the IPDE Method came straight from a textbook. this was 30 years ago btw, so the teacher did something right. it was how we were taught it, i am sure. as much as us being willing..i just remember a crew cut and military like garb, and the dudes breath smelled like sweetened apples

he took his class very seriously, and i suppose rightly so knowing what i know know about being behind the wheel or sitting atop a bike out on the road. but...if we knew nothing more....

IPDEIPDEIPDEIPDE!!!!!!!

oh, and no such thing as "accidents." which i will never figure out is true or false. ever

[maribell]

Pain meds are good, but since I can't take too much time away from work, my typing stamina is diminished by the time I get personal computer time.

Eric, this definitely means I am out for NOLA. Too much $$ between getting a new scoot, med bills (deductible..eeep!), and wedding planning.

Hopefully Urban Moto can get in a Mustard 4T by the I am all healed up.

^^Wow, that first sentence definitely reeks of pain meds. Ha!