Torque wrench

issue31 · Post by **issue31** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:11 pm

For general work on a Buddy 125, which torque wrench in a 3/8, inch lbs or foot lbs. Not sure sbout this metric conversion stuff.

Thanks issue31

eDan · Post by **eDan** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:41 pm

I'd go for lbs ft over lbs in. I think this is the wrench I bought Craftsman Torque Wrench Model# 44690

And for your torque conversion pleasure: http://onlineconversion.com/torque.htm

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:04 pm

I think all the specs I have are in foot pounds—or most are.

The Convert app on my iPhone is one of the most useful!

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:31 pm

you can buy a torque wrench at harbor freight pretty cheap that shows the metric torque values as well as the ftlb

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:42 pm

jasondavis48108 wrote:you can buy a torque wrench at harbor freight pretty cheap that shows the metric torque values as well as the ftlb

My Harbor Freight torque wrench is pretty inaccurate… Kind of a POS. I know they have different brands there, though I don't recall which mine is. Wish I'd spent more on one before over-torquing and breaking some bolts!

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:55 pm

ericalm wrote:
jasondavis48108 wrote:you can buy a torque wrench at harbor freight pretty cheap that shows the metric torque values as well as the ftlb
My Harbor Freight torque wrench is pretty inaccurate… Kind of a POS. I know they have different brands there, though I don't recall which mine is. Wish I'd spent more on one before over-torquing and breaking some bolts!

I have no idea how accurate mine is, haven't broken any bolts yet though.

What I really want is an impact wrench that has the build in ability to preset various torque values so putting the variator back on isn't such a pain in the arse. I'd like to play with the weights more but I hate trying to get the torque right on the stupid variator. It takes 10 minutes to get everything off since using the impact wrench doesn't pose any issue but since I have no way to set the torque on my impact wrench I dare not use to to put the variator back on

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:03 pm

Really? I don't have an impact, but haven't had issues with that. I have a harder time getting the variator and clutch nuts loose!

Quo Vadimus · Post by **Quo Vadimus** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:05 pm

jasondavis48108 wrote: I have no idea how accurate mine is, haven't broken any bolts yet though.

What I really want is an impact wrench that has the build in ability to preset various torque values so putting the variator back on isn't such a pain in the arse. I'd like to play with the weights more but I hate trying to get the torque right on the stupid variator. It takes 10 minutes to get everything off since using the impact wrench doesn't pose any issue but since I have no way to set the torque on my impact wrench I dare not use to to put the variator back on

It doesn't help that they excluded putting the threaded (I assume they're threaded) holes on the fan on the 50, so towel method or impact-and-pray methods are our only options.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:51 pm

Quo Vadimus wrote:
jasondavis48108 wrote: I have no idea how accurate mine is, haven't broken any bolts yet though.

What I really want is an impact wrench that has the build in ability to preset various torque values so putting the variator back on isn't such a pain in the arse. I'd like to play with the weights more but I hate trying to get the torque right on the stupid variator. It takes 10 minutes to get everything off since using the impact wrench doesn't pose any issue but since I have no way to set the torque on my impact wrench I dare not use to to put the variator back on
It doesn't help that they excluded putting the threaded (I assume they're threaded) holes on the fan on the 50, so towel method or impact-and-pray methods are our only options.

My current method is wedging a flathead screw driver between one of the fins and the ground and then stabilizing the screwdriver with my foot while I use the torque wrench to tighten the bolt. What a pain in the arse that is! I've tried holding the fan with an oil strap wrench but that doesn't work at all as there just isn't enough width for the strap to grab on to. Do they make some sort of special tool for this or do shop mechanics just have some crazy skills that I don't?

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:58 pm

good thread, i am going to get one soon. a few different kinds are available, though. i am so confused.

just want something for the CVT cover and to check the valves

i have 3/8 sockets so i guess i want a 3/8 torque wrench but idk

big handle, small handle, long handle, short handle?

oh, the humanity....

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:12 am

A short handle might be better to get to tricky spots like the oil drain bolt and the oil filter on the 150's

issue31 · Post by **issue31** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:57 am

Spent some time looking around Sears. They have a digital one with both foot lbs and meteric. still thinking what it will be

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:21 am

ericalm wrote:
jasondavis48108 wrote:you can buy a torque wrench at harbor freight pretty cheap that shows the metric torque values as well as the ftlb
My Harbor Freight torque wrench is pretty inaccurate… Kind of a POS. I know they have different brands there, though I don't recall which mine is. Wish I'd spent more on one before over-torquing and breaking some bolts!

Amen. Stripped my gear oil drain bolt. Required a Timesert to repair. Harbor Freight is good for some things. Not so much for others.

eDan · Post by **eDan** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:22 am

jasondavis48108 wrote:What I really want is an impact wrench that has the build in ability to preset various torque values so putting the variator back on isn't such a pain in the arse. I'd like to play with the weights more but I hate trying to get the torque right on the stupid variator. It takes 10 minutes to get everything off since using the impact wrench doesn't pose any issue but since I have no way to set the torque on my impact wrench I dare not use to to put the variator back on

Rather than an impact wrench, consider a strap wrench to hold the variator or clutch in place while loosening or tightening the nut. I've been using this strap wrench. It works great, only $15 and easy to use - provided it's correctly oriented for loosening, then flipped for tightening. Then torque it down with the torque wrench.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:28 am

eDan wrote:
jasondavis48108 wrote:What I really want is an impact wrench that has the build in ability to preset various torque values so putting the variator back on isn't such a pain in the arse. I'd like to play with the weights more but I hate trying to get the torque right on the stupid variator. It takes 10 minutes to get everything off since using the impact wrench doesn't pose any issue but since I have no way to set the torque on my impact wrench I dare not use to to put the variator back on
Rather than an impact wrench, consider a strap wrench to hold the variator or clutch in place while loosening or tightening the nut. I've been using this strap wrench. It works great, only $15 and easy to use - provided it's correctly oriented for loosening, then flipped for tightening. Then torque it down with the torque wrench.

I've tried to use a strap wrench but I can't get it positioned right on the fan since the fan is so thin. The strap just falls off. I'm thinking I'll have to take a look at it again and see if I can't come up with some sort of DIY tool for hold the damn thing still while I torque it down as I can't find an impact wrench that allows you to dial in the torque value.

eDan · Post by **eDan** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:30 am

jasondavis48108 wrote:
eDan wrote:
jasondavis48108 wrote:What I really want is an impact wrench that has the build in ability to preset various torque values so putting the variator back on isn't such a pain in the arse. I'd like to play with the weights more but I hate trying to get the torque right on the stupid variator. It takes 10 minutes to get everything off since using the impact wrench doesn't pose any issue but since I have no way to set the torque on my impact wrench I dare not use to to put the variator back on
Rather than an impact wrench, consider a strap wrench to hold the variator or clutch in place while loosening or tightening the nut. I've been using this strap wrench. It works great, only $15 and easy to use - provided it's correctly oriented for loosening, then flipped for tightening. Then torque it down with the torque wrench.
I've tried to use a strap wrench but I can't get it positioned right on the fan since the fan is so thin. The strap just falls off. I'm thinking I'll have to take a look at it again and see if I can't come up with some sort of DIY tool for hold the damn thing still while I torque it down as I can't find an impact wrench that allows you to dial in the torque value.

I agree, it can be a bit unstable on the thin variator edge. Instead of centering the strap about its edge, I've biased the strap a bit toward the outside (cooling fins side) on the variator so that under tension the strap asymmetrically collapses both over the fins and the thin edge, thus stabilizing out enough to torque it down. It's also important to keep the wrench body from tipping out of plane since the belt is no longer centered. And remove all the slack out of the strap before torquing.

Quo Vadimus · Post by **Quo Vadimus** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:37 am

jasondavis48108 wrote: My current method is wedging a flathead screw driver between one of the fins and the ground and then stabilizing the screwdriver with my foot while I use the torque wrench to tighten the bolt. What a pain in the arse that is! I've tried holding the fan with an oil strap wrench but that doesn't work at all as there just isn't enough width for the strap to grab on to. Do they make some sort of special tool for this or do shop mechanics just have some crazy skills that I don't?

If you've already succeeded, you're probably doing something different than me and it's pointless to tell you to be careful because I broke one of the fins off that way. I guess great minds think alike but don't necessarily execute to the same standards.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:29 am

DIY variator holder tool:
http://totalruckus.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=581

Or the $33 Buzzetti tool:

(I just found the above one but may need it for my toolbox!)

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:51 am

ericalm wrote:DIY variator holder tool:
http://totalruckus.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=581

Or the $33 Buzzetti tool:

(I just found the above one but may need it for my toolbox!)

those look like they would work great if the variator front plant had holes in it. Unfortunately the Buddy 50's doesn't. Wonder if I could just drill the appropriate holes?

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:41 pm

jasondavis48108 wrote:
ericalm wrote:DIY variator holder tool:
http://totalruckus.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=581

Or the $33 Buzzetti tool:

(I just found the above one but may need it for my toolbox!)
those look like they would work great if the variator front plant had holes in it. Unfortunately the Buddy 50's doesn't. Wonder if I could just drill the appropriate holes?

The trick would be keeping it in balance, and not causing burrs on the drive face. If you could pull that off, sure you can drill it.

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:42 pm

Quo Vadimus wrote:It doesn't help that they excluded putting the threaded (I assume they're threaded) holes on the fan on the 50, so towel method or impact-and-pray methods are our only options.

The Helix also lacks these "holes". Rather than taking the chance of snapping a vane off the fan, I built my own tool for about 5 bucks. Here's a link to a thread in which I describe the build. Of course, you'd need to modify the plan/layout/measurements for your scoot:

- This design isn't portable, per-se: it's strictly a garage inhabitant.
- The measurements were made with the assumption that it would only be used while the HH is up on its center stand.
- The scrap wood used was a pine plank 3/4" x 7.5" x 32". I guess that that'd be a 1 x 8 x 36 at the lumber yard or building supply store..

OK, here goes:

- The first step is to cut the piece that'll butt up against the variator. I found that 14 and 7/8" is just enough to contact the ground and fit under all of the stuff above the variator. You'll also need to cut the top of the board into a sort of tombstone shape in order to get it to fit flush against the variator face. Feel free to adjust as you see fit.

- With the variator cover off, measure from the ground to the center of the crankshaft extension, and duplicate that measurement, centered, on the board you just cut.

- Using the center point from the previous step, use a compass to draw a circle about 4" in diameter.

- Using a protractor, make a mark every 30 degrees on the circle you just drew. These are the points at which the 12 machine bolts will be inserted.

- I used 1/4-20 x 1 1/4 bolts and drilled the 12 holes to 7/32" so that the fit would be tight enough for the threads to "catch". I know it seems odd to be using machine bolts in wood, but it's not as if this thing is going to be used on a daily basis.

- Place an appropriate-sized metal washer on each bolt and drive it into place.

- Cut 12 pieces of rubber tubing (fuel or vacuum line or whatever) and work them onto the exposed threads of the bolts. This'll be the side that faces the variator.

- Referencing the same center point as when you drew the 4" circle, use a hole saw of 1 3/4" (or whatever you deem sufficient) to create the center opening in the board for your socket.

- While you can brace the board in whatever manner you wish, I simple butted the remainder of the original plank up against the bottom outer face of the one with the bolts, and secured it with some wood screws and washers.

Here's a few (lousy phone) pics:

- Side that faces the variator

- Side from which you curse, scream, and bark your knuckles.

- Side view showing floor plate (brace).

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:13 pm

what is this variator tool used for? to get the assembly off? i thought an impact wrench would loosen the nut off? does it simply spin the variator with the nut? is that the reason we need a special tool?

here is another technique / demonstration i found

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost ... stcount=25

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:28 pm

jasondavis48108 wrote:those look like they would work great if the variator front plant had holes in it. Unfortunately the Buddy 50's doesn't. Wonder if I could just drill the appropriate holes?

The first was just meant to show how a holder could be constructed. If you could build this, you could build something to securely hold the blades. One trick some people use: Make one from an old outer pullet half!

The Buzzetti tool looks like its got pegs intended to go between the blades.

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:59 pm

ericalm wrote:One trick some people use: Make one from an old outer pullet half!

Really! Which color pullet?

or

(Sorry, just couldn't resist)

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:28 pm

ericalm wrote:
The Buzzetti tool looks like its got pegs intended to go between the blades.

oh!

I thought the ltiitle pegs were supposed to fit into holes. I think your right, it may work just being placed between baldes. I'll have to order one and try it. Thanx

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:31 pm

Kaos wrote:
jasondavis48108 wrote:
ericalm wrote:DIY variator holder tool:
http://totalruckus.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=581

Or the $33 Buzzetti tool:

(I just found the above one but may need it for my toolbox!)
those look like they would work great if the variator front plant had holes in it. Unfortunately the Buddy 50's doesn't. Wonder if I could just drill the appropriate holes?
The trick would be keeping it in balance, and not causing burrs on the drive face. If you could pull that off, sure you can drill it.

I think you could keep it balanced by drilling out the three inner hoels that form a triangle. Any burrs that form could be polished off using a dremel (at least that makes sense in my head). Will the reduced weight from drilling the holes make any noticable difference in opperation?

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:17 pm

charlie55 wrote:
ericalm wrote:One trick some people use: Make one from an old outer pullet half!
Really! Which color pullet?

Metallic silver.

paikkylee · Post by **paikkylee** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:09 pm

I thought I read in another thread about pulling out the plug and threading a lawn mower cord into the chamber to stop the piston, making fancy home made tools unnecessary.

Anyone tried that?

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:42 pm

paikkylee wrote:I thought I read in another thread about pulling out the plug and threading a lawn mower cord into the chamber to stop the piston, making fancy home made tools unnecessary.

Anyone tried that?

This would work fine. I've used the same technique for holding valves in place to allow changing valve springs/seals without having to remove the whole head. Any type of small cord/rope will do, but I wouldn't use anything like sisal rope because it sheds too much.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:11 am

babblefish wrote:
paikkylee wrote:I thought I read in another thread about pulling out the plug and threading a lawn mower cord into the chamber to stop the piston, making fancy home made tools unnecessary.

Anyone tried that?
This would work fine. I've used the same technique for holding valves in place to allow changing valve springs/seals without having to remove the whole head. Any type of small cord/rope will do, but I wouldn't use anything like sisal rope because it sheds too much.

Can someone diagram this for me? On a napkin or MacPaint or whatever? I'm having a tough time seeing how this works.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:15 am

well I broke down today and bought some new torque wrench's after reading eric's post about his harbor freight wrenchs not being accurate and busting a bolt

I went with Craftsman even though they get mixed reviews when it comes to reliability. Hope they hold up as they only have a 1 year warranty. They were on sale though so I got them for 50 bucks each

http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/p_10155_ ... ockType=L1

http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/p_10155_ ... ockType=L3

lmyers · Post by **lmyers** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:43 am

I went old school.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:52 am

lmyers wrote:I went old school.

I've got one of those that my dad bought in the 70's, Still works good so long as the bolt isn't in some weird position that makes it difficult to read the scale.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:10 am

ericalm wrote:
babblefish wrote:
paikkylee wrote:I thought I read in another thread about pulling out the plug and threading a lawn mower cord into the chamber to stop the piston, making fancy home made tools unnecessary.

Anyone tried that?
This would work fine. I've used the same technique for holding valves in place to allow changing valve springs/seals without having to remove the whole head. Any type of small cord/rope will do, but I wouldn't use anything like sisal rope because it sheds too much.
Can someone diagram this for me? On a napkin or MacPaint or whatever? I'm having a tough time seeing how this works.

What you're doing is filling the top of the cylinder with rope through the spark plug hole. I've done this before, and it works well.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:19 am

ericalm wrote:
babblefish wrote:
paikkylee wrote:I thought I read in another thread about pulling out the plug and threading a lawn mower cord into the chamber to stop the piston, making fancy home made tools unnecessary.

Anyone tried that?
This would work fine. I've used the same technique for holding valves in place to allow changing valve springs/seals without having to remove the whole head. Any type of small cord/rope will do, but I wouldn't use anything like sisal rope because it sheds too much.
Can someone diagram this for me? On a napkin or MacPaint or whatever? I'm having a tough time seeing how this works.

Diagram not really needed.

Remove the spark plug.

Rotate crankshaft so that the piston is not at top-dead-center.

Take some cord/rope and feed it into the spark plug hole until no more can be inserted. Be sure to leave some hanging out or you'll have a heck of a time trying to pull it back out. Use cord/rope that is small enough to fit through the spark plug hole, but not so small that you have to feed-in fifty feet of it.

Rotate crankshaft until it compresses the rope and can no longer move. At this point the valves are also not able to move.

When you're done doing whatever it is you have to do that requires the crankshaft to not turn or the valves to not drop down into the cylinder, pull the cord/rope back out. Nylon rope works best because it's slippery and does not shed fibers into the cylinder.

Post by **ericalm** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:05 am

Ahh, I get it. Pretty clever. I'd have never thought of it!

paikkylee · Post by **paikkylee** » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:42 pm

And no fabrication needed. Rasquache!