Another starter issue

jmazza · Post by **jmazza** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:25 pm

My 2007 Italia 125 has been having trouble starting lately (for about the past month on and off).

I've changed the battery which seemed to work great for a while. Then sure enough the starter would become slow but still start. One day I got nothing but a click (from the right side under the seat area) when pressing the start button. Kick start wouldn't even work (at least not after 5-10 tries and usually it only takes 1-2). Messed around with some connections, and reseating the fuse beneath the battery seemed to fix it right up- started as quickly as ever. It worked perfectly after that for about 2 weeks.

Yesterday I was having trouble again with the starter (slow starts- and it seems that when I press the button it will crank for a split second, then stop, then slowly crank but not start). A subsequent press of the start button gave nothing but a click. Fortunately I was at home so I put the battery on a tender. Sure enough, the red light lit (meaning less than 80% charge) but after about 5 minutes it was blinking green. I left it on overnight and had a solid green this morning.

So I figured maybe short rides were doing the battery in and the Tender fixed it. But nope. This morning nothing but a click again. It did kick start reluctantly and after idling for a few minutes, I turned it off and tried the electric start- this time got the slow crank but no start. I was late for work so I kick started and drove in. I haven't tried again.

I've made an appointment with my mech for next Tuesday but I'm looking for ideas from everyone here.

To try to recap my rambling story, the symptoms are like this:

1. Sporadically the starter will either crank slowly and sometimes start sometimes not, or just give a single click.

2. When this happens, kick starting will usually work but requires extra effort.

3. Battery is almost brand new but seems to be draining at least some from short rides.

Any thoughts? Wiring loom of death? Stator? Battery connection (I did make sure the battery was connected nice and tight and the horn works fine with scooter off)?

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:53 pm

jmazza wrote:3. Battery is almost brand new but seems to be draining at least some from short rides.

Have you seen this thread over on Modern Vespa? http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic76625 That poor guy has had three, count 'em, three, batteries die already this year! I'm sure it's just a coincidence, but it's enough to make you wonder if there are a bunch of crap new batteries being sold. Seriously, before you go a bunch further with troubleshooting, if it's not a lot of trouble, pull that battery out, take it to a Batteries Plus or some other shop where they know what they're doing, and make darn sure your battery is really good (with none of this internally-shorted cell nonsense) before you spend a lot of time chasing non-existent problems. If I'm wrong, I owe you a beer and an apology for making a bad guess. Man, that would be tough if I had to ride all the way down to South Florida to buy somebody a beer. Sure do hope I'm wrong!

But seriously...

jmazza · Post by **jmazza** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:03 pm

Interesting- I'll check that out. I actually got the battery from Batteries Plus (it's a 10ah instead of the stock 6ah) so I can bring it back there.

The problem existed before the battery change however- it's what precipitated the battery change in the first place.

I'd love for it to be something simple like that though, beer or no beer!

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:08 pm

jmazza wrote:I'd love for it to be something simple like that though, beer or no beer!

Yeah, me, too. While you're at it, take a look at your starter relay connections. It wouldn't hurt to pull those connectors off the posts and inspect them looking for oxidized surfaces. Shiny happy electrical connections are where it's at.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:23 pm

jmazza wrote:I actually got the battery from Batteries Plus (it's a 10ah instead of the stock 6ah) so I can bring it back there.

That's great. Those folks should be all about checking that battery out and they have the meter to do it. You want to be darn sure you don't have a sketchy cell in that battery. If one cell is sketchy, the other cells will try to overcharge to compensate. When that happens, the cell can charge up to the voltage you expect, but it won't have enough juice to turn the motor over, exactly the symptom you are experiencing.

P.S. Does the Buddy put out enough juice to keep that battery charged? I don't know. Has anybody else done this successfully?

jmazza · Post by **jmazza** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:44 pm

jrsjr wrote:
jmazza wrote:I'd love for it to be something simple like that though, beer or no beer!
Yeah, me, too. While you're at it, take a look at your starter relay connections. It wouldn't hurt to pull those connectors off the posts and inspect them looking for oxidized surfaces. Shiny happy electrical connections are where it's at.

Just made a note to do that after reading the Modern Vespa thread!

As for the 10ah battery I got it after reading this thread. It seemed pretty conclusive that it would be a safe "mod." The one I got didn't require any cutting of the battery compartment- same size as original, just 10ah vs 6ah.

The guys at Batteries Plus are solid and I'm sure they'll be happy to check it out.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:06 pm

jmazza wrote:As for the 10ah battery I got it after reading this thread. It seemed pretty conclusive that it would be a safe "mod." The one I got didn't require any cutting of the battery compartment- same size as original, just 10ah vs 6ah.

You got that YTZ 10s battery, right? That's a cool upgrade if it doesn't cause problems. When you pull the battery, take a hard look at the wires that connect to the battery and make sure they are shiny & happy, too.

P.S. That Modern Vespa thread is the kind of thing that nightmares are made of. I love stuff like that. For me it's like reading a whodunnit so engrossing I can't put it down. I need to get out more, I know.

jmazza · Post by **jmazza** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:07 pm

jrsjr wrote:
jmazza wrote:As for the 10ah battery I got it after reading this thread. It seemed pretty conclusive that it would be a safe "mod." The one I got didn't require any cutting of the battery compartment- same size as original, just 10ah vs 6ah.
You got that YTZ 10s battery, right? That's a cool upgrade if it doesn't cause problems. When you pull the battery, take a hard look at the wires that connect to the battery and make sure they are shiny & happy, too.

P.S. That Modern Vespa is the kind of thing that nightmares are made of. I love stuff like that. For me it's like reading a whodunnit so engrossing I can't put it down. I need to get out more, I know.

Yup that's the one. And as for that other thread I, too, was (sadly?) more engrossed in the detailed reporting and troubleshooting than I'd like to admit!

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:30 pm

jmazza wrote:Yup that's the one. And as for that other thread I, too, was (sadly?) more engrossed in the detailed reporting and troubleshooting than I'd like to admit!

The guy who's reporting the problem in that thread is doing an amazing job of giving jimc data to work with. When he reported that extremely low voltage after only one minute of sitting with the ignition on, jimc knew they had a third dead battery on their hands. He must have wondered WTF. I still think they have a rogue gremlin they haven't yet found, but maybe it's just a batch of defective batteries. You've no doubt heard of the old Chinese curse - "May you lead an interesting life." Well, I think the guy in that MV thread is having an interesting life.

Please check back in and let us know what you find.

dazarooney · Post by **dazarooney** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:46 am

I've got a similar problem with mine so will give the advice given here a go, hopefully this will resolve it.

jmazza · Post by **jmazza** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:34 pm

A little update:

Left work yesterday and the electric start would not work (as expected). It produced a little cranking effort and then just the single click on subsequent tries.

Kickstarting was very hard. Hard to the point that I thought it wouldn't happen but it finally started.

I should add here that the scooter, once running, is running so great.

I got home and put a meter on the battery and it read 13.1v. I tried the electric start a few times and got two small cranks and then a click. Measured the voltage again and it was down to 12.6. I know that I still could have a bad cell so I plan to have the battery checked but I figure it's useful data and it seems the battery is holding a charge and charging.

I didn't have any time to do any more checking of connections so I put it on the tender again and left it overnight.

This morning, the starter produced a small crank, then clicks. I could not get it kickstarted at all. 2 out of the probably 20 tries ALMOST got going but in the end I hitched a ride to work.

I have never had much trouble kickstarting- usually 3 tries at the max. This worries me and I'm wondering if there is a problem with the engine- I've read about something like that that could be related to starting issues (but I get way out of my vocabulary here). Could it be that the starter is working just fine but simply can't crank the engine due to some kind of problem? That would be why usually the first attempt produces a small crank, but then drains the battery so low that it only clicks?

If there IS some possibility to this theory, what are the likely problems?

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:15 pm

Either you or your guy should check the charging voltage with the scoot running. Not only would a weak stator fail to charge the battery, but if for some reason your regulator has gone south and is over-volting the battery, it could cook a cell (among other Bad Things).

jmazza · Post by **jmazza** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:24 pm

PeteH wrote:Either you or your guy should check the charging voltage with the scoot running. Not only would a weak stator fail to charge the battery, but if for some reason your regulator has gone south and is over-volting the battery, it could cook a cell (among other Bad Things).

I actually meant to do that last night and, assuming I can get it started over the weekend, will check it. I was going to use this advice from another thread:

Get a cheapo ohm meter from Radio Shack. If you do, you'll find use for it the the rest of your life!

Set it to 20v, touch your pos and neg terminals, kick start the bike, watch the voltage on the ohm meter. it should stay above 12 to 13 at a decent idle. If it doesn't then your regulator isn't working.

If when you connect the ohm meter before starting the scooter reads, 12v or more, your riding IS charging the battery fine. So your problem is probably switch or starter or somewhere in between.

Does that sound like what I need to be checking or is there more to it as far as checking the charging voltage? I wouldn't think the battery would have read 13.1 last night after riding home (only 10 min ride though) if it wasn't charging but I certainly want to rule out the obvious things.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:21 pm

Have you checked the battery cable connections, like John suggested? From an old car guy's perspective, all your problems could be caused by bad (read: corroded) battery connectors.

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:26 pm

You might also want to check if you've got a current drain when the scoot's completely shut down. If you have a voltmeter with an ammeter setting, you'd just need to hook it in series with the battery (i.e., disconnect a cable, and insert the ammeter between the battery and cable, observing proper polarity). If it indicates current flow of any significance while the scoot's off, then that might be your problem.

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:17 am

Good point. After a good charge/ride, before you go in for the night, you could even try loosening one of the connectors and setting it aside so your battery can't possibly be being drained by something on the scooter, and see if it still loses a charge.

I'm sorry you are having such grief with this! I know how frustrating it can be to track things down sometimes...

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:27 am

One other thing I just thought about...have you done the BOB adaptor to activate your deadlights? Some folks have found that drains their battery (I think typically when they have chosen the wrong wire to connect to for power). I've never had issues with it myself and think it's an awesome mod, so I'm not slamming it here!

Is there anything at all/else you've modified electrically lately...?

Does anyone know if our scooters have voltage regulators, and if so, if they typically go bad? Maybe they wouldn't even cause this type of symptom...? I'm no mechanic...just trying to think of other stuff for you to check in case your battery checks out okay.

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:54 am

Reinforcing what PeteH said, I just found this thread. The below is a quote from one of the posts there. Does this sound familiar? Many of the people in that thread have 2007s.

The stator plate is basically what you'd call an alternator in a car, it's a cluster of coils that convert the mechanical energy created by the engine into electrical energy to power your lights/ignition system, etc.

In a scooter, it's usually mounted under a flywheel mounted to the crankshaft, so when the engine's turning, magnets in the flywheel create a electromagnetic charge in the coils. The ignition points are usually mounted to the stator plate and the crankshaft controls their opening/closing directly, which is a really nice simple way to do it that avoids timing belts/chains, but I'm not sure if that's how it works on a Buddy.

So, if there's a bad coil or coils in your stator, the following things could happen:

1) your battery wouldn't charge
2) some/all lights/horn/etc would not work, or be dimmer
3) your ignition wouldn't work (no electrical charge to the points/sparkplug)

Although depending on how the electrical system is set up, any one of those things could happen without the others being affected, and any of those things could happen for other reasons. So it's tricky to troubleshoot.

jmazza · Post by **jmazza** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:33 pm

Thanks for all the ideas. No BOB running lights or other electrical mods. While running, the battery shows its voltage hopping around anywhere between 14.2 and 14.5 (after being measured at 12.9 before starting) so it is being charged that way but I don't know if that's too much charge. Also is that normal for the meter to jump back and forth like that? If that is normal, the battery seems to be in perfect shape with no draining noticeable. I realize it could still be a bad cell.

I have tried to inspect every electrical connection that I can (admittedly without knowing what all of them are) and none look corroded at all.

Kick starting it to get it started in order to test the battery was, again, much harder than it ought to be but I learned another technique that makes me able to start it on the 3-5 try. So I don't know if that's a red herring.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:37 pm

jmazza wrote:While running, the battery shows its voltage hopping around anywhere between 14.2 and 14.5 (after being measured at 12.9 before starting) so it is being charged that way but I don't know if that's too much charge. Also is that normal for the meter to jump back and forth like that?

Yes.

jmazza wrote:Kick starting it to get it started in order to test the battery was, again, much harder than it ought to be but I learned another technique that makes me able to start it on the 3-5 try. So I don't know if that's a red herring.

It might be. About the only way to know for certain is to get a known-good battery in there and see what happens. Easier said than done, I know.

jmazza · Post by **jmazza** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:45 pm

I'm going to bring the battery in now- I guess just tell them that it holds voltage (seemingly) but please test it under load, etc for any possible problems (bad cell)?

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:57 pm

jmazza wrote:I'm going to bring the battery in now- I guess just tell them that it holds voltage (seemingly) but please test it under load, etc for any possible problems (bad cell)?

Yeah, just tell them it seems to charge, but won't turn the motor over. IIRC, they should have an automatic tester that does more than just check voltages. (I think it tests the internal impedance of the battery, which will be lower if there is an internally shorted cell.) When I took them my battery, it took them about 10 seconds to do the whole test.

Good luck!

jmazza · Post by **jmazza** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:25 pm

jrsjr wrote:
jmazza wrote:I'm going to bring the battery in now- I guess just tell them that it holds voltage (seemingly) but please test it under load, etc for any possible problems (bad cell)?
Yeah, just tell them it seems to charge, but won't turn the motor over. IIRC, they should have an automatic tester that does more than just check voltages. (I think it tests the internal impedance of the battery, which will be lower if there is an internally shorted cell.) When I took them my battery, it took them about 10 seconds to do the whole test.

Good luck!

Ten seconds is about right! They put it on two different handheld testers- one showed a perfect 10ah (under load is what they said) and the other tested cca's which were also perfect (I think 185).

They showed me the screen of the first tester- there was more on it than just the voltage and ah but I'm not sure if that tested the internal impedance. The end result is they said the batter is "better than new."

I'm just about at the end of the easy checks that I'm able to do. Keeping in mind that I'm a novice, is the starter relay the part that is under the seat bucket that clicks when I press the starter button? The one with a red and either black or green boot over the connections? I've inspected those connections and they seem good. And in full disclosure I also stupidly/accidentally touched the hot connection with my socket wrench while the other end contacted the frame and got a hell of a spark. So, I don't know if that could have fried it, but I'm still getting clicks only. Learning is fun

I have also inspected the connections (and reseated them) at the coil. The rubber boots around them are pretty much falling apart but the connections are clean.

Anyone able to easily describe to me what other parts/connections need to be checked? Are there any behind the front panel?

Can't thank everyone enough for walking me through some of this.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:42 pm

jmazza wrote:Ten seconds is about right! They put it on two different handheld testers- one showed a perfect 10ah (under load is what they said) and the other tested cca's which were also perfect (I think 185).

They showed me the screen of the first tester- there was more on it than just the voltage and ah but I'm not sure if that tested the internal impedance. The end result is they said the batter is "better than new."

Fair enough. At least you can be reasonably sure it's not the battery. In the online manual, page 103, is the procedure for scoping out the starting system. Unfortunately, my wife is standing around looking at her watch and waiting for me to take her to lunch as I promised 1/2 hour ago, so I'm going to have to go, but, take a look at the service manual procedure and see if it makes any sense.

P.S. Did you check your fuses after your little accident? It's best to disconnect the positive lead from the battery before using a wrench on electrical stuff. We've all done that before, though.

P.P.S. cca = Cold Cranking Amps, which means exactly what you think.

jmazza · Post by **jmazza** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:12 pm

Well, seems to be a bad starter (yes, with an r, not stator!). The shop is ordering a new one that should be in in a few days.

basil46 · Post by **basil46** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:30 pm

BOB adaptor I added my scooter few months ago. I doubt if it cause the problem because you don't have one but same problem as you describe above.
I left my respond message under my topic :electric starter issue on my 2009 buddy 125" after your message .

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:35 am

I don't think what I wrote earlier in the thread was misinterpreted, but just in case:

I am NOT saying the BOB adaptors are a bad thing--far from it! I have put them on two different Buddy's, have never had an issue. I would definitely recommend folks to get them for more visibility, the coolness factor, and to utilize their deadlights.

Where the problem may crop up is (if I'm recalling correctly from earlier posts) if someone connects into the wrong place for their power. I'm thinking it was when people connected to the power for their horn....someone correct me if I'm misremembering.

basil46 · Post by **basil46** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:20 pm

michelle_7728 wrote:I don't think what I wrote earlier in the thread was misinterpreted, but just in case:

I am NOT saying the BOB adaptors are a bad thing--far from it! I have put them on two different Buddy's, have never had an issue. I would definitely recommend folks to get them for more visibility, the coolness factor, and to utilize their deadlights.

Where the problem may crop up is (if I'm recalling correctly from earlier posts) if someone connects into the wrong place for their power. I'm thinking it was when people connected to the power for their horn....someone correct me if I'm misremembering.

Truth is I just got a call from my shop that BOB adapter drained the batter as result. The shop removed my BOB adapter and now my scooter work just fine.

jmazza · Post by **jmazza** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:35 pm

BOB adapters are a great thing but if you do mainly very short rides (like your commute, Basil) the battery can suffer.

If you want to keep the BOB adapter, just buy a Battery Tender Jr and use it nightly and you ought to be in good shape.

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:17 am

That or replace the deadlights with LEDs, which use less amps and are brighter than the deadlights. I did that, and really like it.

While I wasn't having issues with my battery getting drained, I was concerned about having the deadlights on all the time while my Garmin was plugged in to the 12-volt outlet at the same time for long distances.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:03 pm

michelle_7728 wrote:That or replace the deadlights with LEDs, which use less amps and are brighter than the deadlights.

Maybe Lil Buddy (the running light adapter guru) could do a kit that includes the correct replacement LED running lights.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Sun May 22, 2011 10:31 pm

jmazza wrote:As for the 10ah battery I got it after reading this thread. It seemed pretty conclusive that it would be a safe "mod."

Despite the smug write-off I got in that thread when I suggested that going to a higher-amperage battery might be problematic, I still think there may be issues. The dripping faucet and teacup analogy is all well and good, but if the faucet's not dripping fast enough to fill your teacup at a useful rate, it's a problem. I might have a charging system problem, haven't had time to diagnose it yet, but the problems cropped up immediately after I switched to a bigger battery in my Blur. It takes/holds a charge from the trickle charger just fine, but after an electric start or two and a half-hour ride, it's dead and I have to kickstart (and reset my clock grrrr).

Bb.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Mon May 23, 2011 5:11 am

illnoise wrote:
jmazza wrote:As for the 10ah battery I got it after reading this thread. It seemed pretty conclusive that it would be a safe "mod."
Despite the smug write-off I got in that thread when I suggested that going to a higher-amperage battery might be problematic, I still think there may be issues. The dripping faucet and teacup analogy is all well and good, but if the faucet's not dripping fast enough to fill your teacup at a useful rate, it's a problem. I might have a charging system problem, haven't had time to diagnose it yet, but the problems cropped up immediately after I switched to a bigger battery in my Blur. It takes/holds a charge from the trickle charger just fine, but after an electric start or two and a half-hour ride, it's dead and I have to kickstart (and reset my clock grrrr).

Bb.

Sorry to hear about your Blur problem. FWIW, I installed a 9Ah battery in my Blur over a year ago and have not had any problems. Maybe your regulator is bad? I assume you confirmed a charging voltage of 13-15 volts with the engine running at >1500 rpm?

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Mon May 23, 2011 5:48 am

illnoise wrote:
jmazza wrote:As for the 10ah battery I got it after reading this thread. It seemed pretty conclusive that it would be a safe "mod."
Despite the smug write-off I got in that thread when I suggested that going to a higher-amperage battery might be problematic, I still think there may be issues.

Bb, I presume this is the post from before that you found unconvincing?

Name Redacted to Avoid Hard Feelings wrote:
illnoise wrote:<snip>I don't know electrics very well, and what I do know is mostly centered around old Vespas, but It seems like a change in battery amperage could blow fuses, or the stator could have a harder time charging the battery, or there could be potential damage to the rectifier/regulator...<snip>
Yeah, um, "electrics" don't work like that. The new battery is a garden variety 12V replacement battery, just like the old one. Excessive current blows fuses. Ohm's law gives us: I=V/R. Now, if V hasn't changed and no electrical loads on the scoot have changed (the "R"s), then current doesn't change. No blown fuses. I could have installed the biggest Die Hard truck battery they carry, makes no difference, as long as its 12V.

I'm not entirely comfortable with that line of reasoning, either. I'm wondering if their argument takes into account the internal impedance of the battery itself. I do not speak fluent Battery, but I have to wonder if the internal impedance of a higher capacity battery would be lower. If so, wouldn't the higher capacity battery put a greater load on the charging system, pulling more current through the stator windings (and generating more heat) and the the voltage regulator (also generating more heat)? Again, I want to say that I am no expert on this, I'm just wondering if the argument from before was maybe a little oversimplified...

jmazza · Post by **jmazza** » Mon May 23, 2011 1:14 pm

Hmmm... interesting stuff. I've done a little bit of "research" (trolling other forums and battery FAQs- therefore the quotes around "research") and so far have found nothing but similar opinions on a higher ah batter being just fine. Most of the material I've read has had to do with electrical upgrades and recommendations of a bigger battery. But I'm probably the most novice of all in the thread here so I have a good respect for the other opinions.

I do want to restate, for anyone doing a quick read of the thread, that my starter problems predated my new battery by quite a while (with the first symptoms showing up probably 6 months very intermittently before the battery change). They were one of the reasons for a battery change in the first place. And so far, the new starter has fixed the problem completely. Of course, if this starter dies prematurely I'll report it here first!

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Tue May 24, 2011 7:04 pm

babblefish wrote:FWIW, I installed a 9Ah battery in my Blur over a year ago and have not had any problems. Maybe your regulator is bad? I assume you confirmed a charging voltage of 13-15 volts with the engine running at >1500 rpm?

No, I finally got around to testing it, and it's rocking 12.6 with or without the engine running (assuming I'm testing right, DCV across the terminals, right?)

I should also note I went all the way up to 12ah because it fit and everyone was insisting it'd work fine, ha. So maybe the alternator just happened to fry out when I upgraded the battery, but I can't help but suspect there's more to it than that.

MYSCTR · Post by **MYSCTR** » Tue May 24, 2011 7:31 pm

jmazza wrote:BOB adapters are a great thing but if you do mainly very short rides (like your commute, Basil) the battery can suffer.

If you want to keep the BOB adapter, just buy a Battery Tender Jr and use it nightly and you ought to be in good shape.

You will NOT need to use it every night, at best overnight once a week should be plenty OR change your battery to a slightly larger battery and WHAMO - ALL the problems go away!

We have the BOB on TWO Buddies (150 & 125) and did the battery mod (clip the lid to allow a 1/2" taller battery) so we have a larger capacity battery and have not yet ran a battery down. Both scooters ride fairly short distances like 3-4 miles or 6-8 miles 2x a week day and nothing on weekends at times.

That said - thank goodness this isn't a chinese scooter - "another starter issue?!?!?!"

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Tue May 24, 2011 9:31 pm

illnoise wrote:
babblefish wrote:FWIW, I installed a 9Ah battery in my Blur over a year ago and have not had any problems. Maybe your regulator is bad? I assume you confirmed a charging voltage of 13-15 volts with the engine running at >1500 rpm?
No, I finally got around to testing it, and it's rocking 12.6 with or without the engine running (assuming I'm testing right, DCV across the terminals, right?)

I should also note I went all the way up to 12ah because it fit and everyone was insisting it'd work fine, ha. So maybe the alternator just happened to fry out when I upgraded the battery, but I can't help but suspect there's more to it than that.

I think you have a charging problem. With the engine running at >1500 rpm, you should be seeing at least 13.5 volts at the battery. Either a bad stator or regulator.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Wed May 25, 2011 1:27 am

I tried it again when I got home and I was getting 13.0 DCV at high revs, which seems a little low, but it was charging, I rode to work and back and electric started a few times and Stebel'd a few bad drivers and I still had 12.6 with the engine not running, so either my wire-wiggling this morning fixed it, or it's intermittent. I'll keep an eye on it.

Bb.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Wed May 25, 2011 5:44 am

illnoise wrote:I tried it again when I got home and I was getting 13.0 DCV at high revs, which seems a little low...

It is low. As babblefish says, it should be 0.5 volts higher. Seriously, check that your main ground connection is good, then disconnect and reconnect the easy to reach stuff in the charging circuit just to make sure a little oxidiation isn't causing an ohmic connection somewhere.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Wed May 25, 2011 9:44 pm

Thanks, guys… Where's the "Main ground connection?"

Bb.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Wed May 25, 2011 11:11 pm

illnoise wrote:Thanks, guys… Where's the "Main ground connection?"

Bb.

If you look at the back half of your engine, you'll see an engine-to-frame attachment point at the very top of the crankcase (under the carburetor). There should be a fairly heavy gauge black wire connected there.
Or was it at the very back of the crankcase?......

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Thu May 26, 2011 12:24 am

Ideally, what you want to see is two shiny metal surfaces making good electrical contact, but don't get carried away trying to make it perfect or anything. Just clean it up and inspect it to make sure you don't have something that looks obviously wrong.

Same deal with all the other electrical connectors in the primary charging circuit, including the regulator. Just unplug the connectors, inspect them to make sure something obvious isn't wrong, then reconnect them. Often, just the act of unplugging and reconnecting connectors will be enough to clean them. Electronics technicians do this all the time. They call it "resetting" the connector (or component).

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Thu May 26, 2011 1:10 am

jrsjr wrote:<snip> Often, just the act of unplugging and reconnecting connectors with be enough to clean them. Electronics technicians do this all the time. They call it "resetting" the connector (or component).

We just called it "I guess I'll just try this because I don't know what else to do".

SkipsMom · Post by **SkipsMom** » Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:52 am

I'm having the same problem...It usually clicks, after about 4 tries...Then it starts..Hmmm does this sound like the battery needs to be charged...I'm still kinda new to scootering.. My bike is about 1 year old..

Modern Buddy

Another starter issue

Another starter issue

Re: Another starter issue