convince my wife!

[magpiash]

i want a scooter, preferably a buddy 125, but my wife is resisting.
she says she doesn't want to "spend money to save money", but i've caught her in weaker moments admitting that she doesn't want me risking the injuries that a scooter might bring. please aid me me in my quest to scoot!

[mattgordon]

Offer to buy her one too! That "got the job done" at my house! LOL

[MNBuddy]

I went to buy my wife one for her b'day and at the shop she said "it would be a lot more fun if we could go on rides together". So I bought one too, dealer gave us a volume purchase discount which was pretty decent.

Wife's is pink mine is orange.

We have a great time scooting on country roads

We always wear helmets and we took the MSF course together.

[mattgordon]

I went to buy my wife one for her b'day and at the shop she said "it would be a lot more fun if we could go on rides together". So I bought one too, dealer gave us a volume purchase discount which was pretty decent.

Wife's is pink mine is orange.

We have a great time scooting on country roads

We always wear helmets and we took the MSF course together.

Now you're talking! My wife and I scoot together, wear all the appropriate gear, took the ERC, and have a great time and great friends together. It's worth the money!

[Sweeper]

My ER doc, husband started out giving the "make sure your life insurance is paid up" line, but after seeing that I was doing everything I could to stay safe, by researching helmets and gear and signing up for the MSF course, he became more supportive. Now he points out the scooterists to me. Give her time.

[ICEMAN]

Have you laid out all the numbers for her on the savings? If you have not write it all down for her, some people are more receptive to seeing the savings on paper and looking at the numbers,

Take the current mileage of your vehicle compared to the buddy and calculate estimated savings per month, then stretch it out to a year, You must include the maintenance you would be performing on your vehicle as well and dont forget to mention the less miles you will be putting on that vehicle, the cost of maintenance on a scooter is far less than on a car or truck.

Also the Environmental impact if she is into that sort of thing.

I went from spending a minimum of $117.00 per month on gas to $13.00!! Approximately..........It may be less now due to gas prices have changed and I now have a better Idea on what the true mpg is on the scooter.

Also include multi line discount for insurance if you do not already have that.

Good luck and if that all fails...............how long will she stay mad if ya just go get one? a day or two? sometimes its better to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission........even if she is mad for a week look at how many years of scootin ya have ahead of you! LOL!!!!!!!!!!! Like I said good luck and I hope it works out for ya!

[cowgirl helmet]

Your wife does have a point: scooter riders are more vulnerable to injury than cagers. On some other boards, I've read some fairly horrific stories about crashes, largely caused by idiots in cars. No matter how careful a rider you are, there will be some crashes you just can't avoid.

Plus you haven't given us any additional information, like whether you have small children (or are expecting), whether you and she share your finances or have separate accounts, etc.

Especially if you have small children, or if you don't have health insurance, I can appreciate your wife's concerns. But I agree with Sweeper: show her that you're serious about safety, and that may assuage her fears.

If you don't share finances, you may just decide to go ahead and buy the scooter you want. But I would definitely recommend at least explaining to her the safety stuff Sweeper mentioned, as well as the environmental and financial issues Iceman talked about.

[Buddy_wannabe]

Well good luck ... My wife wasnt real up on the idea .... one day told her I was going to go look at them and I came home with one .... she wasnt too happy ... wasnt too mad ... she just informed me that I owed her

[Buddy_wannabe]

PS the saving money thing does not really pan out real well ..... I kind of ran the milage thing Buddy VS gas hog truck and found I would have to put ove 7000 mile on scooter just to recoop the cost of the scooter ... and that is not counting any of the "joy riding" miles ,,,, ohh well ... gotta have fun ..... It does save on wear and tear on other vehicle...

[Eddy Merckx]

Buy her one at the same time, and say to her that we only live once and we may never get the chance again, ( heck after all we will all be gone in fifty years or so any way) do it now !!

[ericalm]

It's hard for anyone who doesn't know you to give advice on such a topic. There are a lot of things you can do to reassure her, but the simple fact is that it's more dangerous than driving a car.

I don't advise doing it the way I did: I told my worried wife that despite her fears, I was getting a scooter. I don't make these kinds of decisions without her support, but went out on a limb here. Less than a year later, she had a Buddy and was riding as well. Then I crashed it and wound up with a serious injury. Ha. We both still ride, but also still worry about one another.

What you can do to reassure your wife: Plan on taking the MSF class (msf.org) before you buy, as has been suggested. Shop for and purchase good gear: armored jacket, gloves, boots and a full-face or modular helmet. And start off slowly, riding in parking lots and side streets until you're comfortable and have some good practice and experience.

Yes, the MSF and gear will add to your costs but they're worth it. The gear alone can run $500-$1000 depending on how you shop. Many buyers don't take this into account when planning their purchase.

Here's what not to tell your wife: Odds are you will have some sort of crash or will drop the scoot at some point. Sucks, but even most experienced riders go down eventually. It's not inevitable, just highly likely. Check out this thread:
topic635.html

[dru_]

PS the saving money thing does not really pan out real well ..... I kind of ran the milage thing Buddy VS gas hog truck and found I would have to put ove 7000 mile on scooter just to recoop the cost of the scooter ... and that is not counting any of the "joy riding" miles ,,,, ohh well ... gotta have fun ..... It does save on wear and tear on other vehicle...

Lol, I put 10k miles on my scooters last year, while my car got just under 1k.

[lobsterman]

My wife was against it at first as well, I had already sold our second car and was commuting by bus. I convinced her that riding the bus was sapping my will to live, and took too much time and was too inflexible a schedule compared to other commuting methods.

[magpiash]

thanks, everyone! i think i'm just going to show her this thread. that is with the probable exception of ericalm's crash thread.

we do have one small child (a 2 yr old girl) and i think cowgirl helmet is onto something by mentioning that. anyway, cheers again everyone. oh, btw, i KINDA did do the "just go get one & ask forgiveness later" thing. i told her i had bought one, that it was in the garage, and she was welcome to ride it whenever i wasn't going to. ...well, the look on her face was some kind of demon-spawned cross between outrage, anger, fear, regular rage, shock, horror, did i mention anger?, and i THINK resignation. but, i just don't think i'm going to go that route.

currently i just keep telling her how much i want one and always point out any scooter we pass by saying, "SCOOTER!". my hope is that she will be pummeled into submission by my annoying behavior.

[Dennis Abrams]

Hell, it only took me a year to convince my partner that driving a scooter wasn't an automatic one way ticket to paralysis and a slow lingering death. Good luck!

[ericalm]

currently i just keep telling her how much i want one and always point out any scooter we pass by saying, "SCOOTER!". my hope is that she will be pummeled into submission by my annoying behavior.

That's what I did for 8 years before just going out and buying one.
No, really...

[Tbone]

The need for a 2nd vehicle was high.

I included my wife in all my research involving my safety. Including me bitching about missing an opportunity to take the MSF course in April. I was then scheduled to take it in June.

Price for safety gear wasn't a factor but I still tried to get the most affordable gear I could find.

It's the 2ndary costs that are kind of a bitch and make it somewhat of a wash compared to getting a used car. The service costs are high. All the gear, the tire gauge and things like that start adding up.

In the end, I'd have waited a bit before buying my scooter but I STILL would purchase it! My wife knew that I've wanted one since I was 16/17 and the circumstances weren't right for me to get one. Now they are. Bring her along to look/test ride the scoots. Include her in reading Proficient Motorcycling. Email her this link:
http://msf-usa.org/downloads/Scooter_tips-screen.pdf

I hope she will compromise with you so you can get the scoot! Good luck!

[Dibber]

Look at it this way. So far several people have been killed or injured walking across the street, driving cars and motorcycles, or bicycle riding in Minnesota. I only know of 1 scooter accident and that person ran into a couple of parked, yes Parked, motorcycles. The driver received very minor injuries only. And that was from the accident not the bikers whose cycle got banged up. Also, I took my wife with me shopping and Ed from Scooterville put her on a scooter to test drive within the first 5 minutes we were there. She bought a Pink Buddy 125 and I bought a Red one. We love the bikes and drive them everywhere. These things grow on you very fast. Good luck and hope you get one soon.
The Dibber

[JeremyZ]

Having a kid should change your behavior a bit. It is not just about your enjoyment any more, as you owe it to her to be around. I read somewhere that you're 1200% more likely to die in a motorcycle crash than a car crash. (assuming faster scooters are roughly the same risk)

On the other hand, what is the point of going through life doing everything the safe way? You will get to be 50-60 and realize you have dedicated every minute of your life for your family. Not that this is bad, but would it really kill everything to have a bit of personal enjoyment here and there?

I look at it this way: If I die tomorrow, would I have any regrets? My answer is no. I have a neighbor that only does the responsible things. Has one responsible car, spends all his extra money paying extra on his mortgage. No wife, no kids, no debts. But he is not really happy. He convinces himself that he is, but he isn't. What he does for fun is go out to dinner 5X a week, buys a new car every 3 years, and walks around the neighborhood to stay in shape. He's 32. Pitiful, IMO.

I'm the complete opposite. I make more money than him, but spend it at every opportunity. I have a fantastic, understanding, fun-loving wife. She is much more responsible than I am and keeps me grounded. (that's what they're for) We have a kickass motorcycle, a Yamaha FJR1300. We ride it together all the time. She likes going 90 mph through long sweeping turns with me. We go do things together all the time. We travel every couple years. We make minimum mortgage, car, and bike payments and have some other debt too. We worry about it once in a while, but only once in a while. When we start having kids, we may sell the FJR and tone everything else down a bit, but I'm not going to stop having SOME fun for myself, even if there's a bit of risk involved.

FWIW - I like my Buddy, but if I had it to do again, I'd get a Yamaha Vino 125. PGO just hasn't thought of the details like Yamaha & Honda have on their scooters. The main disappointment is that the headlight is all but useless. The newer ones are supposed to be better, but I don't know.

[ERik3tb]

currently i just keep telling her how much i want one and always point out any scooter we pass by saying, "SCOOTER!". my hope is that she will be pummeled into submission by my annoying behavior.

That sounds familiar. I do the exact same thing. The wife just shakes her head and laughs

[cowgirl helmet]

currently i just keep telling her how much i want one and always point out any scooter we pass by saying, "SCOOTER!". my hope is that she will be pummeled into submission by my annoying behavior.

Ha! And you think that behavior will change when you get one?

I've gotten a whole lot worse since I got my Buddy. Whenever I hear an engine that might possibly be a scooter, my head swivels. "Who's that? What are they riding? Is it cool-looking? Do I know them?" And whenever I see a scoot parked on the street (or wherever), I have to take several minutes to go over and inspect it.

Maybe this is another message that you shouldn't show her.

[JNV]

I had a minor motorcycle accident back in 2000. After that my wife said no more bikes for me (even though I have been riding since I was 12). So after my neighbor bought a scooter she finally looks at me and says I could have a scooter if I really wanted to get back on two wheels. So I did, and I haver never regretted it, scooter are a blast to ride.
My point is start big, tell her you are looking at a Harley or maybe a Honda Rune. Once you get the argument going then downsize to a scooter.
FYI now my wife has gotten into scooters and we both ride, we have a blast. We are still considering a BMW for long distance touring but we use our scooters for commuting and short weekend trips 80-160 miles on them.

[peabody99]

Odds are you will have some sort of crash or will drop the scoot at some point. Sucks, but even most experienced riders go down eventually. It's not inevitable, just highly likely. Check out this thread:
topic635.html

statistical evidence please!

[ScooterDave]

I've gotten a whole lot worse since I got my Buddy. Whenever I hear an engine that might possibly be a scooter, my head swivels. "Who's that? What are they riding? Is it cool-looking? Do I know them?" And whenever I see a scoot parked on the street (or wherever), I have to take several minutes to go over and inspect it.

I am too busy snubbing other scooterists while riding one of my Vespas.

Dave

[ericalm]

Odds are you will have some sort of crash or will drop the scoot at some point. Sucks, but even most experienced riders go down eventually. It's not inevitable, just highly likely. Check out this thread:
topic635.html

statistical evidence please!

I have only the good kind of evidence: purely anecdotal, with plenty of unquantifiable extrapolation and maybe a little hyperbole and exaggeration.

Statistical evidence for scooters is hard to find. Most states lump scooters in with motorcycles in their accident statistics then don't provide enough detail (engine size, type of motorcycle, etc.) to allow filtering for what may be particularly important or relevant to scooterists. This leads to a lot of claims and assumptions in every direction.

I try to avoid truisms such as "there are two types of riders—those who've crashed, and those who haven't... yet." But reading MB, ModernVespa and other forums has led me to the conclusion that at some point, most riders drop their scoot or have some kind of crash, with severity varying from "no damage" to totaled, light bruises to fatality.

Yeas, I'm making a bit of a leap here, but I think it's a more realistic and safer leap than assuming that because a certain number of people haven't crashed, that it's less likely to happen to me.

[Tbone]

I am too busy snubbing other scooterists while riding one of my Vespas.Dave

[vitaminC]

statistical evidence please!

At the next scooter gathering you attend, ask everyone whether or not they've ever had a spill (moving or otherwise).

I've not dropped my scooter, but I've had some no-speed and slow-speed drops with previous motorcycles...

[peabody99]

statistical evidence please!

At the next scooter gathering you attend, ask everyone whether or not they've ever had a spill (moving or otherwise).

I've not dropped my scooter, but I've had some no-speed and slow-speed drops with previous motorcycles...

while it is hardly scientific, most have NOT. once you rule out pilot error (which includes inappropriate manuvers to avoid at fault cagers), drinking, inexperience, and speeding, the stats look much better. still the issue remains accidents are much more catostophic on 2 wheels than on in 4.

[ericalm]

statistical evidence please!

At the next scooter gathering you attend, ask everyone whether or not they've ever had a spill (moving or otherwise).

I've not dropped my scooter, but I've had some no-speed and slow-speed drops with previous motorcycles...

while it is hardly scientific, most have NOT. once you rule out pilot error (which includes inappropriate manuvers to avoid at fault cagers), drinking, inexperience, and speeding, the stats look much better. still the issue remains accidents are much more catostophic on 2 wheels than on in 4.

Why would you rule out pilot error and inexperience? Those are two things I'd think would be concerns for a spouse.

[JeremyZ]

Why would you rule out pilot error and inexperience? Those are two things I'd think would be concerns for a spouse.

I'm with Eric on this one.

Besides Peabody, where's your statistical evidence?

FWIW - numberical stats are so easy to manipulate that I trust collective experience of a group of people I can identify with over stats any day.

[peabody99]

true I agree with not ruling out inexperience, however an inexperienced person can choose to ride with in ther capability, or roll off the lot and drive everywhere w/o being ready. While I do not have memorized stats, I think we all recall our motorscycle classess: how many accidents were attibutited to alcohol, excessive speed, new drivers, and major injuries made more grave with not wearing helmets. In fact with a search of this site the original poster and probably find the MC manuel on line. If everybody crashed, I doubt these things would even be insurable! I would love to see scooter- only data though, as we are mixed in with motorcycles in crasd data, which go ahead and bitch at me...but I think they are generally as a group less safe that scooter riders (just my opinion...). In fact many around here at least, are not even licenced.
edit. here is some info (but missing new rider data)

Motorcycle Fatalities Increasing: Read the October 2001full report "Fatal Single Vehicle Motorcycle Crashes" (DOT HS 809 360) from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA); a study recently conducted on motorcycle accidents and safety

Here's a summary of NHTSA DOT HS 809 360:

Single vehicle motorcycle crashes account for about 45 percent of all motorcyclist fatalities. More than 38,000 motorcyclists have died in single vehicle motorcycle crashes between 1975 and 1999. The report claims to provide data for insight into possible causes for these fatalities. According to the report, from 1990 through 1999, there were a total of 11,038 fatal single vehicle motorcycle crashes. During that same time period, there were an estimated 294,000 non-fatal single vehicle motorcycle crashes. Of these, an estimated 39,000 involved property damage only and 255,000 involved injuries. Motorcyclist fatalities in single vehicle motorcycle crashes decreased each year from 1990 to 1996, reaching a historic low of 937 in 1996 and again in 1997. In 1998, the fatalities increased to 1,042 (11.2 percent increase); in 1998 and in 1999 they increased to 1,140 (9.4 percent). The overall increase in motorcyclist fatalities from 1997 to 1999 was 203 (21.7 percent).
Report Conclusions: Findings from the FARS (Fatality Analysis Reporting System) data illustrate possible reasons for motorcyclist fatalities in single vehicle motorcycle crashes:
• Helmet use among fatally injured motorcyclists below 50 percent
• More motorcyclist fatalities are occurring on rural roads
• High blood alcohol levels are a major problem among motorcycle operators
• Half of the fatalities are related to negotiating a curve prior to the crash
• Over 80 percent of the fatalities occur off roadway
• Undivided roadways account for a majority of the fatalities
• Almost two thirds of the fatalities were associated with speeding as an operator contributing factor in the crash
• Almost 60 percent of motorcyclist fatalities occur at night
• Collision with a fixed object is a significant factor in over half of the fatalities
• Braking and steering maneuvers possibly contribute for almost 25 percent of the fatalities
• More riders age 40 and over are getting killed
• Almost one third of the fatally injured operators did not have a proper license
1998 Motorcycle Facts:
• 2,284 motorcyclists died and approximately 49,000 were injured in highway crashes in the United States.
• Per mile traveled in 1998, a motorcyclist is approximately 16 times more likely to die in a crash than an automobile occupant. And 3x (times) as likely to be injured.
• Head injury is a leading cause of death in motorcycle crashes.
• In 1998, 46% of fatally injured motorcycle drivers were not wearing helmets at the time of the crash.
• NHTSA estimates that motorcycle helmets reduce the likelihood of a fatality by 29% in a crash.
• In 1998, 41% of all motorcycle drivers involved in fatal crashes were speeding.
• Nearly one out of five motorcycle drivers (18%) involved in fatal crashes in 1998 was operating with an invalid license at the time of the collision.
• Motorcycle drivers involved in fatal crashes in 1998 had higher intoxication rates than any other type of motor vehicle driver at 31%.
• In 1998, 500 motorcyclists lives were saved due to helmet usage; 307 could have been saved.

[ScooterDave]

Good thing I ride a scooter instead of a motorcycle.

Dave

[Dooglas]

Good thing Oregon has a ****** law and all riders wear ******* all the time (reading those stats - you would be ill advised to ride without one).

[louie]

for more stats, i recall reading that this report is still accurate today with some exceptions, maybe the ages of the drivers because of the the population.
http://www.magpie.com/nycmoto/hurt.html

[ericalm]

Good thing Oregon has a helmet law and all riders wear helmets all the time (reading those stats - you would have to be a real airhead to ride without one).

Now's the point where I have to get all moderator-y and and remind folks that discussion of helmet laws isn't within our posting guidelines. Anyone wanting to know why can PM me.

Helmet Laws
Helmet laws, and whether they should or should not exist, are a prohibited topic. It's a divisive issue, and arguing about it in this forum will not accomplish anything nor will it change anyone's mind. Everyone is welcome to wear a helmet or not wear a helmet, as their laws and desires permit; arguing about whether it's good or just or smart is pointless. Any posts in violation will be immediately and summarily removed and the poster will be warned against further infractions. Repeat offenders will be banned from the forum at my sole discretion.

[magpiash]

I had a minor motorcycle accident back in 2000. After that my wife said no more bikes for me (even though I have been riding since I was 12). So after my neighbor bought a scooter she finally looks at me and says I could have a scooter if I really wanted to get back on two wheels. So I did, and I haver never regretted it, scooter are a blast to ride.
My point is start big, tell her you are looking at a Harley or maybe a Honda Rune. Once you get the argument going then downsize to a scooter. FYI now my wife has gotten into scooters and we both ride, we have a blast. We are still considering a BMW for long distance touring but we use our scooters for commuting and short weekend trips 80-160 miles on them.

now this might be worth a try! i've got a few big boy motorcycle riders where i work, and i'll tell her that they've convinced me to "go big or go home"! at which point, hopefully, she'll say, you'll get killed on some big hog, why don't we just go buy a new scooter?" heh heh me likey!

now what was that someone said about rather getting a yamaha vino? true?

[gt1000]

now this might be worth a try! i've got a few big boy motorcycle riders where i work, and i'll tell her that they've convinced me to "go big or go home"! at which point, hopefully, she'll say, you'll get killed on some big hog, why don't we just go buy a new scooter?" heh heh me likey

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you ever mentioned if you've ridden before. If you have ridden, at least a little, you can skip to the next paragraph. If you've never actually tried a scooter the best advice I have for you is to convince your wife to take the MSF class with you. This way you both take the class and learn to ride together knowing the risks involved and the best ways to minimize those risks. You'll also find out very quickly whether riding is really for you. Riding is not for everyone. Based on the number of scooters I see in Denver that never move from their parking spaces (with odo readings well under 100 miles), most people who buy scoots don't enjoy riding. Anyway, if you both take the class you'll enter into the buying process fully informed with both eyes open.

I also wanted to thank peobody99 for the stats. Makes me feel like a genius for finally giving up riding helmetless at night after I've had lots to drink. Seriously, it's astounding to me that people still ride impaired. This is one rule that all of us here should promise to never violate. It's not a choice. Helmets are a choice in most states and it's best we just leave it at that. Riding at night is also a choice and something I always try to avoid. I don't do any recreational rides at night and even try to avoid night commuting. If I am out at night, it's only on roads I know very well.

Most riders have riding in their blood. If someone you love (and who loves you back) sees after the MSF class that it's in your blood, it's in everyone's best interest to let it take its course. Just make sure it's in your blood. Whether you ride or not, the money spent on the MSF is money well spent. And while riding is more dangerous than driving, it's probably safer than a lot of other activities or sports that millions do all the time.

[louie]

Most riders have riding in their blood. If someone you love (and who loves you back) sees after the MSF class that it's in your blood, it's in everyone's best interest to let it take its course. Just make sure it's in your blood. Whether you ride or not, the money spent on the MSF is money well spent. And while riding is more dangerous than driving, it's probably safer than a lot of other activities or sports that millions do all the time.

i took the course before riding anything. we lost a woman on the first day of riding when she decided that riding at the controls was not for her. the course was a lot less expensive than buying that sportster she'd already picked out. If you invite your wife to take the course and she feels the same as the one i just discribed it may work to your disadvantage. She could watch though.
my 2 cents,
the devils advocate