Some Things Should be Left Alone-Cushman Rebirth?

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:38 pm

A company name K-Jack has received CARB approval for a 400cc engine. A check of their website says they are re-birthing the Cushman Scooter.

There are no pictures of their products just old Cushman scooters. According to the CARB they will have 3 models: Eagle, Highlander, and Step Through http://kjackmotors.com/

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:19 pm

I thought the Yamaha C3 was already sort of a modern rebirth of the Cushman look. (though I am now having a vision of trying to roar down the road on a 400cc scooter that looks like an ice chest and has two wheels borrowed from a hand truck

)

still shifting · Post by **still shifting** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:33 pm

Hmmm Well I wonder what will come of this, and how soon? R

Scotter · Post by **Scotter** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:17 pm

From watching the demo I'm guessing its a new retro version of the highly collectable Mustang.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:03 pm

Scotter wrote:From watching the demo I'm guessing its a new retro version of the highly collectable Mustang.

There's already a Mustang replica out there from California Scooter Company. Around $5K.

These appear to be Cushman Eagle and other model repros. Hard to imagine them as 400cc bikes, though. Eagles are fairly small, as are other Cushmans.

Link (PDF) to their CARB approval document:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cer ... 0d8_hn.pdf

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:07 pm

I'd be all about it given that they are made in the USA. If not then I can't see myself being interested at all. I love the look of the Cushman scooters but we already have the Genuine for supreme style and Honda for supreme reliability. What I want more than anything is an American made scooter that has both, if they can manage that then I'm in.

Scotter · Post by **Scotter** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:08 pm

ericalm wrote:
Scotter wrote:From watching the demo I'm guessing its a new retro version of the highly collectable Mustang.
There's already a Mustang replica out there from California Scooter Company. Around $5K.

Oh, right, I forgot about those. I want one!

ericalm wrote:I think these may be Cushman Eagle repros. Hard to imagine them as 400cc bikes, though. Eagles are fairly small…

Whatever it is, judging by that illustration, it would appear to have 14 to 16 inch wheels.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:18 pm

Oops, I edited my previous post after there were replies. It's pretty much the same.

jasondavis48108 wrote:I'd be all about it given that they are made in the USA. If not then I can't see myself being interested at all. I love the look of the Cushman scooters but we already have the Genuine for supreme style and Honda for supreme reliability. What I want more than anything is an American made scooter that has both, if they can manage that then I'm in.

How much would you pay for it?

It's highly unlikely. What you MAY get is "assembled in the US" from parts sourced mostly from Asia, as is the case with CSC.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:41 pm

Cushman rebirth? So are they going to stick to the engineering ethos of taking weed wacker engines and cobbing them onto frames slapped together from steel conduit pipe and angle iron?

Throw on a coat of "John Deere" Green with a hand brush and throw in a "Good Bless 'Merica!" Sticker and I bet these will sell like hotcakes in the "heartland"!!

I'm sorry, but the Chushman just looks and rides like a monkey bike built in someone's barn. I can NOT understand why some of theses 'collectors' spend over $10k on a bike like that. They just look and ride like crap. Giving this product a "rebirth" is like trying to revive the Chevy Sprint. Just. Don't.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:45 pm

Sorry for the double posting, but I just checked out the link for their flash "ad"

....

Seriously! Sorry, I had very little respect for Cushmans before. This company's approach, if this is how they start a new "product" is as half assed as the bikes that preceded it.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:51 pm

From their FB page:

K-Jack Motors, LLC is committed to providing our customers with the highest levels of quality and service for all its products made in the USA. We have invested in the latest technology and equipment to provide the most cost effective solutions to our manufacturing process. K-Jack is a 50 year old company that has been manufacturing Newspaper vending equipment worldwide.

Cushman motor scooters II are completely built and assembled in our factory. We are proud of the fact that it is made in the United States. Mr. C delivered newspapers for the Los Angeles Examiner on a Cushman Step-Thru in the late 50’s. Mr. C redesigned, engineered and redeveloped the Cushman II scooter to meet EPA, DOT and CARB requirements.

K-Jack motors will be manufacturing several models of Cushman motor scooters. The first available will be the highlander, then the step-thru and the third model will be the Cushman Eagle. All models will be available in 12 standard powder coated colors and custom colors can be special ordered.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:02 pm

AND, photos of the Cushman II here:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/New-Cushm ... 6019169688

Small wheeled. Looks kinda like a Cushman, for better or worse. 400CC in this thing would be insane.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:06 pm

ericalm wrote:AND, photos of the Cushman II here:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/New-Cushm ... 6019169688

Small wheeled. Looks kinda like a Cushman, for better or worse. 400CC in this thing would be insane.

Wow. Can I call 'em or what? This does look like another piece of rejected farm equipment. No thank you.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:25 pm

Yes, they are putting 400cc engines in them.

I've asked about visiting their site to see them and maybe test ride one. We shall see!

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:56 pm

ericalm wrote:Oops, I edited my previous post after there were replies. It's pretty much the same.

jasondavis48108 wrote:I'd be all about it given that they are made in the USA. If not then I can't see myself being interested at all. I love the look of the Cushman scooters but we already have the Genuine for supreme style and Honda for supreme reliability. What I want more than anything is an American made scooter that has both, if they can manage that then I'm in.
How much would you pay for it?

It's highly unlikely. What you MAY get is "assembled in the US" from parts sourced mostly from Asia, as is the case with CSC.

I'd really have to think about it but 5-6k seems reasonable depending on the build and how much U.S. parts and labor are put into it. What I really want is for Harley to bring back the Topper but a Cushman wouldn't be bad either. As for whether it's made or assembled, I'd prefer a truly made in the USA scooter but I'll take what I can get. Hell, part of the attraction I had to Genuine was that at least the company itself was a U.S. company even if it did just rebadge scooters from Taiwan & India.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:59 pm

ericalm wrote:Yes, they are putting 400cc engines in them.

I've asked about visiting their site to see them and maybe test ride one. We shall see!

I'll be really interested in hearing what they say. It would be awesome to get a trusted review of one of these scooters.

Scotter · Post by **Scotter** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:02 pm

If it looks like this with 400cc then it should be bada$$!

How is The California Scooter Company doing these days?

laxer · Post by **laxer** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:05 pm

I like how they're pretty true to the original. Don't know if it would be my first choice of scooter, but it definitely has a distinctive look.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:08 pm

the only thing that worries me a bit is if they use a 400cc engine and don't give it disc brakes which it doesn't look like it has. Guess we'll have to wait till we can see the full specs.

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:15 pm

it is absurd that it could be a 400 on ride rider wheels.. I am thinking of "liking" it on facebook though so I can get more info. I will be kind of embarrassed though

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:30 pm

Aside for the base costs of labor, insurance, benefits, etc. we hear about driving up the cost of US manufacturing, for a company like this scale is going to be a huge issue as well. Building engines, gauges, brakes and all the other components for scratch would be hugely cost-prohibitive; many of these parts can't even be sourced from another company in the US at this point.

It's good to see small US companies having a (quixotic) go at something like this. I wish some would try to build something more original.

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:50 pm

Also like it or not, the market is much bigger for TNG's. The Stella is a replica of a much more popular classic-and does ok sales wise, but not a lot of people have"nostalgia" for a Cushman. This is going to be tough sell.
Between my riding needs, the reality that a shiftier requires more maintenance....(and how come there are not lots of high mileage reports on Stellas like Buddys??), I am have about extinguished my classic shiftier curiousness.

If that cooler on wheels were not a 400 (why so many cc's? I would not take that on the freeway) and CVT, I must say I would be temped. It is delightfully homely.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:05 pm

some folks must be nostalgic for them. I agree they don't scream sleak and sexy but there is something about the design that I just love. Maybe it's cause I'm from the mid-west and grew up around tractors

http://www.cushmanclubofamerica.com/

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:14 pm

I think that they're interesting from a historical standpoint and in terms of the evolution of scooters and riding.

To me, though, the only one that makes any sense for a reboot is the Eagle. Even then, a 400cc makes little sense to me.

still shifting · Post by **still shifting** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:41 pm

So is that the Highlander on the face book page? or the step through? R

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:48 pm

ericalm wrote:Aside for the base costs of labor, insurance, benefits, etc. we hear about driving up the cost of US manufacturing, for a company like this scale is going to be a huge issue as well. Building engines, gauges, brakes and all the other components for scratch would be hugely cost-prohibitive; many of these parts can't even be sourced from another company in the US at this point.

It's good to see small US companies having a (quixotic) go at something like this. I wish some would try to build something more original.

And more modern!!! I'm sorry But I wouldn't pay $1500 for THAT! No Disc brakes, primitive suspension and tube chassis only with nary a bit of controls aside from the basics? They *may* sell to collectors who are used to overpaying a few hipsters, but this thing is dead in the water.

Yes, I thought Cushmans were crap compared to the competition 60 years ago. These? They're a joke. I really wish an American company can make a success in the motorscooter market with only-US made bikes, but these guys are showing us how they plan to fail at it, not succeed.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:52 pm

still shifting wrote:So is that the Highlander on the face book page? or the step through? R

Probably the Highlander.

Original Cushman Step Through:

still shifting · Post by **still shifting** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:56 pm

I guess now would not be the time to start a, Do you have a nostalgic liking for John Deere Green poll?

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:56 pm

Now if they did one of these, I might be more interested…

These are both Cushman Allstates, which would further confuse the trademark issues.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:21 am

ericalm wrote:Now if they did one of these, I might be more interested…

These are both Cushman Allstates, which would further confuse the trademark issues.

Now, honestly these do look better than 90% of the Cushmans I see. Probably because they're made by Allstate. Normally I can't stand to even put those in the same category as Vespa, Lambretta or Honda of the era much less ride them.

Why not take something with a bit more substance and style and improve on the tech just a *little*? I mean, the suspension on the "new" version looks weaker than on the 60 year old bikes! I didn't see any disc brakes... I just don't get them

Silver Streak · Post by **Silver Streak** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:29 am

neotrotsky wrote:
Now, honestly these do look better than 90% of the Cushmans I see. Probably because they're made by Allstate.

NOTHING was "made by Allstate." Allstate was simply a Sears Roebuck & Co. house brand that they slapped on anything vehicular that was made by somebody else to be marketed by Sears.

Allstate Vespas, for example, were made by Piaggio and sold through Sears catalogs and outlets.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:31 am

Silver Streak wrote:
neotrotsky wrote:
Now, honestly these do look better than 90% of the Cushmans I see. Probably because they're made by Allstate.
NOTHING was "made by Allstate." Allstate was simply a Sears Roebuck & Co. house brand that they slapped on anything vehicular that was made by somebody else to be marketed by Sears.

Allstate Vespas, for example, were made by Piaggio and sold through Sears catalogs and outlets.

Let me rephrase: "Enhanced and licensed" by Allstate. Better?

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:53 am

I'm not a Cushman expert, but I think that unlike the Vespas, these Allstate Cushmans were unique. I don't know if they were just rebadges of another Cushman model, which would be a bit odd for a US-based product.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:31 am

All I know is that if they put a modern engine in these neo-Cushman's I will be first in line to buy one of each. I just love their uber-dorkiness. And if someone will start remaking the old Salisbury's I'll line up for them too... and the Heinkle Tourist's... Fuji's... what can I say, I LOVE old dorky scooters! Bring 'em on! So long as they are suitably powered for the modern world. That's what got me so excited about the Genuine Cruiser, the style guidelines it is rumored to draw its inspiration from.

Rail 50 · Post by **Rail 50** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:34 am

ericalm wrote:
still shifting wrote:So is that the Highlander on the face book page? or the step through? R
Probably the Highlander.

Original Cushman Step Through:

I had a green one.. It was a 1948 Road King... I was in a parade, at HOT AUGUST NIGHTS in Reno, and we were in age order, (I was with a 48 Indian, and a 48 Packard.) Starting from 1929, going up to 1964. That Cushman was so slow that when the parade arrived at the Hotel, I lost 13 years, showing up with the 1961 Corvairs...

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:00 am

Scotter wrote:If it looks like this with 400cc then it should be bada$$!

If it actually looked like that with a 400cc engine - it would scare me to death

.

Silver Streak · Post by **Silver Streak** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:43 am

ericalm wrote:I'm not a Cushman expert, but I think that unlike the Vespas, these Allstate Cushmans were unique. I don't know if they were just rebadges of another Cushman model, which would be a bit odd for a US-based product.

I suspect that -- just as now in the age of Walmart and its ability to dictate to its suppliers -- Sears in its heyday was able to specify exactly what it wanted to sell, and the manufacturers bowed and scraped to please them.

Scotter · Post by **Scotter** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:33 am

Dooglas wrote:
Scotter wrote:If it looks like this with 400cc then it should be bada$$!
If it actually looked like that with a 400cc engine - it would scare me to death .

LQTM. Bada$$ for sure. 14 to 16 inch wheels I tells ya! (Based on the illustration in the intro.)

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:12 am

Skootz Kabootz wrote:All I know is that if they put a modern engine in these neo-Cushman's I will be first in line to buy one of each. I just love their uber-dorkiness. And if someone will start remaking the old Salisbury's I'll line up for them too... and the Heinkle Tourist's... Fuji's... what can I say, I LOVE old dorky scooters! Bring 'em on! So long as they are suitably powered for the modern world. That's what got me so excited about the Genuine Cruiser, the style guidelines it is rumored to draw its inspiration from.

Now, if the new Genuine crusier looked like a Heinkle Tourist, I'd buy THAT in a heartbeat!!!

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:44 am

Rail 50 wrote:I had a green one.. It was a 1948 Road King... I was in a parade, at HOT AUGUST NIGHTS in Reno, and we were in age order, (I was with a 48 Indian, and a 48 Packard.) Starting from 1929, going up to 1964. That Cushman was so slow that when the parade arrived at the Hotel, I lost 13 years, showing up with the 1961 Corvairs...

That was a great joke, one of the best ever on Modern Buddy. I just wanted you to know that somebody appreciated it.

jrsjr · Post by **jrsjr** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:27 am

Skootz Kabootz wrote:All I know is that if they put a modern engine in these neo-Cushman's I will be first in line to buy one of each. I just love their uber-dorkiness.

Can we get an Amen in the house?!? Thank you for putting that so well. A disk brake. A modern 400cc motor. CVT. And über-dorkiness. A bargain at any price! Bring it on! And just to emphasize my point, I actually used an umlauted "Ü" in über. Take that, haters!

Bcon · Post by **Bcon** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:45 pm

Dooglas wrote:If it actually looked like that with a 400cc engine - it would scare me to death .

I wouldn't make any assumptions on power output based on displacement. It they mimic the "sound and feel" of the originals, it's completely possible that a 400cc engine could have low power compared to modern engines.

still shifting · Post by **still shifting** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:52 pm

That slab sided design would lend itself to a steam punk look don't you think? R

bgwss · Post by **bgwss** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:10 pm

I am all for something different and unique in the market place. The big question is can they make at price that warrants what they are selling. I hope so. The have one shot to impress the buyers.

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:56 pm

I like it. I'm not all caught up in the question of "is it cool enough to wow the chicks at the stoplight or the guy on the Harley". Don't care...the farm implement look IS cool...doesn't look like everything else out there. As for 400cc's on small wheels...doesn't bother me. I did well over 70 mph on my Buddy with no sense of unease.

I say encourage them. It's always easy to criticize from the sidelines...I be a LOT more impressed with your criticisms if you were attempting to do your own similar project.

--Keys

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:57 pm

I guess I would have to see and ride one in person. Hey, I'm not too far from Glendale. Eric, if you get an invite.......

Scotter · Post by **Scotter** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:44 pm

pcbikedude wrote:I guess I would have to see and ride one in person. Hey, I'm not too far from Glendale. Eric, if you get an invite.......

Me too! Me too!

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:29 pm

Between my riding needs, the reality that a shiftier requires more maintenance....(and how come there are not lots of high mileage reports on Stellas like Buddys??), I am have about extinguished my classic shiftier curiousness.

Pretty close to my thinking. There are things I like about the Cushmans and things I don't like. One thing I'm pretty much certain of is that I won't be buying any more "retro" bikes. I went down that road with the GT1000 and while I loved the look and most of the riding experience, most retro designs are too much of a compromise for me.

The GT had a modern engine/transmission/frame package but most of the other components were sub par. This was especially true of the suspension and wheels. It's the same thing for Triumph's classic line, the other Ducati Sport Classics, the Guzzi V7 line, the new Enfields, shifty scooters, etc. I understand the appeal, in fact, I actually spent my own money on one. But I learned very quickly that the cost of updating suspension, wheels, brakes, whatever would soon equal or surpass the original list price of the bike. So, I'll admire them all from afar. In fact, I took a long look at the V7 racer last week and it is a beauty. A beauty with heavy steel wheels and non-adjustable front suspension. If you love the look of any of these bikes, by all means, consider them. Just know in advance that they force some compromises on the rider.

I'll be very curious to see what sort of compromises the Cushman makes. No front disc is an absolute deal-killer for me and no rear disc on a 400 is a major sacrifice. Still, I can't wait to see a few in person.

chloefpuff · Post by **chloefpuff** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:15 am

ericalm wrote:AND, photos of the Cushman II here:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/New-Cushm ... 6019169688

Small wheeled. Looks kinda like a Cushman, for better or worse. 400CC in this thing would be insane.

Hey, I see they "like" the Ramones. Therefore their proposed product must be good!

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:14 am

jrsjr wrote:
Skootz Kabootz wrote:All I know is that if they put a modern engine in these neo-Cushman's I will be first in line to buy one of each. I just love their uber-dorkiness.
Can we get an Amen in the house?!? Thank you for putting that so well. A disk brake. A modern 400cc motor. CVT. And über-dorkiness. A bargain at any price! Bring it on! And just to emphasize my point, I actually used an umlauted "Ü" in über. Take that, haters!

ok we have just gone full circle and can merge this with all our genuine cruiser wish lists. If the above happened I would be first in line...but I need the wheels to be big enough to be stable on freeway. I wanna metal body too...