Buddy 125/Motorcycle Newbie Dilemma

[sleepyk]

Hello everyone!!
With my 1989 Honda Accord breaking the 200k mark and paying off my wife's Honda Element our thoughts began to turn to replacing my car. Then we started thinking how nice it would be to not have a car payment every month. I live close to work and a scooter would be an inexpensive *and fun* way to get around. I would still have my car in the garage for scary weather and other occasions. I've done plenty of research online and the Buddy 125 seems to be the best in both value/quality.


So the wife an I signed up for the MC Safety Course fully planning to learn how to ride and pass the exam on a manual motorcycle with the intention of buying a scooter after we passed. After two days of riding 250cc starter cruisers (Honda Rebel and Suzuki GZ-250), we had a BLAST (and passed the exam). So now we are trying to figure out if we should get a Buddy or a 250cc motorcycle.

I think we may take a trip down to Metro Scooters in Cincinnati on Wednesday to get some hands on time with the Buddy. I'm hoping we'll come back leaning one way or the other, but I'd be interested in hearing from those of you have own(ed) both. Does one need more maintenence than the other? Strengths/Weaknesses?

Thanks!!!

[Kevin K]

The Buddy is an excellent commuter, and it's quick and nimble in traffic. That being said, there's a plethora of good 250 motorcycles out there. The bottom line is in how you will use it. If you're planning to ride longer distances, the Buddy will do it, but you won't be as comfortable. There are those that may disagree with that statement, and the Buddy has proven itself on both the Lake Eerie Loop and the Mad Bastard Rally. My personal view is that the ride is a little harsh for longer rides, but please remember that this is the view of a 40+ year-old that has ridden mostly motorcycles (and a pretty cushy vintage Vespa) most of his life, so take that for what it's worth. It will be fine for most.

Susan LOVES her Buddy but, as she puts more miles on it, wishes for a bigger, more comfortable bike in addition to Buddy. Especially when we go exploring the back roads of the western Twin Cities.

Maintenance issues on Buddys haven't been a huge issue for most owners.

Just my 2 cents.
-K

[pcbikedude]

+2
250cc motorcycle and 125cc Buddy are completely different animals.

Pros for the Buddy, you have underseat storage plus you can add a top case and/or saddlebags, or even a milk crate if you like. You can only add saddlebags to a mc. Very nimble and you don't have to shift. You should be able to ride with a group of scooters and keep up easily.

Cons, as stated before, the Buddy seat is not very comfortable for long trips. Less power and some people (including myself) don't mind shifting and think it is part of the fun.

Pro for the mc, more power, smoother ride.

Cons for the mc, if you are thinking about riding with a group, you're going have trouble keeping up with the larger cruisers on a 250cc bike. I would suggest a slightly larger bike for group riding. It is larger than the Buddy and not quite as nimble.

I use my Buddy for commuting and pleasure riding (85/15%). At times, I have to carry small printers, computers and laptops. I just bungy them down to the Buddy. I couldn't do that with a Rebel or a GZ250.

As far as reliableability, they are equal. I've seen Honda Rebels start having problems with less than 3K miles on them. Ditto with the Buddy.

[JeremyZ]

I think this should come down to what your commute is like.

Is there a lot of stop & go? If so ---> Buddy. Having your clutch arm screaming for dear life after 5 miles of stop & go takes all the fun out of motorcycling. It's also not cool to have a Popeye left forearm and a normal right one. Constant shifting in traffic gets old too.

What's the top speed on the commute? If it's faster than 55 --> 250cc. (motorcycle or scooter)

Motorcycles get better fuel economy per cc of engine size.

Motorcycles (or large wheeled-scooters) are safer at speed than small-wheeled scooters. The larger wheels give more gyroscopic stability.

Motorcycles are easier to stop in a hurry.

Motorcycles can run over larger animals without endangering your life. (I hit about a 30 lb. raccoon on my old Concours once; wouldn't want to do that on Bud) Not a bright though, but it happens. Hit anything bigger than a squirrel on a Buddy and you're screwed.

Scooters are handier in general, having built-in storage capacity. Motorcycles have to be adapted to have carrying capacity. Most motorcycles will accept a locking topcase, but good ones are not cheap. I'm not a big fan of saddlebags, as they stick out into the airstream and ruin fuel economy. Also, you get buffeted around in the wind a lot more with them. I'm not at all concerned with the higher center of gravity that a fully loaded topcase gives, because I'm used to riding with my wife on the back. This is much more of an effect than a fully loaded topcase.

I like shifting my motorcycle. There is a sense of pride that comes with being smooth in all aspects of motorcycling, and well-executed shifts on a slick gearbox are sensory delight for me. But on the other hand, is nice to lean into a turn on Bud, and just be able to gently twist the throttle and know that I have the exact gear ratio I need right there. Not that I mind shifting, but it is nice to just relax sometimes. Just like driving an automatic transmission car vs. a manual. You're more involved with the manual, but that's not always what you want.

I rode Bud to work this morning, about 28 miles. 25-55 mph speed limits. I would have dreaded doing it on my bike, as about a half hour of it was stop & go.

So, to bring it to a head, it depends on what your commute is like.

[Tbone]

Wow the comments given already summarize everything else I was going to say.

Except this: Think about the advice already given, what are your needs.

Then, Test ride. That'll be the deciding factor.

It sounds like you and your wife are both ready for the 2 wheeled adventure which is great. Also factor in, if she were to "borrow" the 2 wheels which would she feel better riding and which would YOU feel better for her to ride?

[gt1000]

I can't add much to what's already been said either. If I were you guys, I'd set aside a couple of days to test ride as many different bikes as possible. I'd also test as many different sizes as possible. If you can, take your test drives on the same roads you commute on (or similar roads).

I own both a Buddy and a liter sport bike. At the time I purchased these bikes, I envisioned myself giving both bikes equal attention. In practice, it hasn't worked out that way. On my daily commute through the city, I always reach for the Buddy keys first. I ride the Buddy pretty much every day while I reach for the motorcycle keys for recreational and longer rides, typically once or twice a week. Riding this way I've put 1800 miles on the Bud this past year and about 3100 miles on the bike. Any time my route takes me on a freeway it's motorcycle all the way. If my commute was on the freeway, I probably wouldn't own a scooter. To me, it's very important to have the option of a quick downshift with lots of throttle just in case something strange happens at high speed. I don't care how big your scooter is, it won't have the immediate acceleration of a good sized motorcycle. Also, I'm just not a big fan of maxi scoots.

[Dibber]

My wife and I bought new 125 Buddy's last June and I put over 1000 miles on mine. In fact I just took a 73 mile run checking out some duck hunting ponds and I averaged about 60 mph as the speedo goes and got 96.5 MPG during the run. Had a great time too. Maintenance. All I have had to do so far are the recommended oil changes and gear oil change during break in and after 1000 miles. The two scoots have been flawless and we love them. MPG increases several times per each tank of gas. Now we are in the mid to upper 90's and holding there. Good luck shopping and I hope you get a scooter. PS. I have owned 6 motorcycles and will not buy another. There is just a whole new positive attitude when scootering vs motorcycles from people you drive past and your own therapudic well being. Take care and enjoy.

[sleepyk]

Thanks for all the great advice everyone!!!!

The roads I plan to be on the most range from 25 to 55 mph. To work, it is strictly 25 mph. It is only 2 miles but it is on the main road to get to the school and then a short (500 ft.) jaunt on the same road the mall is on.

In reality, I will be using the vehicle for commuting and errand running. I imagine we will be finding excuses to take it everywhere when we initially get it. I don't see any group riding in the future since we don't know anyone with motorcycle/scooter.

The points about the clutch and storage are excellent.

I feel like we had the ultimate test drive with the motorcycles this weekend. Since this weekend was our first motorized 2-wheel experience, I think our confusion stems from 2 wheel euphoria. I imagine we'll get that same feeling when we hop on a Buddy as well. I have to think I'll probably miss the excitement fo shifting gears though. The scooter is most likely the best choice for practicality (storage, gas milage, ease of use) and will certainly be fun.

BTW: I found a low mile 2005 Honda Big Ruckus online and we are scheduled for a test drive on that as well tomorrow. Thanks y'all!!!!

[JeremyZ]

Sounds like scooter all the way to me.

Honda Big Ruckus: a couple things to watch for:

1) No locking storage, but plenty of places to lash things down to.

2) Tool kit is not that well thought out, and they're known to fall out of their little holder things.

3) Bad aerodynamics and bad for cold weather riding.

4) Awesome backrest, which changes to a passenger seat if needed.

The Buddy will happily do 55 mph. You can push it to 64 or so, indicated, but it will go 55 all day. Plus, you can get TWO of them for one Big Ruck probably.

For more info on the Ruckus, check out www.totalruckus.com.

I prescribe two Buddy 125s & call me in the morning.

[smokin_cannon]

you might consider your future needs/desires. while motorcycles are typically more expensive, if you buy a 250 motorcycle this year, will you wish for a larger one next year?

you might consider something larger, e.g. hyosung makes a nice 650cc cruiser and standard street bike for a very reasonable price.

my wife has a buddy and i have a motorcycle. for longer and highway rides, i love my motorcycle, but i also love riding the wife's buddy. for in-city riding, it's hard to beat the buddy. because it's small and nimble, i can get through downtown columbus faster on her buddy than on my 650.
a u-turn on the buddy requires about 5-6' of road width whereas a motorcycle needs much more. also, i can literally pick up the back end of the buddy and turn it around in our 1-car garage. i can't do that with my 475lb bike.

you'll be happy either way; good luck and enjoy your new ride!

[gt1000]

The roads I plan to be on the most range from 25 to 55 mph. To work, it is strictly 25 mph. It is only 2 miles but it is on the main road to get to the school and then a short (500 ft.) jaunt on the same road the mall is on.

In reality, I will be using the vehicle for commuting and errand running. I imagine we will be finding excuses to take it everywhere when we initially get it. I don't see any group riding in the future since we don't know anyone with motorcycle/scooter.

First of all, the most important thing is that you ride what you really feel you want to ride. If you're really lusting for a motorcycle, buying a scooter won't rid that lust from your system.

Based on your quotes above, if I were you, I think I'd be better served with the right scooter. I know that if it was me and I was riding the roads you're describing, I'd be reaching for the scooter keys instead of the motorcycle keys the vast majority of the time. Hell, my motorcycle wouldn't even be warmed up with that kind of riding. My typical commute is 4-5 miles one way on residential streets. When I ride my big bike to work, maybe once a week, I wake up 45 minutes earlier than normal so I can take an actual ride before going into work, otherwise my bike doesn't warm up fully.

One last thing. No matter what you decide, if you buy new, make sure all of your rides during break-in are at least 15 or more minutes so that you're going through full warming and cooling cycles for each ride. In other words, ride until the bike fully warms up. Once you shut down, let the bike rest until it cools to ambient temperatures.

[JeremyZ]

Hell, my motorcycle wouldn't even be warmed up with that kind of riding. My typical commute is 4-5 miles one way on residential streets. When I ride my big bike to work, maybe once a week, I wake up 45 minutes earlier than normal so I can take an actual ride before going into work, otherwise my bike doesn't warm up fully.

I thought I was the only one bothered by this. I had a Nighthawk 250, which I sold in favor of a scooter, largely for this reason. It ran for crap until it was warmed up, and 85% of the time, I didn't ride it long enough to warm up. So it was always a choppy right. Delayed throttle response, dead RPM zones.. Yuck.

The FJR warms up much more quickly, but it is a waste to drive it 1.7 miles then park it again. It would just be getting warm by the time I arrived.

Bud is perfect. I start it as I'm putting on my gear. After a couple minutes, before I even ride away, the auto choke has turned off and it is at a nice steady idle.

[sleepyk]

The roads I plan to be on the most range from 25 to 55 mph. To work, it is strictly 25 mph. It is only 2 miles but it is on the main road to get to the school and then a short (500 ft.) jaunt on the same road the mall is on.

In reality, I will be using the vehicle for commuting and errand running. I imagine we will be finding excuses to take it everywhere when we initially get it. I don't see any group riding in the future since we don't know anyone with motorcycle/scooter.

First of all, the most important thing is that you ride what you really feel you want to ride. If you're really lusting for a motorcycle, buying a scooter won't rid that lust from your system.

Based on your quotes above, if I were you, I think I'd be better served with the right scooter. I know that if it was me and I was riding the roads you're describing, I'd be reaching for the scooter keys instead of the motorcycle keys the vast majority of the time. Hell, my motorcycle wouldn't even be warmed up with that kind of riding. My typical commute is 4-5 miles one way on residential streets. When I ride my big bike to work, maybe once a week, I wake up 45 minutes earlier than normal so I can take an actual ride before going into work, otherwise my bike doesn't warm up fully.

One last thing. No matter what you decide, if you buy new, make sure all of your rides during break-in are at least 15 or more minutes so that you're going through full warming and cooling cycles for each ride. In other words, ride until the bike fully warms up. Once you shut down, let the bike rest until it cools to ambient temperatures.

I should know that I'm too practical to buy a motorcycle for everyday commuting. It was too much damn fun. Sounds like the scoot is the way to go and maybe I'll pick up a used motorcycle for weekend fun when some funds materialize (that Hyosung cruiser is h-o-t).

The warmup period is something I was completely unaware of. Good stuff.

I'm off to test drive. Thanks again!

[BlueMark]

Some other things to think of.

Buddy is just plain fun to ride, perfect for local commuting.

If you are interested in better handling and manners - test ride the Blur, it has phenomenal handling, a slightly larger engine (150cc) and an oil cooler - so it should last a bit longer and be capable of longer rides. It isn't really any faster than the Buddy - but it feels like it could be.

If money is no object, check out the Piaggio MP3. It is the most fun you can have on 3 wheels, and you can fit all the groceries in the trunk.

-Mark

[JeremyZ]

Bluemark: The salesman at scooterworks said nearly the same thing as you. He said that since the Buddy is so fast for a 125, the Blur is probably only 5-10 mph faster, but that it is a much more stable ride at speed.

Edit: Not to mention that the Blur really looks the business. Buddies are OK looking, but the Blur is

[sleepyk]

MP3 would be a dreamy ride. I don't know if I want to make my first scooter purchase in the $6k range though. I'm sure people will be bugging me enough about a normal scooter, I can only imagine people wanting to talk to me at 65 mph about my 3-wheeled wonder. My wife told me that this is going to be my main vehicle and if she is being pushy on which scooter to get to tell her to bug off! How about that?? Maybe the MP3 isn't such a bad idea..... Ha!

I took that Big Ruckus for a spin and had a ball. Not a whole lot of pick-up, but really comfortable and it balanced really well at a near stop. I really need to have some storage and I'd really have to settle with a bungied milk crate or aftermarket removable storage system.

We are visiting Metro Scooter tomorrow and may also take a look at a used Buddy 125 from the "for sale" section of this very site.

[vitaminC]

For a flat commute of under two miles, I would consider a bicycle...

You are saying "we" will be using it- at the same time or separately? For two-up riding it can be a bit cramped on the Buddy, and you may want something a little larger if you're planning on that.

[sleepyk]

I actually do ride my bike about half the time now. On days I need to meet with customers or if it is blazing hot I drive. I also believe in the next couple of years my work location might get bumped out another 10-12 miles.

I think we are going to end up with two scooters before either of us are brave enough to try 2up on a scooter. At this point I think it is going unsaid that my wife will have something of her own within the year.

[sleepyk]

After a bunch of test driving....I fell in love w/a 1995 Black Honda Helix (truly the Cadillac of scoots). I was never attracted to the look, but the ride is undeniable. Brought it back to the Gem City from Cleveland this weekend and have been out on it constantly. The scooter was definitely the way to go.

Thanks for you opinions and advice!!

[Tbone]

Sad that you didn't get a Vespa or a Buddy but CONGRATS ON FINDING THE RIGHT RIDE FOR YOU AND YOUR WIFE!!!