want few more MPH from Buddy 170i. Variator? Gear swap?

lactoferment · Post by **lactoferment** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:51 pm

(I suspect that any mod that applies to the 150 or even the 125 would also apply to me...)

I just got a Buddy 170i and I am very pleased with it.

I do find myself hopping on the freeway. I can reliably get up to about 70 (indicated), and depending on how much runway, wind, slope, etc., I can inch my way a little higher (indicated).

I would love to be able to reliably get to an indicated 75 or 80.

I am willing to give up a little bit of low-speed acceleration to get a little more top speed, if necessary.

Would be great to hear from anyone who has done these mods on a 170i, 150, or 125.

What mod?

What brand parts?

From where?

How much $$$?

Pros and cons?

Any other mods I should consider? Pipes help low-end more, from what I understand...

Thank you.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:33 pm

How many miles are on your scooter? You won't achieve optimum mph until you've reached about 1500 miles assuming all proper services have been done.

Post by **ericalm** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:30 am

Not all of the mods will apply to the injected 170s. There's not a cylinder kit for them, for instance. Also, while you may be able to fit a pipe for a 125/150, it may not be optimized for the 170 and might not improve performance.

Honestly, a cylinder kit for the 170 may not yield a lot of additional power. As far as I know, the 170 has the same crank/stroke length as the 125s and 150s. (Anyone know if that's incorrect?) There are diminishing returns from continuing to increase the bore without upping the stroke as well. It may just result in "empty displacement."

Your best (and cheapest) bet would be to go for a variator and heavier rollers. In fact, a set of rollers only runs around $30 or so so you may want to see what you can do with the stock variator before plunking down for a performance one such as an NCY or Dr. Pulley.

But, as Skootz said, if you're under 1200 miles or so, the engine isn't fully broken in and you should probably wait to do anything along those lines.

If you're under 600 miles, you shouldn't be riding WOT for extended periods anyways!

lactoferment · Post by **lactoferment** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:44 am

Cool, thanks both of you for your posts.

What you say makes sense. I will give it until 1200 or 1500 or so and see where I'm at. If I get another few MPH by then, I'll be all set. I'm only at 350 or so right now.

I'm not doing a LOT of WOT, but it is pretty hard to resist...

I'd lean towards transmission/rollers/gears/final drive type mods over engine internal mods, for all sorts of reasons, including the fact that the thing runs so darn well right now and I don't want to change that. Along with the excellent reasons you give.

$30 for rollers, but someone would have to take the whole thing apart. Wonder if that would be me or my local shop...if it's the shop, then that's another $100 or 2 for labor...so it would be tough for me to try it out and then change my mind.

But let's see what happens in the next 1000 miles.

Thanks again--

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:01 am

If the 170 breaks in anything like my 150 I'll guess you have about another 10mph +/- to look forward to. Most important is that you break it in correctly and get your services done just as prescribed. That could ultimately affect your long term engine performance more than any mod.

Assuming the 170 and the 150 share the same transmission, once you are all broken in, you might consider the GY6 CVT (Dr. Pulley) Performance Kit. I have it installed on my scooter and am very pleased. I actually modded my scooter (via spring stiffness and slider weight choice) to lose some top end in favor of better ability to hold speed up hills, but there are many others here who have done the opposite.

2wheelNsanity · Post by **2wheelNsanity** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:55 am

Hello, I to am a new buddy 170i owner with 500miles on mine. I also plan on upgrading my scoot with a few parts from: www.scooterworks.com/Default.aspx I thought about going with the NCY Super Transmission Set (Genuine, GY6) and a performance exhaust, haven't decided which. I plan to install the mods in the spring, by then I should have over 1500miles on it. If you have your mods installed before then let us know how much improvement you get. Thanx ;~).

jijifer · Post by **jijifer** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:44 am

I have a buddy 125. Kitted with big bore kit+ 150 head. I put in the NCY transmission kit a couple of months ago now and saw no gain in MPH. I needed a new clutch so I just did the mod.

Another caveat with the 170 is the heat sensor. If your engine gets too hot, it shuts down. Most people using these as freeway bikes are seeing this. Your MPG tanks, too. Most increase in MPH means increase in heat.

For any gain in top end MPH you get from heavier rollers you lose bottom end. That means you are slower off the line. That feels more dangerous to me than going faster than my tires are rated. with the NCY transmission kit I went from 11g sliders to 12g sliders. 11g were just too light 13g were too sluggish. 12g seems just right but no gain in MPH on the top end. Just really smooth in the powerband.

Good luck.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:23 pm

I don't want to start a whole slider vs. roller debate, but I've yet to be convinced of any performance benefits of sliders that couldn't be accomplished with the right combination of rollers. It is true, as jijifer notes, that the powerband is smoother with sliders.

2wheelNsanity · Post by **2wheelNsanity** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:04 pm

Not to sound insincere but why didn't you buy a Blur 220i if you needed a freeway goer? I did some math and I think thats the route I'm going with. The Blur seems to be a great blend of an intown scoot with highway capabilities. I think it might be the answer to your needs. Just a thought, :~).

www.genuinescooters.com/blur.html

www.justgottascoot.com/blur2010.htm

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:07 pm

2wheelNsanity wrote:Not to sound insincere but why didn't you buy a Blur 220i if you needed a freeway goer? I did some math and I think thats the route I'm going with. The Blur seems to be a great blend of an intown scoot with highway capabilities. I think it might be the answer to your needs. Just a thought, :~).

www.genuinescooters.com/blur.html

Because lots of people don't like the modern styling of the 220. Also, everyone's hoping and waiting for a retro-styled 300 from Genuine!

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:08 am

To get more MPH from any vehicle boils down to simple physics - one needs either more rpms' from the engine or a different final gear ratio. You can modify your engine until it makes 100 HP, but if the engine's redline is stock and the final gear ratio is the same, you won't go any faster, you'll just get to your original top speed faster. That being said, I don't know of any gear sets available for PGO engines and the redline of the 170i engine is probably limited by the programming in the ECU.

Silver Streak · Post by **Silver Streak** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:33 pm

Furthermore, if you are already using up all the engine's horsepower to overcome wind resistance at top speed, gearing changes are not going to make you go faster. The only way to get more top speed under those circumstances is either to make more horsepower or lower your aerodynamic drag.

If you don't already have one, installing a small windscreen (AKA a "flyscreen") is probably the easiest and cheapest way of picking up a few more mph at the top end.

Rippinyarn · Post by **Rippinyarn** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:50 pm

Just an FYI, the heat warning on 170s and Blur 220s doesn't shut down the engine - that would be pretty exciting! It turns on the warning light and increases fueling in order to cool the engine. It also ups the idle at stops for the same reason. There is some debate as to if it limits RPMs at highway speeds (mine didn't). It's also apparently pretty rare. An "ignition off" removes the warning and I've heard that the warning is set pretty conservatively (low) in the ECU, so that even with the warning, it's just that - a warning - not a sign of irreparable engine damage.

My 2 cents on the OPs problem is that the Buddy is far from a freeway cruiser, mostly due to the tiny wheels and imperfect pavement, rather than speed. Sure a quick on and off, maybe a few miles might be OK, but it's awfully small and light for distance restricted access highway use. Ride safe out there!

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:57 pm

There's a rev limiter of some sort on most CVT scooters, but it's not related to heat.