engine broke

deserthealer · Post by **deserthealer** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:00 pm

I was riding yesterday and the engine cut off. The dealer just informed me there was no oil in it. They had just replaced the oil a month ago. I last checked the oil 2 weeks ago with no problem. They say there is no leak and the warranty won't cover. He's checking the $ on a new engine. I have almost 10,000 miles. Any thoughts? This is sounding expensive!

BlueMark · Post by **BlueMark** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:24 am

I would ask again about the warranty.

Oil just doesn't disappear. The dealer changed the oil, the dealer says there isn't a leak. How do they know? Just refilling it doesn't prove a thing. A running engine can leak oil where a seized stationary engine refilled with oil won't.

And if oil is not leaking out of the engine, it sure could have been burning in the engine.

I say the warranty DOES cover it unless they can prove otherwise.

JeremyZ · Post by **JeremyZ** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:14 pm

This is one good thing about having the dealer do the work.

They changed the oil, therefore, if it leaked out and burned up the engine, it is THEIR FAULT.

Hell, even if the oil somehow burned up, it is a warranty issue.

They're scared by the fact that you have 10k on your Buddy. If it is replaced under warranty, Genuine or PGO will reimburse them, so I don't know why they are being punks about it.

What could have happened to all that oil? Was it smoking at any point? That would indicate that either it leaked somewhere hot and burned off.

SCOOTER SOLDIER · Post by **SCOOTER SOLDIER** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:47 pm

Did you check the Oil level yourself before the Dealer checked it and told you it was dry?

Did the motor Break and leak the oil out after?

Do NOT let this go, that DEALER should HONOR the WARRANTY in FULL if you did not work on it and they did the oil change......

IF they do not please post the name.....address and phone number of that dealer on this website and all other websites where scooter chat is happening and detail your issues with the scooter........I would also contact Genuine Scooter Directly if they do not and detail your issues with them not honoring the warranty........

I would start there and let them know that this will be ADVERTISED to the fullest extent if they do not do what is right.........

I had a similar issue with a company not wanting to HONOR its warranty and it took a little time but they finally did the right thing......sometimes you just have to keep pushing and keep talking........ya dont need a lawyer but you do need persistance, I sent them Links to SCAM message boards detailing my messages on those websites and that got their attention really quick....it was all factual and they ended up apologising and giving me more than I was asking for in the beginning...

Most folks just accept what they tell them and PAY...........DONT LAY DOWN if you did nothing wrong.....you bought the scooter with a 2 year warranty and they better HONOR it............PERIOD.........if ya need help I and Imagine others here will have no problem helping you ADVERTISE who is not HONORING their warranties!

GOOD LUCK.....

twharton · Post by **twharton** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:52 pm

SCOOTER SOLDIER is right.

My issue was with a GENERAC natural gas whole house standby generator installed 6 weeks before a hurricane hit (Ivan, 9/16/04) and my area was without power 13 days.

It seems the stator was bad and they wanted me to pay shipping back to MI to fix. Anyway....letters to BBB, Interstate Commerce Commission, posts to sites they advertise on, (Weather.com)....yeah they replaced it. Don't give up!!!!!!!

deserthealer · Post by **deserthealer** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:10 pm

thanks for all your imput. The scooter seemed to be running just fine. there was never any smoke. I did not check the oil after it broke down. I also never did any of my own maintenance. The dealer did all of it. When I spoke to the dealer yesterday they told me that it was my fault for not checking the oil every other time I fill up. I had them change the oil about a month ago and have put on about 700 miles since.

SCOOTER SOLDIER · Post by **SCOOTER SOLDIER** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:34 pm

" When I spoke to the dealer yesterday they told me that it was my fault for not checking the oil every other time I fill up. "

***That is LAME.........Did you have the DEALER POINT out to you in the warranty where it specifically states to check the oil "EVERY OTHER TIME WHEN YOU FILL UP" or the Warranty is void? There is a Request on page 15 of your manual..a pre-ride inspection where it requests to "PLEASE CHECK" the following items...etc......and nowhere that I have found does it state the warranty is voided for not doing it.....if you were doing oil changes yourself and left the drain bolt loose then you would not have my support on this issue..but you had the dealer do the work and they are trying to weasel out of doing what is right based on your information...everyone is going to know who they are soon if they do not step up and take care of the customer on this one.....you should not have to spend one red cent or be inconvenianced AT ALL.......my opinion of course..

What is the NAME OF THIS DEALER.......ADDRESS.....PHONE NUMBER......THE NAMES OF THE OWNERS and OR TECHNICIANS/EMPLOYEES you spoke with??

Start DOCUMENTING EVERY CONVERSATION,DATES,TIMES etc......send all that information Directly to Genuine Scooter in an email and send them a LINK to this thread.......Demand they take action immediately and HONOR the warranty....if they do not..........its GO TIME!

I have a FEELING that DEALER will be Honoring that warranty one way or the other.......I would also send a link of this Thread to that Dealer in an Email as well..............

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:28 pm

Deserthealer, check with Scoot Over in Tucson to see what they have to say about the warranty. The dealer in Phx has kind of a shady rep. www.goscootover.com

--Keys

deserthealer · Post by **deserthealer** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:09 am

so here's the latest. Today I went and picked up my dead buddy. It's sitting at my house now. I had the oil changed by the dealer 55 days ago. I drive approximately 200 miles a week which would be approx 1500 miles driven since the oil change.

My work order states: "oil was very low, engine is locked up. Removed spark plug damaged. Lack of lubrication off proper lubrication may have damaged piston. Need to disassemble to find out. Recommend keeping engine oil at proper level."

Keys, I called scoot over yesterday and I'm waiting for them to call back. That is where I bought it last year. Awesome people by the way!

They are also stating that I put approx 5,000 miles on the scooter in the last 7 weeks based on the wear of my back tire which was also changed July 19th. Also they say my tire pressure was low.

So supposedly I put 5000 miles on it in 10 months and another 5000 miles in 7 weeks.

This is my only vehicle so it's beyond frustrating.

Thanks again for any input.

Anyone know who the best person to contact at Genuine?

scullyfu · Post by **scullyfu** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:26 am

deserthealer wrote:Anyone know who the best person to contact at Genuine?

Philip McCaleb
President
Genuine Scooter Company

>Brett Ratner
>Genuine Scooters Dealer Development
>877.MY.STELLA

vitaminC · Post by **vitaminC** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:10 pm

deserthealer wrote: They are also stating that I put approx 5,000 miles on the scooter in the last 7 weeks based on the wear of my back tire which was also changed July 19th. Also they say my tire pressure was low.

So supposedly I put 5000 miles on it in 10 months and another 5000 miles in 7 weeks.

This is definitely BS. If you've been having it serviced regularly, or at least keeping some sort of records yourself, it should be easy to show that you did not put on 5k miles in 7 weeks. Even Keys would be hard pressed to rack up that kind of mileage!

And really, even if you did put on that many miles, what does it matter? It is a 2 year, unlimited mileage warranty!

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:40 pm

so here's the latest. Today I went and picked up my dead buddy. It's sitting at my house now. I had the oil changed by the dealer 55 days ago. I drive approximately 200 miles a week which would be approx 1500 miles driven since the oil change.

When did you personally last check your oil level?

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:27 pm

I realize that most people might think this a little excessive, since most people riding today never had to deal with old British motorcycles and cars, but I check my oil every other time I ride it. Even just to the store. Older motorcycles tended to "mark their spot" with oil...even some older cars, thereby requiring regular oil checks. Since most manufacturers have done away with that issue, people anymore seem to treat their vehicles like appliances...ya open the door and the light comes on! You know...like, when was the last time you had to service your stove? Vehicles have always been more personal to me than, say, my toaster, so I spend a little more time on them.

Bottom line? When it comes to vehicles, complacency can be dangerous. Check your oil regularly...even if you don't think you should have to. Check your tire air pressure regularly, even if you only check it once every two years on your Toyota. DON'T get complacent when riding a two-wheeled vehicle...YOUR life is at stake. Perhaps it's only a mechanical breakdown that happens at home...then it's your paycheck at stake.

Suggested motto: "Check Everything; Ride Happy"...or maybe "Complacency Hurts"...

--Keys

SCOOTER SOLDIER · Post by **SCOOTER SOLDIER** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:44 pm

Any status updates on getting your buddy back on the road deserthealer?

topic2326.html

deserthealer · Post by **deserthealer** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:03 pm

I emailed Mr. McCaleb (president of Genuine) last Thursday morning. I have not heard a response so I emailed again a few minutes ago. So far there's no change in status.

Someone asked the last time I checked the oil. I don't remember. I ocasionally do check it but it's not something I would try to keep in my head.

I hope this doesn't have to get ugly.

I really want to know where fault is. If I have responsibility here I am willing to accept that. But I need answers. The dealer is obviously being defensive since they don't want to accept any culpability. The way they responded about the tires appears suspicious.

SCOOTER SOLDIER · Post by **SCOOTER SOLDIER** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:40 pm

deserthealer

Have you taken the scooter to another dealer yet? I would recommend doing that at this juncture....It does not appear that the Dealer that did your service is going to step and help you out here, and I would not recommend doing business with them ever again based on the representatives posts here and Like you said very suspicious accounting of why things failed etc...

The Tire wear theory and using that as a gauge of mileage instead of proper record keeping is just irresponsible of that dealer in my opinion, I would take it to another dealer that you trust and have them look it over, take pictures of the process etc...... based on what Dave stated it appears that genuine only has one side of the story and a slanted one at that.........

If you take it to another dealer then Genuine will have an independent source for what is wrong and possibly why the engine failed etc......

I hope this has a happy ending for you but it does not appear it will be forthcoming from that dealer that serviced your scooter, I do all my own oil changes etc.......that way I know it is serviced properly with right oil etc..etc.........dont get me wrong their are some good dealers/technicians out their but they are hard to find...........and the basic maintenance on these is not hard to do if you have a place to do it.

Anyway that is my recommendation at this point since Dave and his shop appears to have dismissed you, Very poor customer service in my opinion and when a Grey area exists either the Dealer or Manufacturer should step up and take care of the customer........if they dont then you know where to take your business the next time around and you know who to tell your friends and family NOT to deal with........

hcstrider · Post by **hcstrider** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:48 pm

It sounds like Genuine denied your warrantee claim because you don’t have proof that your Buddy was properly maintained according to their maintenance schedule. From one of the postings on a different thread, I got the impression that you don’t have your receipts for oil changes that show your Buddy’s mileage when the oil changes were performed.

The dealer who did your oil changes does not maintain a service record for their customers and so without that record the dealer made a guess about the mileage since your last oil change based upon the wear of your tire and it is the dealer’s guesstimate mileage that Genuine is basing its denial of your warrantee claim. Genuine is saying that you traveled too many miles between oil changes and this invalidated your warrantee.

I wouldn’t get side tracked by the discussion about how frequently you checked your oil level because that is not what this argument is about. Sure it is important to check the oil level but how frequently you checked your oil is not germane to your warrantee dispute. To get Genuine to honor your warrantee you need to provide some sort of proof that your Buddy was maintained according to the maintenance schedule, i.e. proof of the mileage when the oil changes were done. Unfortunately without documentation that shows that you followed the maintenance schedule you are in a weak position to file a warrantee claim.

ryder1 · Post by **ryder1** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:00 am

Did the oil light come on at any time?

Keys · Post by **Keys** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:08 am

Um, my '06 125 Buddy doesn't HAVE an oil light...

--Keys

Leeroy Jenkins · Post by **Leeroy Jenkins** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:38 pm

how does one prove they changed thier oil at specific milages?

Just keep a record "Miles, Service perfromed, date, materials used" ?

JeremyZ · Post by **JeremyZ** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:03 pm

The oil light is only on Buddy 50s, to let you know you're running out of two stroke oil.

This is a bad situation. However, I would try to make the bad dealer deal with it, then never patronize them again.

SCOOTER SOLDIER · Post by **SCOOTER SOLDIER** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:26 pm

I concur Jeremy, I am not impressed with the Dealers accounting of events especially considering that dealer could not answer some very basic questions in reference to OIL BURN or USAGE......

The Customer states they had about 1500 miles on the scooter from the last oil change, the Dealer is stating the scooter has over 5000 miles based on tire wear.

If everyone will turn to page 43 of the Buddy manual you will see a periodic maintenance Record, there are 3 blocks to fill out, actual mile,DATE,-----DEALER SIGN.----!!!!!NOT customer SIGN. DEALER SIGN!! A good dealer when setting up appointments would remind customers to bring in their manuals if they do not keep them on the scooter so they can properly document the service.......how hard is that I ask you?

I misquoted the Miles to oil change, it is 1000 miles not 2000 per the manual and had the information been documented properly we would have the facts and the customer would probable be riding his scooter today.

I find it hard to believe that a scooter with around 10000 miles burned or consumed over 50% of the oil the dealer serviced it with and the dealer stated there are no oil leaks so it would appear to me there was or is another problem worth researching and the Dealer should not have just submitted its findings of Mileage based on TIRE WEAR to GENUINE for a Decision on the warranty if that in fact is what happened..

If the Owner was negligent then I think he should have to pay, but at this point I am siding with the scooter owner for no other reason than the Dealer could not answer a few basic questions and apparently did not properly document the service performed on the scooter.

When you take your car into grease monkey or the dealer I believe they document and record and even stick little stickers in your manual and on the car somewhere telling you when the next service is due and documenting the mileage......why this small task eludes that dealer is beyond me.

The Customer paid for a service and I believe even paid for new tires at that dealer.....I believe the customers accounting of actual mileage is probably more accurate than the Dealers, the customer apparently cared about the scooter to bring it to them for service, tires etc....and in my opinion is not be given very good customer service at this juncture.....hopefully someone at Genuine Scooter will do the right thing on this issue and hopefully take a close look at who they hand out reseller privileges too if they cant even take the time to document service properly.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:42 pm

Leeroy Jenkins wrote:how does one prove they changed thier oil at specific milages?

Just keep a record "Miles, Service perfromed, date, materials used" ?

If you're doing it yourself, yes, plus receipts for oil and filters.

I'm not sure how it works legally, but in practice the initial burden of proof here is on the owner. Because the dealer is making some far-fetched claims about usage and maintenance, having any records to back that up would help.

When it comes down to it, if something like this should occur, having thorough documentation of all your service and maintenance will be worth the trouble. May even be worth it to snap a digital pic of the odometer and scoot with oil filter off or some such thing.

poop colored buddy · Post by **poop colored buddy** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:46 pm

EEEK! this is horrible. makes me paranoid. how much is a new motor anyhow?

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:57 pm

poop colored buddy wrote:EEEK! this is horrible. makes me paranoid. how much is a new motor anyhow?

I don't think anyone 'round here has had to replace a whole engine yet. Anything this severe would be under warranty and I think even the first Buddy sold is still covered. Even then, if it was a warranty issue, chances are they'd replace the scoot rather than swap in a new engine.

BlueMark · Post by **BlueMark** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:42 am

ericalm wrote:Even then, if it was a warranty issue, chances are they'd replace the scoot rather than swap in a new engine.

Likely. When Genuine was unable to provide the parts needed to repair my Blur engine they ended up replacing the entire scooter. I have no idea why, we would have been happy with a new motor.

-Mark