Buying Used - What to check for

lonerockz · Post by **lonerockz** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:26 am

So I'm looking at buying a used 2008 Buddy 50. What are some common failings that I should check for People here seem pretty satisfied, which is why I am considering it. But I do wonder if there are specific things I should look for. Its going right into winter storage after I buy it, so I need to check it out thoroughly on the test drive.

Thanks!

Steve

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:40 pm

If I were gonna buy a used 08 I'd check how many miles are on it, if the person has kept up with the servicing, if everything works, and if they have the all the paper work to go with it (title, ect.) Buddies are good scoots but just like any vehicle they must be properly looked after. No sense buying it if it doesn't run unless you WANT the project of getting it in working order. Check to see if the tires don't wobble and the fluids too. Ask if you can test ride it. If your a taller person say 6'4'' with size 14 shoe I would look at something else for comfort. The ergonomics on Buddies tend to be perfect for the small to regular sized person. Go to a dealer and sit on one to see if your comfortable on it. How much are you willing to spend? If it's $1600. or more I'm sure you could get a newer model, used, for that price. You said in your post that it's going into storage for the winter, why not wait, save money during the winter and get something in the spring. 50cc doesn't go as fast as a 125 or a 150, and although it depends what you are using the scoot for, it's nice to know that if you want the extra horse power it's there if you want to go faster than 35 mph. If it's a case of not having a motorcycle license, why not get one cos the same principles of riding a 50 is the same as a 900cc the only difference is how fast your going. These are all things to consider when purchasing a new scoot, motorcycle or any vehicle for that matter... Anyways, I hope this help you.

Hwarang · Post by **Hwarang** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:45 pm

- look for replaced body panels that imply an accident.
- look for scuffs on the ends of the handlebars, brake levers, front case, etc that would imply it got tipped.
- feel the brake levers. are they tense? there should be a little play but not too much
- look at the wheels. are the rims coated in brake dust?
- ask about the owner's oil changes. gear oil too.
- ask how he winterized it. don't hint at what you expect. make him walk you through the steps.
- peek at the VIN stickers. are they there? have they been replaced? (sign of theft)
- look at the ignition.
- check the battery. make him pull off the compartment cover. check the 'trodes for corrosion. some is natural. lots is bad.
-insist that he does not warm it up before you bring it over. start it cold. does the battery sound lively? does the engine take right away?
- look at the wheels. is there tread? is the rubber dry and cracked?
- look at any aftermarket mods. are they installed correctly? jimmy rigged stuff makes me run fast, its a great red flag.
- check the mileage against the year of the vehicle. is it absurdly low?

good luck!

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:53 pm

I think Hwarang typed it much better than I did but the principals are the same.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:52 pm

Hwarang wrote:- ask about the owner's oil changes. gear oil too.

You skip the question about oil changes (but not gear oil) on a Buddy 50

lonerockz · Post by **lonerockz** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:59 pm

Thanks for the advice folks!

Drum Pro, yeah I need the 50cc for moped plates to park downtown in free bike parking. I'm not tall so no worries on the size. I'm heavy though so speed will be an issue, but its parkway most of my trip so limit is 25. I ride a motorcycle when I want to go quick, this is just for the commute.

They only want $750 for the scoot, so I can do a lot of work and still make out ok. Replacing tires, batteries and regular maintenance is just fine, but I want it to work when I need it.

Hwarang, thanks for that list, that's a good list to have. I know the battery needs replacing, but she says it kicks right over. I will test ride it before I buy. It has around 1200 miles, and its in a small town, so that seems about right for a 3-4 year old weekly rider for short trips (7-8 month season up here in the north).

Thanks again,

Steve

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:22 pm

AND if it runs well and you are putting it in storage for winter make SURE to stabilize the gas tank fuel with your favorite stabilizer ( startron sta-bil etc). And if the battery is okay pull it to be charged. If not you may just plan on a new battery in the spring.

Hwarang · Post by **Hwarang** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:29 pm

I don't even know what "owner's oil changes" are! LOL sorry ... was posting in a hurry. Didn't notice that he said "buddy 50" ... blergh!

Hwarang · Post by **Hwarang** » Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:40 pm

also the OP is from minneapolis. cool! /wave

(wanna buy a pink buddy 125?)

lonerockz · Post by **lonerockz** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:20 am

Hwarang, only if it has moped plates

SYMbionic Duo · Post by **SYMbionic Duo** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:27 am

And they DO check, in MPLS.

lonerockz · Post by **lonerockz** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:15 am

Sounds like she didn't take great care of it last winter (didn't pull the battery at least). So I'm thinking that the carbs may need cleaning. Still for $750 I guess I can clean the carbs.

Any other things to look for if it was just left to sit last winter?

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:27 am

It sounds like your trying to talk yourself into buying this scoot. If something is too good to be true then most likely it is. Did you check the breaks and the throttle to see if they were in working order? It's a good price but you typed it yourself that she didn't take good care of this scoot. It's your money and all but I would pass on this one and get a better one in the spring....

Hwarang · Post by **Hwarang** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:44 pm

Drum Pro wrote:It sounds like your trying to talk yourself into buying this scoot. If something is too good to be true then most likely it is. Did you check the breaks and the throttle to see if they were in working order? It's a good price but you typed it yourself that she didn't take good care of this scoot. It's your money and all but I would pass on this one and get a better one in the spring....

Yep, talk yourself OUT of it. No matter how much you want the toy. Winter is upon us, so you have time to keep an eye on the local market and snap up a great scoot that has been well maintained.

Like a pink '09 buddy 125, properly winterized, never tipped or dumped, with only 2000 miles on it. /ahem.

lonerockz · Post by **lonerockz** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:11 pm

Well I went to look at it and it looks beautiful. Stored in a shed, nice and shiny clean. But... it doesn't run for more than a few minutes. The battery is clearly gone. When on a charger it will charge enough to get it started with the kicker, but then after a minute or so it will die. It dies even with the bike running and the charger on the battery. These things have an alternator right? So needless to say I'm still in the hunt.

Hwarang, you get a moped plate on that 125 and I'll come knocking.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:15 pm

lonerockz wrote:Well I went to look at it and it looks beautiful. Stored in a shed, nice and shiny clean. But... it doesn't run for more than a few minutes. The battery is clearly gone. When on a charger it will charge enough to get it started with the kicker, but then after a minute or so it will die. It dies even with the bike running and the charger on the battery. These things have an alternator right? So needless to say I'm still in the hunt.

When you say it "dies", do you mean the battery or the engine? Because if it's just the battery failing to hold a charge, that's an easy and inexpensive fix: replace the battery. If the bike has been sitting unused, I'd pretty much assume that's necessary.

If it's the engine that won't stay running, that's nothing to do with the battery. The battery plays no role whatsoever in keeping the engine running. Like a standard automobile, it gets all of its electrical power from the gas engine, and uses the battery for one thing only: starting it.

So if it won't stay running, it could be something serious or (in theory) something equally simple. But if the engine starts OK on the charger, and runs OK once you get it started... I'm not telling you to buy it, but I'd set aside the "trouble getting started" issue as Solved and then evaluate the rest of the bike.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:03 pm

make sure it has tires!

supermach · Post by **supermach** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:19 pm

lonerockz wrote:So I'm looking at buying a used 2008 Buddy 50. What are some common failings that I should check for People here seem pretty satisfied, which is why I am considering it. But I do wonder if there are specific things I should look for. Its going right into winter storage after I buy it, so I need to check it out thoroughly on the test drive.

Thanks!

Steve

Servicing is a big thing on a scooter. Because ALOUT of people don't know and would this drive the thing. I was looking on craigslist and someone was selling a vino 125 and he this had a oil change so it's ready to go... If someone say it like that then he never does it. A oil change on a scooter is like 10.00 the most so it's not a big deal.

+ paper work.

supermach · Post by **supermach** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:20 pm

JHScoot wrote:make sure it has tires!

That this remined me. If you look at the tires you can see how hard he used it.

lonerockz · Post by **lonerockz** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:23 pm

TVB, it was hooked up to a battery tender. It would start just fine using the kicker (didn't try the electric start). Keeping it hooked up to the tender it would run for a minute to 30 seconds and then lose RPM till the engine died. Then let it sit for a while on the tender and again you could start it with the kicker. And again after 30 seconds or so it would lose RPM and die.

I'm thinking the charging system on the bike was bad.

So I'm skill looking.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:18 pm

lonerockz wrote:TVB, it was hooked up to a battery tender. It would start just fine using the kicker (didn't try the electric start). Keeping it hooked up to the tender it would run for a minute to 30 seconds and then lose RPM till the engine died. Then let it sit for a while on the tender and again you could start it with the kicker. And again after 30 seconds or so it would lose RPM and die.

I'm thinking the charging system on the bike was bad.

This conclusion doesn't follow from what you just said. The battery and the charger are not involved in keeping the engine running, so if the engine is dying after 30 seconds, there is something completely different causing that. The idle might be set wrong, or the engine needs cleaning, or... I don't know, I don't have experience diagnosing those kinds of problems. But I know it has nothing to do with the battery, and therefore nothing at all to do with the system that charges it.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:25 pm

lonerockz wrote:TVB, it was hooked up to a battery tender. It would start just fine using the kicker (didn't try the electric start). Keeping it hooked up to the tender it would run for a minute to 30 seconds and then lose RPM till the engine died. Then let it sit for a while on the tender and again you could start it with the kicker. And again after 30 seconds or so it would lose RPM and die.

I'm thinking the charging system on the bike was bad.

So I'm skill looking.

The stalling sounds more like a carb/choke adjustment. That doesn't mean the scooter could not also have a weak battery, but the stalling is a different issue.

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:51 pm

what about the spark plug(s)? Could that be it?

lonerockz · Post by **lonerockz** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:23 am

Ok, I'm no master mechanic but I do know you need electricity to run an engine. The spark plug sparks, and the fuel explodes. The spark is electric. So the statement of "battery and the charger are not involved in keeping the engine running" assumes that the engine is generating the necessary electricity. The Buddy's have a stator for generating electricity while the bike is running. Although the shop manual seems to call it an A.C flywheel magneto. If however the stator was not working the battery will supply the electricity that you need. Well until the battery dies. It is also possible that it is the voltage regulator.

If it were the carbs, choke, etc. it would have run roughly. That was not the case, it purred like a kitten. Ran much better than I expected actually. Until it got to the point where it lost rpms and died. I tired giving it more gas as it was dying, and it had no effect. With a bad choke/dirty carbs more fuel would have had an effect.

It's definitely electrical. Now that I've found the shop manual I may drive back with my voltage meter and see if I can figure it out.

BTW, I do all my own maintenance on my motorcycle. Valve checks, spark plugs, oil changes, etc. There is usually a lot of swearing involved, but the motorcycle runs like a top. I have 40,000 miles on that, and quite a few mods (HID lights, Aux Fuel tank, etc.). So fixing a little electrical issue shouldn't be that bad. Course the owner would have to be willing to discount further!

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:58 am

lonerockz wrote:If it were the carbs, choke, etc. it would have run roughly. That was not the case, it purred like a kitten. Ran much better than I expected actually. Until it got to the point where it lost rpms and died. I tired giving it more gas as it was dying, and it had no effect. With a bad choke/dirty carbs more fuel would have had an effect.

It's definitely electrical. Now that I've found the shop manual I may drive back with my voltage meter and see if I can figure it out.

The thing is, you have spark, or it would not run at all. And the fact that for a period it "purrs like a kitten" as you say, shows it has plenty of spark. What it sounds like is that when the auto choke turns off your mixture is affected and it stalls out. And the fact that giving it gas has no effect also points to clogged jets, a dirty carb, poorly adjusted carb, or something else fuel delivery/fuel mixture related.

Buddy's will run with out a battery (though it is not advised). The battery charging issue I think is a separate issue from the stalling.

Personally I think this just sounds like a case of a scooter that has sat idle for a long time and has the usual issues that result from that.

lonerockz · Post by **lonerockz** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:39 am

Skootz, when you say it stalls out when the auto choke cuts off, what should that sound like? The only thing I have with a choke is my snow blower, and when that dies because of the choke there is a lot of coughing and sputtering. This doesn't do that it just loses RPM and slowly winds down. Course my snow blower has a bigger engine and I have no experience with engines this small.

Is the auto choke on some kind of timer, or does it shutoff at some kind of temp? I ask because we were able to restart it about 5 minutes after it died the first time, and the engine was probably still warm.

On a healthy scoot does the headlight stay on without the engine running but the key in the on position? Cause when it died the headlight was off. While the scoot was running it did light up.

I'm thinking a good & easy test to see if I'm right is to start it up and pull the negative battery lead. If it dies instantly then its the electrical. If it continues to run then its fuel/air. Come to think of it if the battery is disconnected and it wont run at all that would tell me if its the electrical system right? She mentioned that the scoot wouldn't kick start unless the battery had some charge.

Steve

PS thanks everyone for chiming in on this. One of the reasons I want a Buddy is because it has a great forum. At this point I want to buy the scoot just to fix it and see who was right!

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:04 pm

The headlight is powered entirely by the engine, so if it lights, the engine is producing current (and therefore charging the battery if that's possible). It's getting spark from there, and if it weren't it'd be getting it from the battery tender that was hooked up.

I'm skeptical about the owner's report that the kickstarter only works when the battery has a charge, because I've heard of people kickstarting and riding a Buddy without a battery at all.

lonerockz · Post by **lonerockz** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:16 pm

TVB, The tender was a trickle charger and might not actually provide enough juice to give spark. Might very well have the volts, but not the amps. It was really cheap and junky looking.

When you say "I'm skeptical about the owner's report that the kickstarter only works when the battery has a charge, because I've heard of people kickstarting and riding a Buddy without a battery at all." you are making the assumption that the stator/regulator is working. If however the stator was not working the bike would not start without the battery. Which is why I think its not a fuel/air problem, but an electrical one.

So assuming she is not mistaken and I heard her correctly: the bike does not start without a battery even when kicking it. So what are the problems that could cause this? I can only think of the stator & regulator. I figure the CDI must be good because the bike will run when it has a battery.

Trouble shooting this would be a lot easier if she didn't live 70 miles from me...

Steve

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:31 pm

If the stator was kaput your scooter would not run at all. You have spark, the scooter runs fine (albeit temperamentally), therefore the stator is working.

You can kick start and run a carbureted Buddy with a dead battery. You can even run a Buddy with no battery at all. Battery charge is not related to the stalling issue.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:28 pm

lonerockz wrote:...you are making the assumption that the stator/regulator is working.

I'm inferring it from the fact that the headlight came on when the engine was running. That means the engine was generating electricity.

Southerner · Post by **Southerner** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:05 pm

Naturally, I'm just guessing myself, but from what you have said, it's probably simply related to the fact that it has been sitting up for so long. The mileage seems so little that nothing much should have gone wrong with it unless seriously abused, which you could probably tell.

It could be electrical, it could be gunk in the fuel system. You could probably run a good cleaning additive and clear it out.

If you think it's still a good price, you could ask if a competent scoot mech could look it over for you to be sure. Assuming you don't do all your own maintenance, you could let whoever this is simply fix what may possibly be some very inexpensive problems.

A new one runs 2 grand plus prep, freight, taxes, etc. Even if the fix runs a few hundred, it's still pretty cheap.

Modern Buddy

Buying Used - What to check for

Buying Used - What to check for

Re: Buying Used - What to check for