Winter with my 170i

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:43 pm

Sadly, the snow and ice is on its way and so it is nearly time to put the scooter away for a little bit. So...

Outside of a battery tender and a bottle of seafoam, is there anything you knowledgeable folks would do to winterize a 170i?

synaps3 · Post by **synaps3** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:02 pm

There's some good info in this thread: topic20291.html

If you use the search feature, there are a whole bunch of threads on it. I think Lil Buddy outlined the procedure well in the linked thread:

Lil Buddy wrote:My winter storage routine goes like this:
Ride to the gas station
Fill tank
Add Seafoam
Check air pressure in tires and add as needed
Ride home (the long way to get the Seafoam through all of the vital parts)
Park on center stand
Plug in Battery Tender Jr.

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:19 pm

Thanks, synaps3. I've seen all sorts of threads, but I was wondering if there was anything extra I needed to do because of the fuel injection. I imagine there isn't, but I'd rather not find out the hard way that I was wrong about that. I don't think there are any threads about my specific question. That's probably because this is the first winter that the 170i has been around.

2wheelNsanity · Post by **2wheelNsanity** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:57 am

I don't know your location but I plan to ride my 170i all winter

barring any major snow, in which I don't even drive my car in it. Usually the road crews here are good at getting the roads cleared so I might have to skip a day or two here and there. I do plan on getting some good snow tires in the next couple of weeks cuz the Primas that came on it are horrible in the wet

. Besides its already gotten down to 28degrees F

and my makeshift winter gear worked out fine

. So then I look forward to the challenge.

Every day I scoot the bigger my smile gets, Tee hee.

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:37 pm

Hey, Jonlink and 2wheel, I think I remember seeing a post somewhere about one of or maybe both of you talking about oil changes... ?

I just wanted to know what oil filter I need to use, and what oil would be best for the first service oil change on my 170i?

Any input from anyone else would be much appreciated!

2wheelNsanity · Post by **2wheelNsanity** » Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:26 am

I got mine from ScooterWorks. http://www.scooterworks.com/Oil-Filter- ... 8C701.aspx

Hope that helps

As far as oil I used Rotel 15w40 which is a hard weight to find. The local motorcycle mechanic said for me to switch to full synthetic around 1000miles which is soon so I'm going to use Motul synthetic 10w40 and Lucas synthetic 75w140 gear oil. I'll let you know how it goes.

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:35 am

2wheelNsanity wrote:I got mine from ScooterWorks. http://www.scooterworks.com/Oil-Filter- ... 8C701.aspx

Hope that helps
As far as oil I used Rotel 15w40 which is a hard weight to find. The local motorcycle mechanic said for me to switch to full synthetic around 1000miles which is soon so I'm going to use Motul synthetic 10w40 and Lucas synthetic 75w140 gear oil. I'll let you know how it goes.

Thank you! I wasn't sure if it was the same oil filter since I remember reading something about the "new design" for the 170i in one of the reviews... but if you say so, and it's working for you, then I guess that would mean it should work for me!

2wheelNsanity · Post by **2wheelNsanity** » Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:26 pm

Just to make double sure You should call scooterworks and ask if it is a direct replacement. Good luck

hal888 · Post by **hal888** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:55 pm

AWinn6889 wrote:
2wheelNsanity wrote:I got mine from ScooterWorks. http://www.scooterworks.com/Oil-Filter- ... 8C701.aspx

Hope that helps
As far as oil I used Rotel 15w40 which is a hard weight to find. The local motorcycle mechanic said for me to switch to full synthetic around 1000miles which is soon so I'm going to use Motul synthetic 10w40 and Lucas synthetic 75w140 gear oil. I'll let you know how it goes.
Thank you! I wasn't sure if it was the same oil filter since I remember reading something about the "new design" for the 170i in one of the reviews... but if you say so, and it's working for you, then I guess that would mean it should work for me!

This actually brings up another question about gear oil for the 170i. I'm approaching 1,500 miles on my scooter, and realized the gear oil hasn't been changed. My manual says to use a straight SAE 140 grade. This is hard to find, but my local NAPA special ordered it for me. Does it matter?

2wheelNsanity · Post by **2wheelNsanity** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:48 pm

Thats a good question. I asked it in another thread and the responses were "not really". It seems most use 75w140 and if you looka at vidds on youtube concerning changing the gear oil they to use 75w140. So I guess the best thing to do is contact Genuine directly , I got their info from the website:

Genuine Scooters
5400 N. Damen Ave.
Chicago, IL 60625
email: info (@) genuinescooters.com

Good luck and let us know what htey say.

hal888 · Post by **hal888** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:54 pm

Ok. Thanks!

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:20 pm

Just wanted to throw this out there, has anyone used oil other than Rotella 15w40 in their bikes? If so, what are you using?
I want to make sure I get some good stuff in there and see who feels what is best...

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:37 am

I'm gonna take my chance and look like an idiot.

Manual says 3000 kilometers... according to the Italian boyfriend thats around 2000 miles for my next oil changes, so I hadn't planned on 1500 miles, especially since I'm racking the miles faster than most riders.

I just hit 1500, should I really have changed the oils by now? Had my first service at 300miles, and my dealer told me every 2000 after that. Is there something I'm missing?

2wheelNsanity · Post by **2wheelNsanity** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:28 am

My motorcycle friend who has been a mechanic for 40years gave me a schedual to follow. Here it is:
1st oil change (dino oil) @ 100 miles
2nd oil change (dino oil) and 1st gear oil (dino oil) @ 500 miles
3rd oil change (synthetic: Mutol 7100 10W40) and 2nd gear oil (synthetic: Lucas 75W140) @ 1000 miles.

Then change both every 2000 miles.

He says the dino oil helps the motor break in better. I have followed this and just did my 1000 mile change and wow the synthetic stuff really works. Engine idle and acceleration is smother and more powerfull. I was sceptic but now I believe

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:28 am

At the risk of sounding too blunt: if you don't know enough about different types of oil to form a belief on, then follow the manufacturer's guidelines.

Oil is the religion of the PTW world: everyone has a belief, it usually sounds insane to anyone who doesn't have the same belief, people will argue until their head turns blue for their view even (especially) if they don't understand it, and - this is the key point here - no one will ever change the mind of anyone else about oil. EVER.

Few things in life come with an instruction manual. Your Buddy does, so do what it says... unless you're an oil extremist. And if you are... keep it to yourself because honestly, no one cares.

For the winterizing stuff... most Buddies have a plastic fuel tank, so leaving the tank full doesn't matter as much (you leave a metal tank full so that it can't rust). Other than that, I tend to follow these guidelines.

2wheelNsanity · Post by **2wheelNsanity** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:06 pm

It's worked for me so far, minus the blunder of an accidental gear oil overfill.
As far as the manual goes, I couldn't find 140SAE gear oil or 15w40 in a pure synthetic.

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:25 pm

Common 15w40 Synthetics are Shell Rotella T6, Mobile One Turbo Diesel, Motul as well as others.

140SAE Gear oil is pretty common in truck differentials, so it's usually on the shelf with the rest of the gear oils.

On the winterizing... The Buddy 170i is a lot easier to deal with than the Buddy. Change the oil (with whatever, lol), put some fuel stabilizer in the tank, hook it up to a trickle charger, plug any holes that are exposed to nesting critters and cover it up. Done.

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:34 pm

...I didn't get a manual with mine.
I'm the one that had to deal with a sheisty (and the only) Genuine dealer in town. I don't doubt that they took it out with the intention to SELL IT TO ME later... as if they didn't rip me off enough.

I know plenty about winterizing vehicles, from 125cc dirtbikes to fuel injected cvt atvs, to Honda Valkyries, so that's not a problem. I just want to make sure that I'm putting the proper oil in there. I just feel better having more than one person tell me what they think is right.

So a non-synthetic 15W40 is what I'm looking for then... ?

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:24 pm

AWinn6889 wrote:...I didn't get a manual with mine...

Bet you a dollar that 99% of the 170i manual is identical to one found here.

hal888 · Post by **hal888** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:32 pm

Syd wrote:
AWinn6889 wrote:...I didn't get a manual with mine...
Bet you a dollar that 99% of the 170i manual is identical to one found here.

Almost certain oil / lube recommendations are the same for 150 and 170i. I'll check when I get home.

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:03 pm

hal888 wrote:
Syd wrote:
AWinn6889 wrote:...I didn't get a manual with mine...
Bet you a dollar that 99% of the 170i manual is identical to one found here.
Almost certain oil / lube recommendations are the same for 150 and 170i. I'll check when I get home.

90% sure my manual wasn't specific for the 170i. It was the generic Buddy manual. I was under the impression that there wasn't a 170-specific manual.

2wheelNsanity wrote:My motorcycle friend who has been a mechanic for 40years gave me a schedual to follow. Here it is:
1st oil change (dino oil) @ 100 miles
2nd oil change (dino oil) and 1st gear oil (dino oil) @ 500 miles
3rd oil change (synthetic: Mutol 7100 10W40) and 2nd gear oil (synthetic: Lucas 75W140) @ 1000 miles.

Then change both every 2000 miles.

He says the dino oil helps the motor break in better. I have followed this and just did my 1000 mile change and wow the synthetic stuff really works. Engine idle and acceleration is smother and more powerfull. I was sceptic but now I believe

That's more oil changes than it may need. Not sure about the oil types, but I KNOW for CERTAIN you didn't need your first oil change/service before 300... that's 300-500 miles, by the manual. I think maybe your mechanic is very happy with the changes.

Now, I don't have a clue whether more oil changes than you need would help you, hurt you, or do nothing but waste a little money... I'm definitely not somebody to ask about that. My only concern would be messing with the scoot so much while it's being broken in. But again, could be totally harmless.

hal888 · Post by **hal888** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:42 am

My gb manual comes with information for the buddy 50, 125, 150, and 170.

That said, the information is nearly identical across the models, with a few exceptions for engine size, weight, etc.

Engine oil: sae15w40 - 0.9 Liters
Spark plug- C7RHSA
Gear oil- sae140

2wheelNsanity · Post by **2wheelNsanity** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:07 am

Make sure you use only 90cc or ml of gear oil. Expert advice from someone who overfilled by only 20cc's

and got oil all over the back wheel,

tee hee

Good luck.

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:20 am

There are some differences between the 150 and the 170i. I don't remmeber any of it seeming incredibly important. Spark plugs and fuel capacity are the first two that I can think of off the top of my head. The lack of kick-start being another obvious one.

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:24 am

...and uh, lack of carburetor, and everything that comes along with it

Anyway, I just needed to know about the oil, and thank you for the link to the manual, I'm sure there's a couple more things different about the 170i than you might think, but I'll figure it out. NBD.

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:31 am

AWinn6889 wrote:...and uh, lack of carburetor, and everything that comes along with it

Anyway, I just needed to know about the oil, and thank you for the link to the manual, I'm sure there's a couple more things different about the 170i than you might think, but I'll figure it out. NBD.

Use synthetic.

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:47 am

Lostmycage wrote:
AWinn6889 wrote:...and uh, lack of carburetor, and everything that comes along with it

Anyway, I just needed to know about the oil, and thank you for the link to the manual, I'm sure there's a couple more things different about the 170i than you might think, but I'll figure it out. NBD.
Use synthetic.

For the first oil change on it? Are you sure?
I've seen on many FI motorcycles that they suggest using real oil for the first one or two changes...

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:04 am

AWinn6889 wrote:
Lostmycage wrote:
AWinn6889 wrote:...and uh, lack of carburetor, and everything that comes along with it

Anyway, I just needed to know about the oil, and thank you for the link to the manual, I'm sure there's a couple more things different about the 170i than you might think, but I'll figure it out. NBD.
Use synthetic.
For the first oil change on it? Are you sure?
I've seen on many FI motorcycles that they suggest using real oil for the first one or two changes...

There are certain oil change regiments that racers and engine developers use. Those sometimes get passed on to the average owner and are misconstrued as the correct method.

As long as you let the "break-in" oil work for the specified time, then the first oil change can be synthetic with no repercussions.

If you change the oil at 100 miles and then again at 500 miles (a popular race engine service interval) then you absolutely want to make the first few changes with real oil.

If you let the engine operate within normal parameters until the specified first oil change, then you should use synthetic unless you plan on going longer than the recommended second oil change.

The point behind synthetics is that they are harder to break down into the elements that can wear at the engine. The Buddy is more resistant to the break-in impurities (metal shavings and the like) than other GY6 (the engine type that PGO bases the Buddy's engine off of) because it has a pretty effective filter that will collect those foreign objects.

If you plan to change the oil 2-3 times by the time you 1,000 miles, then use non-synthetic oil (to save money). Using synthetic for the first few might not be ideal or optimal for peak performance (and again, this requires very specific knowledge of the engine's design and race level tolerances and a plan on how the engine will be broken in, including very specific run-in wear cycles) but it won't hurt everyday performance or reliability.

Sorry for being excessively wordy, but oil is a tricky subject (as I referred to in my analogy above). For ease of mind, follow the recommended change cycles using synthetic oil and if you want to do your own research and formulate your own opinions, you can alter that down the road.

A good primer is POCPhil's explanation found in the MB FAQ section.

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:01 pm

Lostmycage wrote:
AWinn6889 wrote:
Lostmycage wrote: Use synthetic.
For the first oil change on it? Are you sure?
I've seen on many FI motorcycles that they suggest using real oil for the first one or two changes...
There are certain oil change regiments that racers and engine developers use. Those sometimes get passed on to the average owner and are misconstrued as the correct method.

As long as you let the "break-in" oil work for the specified time, then the first oil change can be synthetic with no repercussions.

If you change the oil at 100 miles and then again at 500 miles (a popular race engine service interval) then you absolutely want to make the first few changes with real oil.

If you let the engine operate within normal parameters until the specified first oil change, then you should use synthetic unless you plan on going longer than the recommended second oil change.

The point behind synthetics is that they are harder to break down into the elements that can wear at the engine. The Buddy is more resistant to the break-in impurities (metal shavings and the like) than other GY6 (the engine type that PGO bases the Buddy's engine off of) because it has a pretty effective filter that will collect those foreign objects.

If you plan to change the oil 2-3 times by the time you 1,000 miles, then use non-synthetic oil (to save money). Using synthetic for the first few might not be ideal or optimal for peak performance (and again, this requires very specific knowledge of the engine's design and race level tolerances and a plan on how the engine will be broken in, including very specific run-in wear cycles) but it won't hurt everyday performance or reliability.

Sorry for being excessively wordy, but oil is a tricky subject (as I referred to in my analogy above). For ease of mind, follow the recommended change cycles using synthetic oil and if you want to do your own research and formulate your own opinions, you can alter that down the road.

A good primer is POCPhil's explanation found in the MB FAQ section.

I'm glad you were wordy... this completely explains how and why 2wheel's mechanic gave him the oil change schedule he did. I file this under 'things that make me smarter at the end of the day'.

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:42 am

Glad I could be of help.

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:34 pm

LunaP wrote: I'm glad you were wordy... this completely explains how and why 2wheel's mechanic gave him the oil change schedule he did. I file this under 'things that make me smarter at the end of the day'.

Me too. Now I know what to use. Thanks LostMyCage.