Piaggio Fly 50cc vs. Genuine Buddy 50cc

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:04 pm

Just to clarify for those non-NC folks...a scooter under 50cc in North Carolina is treated the same as a bicycle which is why they have the lovely name "Liquor-cycle" as they can be ridden by someone who has had a driver's license suspended/revoked due to DUI. In other words, you don't even need a driver's license to ride a 49cc scooter.

You can't go wrong with the Honda Metropolitan. Great little scoot; a bit slow off the mark but very easy to handle, decent under-seat storage, and you can add a rear-rack and install a milkcrate. You can also use your Ortliebs by throwing them across the seat because you add gas at the floorboard as opposed to having to lift the seat on the Buddy (it's my only issue with the Buddy).

Sorry to hear you had a miserable experience at the Yammy dealership. I don't get why the salespeople are so jerky when it comes to trying to sell scoots. I've practically sold scoots at my local moto-shop because the sales guys are so clueless. The Zuma is a great little scoot.

Uncle Groucho · Post by **Uncle Groucho** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:15 pm

Just to echo some similar posts, I'd suggest possibly going with a used 50cc, take some time to get familiar with it, get your license and then move up to something bigger.

I too bought a 50cc because I didn't want to go through the hassle and expense of getting a license, tag, and so forth. That was two months ago and I sooo wish I had gone with a bigger engine.

You can still go 35 on a 150cc scoot, but doing WOT on a 50cc when you've got a lot of hills to climb will eat your engine up.

If you do opt for a 50cc, I compared a Kymco People and a Buddy. The Buddy was more fun.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:48 pm

My insurance company is Geico, and they are honestly good folks to work with. But keep in mind that with them, thieft is the biggest worry so if your area has a ton of auto crime that will hit your rate hard.

And, just under $700 isn't bad for a Vespa. Remember that the price won't go up kuch more save for taxes the more expensive you go in their lineup. They do tend to be way cheaper in freight and fees than German or Japanese bikes for some reason. If you have never bought an auto before, I can see where it may seem like a scam, but that's sort of the tax for buying new

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 6:09 pm

Jenetic wrote:
neotrotsky wrote:
As for insurance: I am a 32 year old married male with one ticket. I do get a labor union discount, college grad discount, multi owner policy discount and my bike is quite a bit older, but in total I pay $100 a year for liability with under/un-insured motorist at $25k/$50k.
Would you mind sharing who your insurance company is? That's a great rate. I realize it's dependent on one's own record, location & various discounts but it sounds like a good place to start at least for a quote.

Check out our insurance FAQ, which has some tips for getting rates.

In LA, it's pretty unusual to get full coverage for under $200/year. Quotes can be as high as $800. And it will vary quite a bit by zip code.

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:00 pm

I'm late to the party, but here's what I have to add:

I jumped right onto a 170cc, I knew I wouldn't be happy with just 50ccs for my purposes- but Buddys are fantastic. I can also add that I have a coworker with a Honda Ruckus and he adores it- it's not pretty and doesn't have much storage unless you modify it though.

I also need to stress (this bit me in the butt a little) that I did not realize how much I was going to need to spend on gear until after I bought the scoot and there was no way I could have budgeted for it. Bungees, crash bars (even if you only get a rear or front carry rack), windsheild, helmet, GOOD climate-appropriate armored jacket, gloves, cleaners for your visor/windscreen/scoot, waterproof backpack/duffel/saddle or roll bags for carry space, glove liners, thermal socks, balaclava/facemask/neckgaiter, gps or phone cradle/mount, motorcycle pants or strap on pads... all examples of things you could/should spend money on and they can and will add up from a few to a handful of hundreds. $_$

Being new here I'll warn you that gear is a hot topic (AND TO EVERYBODY ELSE, I AM NOT TRYING TO START THE GRAND DEBATE, SO DON'T!) Some prefer to take the risk of minimal gear, and some prefer to err on the side of caution and wear anywhere from moderate to maximum gear- it's a personal decision and you have to make it for yourself. All I can say is that if you hit the ground, you hit the ground, if you don't hit it hard or do damage you are lucky, and if you do then you will wish you had gear if you didn't (I did- my jeans weren't enough and I ordered knee pads).

However much you decide to wear to protect yourself and keep yourself comfortable will cost you that much more. Being a full time bicyclist, you probably already have some gear, so you are better off than some. But do your research and see how much you think you may spend on gear, so that you can take a sort-of approximate number into account when you budget for your scoot.

You may find yourself wanting to look on CL, or the for sale forum here, for a nice used Buddy or something. The good news about scoots is that a lot of the low-key work is easy to do yourself- oil changes, tire changes, spark plug changes, cable adjustments- the vehicle is small and it makes most everything pretty easy to get to.

When buying, also seriously consider who will be doing the services for you. If it's something you can't do yourself, what shop will you take it to? Do you like the people there? Does anybody on this forum have a good or bad story they can tell you?

As for 50cc's in VA- Our DMV website sucks and I couldnt find anything on there. Ironically, the most helpful information I found is actually on Scoot Richmond's website (whom I trust implicitly by the way). 50cc's do not need tags, title, registration or insurance in VA- anything above does (is the rule of thumb anyway- as their page points out there are some odd in-betweens). BUT if you are driving here, and have your NC DL on you to show them, you should be okay (as long as you aren't driving on a road you shouldn't be or anything). I have no earthly idea about DC.

Jenetic · Post by **Jenetic** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:02 pm

TVB wrote:
Jenetic wrote:Saying "...I find it hard to believe..." is completely different from saying I couldn't believe.
The two phrases are often used to mean the same thing, and given the condescending "Are you nuts?!" tone of your remarks, that's how it read to me.

So you took offense at something that wasn't directed at you and which you've completely misinterpreted?

I put that in quote marks because that was the conversation in my head to myself. I was being honest at my initial reaction. I was not directing it at the op. If I were, I wouldn't have used quotation marks & I would have written ARE YOU NUTS?!

TVB wrote:
Jenetic wrote:Last time I checked, this was a forum for conversation. Both fact & opinion.
It's also about treating people with respect, and I found your remarks insulting. (Hint: When you have to start littering your comments with "no offense" and "with all due respect" disclaimers, that's a warning sign.)

Like when you used it here?

TVB wrote:
Jenetic wrote:It sounds like you're making a LOT of assumptions. I don't know the law in NC....
With all due respect, you're making a lot of assumptions here.

I'm not going to argue with you anymore. It is stupid and pointless. You have misinterpreted my posts and that's unfortunate especially when the purported insults and disrespect weren't even directed at you. But feel free to continue wasting your own time & energy if you must.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:19 pm

Okeh, that's enough of the back & forth bickering. It makes us look like the rest of the Internet and we hold ourselves to a higher standard.

Thanks, Mgmt

Jenetic · Post by **Jenetic** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:21 pm

teabow1 wrote: You see, six months ago I moved from San Francisco to Durham/Raleigh, NC.

So you're used to our ridiculous overhead!

neotrotsky wrote:My insurance company is Geico, and they are honestly good folks to work with.
And, just under $700 isn't bad for a Vespa. Remember that the price won't go up kuch more save for taxes the more expensive you go in their lineup. They do tend to be way cheaper in freight and fees than German or Japanese bikes for some reason. If you have never bought an auto before, I can see where it may seem like a scam, but that's sort of the tax for buying new

Thanks for the insurance info. The $700 is just pdi & freight. It's totally padded even for Vespa relative to what I've seen at other dealers.

ericalm wrote: Check out our insurance FAQ, which has some tips for getting rates.

In LA, it's pretty unusual to get full coverage for under $200/year. Quotes can be as high as $800. And it will vary quite a bit by zip code.

Thanks Eric. I started reading it and will definitely use it as a resource.

Jenetic · Post by **Jenetic** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:22 pm

ericalm wrote:Okeh, that's enough of the back & forth bickering. It makes us look like the rest of the Internet and we hold ourselves to a higher standard.

Thanks, Mgmt

Agreed. And thank you.

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:35 pm

Also for the OP:

You may consider looking at this... hundreds of dollars of free accessories would tip the decision for me...

Genuine Dressed for the Holidays Offer

I understand it's good on certain pre-2010 Genuine scoots... an offer made to move older stock out at dealers, so go check your dealers. Hundreds in free accessories and a 2 year warranty with roadside is a fantastic deal (and this is why I love Genuine).

heatherkay · Post by **heatherkay** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:49 pm

LunaP wrote: Bungees, crash bars (even if you only get a rear or front carry rack), windshield, helmet, GOOD climate-appropriate armored jacket, gloves, cleaners for your visor/windscreen/scoot, waterproof backpack/duffel/saddle or roll bags for carry space, glove liners, thermal socks, balaclava/facemask/neckgaiter, gps or phone cradle/mount, motorcycle pants or strap on pads... all examples of things you could/should spend money on and they can and will add up from a few to a handful of hundreds. $_$

I'd say that some of the things on this list are could/should and some are maybe/might.

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:55 pm

heatherkay wrote:
LunaP wrote: Bungees, crash bars (even if you only get a rear or front carry rack), windshield, helmet, GOOD climate-appropriate armored jacket, gloves, cleaners for your visor/windscreen/scoot, waterproof backpack/duffel/saddle or roll bags for carry space, glove liners, thermal socks, balaclava/facemask/neckgaiter, gps or phone cradle/mount, motorcycle pants or strap on pads... all examples of things you could/should spend money on and they can and will add up from a few to a handful of hundreds. $_$
I'd say that some of the things on this list are could/should and some are maybe/might.

Oh definitely. For example, MOST scooter owners I know don't bother with a gps or mount for it (I do). But it was meant to be a somewhat extensive list of examples of things he/she/the OP could end up choosing to spend money on. My point was just that it's extremely easy to not realize how much gear/money for gear you will end up needing, ESPECIALLY if you ride year-round and have no car. I did it >.<

Roose Hurro · Post by **Roose Hurro** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:05 am

teabow1 wrote:
Roose Hurro wrote:Well, since you have access to a Yamaha dealer, why not check out a C3?

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/produ ... /home.aspx

And here's a review: http://www.justgottascoot.com/yamahac3.htm

Aaand a video review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYLYEg8O674
Thanks! My husband suggested it and I thought the specs are really good but it's really ugly! I'd feel like I'm a delivery guy on that

Ugly is in the eye of the beholder... I think of it as "distinctive". Plus, it seems to fit your desired specs (50cc), and has the benefit of being liquid-cooled as well as fuel-injected. Not to mention being a four-stroke. And the benefit of Yamaha quality and support. Heh... you could always give it a custom paint-job...

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:17 am

Roose Hurro wrote:
teabow1 wrote:
Roose Hurro wrote:Well, since you have access to a Yamaha dealer, why not check out a C3?

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/produ ... /home.aspx

And here's a review: http://www.justgottascoot.com/yamahac3.htm

Aaand a video review: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYLYEg8O674
Thanks! My husband suggested it and I thought the specs are really good but it's really ugly! I'd feel like I'm a delivery guy on that
Ugly is in the eye of the beholder... I think of it as "distinctive". Plus, it seems to fit your desired specs (50cc), and has the benefit of being liquid-cooled as well as fuel-injected. Not to mention being a four-stroke. And the benefit of Yamaha quality and support. Heh... you could always give it a custom paint-job...

Dude, it has 9 GALLONS of storage space! If that's not a rally scooter for the beer, I don't know what is.

Roose Hurro · Post by **Roose Hurro** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:02 am

neotrotsky wrote:Dude, it has 9 GALLONS of storage space! If that's not a rally scooter for the beer, I don't know what is.

This is: http://www.forevergeek.com/wp-content/m ... cooter.jpg

If you wan't one, here you go: http://www.cruzincooler.com/

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:08 am

Yeah, but you look like a dweeb on that thing. The C3 you can make cool looking

http://totalruckus.com/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 94&t=57424

Or one like this...

http://blog.cardomain.com/2008/06/11/yamaha-c3-giggl/

[/url]

teabow1 · Post by **teabow1** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:48 am

Roose Hurro wrote: Ugly is in the eye of the beholder... I think of it as "distinctive". Plus, it seems to fit your desired specs (50cc), and has the benefit of being liquid-cooled as well as fuel-injected. Not to mention being a four-stroke. And the benefit of Yamaha quality and support. Heh... you could always give it a custom paint-job...

You are very correct regarding that the specs meet what I'm looking for. But it's quite ugly. I think the Zuma has the same specs without the 9 gallon storage. The Zuma is not as ugly but it's not as cute as the Metropolitan. Hard decisions though...

Roose Hurro · Post by **Roose Hurro** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:25 am

teabow1 wrote:
Roose Hurro wrote: Ugly is in the eye of the beholder... I think of it as "distinctive". Plus, it seems to fit your desired specs (50cc), and has the benefit of being liquid-cooled as well as fuel-injected. Not to mention being a four-stroke. And the benefit of Yamaha quality and support. Heh... you could always give it a custom paint-job...
You are very correct regarding that the specs meet what I'm looking for. But it's quite ugly. I think the Zuma has the same specs without the 9 gallon storage. The Zuma is not as ugly but it's not as cute as the Metropolitan. Hard decisions though...

You mentioned SYM, I believe? Ever looked at the Mio?

teabow1 · Post by **teabow1** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:27 pm

Roose Hurro wrote:
teabow1 wrote:
Roose Hurro wrote:
You mentioned SYM, I believe? Ever looked at the Mio?
Yes, originally we were looking at SYM too. However, our local dealer said that since SYM moved assembly to China either this year or last, they have noticed reliability issues with it so he essentially told us to stay away from them, at least the new models which is what we're looking for.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:50 pm

teabow1 wrote:
Roose Hurro wrote:
teabow1 wrote: Yes, originally we were looking at SYM too. However, our local dealer said that since SYM moved assembly to China either this year or last, they have noticed reliability issues with it so he essentially told us to stay away from them, at least the new models which is what we're looking for.
Some of the SYM scoots are built on the mainland, but the best of the SYM bunch are still made in Taiwan. More than assembly location is the fact that Alliance, the new national distributor for SYM, isn't bringing in the Mio. In fact, their site shows no 50's.
They list the Fiddle II 125, the Symba, the Wolf Classic 150 MC, and the HD200, the best scoot for the buck, IMBO.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:10 pm

Would I offend anyone if I gave my honest opinion of the SYM Mio? I like a lot of the SYMs, but not that one!

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:42 pm

ericalm wrote:Would I offend anyone if I gave my honest opinion of the SYM Mio? I like a lot of the SYMs, but not that one!

Really. I think it's just cute as a button. More cute than the Honda Metro. I'd ride that for sure if they put the HD's 171 in it!

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:51 pm

Syd wrote:
ericalm wrote:Would I offend anyone if I gave my honest opinion of the SYM Mio? I like a lot of the SYMs, but not that one!
Really. I think it's just cute as a button. More cute than the Honda Metro. I'd ride that for sure if they put the HD's 171 in it!

..I think it's kinda cute too. In a little cycloptic monster type of way. Mike Wyzowski!

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:55 pm

Uncle Groucho wrote:Just to echo some similar posts, I'd suggest possibly going with a used 50cc, take some time to get familiar with it, get your license and then move up to something bigger.
I too bought a 50cc because I didn't want to go through the hassle and expense of getting a license, tag, and so forth. That was two months ago and I sooo wish I had gone with a bigger engine.

My experience was different. I bought a 50cc because I just wanted a bike I didn't have to pedal, so I could cover more range without getting sweaty. I didn't see a a need for anything faster. That was 2.5 years and 12.5K miles ago, and I'm perfectly happy with it. Sure, it'd be nice if it could climb hills without losing 5mph, but that's hardly the sort of thing that Regret is made of. If my scooter died tomorrow, I'd probably buy the exact same thing to replace it. Just a different color, for the sake of change.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:55 pm

AWinn6889 wrote:
Syd wrote:
ericalm wrote:Would I offend anyone if I gave my honest opinion of the SYM Mio? I like a lot of the SYMs, but not that one!
Really. I think it's just cute as a button. More cute than the Honda Metro. I'd ride that for sure if they put the HD's 171 in it!
..I think it's kinda cute too. In a little cycloptic monster type of way. Mike Wyzowski!

In person, to me it looks really cheaply made. Weird plasti-metallic colors. Looks like a toy!

teabow1 · Post by **teabow1** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:31 pm

I don't know if I should start a new thread since we have deviated quite a bit and at this point my decisions have changed enough that it's no longer what I originally was asking. I'll stick to this thread for now...

So the new development is that for me it's now between:
Honda Metropolitan vs. Genuine Buddy (both 50cc)

In fact, I would say it's probably leaning more towards the Metropolitan. My local Genuine dealer is not offering the $500 holiday accessories free thingie because that only applies to 2010 models and older and all they have is 2012!

Now, I haven't been able to find out if my local Honda dealer is able to give me the $200 discount for the 2009/2008 Metro. I'll have to call them since they don't seem to respond much to email. According to Honda website, the $200 discount is applicable between Nov 1 and Dec. 31. And it seems to suggest it would be applicable at all Honda scooter dealers. If true, it means I would be looking at the Honda Metropolitan for $1,849 vs. the the Genuine Buddy at $2,000.

It remains that the 4-stroke seem to be ecologically more friendly than the 2-stroke here. And, I do have a preference for the Honda name although it only offers 1 year warranty (and I think no roadside assistance unless you buy some extra care protection plan). On the other hand, I'm thinking how often would I really need the roadside assistance? I expect both Genuine Buddy and Honda Metropolitan to be very reliable. And, I would be using the scooter as a serious mode of transport, not just weekend fun (and definitely won't be doing drag races or tearing up some lovely grass field--guess I'm rather conservative that way).

My local Genuine dealer guy has been so helpful with his knowledge and so attentive I wish I could buy a Honda from them. Alas they don't and said they can't offer new Honda for sale since they aren't a dealer.

My husband suggest that I test ride a Genuine Buddy and Honda Metropolitan to see what I like most. I guess that's the next step.

Can I assume that scooter stores would allow me to test ride what they have in stock before I make a decision on purchasing?

uncleralph · Post by **uncleralph** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:42 pm

Some dealers will allow test rides, others won't. You will have to ask them.

I had a 2003 Met that I just sold recently. It was absolutely reliable and great fun. I replaced it with a larger Honda Elite. A strong factor in my upgrade choice was the fact that there is a local Honda dealer. The nearest Genuine dealer is 40 miles away. This being a Genuine forum, you will probably get more positive responses about the Buddy, but I don't think you can go wrong with either one.

Ralph

teabow1 · Post by **teabow1** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:02 pm

P.S. I should add for fun that my husband thinks the Honda Metropolitan looks like those World War II scooter. LOL

He prefers the Buddy.[/img]

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:08 pm

@Teabow1: What are the reasons for wanting a 50cc? IMO people tend to "out grow" them quickly and opt for something a bit faster and if you decide you want to go that route, then you'll lose money and time trying to sell it later on. I realize you have a budget constraint and all, but the carbon footprint isn't much different from a 50cc to a 125cc and getting a MC license isn't hard at all. Even if you get a 50cc your still gonna need the gear and insurance isn't all that much. Especially if you get the basic liability...

teabow1 · Post by **teabow1** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:41 pm

Drum Pro wrote:@Teabow1: What are the reasons for wanting a 50cc? IMO people tend to "out grow" them quickly and opt for something a bit faster and if you decide you want to go that route, then you'll lose money and time trying to sell it later on. I realize you have a budget constraint and all, but the carbon footprint isn't much different from a 50cc to a 125cc and getting a MC license isn't hard at all. Even if you get a 50cc your still gonna need the gear and insurance isn't all that much. Especially if you get the basic liability...

You bring up a good point.

I'm a little on the conservative side here. I think if I were to go faster on a scooter (say highway speeds), I really should take an MSF course first. My feeling is that motorised two-wheels at highway speeds can be very dangerous without proper training. And, while it seems to be true that a Motorcycle endorsement isn't difficult to get, it doesn't make for a sensible scooter/motorcycle rider.

When I first took to bicycling as a serious mode of transport, I invested some energy into learning about how to be a bicyclist with good road sense. Although I never took a course, I did do a lot of reading on it especially using the book « Effective Cycling ».

Nevertheless, you do have a good point, especially about upgrading to a 125cc or 100cc.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:59 pm

teabow1 wrote:P.S. I should add for fun that my husband thinks the Honda Metropolitan looks like those World War II scooter. LOL

He prefers the Buddy.

I think every time someone posts a photo of a Vespa TAP to a forum or blog, we're all supposed to do a shot!

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:17 pm

The MSF basic course is FUN!!! Riding a 50cc or a 900cc the basic principals of riding are the same and with you being a push bike rider shouldn't have any problems. The only difference is the weight of the bike and how fast you are going. You can even use your scoot at the MSF class as long as it's 300cc or less. They are going to give you a manual 125 bike for the basic course anyway. On a scoot it's a hoot! not to mention that a Buddy or a Honda is probably going to be a twist 'n' go. A 125cc scoot is NOT ideal for the freeway.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:45 pm

teabow1 wrote:P.S. I should add for fun that my husband thinks the Honda Metropolitan looks like those World War II scooter. LOL

He prefers the Buddy.[/img]

Considering that Vespa scooters didn't exist in WWII, I don't see the direct relation. Piaggio got into the motorbike business in order to survive the post-war economy where Italy's industrial capability was destroyed. Much of the Vespa's design came out of Piaggio's experience in building aircraft which made so many of their design techniques so innovative. That scooter in the picture was designed for qujck deployment 2-man artilery teams in I believe Northern Africa (but I may be off on that. Anyone?) during the late 50's by Piaggio

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:34 pm

Drum Pro wrote:The MSF basic course is FUN!!! Riding a 50cc or a 900cc the basic principals of riding are the same and with you being a push bike rider shouldn't have any problems. The only difference is the weight of the bike and how fast you are going. You can even use your scoot at the MSF class as long as it's 300cc or less. They are going to give you a manual 125 bike for the basic course anyway. On a scoot it's a hoot! not to mention that a Buddy or a Honda is probably going to be a twist 'n' go. A 125cc scoot is NOT ideal for the freeway.

Some of your information is wrong. What one can ride in the MSF Basic Rider Course is different from state-to-state (and even in-state in some places). For example, you absolutely cannot ride your own bike in the BRC in Rhode Island and the bikes offered are all motorcycles of 250cc except for the three TW200s they have left (four were stolen and the three recovered from around the state).

Another point on the 50cc v. bigger scoot. There is nothing wrong with the little 50s; it's all in how the person wants to use it. It's me and TVB defending the small scoots (and I don't even have my Met anymore) and we shouldn't have to. The OP is a hardcore bicyclist. The 50 will blow her mind. Not everyone grows out of the 50s, especially if the person is using it for heavy urban riding where traffic never gets faster than 25 mph. Gaah, it makes me crazy.

To the OP: you can't go wrong with either the Met or the Buddy. That said, if you're not into doing any work yourself, the support of the Genuine dealer is something to really consider. You might ask him if he can work on the Met so you don't have to deal with the Honda dealer for maintenance. That way, you get a great little Honda but with a dealer you like.

My only thoughts on the Met is that it's slow on take-off (I call it the Honda recliner acceleration as the Transalp feels the same way, like an old man getting out of a La-Z-Boy) and smaller/shorter than the Buddy. That said, I'm 5'11" and rode mine relentlessly for three years. It was an '02 so it sounds like they fixed the pep a bit. It's still running strong, too, as the girl who bought it still rides around on it.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:38 pm

teabow1 wrote:It remains that the 4-stroke seem to be ecologically more friendly than the 2-stroke here. And, I do have a preference for the Honda name although it only offers 1 year warranty (and I think no roadside assistance unless you buy some extra care protection plan).

Additional differences between the Buddy and the Metropolitan are cooling and fueling. The Met is water cooled, I believe. In general I would say that water cooling is better, but it does add complexity in design. A friend owns a Met and mentioned that the gas tank is underfoot, which implies a fuel pump. I don't know if a pump is used in the Buddy, but if it is it is another level of complexity to consider.

Alexbv200 · Post by **Alexbv200** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:54 pm

When people mention $350 for freight???
I tell them that the Cadillac Escalade built right here in the DFW area has a $800 destination charge and people that buy these 20 miles from the factory still have to pay that....

PDI fee... techs have to get paid for their labor.
I am not saying that we should rape people but still.

Keep in mind too that if you finance a bike through a promotion, the dealer gets charged 2%.
If you pay by credit card, dealer gets charged 3%..

If some one is paying cash, then you could work things out.

teabow1 · Post by **teabow1** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:08 pm

siobhan wrote:
My only thoughts on the Met is that it's slow on take-off (I call it the Honda recliner acceleration as the Transalp feels the same way, like an old man getting out of a La-Z-Boy) and smaller/shorter than the Buddy. That said, I'm 5'11" and rode mine relentlessly for three years. It was an '02 so it sounds like they fixed the pep a bit. It's still running strong, too, as the girl who bought it still rides around on it.

I like your description of the Metro's acceleration

I have an itemised list of OTD price for the Metro. I want to know if I can post it here for you folks to assess if I'm being "taken advantage" of. I can do this privately if such a thing is a faux pas.

Re : getting the Genuine dealer to maintain the Metro. I would like to. I'm so impressed with their attentiveness thus far!

teabow1 · Post by **teabow1** » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:10 pm

By the way, I have not yet negotiated OTD with my Honda dealer. Of course not, given that I haven't decided what to get yet. But, I can pay cash. Given that, can I negotiate for a lower price? And what's fair amount to take off?

-------

LunaP · Post by **LunaP** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:32 am

teabow1 wrote:
Drum Pro wrote:@Teabow1: What are the reasons for wanting a 50cc? IMO people tend to "out grow" them quickly and opt for something a bit faster and if you decide you want to go that route, then you'll lose money and time trying to sell it later on. I realize you have a budget constraint and all, but the carbon footprint isn't much different from a 50cc to a 125cc and getting a MC license isn't hard at all. Even if you get a 50cc your still gonna need the gear and insurance isn't all that much. Especially if you get the basic liability...
You bring up a good point.

I'm a little on the conservative side here. I think if I were to go faster on a scooter (say highway speeds), I really should take an MSF course first. My feeling is that motorised two-wheels at highway speeds can be very dangerous without proper training. And, while it seems to be true that a Motorcycle endorsement isn't difficult to get, it doesn't make for a sensible scooter/motorcycle rider.

When I first took to bicycling as a serious mode of transport, I invested some energy into learning about how to be a bicyclist with good road sense. Although I never took a course, I did do a lot of reading on it especially using the book « Effective Cycling ».

Nevertheless, you do have a good point, especially about upgrading to a 125cc or 100cc.

I wish all scooterists thought like you ;_;

Or all motorists for that matter. MSF is a +1 idea and I can understand your hesitation in getting something bigger without taking it. (That being said, to play devil's advocate, one can argue that even on a 50cc one should take an MSF course)

If you think it's possible you could 'outgrow' your 50cc, I'd encourage you to look at a Buddy 125 or 150. A new 125 is MSRP 27 or 2800, I believe, and I know it's a few hundred off your price range, but in the long run it would keep you from re-spending another few thousand after 'outgrowing'. Additionally, I don't know what maintenance is like on the Metro, but one of the reasons I bought a Buddy is everybody I talked to in my club (before I got on MB) described as Buddys as 'fun', 'bulletproof', and 'practically maintenance free' (as in, they don't have problems every other turn down the road).

I appreciated the fact that the Buddy has plastic paneling, so if it gets messed up somehow, it's cheaper to replace than a scoot with metal paneling. I was in turn worried about the panels being easier to mess up- but I've had 3 low-speed drops, and have been surprised each time by how smart the Buddy's design is and how extremely well it takes (or doesn't take) damage. I have no crash bars- just additional passenger footpegs. We thought we jammed the right mirror bolt on the last one, so my bf took it to our shop to ask the mechanic to loosen it for us so we could adjust everything properly again- and our mechanic informed us that the right side mirror bolt is reverse-threaded so that if it goes down on the right side, the mirror loosens and goes inward instead of breaking or bending! Not only did he/we feel dumb, we were dumbfounded at how smart that was on Genuine's part XDD

But maybe you could get on a Honda site- I've heard of TotalRuckus.com, and see if anybody can tell you more specifics about the Metro like this (it's not pretty, but have you considered the Ruckus?)

teabow1 wrote:I don't know if I should start a new thread since we have deviated quite a bit and at this point my decisions have changed enough that it's no longer what I originally was asking. I'll stick to this thread for now...

So the new development is that for me it's now between:
Honda Metropolitan vs. Genuine Buddy (both 50cc)

My husband suggest that I test ride a Genuine Buddy and Honda Metropolitan to see what I like most. I guess that's the next step.

Can I assume that scooter stores would allow me to test ride what they have in stock before I make a decision on purchasing?

I definitely think it should come down to your test drive either way. The dealers may not let you drive them, or may require you to at least have your M-Class before they let you, but at least go to the dealers and sit on them. See which you like sitting on better. Sit on each of them for 20 minutes. Is one too tall? Too short? Leg room? Maybe they'd let you take it off the stand in the show room to let you see how well you can flat foot it, and see how much weight you have to support? Things like that.

My last bit of advice is... if you like your genuine dealer that much, maybe you should let that tip the scale for you. I'm spoiled to pieces having an awesome dealer, but it really makes all the difference sometimes.

Oh, and you can probably re-name the thread title if you wanted to

teabow1 · Post by **teabow1** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:44 am

Okay, so I asked admin if it's okay to post itemised OTD and it's a-okay!

For 2009 Honda Metro

MSRP: $2,049
Delivery: $205 (dealer said fee is the same even if scoot comes from another dealer)
Assembly: $175
DOC fee: $139 (he explained this as documents fee)
Taxes: $138.31
Discount: -$200 (Honda offering this)

-----------------------------
OTD TOTAL: $2,506.31

Are the fees for delivery, assembly, and Doc fees reasonable? Dealer said the scooter is likely to come from another dealer since both their locations are out of the scooter. And how much can I negotiate off for paying in cash?

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:44 am

teabow1 wrote:Okay, so I asked admin if it's okay to post itemised OTD and it's a-okay!

For 2009 Honda Metro

MSRP: $2,049
Delivery: $205 (dealer said fee is the same even if scoot comes from another dealer)
Assembly: $175
DOC fee: $139 (he explained this as documents fee)
Taxes: $138.31
Discount: -$200 (Honda offering this)

-----------------------------
OTD TOTAL: $2,506.31

Are the fees for delivery, assembly, and Doc fees reasonable? Dealer said the scooter is likely to come from another dealer since both their locations are out of the scooter. And how much can I negotiate off for paying in cash?

That actually sounds about right for around here

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:47 am

siobhan wrote:Another point on the 50cc v. bigger scoot. There is nothing wrong with the little 50s; it's all in how the person wants to use it. It's me and TVB defending the small scoots (and I don't even have my Met anymore) and we shouldn't have to. The OP is a hardcore bicyclist. The 50 will blow her mind. Not everyone grows out of the 50s, especially if the person is using it for heavy urban riding where traffic never gets faster than 25 mph. Gaah, it makes me crazy.

Thank you. Whether it's someone who rides a 150cc scooter predicting that anyone will quickly "outgrow" a 50cc scooter, or a Harley rider snickering about a scooter owner someday getting a "real" motorcycle, or a scooterist protesting that his bike is "not a moped!", there's a common attitude of looking down on "smaller" bikes.

I don't understand that kind of engine-size snobbery. You can hardly mention 50cc scooters here without an owner of a 125-or-bigger recommending an "upgrade" to the type of scooter they ride. Which makes about as much sense as assuming that everyone who buys a computer wants to do the same things with it as you do, or everyone who likes music will enjoy the same bands you love, or the things you love about your part of the country would be irresistible to anyone else. One size doesn't fit all.

At least 2/3 of my scooting is around town, mostly on 35mph roads, either commuting or just enjoying being outside. The rest is on road trips where taking my time getting there is the whole point of the journey. 50cc is just right for what I want a scooter to do... and I'm pretty sure I've had enough time to figure that out. Not everyone figures it out before they buy, and some people change their minds. But I knew myself well enough to know what I wanted, and the only way I can foresee myself outgrowing that is if I start putting on weight again.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:57 am

teabow1 wrote:So the new development is that for me it's now between:Honda Metropolitan vs. Genuine Buddy (both 50cc)

How big are you? Unless you are a very petite rider, you will find the Metro to have really undersized ergonomics (I feel like a monkey riding a football when I get on one). And to say that the Metro is slow off the line is a kind understatement. In my experience, it is woefully underpowered. The Buddy 50 is in a whole different category in my opinion. In fairness, I think anyone considering a 50, should also take a look at a Buddy 125, but that is just my opinion. Remember, whatever you ride, the vehicles around you are still the same and still go the same speed as they did before.

teabow1 · Post by **teabow1** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:43 am

Dooglas wrote:
teabow1 wrote:So the new development is that for me it's now between:Honda Metropolitan vs. Genuine Buddy (both 50cc)
How big are you? Unless you are a very petite rider, you will find the Metro to have really undersized ergonomics (I feel like a monkey riding a football when I get on one). And to say that the Metro is slow off the line is a kind understatement. In my experience, it is woefully underpowered. The Buddy 50 is in a whole different category in my opinion. In fairness, I think anyone considering a 50, should also take a look at a Buddy 125, but that is just my opinion. Remember, whatever you ride, the vehicles around you are still the same and still go the same speed as they did before.

5' 8", 126lbs

uncleralph · Post by **uncleralph** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:44 am

I am 5'-9", 200 lbs and the Met fit me fine. I am not sure if the people stating how slow the Met is have owned one or not, or which model. There was a Met II produced from 2002-2005 that was restricted to 25-30 mph. I never had a problem keeping up with city traffic on my regular Met. I have never ridden a Buddy 50, so I can't compare the two, but the Met was NOT a slug.

Ralph

teabow1 · Post by **teabow1** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:46 am

uncleralph wrote:I am 5'-9", 200 lbs and the Met fit me fine. I am not sure if the people stating how slow the Met is have owned one or not, or which model. There was a Met II produced from 2002-2005 that was restricted to 25-30 mph. I never had a problem keeping up with city traffic on my regular Met. I have never ridden a Buddy 50, so I can't compare the two, but the Met was NOT a slug.

Ralph

This is good to know. I'm pretty slight for a male. I think the Metro will fit me fine.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:22 am

The only time I rode a metro, I felt like an Orangutang on a minibike (freakishly long arms) and it was just not fun. If you're long limbed you won't like the Metro. The Buddy is better by position, but if you got big feet you'll dislike it.

As for 50cc's, I personally have nothing against them except with the drivers in Phoenix, it's just too slow and will get you killed. You need some snappy off the line acceleration that a 50 just won't give you (but the Buddy 125 seems a great fit for it). In the Valley, a 50cc just doesn't cut it for safety from my experience, especially if you ride in downtown Tempe or Phoenix where the ability to haul ass out of the way is critical!

Roose Hurro · Post by **Roose Hurro** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:26 am

teabow1 wrote:
uncleralph wrote:I am 5'-9", 200 lbs and the Met fit me fine. I am not sure if the people stating how slow the Met is have owned one or not, or which model. There was a Met II produced from 2002-2005 that was restricted to 25-30 mph. I never had a problem keeping up with city traffic on my regular Met. I have never ridden a Buddy 50, so I can't compare the two, but the Met was NOT a slug.

Ralph
This is good to know. I'm pretty slight for a male. I think the Metro will fit me fine.

I'm 5'7", and used to weigh 125lbs in my early 20's... heh, I'm still 5'7", but I no longer weigh 125lbs (or have a 29" waist anymore).

Jenetic · Post by **Jenetic** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:41 am

teabow1 wrote:Okay, so I asked admin if it's okay to post itemised OTD and it's a-okay!

For 2009 Honda Metro

MSRP: $2,049
Delivery: $205 (dealer said fee is the same even if scoot comes from another dealer)
Assembly: $175
DOC fee: $139 (he explained this as documents fee)
Taxes: $138.31
Discount: -$200 (Honda offering this)

-----------------------------
OTD TOTAL: $2,506.31

Are the fees for delivery, assembly, and Doc fees reasonable? Dealer said the scooter is likely to come from another dealer since both their locations are out of the scooter. And how much can I negotiate off for paying in cash?

What is the doc fee for since you don't have any "docs" required in your state for a 50cc? As far as negotiating, if you are going to pay literal cash as in a check or actual paper money instead of a credit card, I would try to get the bill reduced by 2-3% which is the fee the dealer would normally have to pay the credit card co. It's not much but it's something.

Delivery & assembly don't seem terrible but there's probably some wiggle room there. Just be careful not to haggle too much if this is the dealer where you're going to do your maintenance & have a relationship with. If it's not and you don't really like the experience you're having so far, you're just going to them cause they have the bike you want, I'd say get whatever you can. Is the dealer they're getting it from someone you could go to directly? I'd bet that's increasing the fees a bit.

The "assembly" is basically one hour of tech time as far as I've been told. I would ask the dealer what exactly is done in the "assembly" and time involved to see if you get a different answer. If it's the same & you think $175/hr is reasonable then you're doing ok. I personally don't think $175/hr is reasonable but that's my personal opinion. I know the dealer needs to make something on the tech's time but I would bet the tech isn't actually making more than $40/hr.

The dealer who posted above and gave an analogy to a cadilac escalade is not making a great argument. An Escalade is a $60k+ car. $800 is a small percentage of that whereas the delivery on the scoot is 10% of it's price. If the destination charge on an Escalade were $6000, you're darn right people would be throwing a fit!

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:56 pm

teabow1 wrote:Okay, so I asked admin if it's okay to post itemised OTD and it's a-okay!

For 2009 Honda Metro

MSRP: $2,049
Delivery: $205 (dealer said fee is the same even if scoot comes from another dealer)
Assembly: $175
DOC fee: $139 (he explained this as documents fee)
Taxes: $138.31
Discount: -$200 (Honda offering this)

-----------------------------
OTD TOTAL: $2,506.31

Are the fees for delivery, assembly, and Doc fees reasonable? Dealer said the scooter is likely to come from another dealer since both their locations are out of the scooter. And how much can I negotiate off for paying in cash?

That is cheap. The dealer prep especially. Take it and run.

Modern Buddy

Piaggio Fly 50cc vs. Genuine Buddy 50cc

Honda Metropolitan vs. Genuine Buddy

Re: Honda Metropolitan vs. Genuine Buddy

Re: Honda Metropolitan vs. Genuine Buddy

Re: Honda Metropolitan vs. Genuine Buddy

Re: Honda Metropolitan vs. Genuine Buddy