[NMBR] The Future of Vespa?

[ericalm]

Vespa 46

The Vespa 46 is a window on future trends in style and technology .

At EICMA 2011 the Vespa 46 unveils a possible future with a tribute to the MP6, the original prototype and progenitor of the world’s most famous scooter, an unsurpassed example of Italian style and creativity. By distilling the essence of a scooter that changed the style of individual mobility forever and enhancing the lines that secured its success, the Pontedera Style Centre has projected the Vespa into a possible future where references and projections, tradition and innovation, merge seamlessly. The vibrant heart of the Vespa 46 is a state-of-the-art engine that paves the way for forthcoming advances, with low fuel consumption and minimal exhaust and noise emissions.

Eh. It's an LX with a restyled body. Not very futuristic. I like the color, the seat and the size but think the rest is way too heavy-handed. Going back to this shape is a wonderful idea. Adding a lot of unnecessary louvres on the cowls is just weird.

[k1dude]

They eliminated any storage at the expense of style. No thanks. Too impractical. They're trying too hard.

[AWinn6889]

I think it's kind of goofy looking... idk. Seems so much less practical as there is likely no under seat storage (judging by the design of the seat/how it's mounted). IMHO, this is a step in the wrong-ish direction.
I do kind of like the white one that's in the back of the picture there... minus the weird eyelid on the headlight, it kind of looks like a streamlined Buddy with funky mirrors.

[pcbikedude]

More fluff than function.

[Silver Streak]

I think you guys are missing the point. This new model is the "46"... get it?

It's a nod to the original '46 Vespa prototype and its designer Corradino D'Ascanio:

[LunaP]

They eliminated any storage at the expense of style. No thanks. Too impractical. They're trying too hard.

+1

(and yes I get the 46 thing... they still could have made it a little more practical and kept the intended design)

[ericalm]

This kind of scooter isn't about storage, which I don't miss at all on it.

My biggest criticism of it is that there's nothing truly futuristic about it other than the elevated seat, a feature I've seen on other concept scooters. With nothing new to show for the Vespa range, they pulled out this and called it a look at the future. Vespa could sell this scooter tomorrow if they wanted to. There's no new tech in it, nothing particularly innovative. It doesn't need the louvres in the cowls; they're just there because the MP6 had them. If they're going to be that faithful, then why not make it a fenderlight?

For a concept scooter, it's pretty unambitious. In past years, Piaggio has presented hybrid and electric vehicles and concepts that were more than just a new body.

And, honestly…


This scooter's getting warm reactions on ModernVespa, but pretty cool ones here and from my Twitter followers. Interesting!

[ravenlore]

This kind of scooter isn't about storage, which I don't miss at all on it.

My biggest criticism of it is that there's nothing truly futuristic about it other than the elevated seat, a feature I've seen on other concept scooters. With nothing new to show for the Vespa range, they pulled out this and called it a look at the future. Vespa could sell this scooter tomorrow if they wanted to. There's no new tech in it, nothing particularly innovative. It doesn't need the louvres in the cowls; they're just there because the MP6 had them. If they're going to be that faithful, then why not make it a fenderlight?

For a concept scooter, it's pretty unambitious. In past years, Piaggio has presented hybrid and electric vehicles and concepts that were more than just a new body.

And, honestly…


This scooter's getting warm reactions on ModernVespa, but pretty cool ones here and from my Twitter followers. Interesting!

Hey, if it came from a reputable manufacturer in black in a 250cc, i'd buy it.

[Silver Streak]

And, honestly…

Looks a lot more like the D'Ascanio prototype than the Aprilia Mojito/Joker Clone to me, lack of fenderlight aside.

[peabody99]

Granted I am on an android and would need to see it in person, but I like it.

[neotrotsky]

Meh. Looks half assed. You can tell they're using the same LEADER powerplant (by the exhaust pipe), the pressed steel wheel covers look like they were either parts bin grabs or printed on a 3D printer on short notice, and the seat looks like they swiped it off of a concept show bike from 1997. It just seems like a "Hey, look! We're *thinking* about something that may be stylish and could be innovative", but major bike companies like BMW and LML are totally stealing their thunder today (both of whom made ground shaking debuts of new technologies and hardware that will make the EU a bunch of happy riders).

Piaggio didn't bring their A game at all if this was the centerpiece of their booth....

**Edit** I'm told by a few over on MV that the engine uses a new 3 valve design that improves power output by 1Kw approximately and it has a rear disc. But, those are hardly Earth shattering news compared to BMW and LML

[Drum Pro]

I like it... I wouldn't buy it though.

[pcbikedude]

I've now have seen more pictures. This is just a concept at this point. Notice: no tail light, no turn signals, no brake handles, no instruments. You can say that you have a 3 valve engine all you want.

It is just vapor. Like the return of the PX.

[Alexbv200]

I've now have seen more pictures. This is just a concept at this point. Notice: no tail light, no turn signals, no brake handles, no instruments. You can say that you have a 3 valve engine all you want.

It is just vapor. Like the return of the PX.

Correction..
The blinkers are integrated in the tip of the handlebar..
Just like they were at one time in the German market.

[Silver Streak]

I've now have seen more pictures. This is just a concept at this point. Notice: no tail light, no turn signals, no brake handles, no instruments. You can say that you have a 3 valve engine all you want.

It is just vapor. Like the return of the PX.

Ermm... it may indeed be a show concept scooter (I don't know), but you obviously haven't looked at the close-up pictures. It does indeed have a tail light, turn indicators (built into the bar ends), brake levers, and instruments.

Vaporware? Who knows, but the return of the PX is a poor example. The new PX is indeed a reality in the rest of the world:
http://www.it.vespa.com/#/vespa/IT/it/Modelli/Vespa-PX

[Southerner]

I have to say that I like it. But then again, I'm a sucker for Art-Deco, louvers and all. That's why I posted the thing about the Henderson.

Those wheels look big. Or is that just an optical illusion?

As to storage, The Stella only has it if you get the glovebox. There should be such an option on this one as well. I think modern scooters have you spoiled.

[ericalm]

I have to say that I like it. But then again, I'm a sucker for Art-Deco, louvers and all. That's why I posted the thing about the Henderson.

Those wheels look big. Or is that just an optical illusion?

As to storage, The Stella only has it if you get the glovebox. There should be such an option on this one as well. I think modern scooters have you spoiled.

Stella comes with a glovebox and it's HUGE in comparison to the ones in modern scoots. No you can't put a helmet in there, but I carry all sorts of stuff in mine.

Still, you're right about modern scoots getting people accustomed to built-in storage. How many motorcycles come with that?

[rsrider]

Pat Benatar has been drinking the blood of virgins.

[neotrotsky]

It's true that reactions on other motorcycle boards for the "new" Vespa concept are cool at best, but on ModernVespa they are ALL nuts about this thing, and pretty down against anyone who thinks it's not the best bike in the show. I mentioned exactly my thoughts and man was I met with some pretty defensive stances. Then again, many modern Vespa riders are very much on board with Piaggio's current styling choices no matter how minor. I just have alot more hope for their designs. This? Meh.

I honestly think Vespa should concentrate on a MORE simple concept. It's a design ethos that did them so well for decades. A 9% power increase only just strangely doesn't strike me as something to be super excited about.

[JHScoot]

This kind of scooter isn't about storage, which I don't miss at all on it.

My biggest criticism of it is that there's nothing truly futuristic about it other than the elevated seat, a feature I've seen on other concept scooters. With nothing new to show for the Vespa range, they pulled out this and called it a look at the future. Vespa could sell this scooter tomorrow if they wanted to. There's no new tech in it, nothing particularly innovative. It doesn't need the louvres in the cowls; they're just there because the MP6 had them. If they're going to be that faithful, then why not make it a fenderlight?

For a concept scooter, it's pretty unambitious. In past years, Piaggio has presented hybrid and electric vehicles and concepts that were more than just a new body.

And, honestly…


This scooter's getting warm reactions on ModernVespa, but pretty cool ones here and from my Twitter followers. Interesting!

the one in the initial post is too swoopy and trying to be "modern" or "post modern" or i really don't know wtf?

the second one is a BMS Heritage, no? refer to the Mojito or w/e but at this late date a joker clone is just a joker clone, and i like my joker clones at around $2000 or less

Vespa can do bettter, yes? a "warm reception" on MV? must be because it is associated with Vespa / Piaggio. can't think of another reason

[Silver Streak]

the second one is a BMS Heritage, no?

No... it's the 1946 Vespa prototype.

Which is what the new Vespa 46 is trying to emulate/update... not the Joker, obviously.

[Silver Streak]

It's true that reactions on other motorcycle boards for the "new" Vespa concept are cool at best, but on ModernVespa they are ALL nuts about this thing, and pretty down against anyone who thinks it's not the best bike in the show. I mentioned exactly my thoughts and man was I met with some pretty defensive stances. Then again, many modern Vespa riders are very much on board with Piaggio's current styling choices no matter how minor. I just have alot more hope for their designs. This? Meh.

I honestly think Vespa should concentrate on a MORE simple concept. It's a design ethos that did them so well for decades. A 9% power increase only just strangely doesn't strike me as something to be super excited about.

I'm not sure what Modern Vespa board you are reading, but it doesn't seem to be the same one that I am. There is a very healthy debate there about whether or not this is a good effort, and I challenge you to find one poster there who said it's "the best bike in the show." It's a Vespa forum, so of course there is going to be a bias toward Vespa; there is an equally strong bias toward Genuine/LML here. Personally, I've bought two Vespas and two Genuines in the past few years, and I like them all. So I consider myself pretty neutral.

I think you flatter yourself by contending that your remarks over there produced defensive reactions. My response is probably one of the ones to which you refer. Since when does simple disagreement with your point of view represent defensiveness? Are these not fora for civil discussion about things we don't agree on?

As I pointed out "over there," this scoot is just an updated take on the original Vespa prototype, and that's all they claim it to be. It's also a vehicle for their introduction of their first totally new 125/150cc engine in a decade. Personally, I think that's pretty big news. Since when is a 9% power increase from an engine with no increase in displacement not something to crow a little about?

If you think Vespa's efforts fall short, what do YOU think they should have introduced? I'm curious...

[supermach]

Vespa 46

The Vespa 46 is a window on future trends in style and technology .

At EICMA 2011 the Vespa 46 unveils a possible future with a tribute to the MP6, the original prototype and progenitor of the world’s most famous scooter, an unsurpassed example of Italian style and creativity. By distilling the essence of a scooter that changed the style of individual mobility forever and enhancing the lines that secured its success, the Pontedera Style Centre has projected the Vespa into a possible future where references and projections, tradition and innovation, merge seamlessly. The vibrant heart of the Vespa 46 is a state-of-the-art engine that paves the way for forthcoming advances, with low fuel consumption and minimal exhaust and noise emissions.

Eh. It's an LX with a restyled body. Not very futuristic. I like the color, the seat and the size but think the rest is way too heavy-handed. Going back to this shape is a wonderful idea. Adding a lot of unnecessary louvres on the cowls is just weird.

The Future of Vespa. No the next step for vespa I see it... WoW!

[laxer]

My reaction to this is the same as my reaction to all modern Vespas: meh.

[JHScoot]

the second one is a BMS Heritage, no?

No... it's the 1946 Vespa prototype.

Which is what the new Vespa 46 is trying to emulate/update... not the Joker, obviously.

no the second one (silver). the one with "Shadow" across the rear faring. is that trying to emulate the Vespa 46? is that what a Vespa 46 looked like?

if so it should stop emulating once hundreds of thousands of copies / clones have been produced :/

or is that Shadow a Mojito? a Honda? why did eric post it?

eric, is that a Vespa?

i'm starting to wonder if its even a scooter!

[Lostmycage]

I've now have seen more pictures. This is just a concept at this point. Notice: no tail light, no turn signals, no brake handles, no instruments. You can say that you have a 3 valve engine all you want.

It is just vapor. Like the return of the PX.

Correction..
The blinkers are integrated in the tip of the handlebar..
Just like they were at one time in the German market.

You can do that yourself if you like.

[ericalm]

the second one is a BMS Heritage, no?

No... it's the 1946 Vespa prototype.

Which is what the new Vespa 46 is trying to emulate/update... not the Joker, obviously.

no the second one (silver). the one with "Shadow" across the rear faring. is that trying to emulate the Vespa 46? is that what a Vespa 46 looked like?

if so it should stop emulating once hundreds of thousands of copies / clones have been produced :/

or is that Shadow a Mojito? a Honda? why did eric post it?

eric, is that a Vespa?

i'm starting to wonder if its even a scooter!

It's a Honda Joker clone.

It's not what the '46 Vespa MP6 looked like. Here's the MP6:


This is an Aprilia Mojito:


This is a Genuine Cruiser:


This is a 250cc Stella that's carbureted and fuel injected and can switch between a 4T, a 2T, a shifter, an automatic, a clutchless shift and it's a mobile WiFi hotspot. Also, Batman.

[Syd]

Wow. Now I *really* want one of the Cruisers!

[neotrotsky]

It's true that reactions on other motorcycle boards for the "new" Vespa concept are cool at best, but on ModernVespa they are ALL nuts about this thing, and pretty down against anyone who thinks it's not the best bike in the show. I mentioned exactly my thoughts and man was I met with some pretty defensive stances. Then again, many modern Vespa riders are very much on board with Piaggio's current styling choices no matter how minor. I just have alot more hope for their designs. This? Meh.

I honestly think Vespa should concentrate on a MORE simple concept. It's a design ethos that did them so well for decades. A 9% power increase only just strangely doesn't strike me as something to be super excited about.

I'm not sure what Modern Vespa board you are reading, but it doesn't seem to be the same one that I am. There is a very healthy debate there about whether or not this is a good effort, and I challenge you to find one poster there who said it's "the best bike in the show." It's a Vespa forum, so of course there is going to be a bias toward Vespa; there is an equally strong bias toward Genuine/LML here. Personally, I've bought two Vespas and two Genuines in the past few years, and I like them all. So I consider myself pretty neutral.

I think you flatter yourself by contending that your remarks over there produced defensive reactions. My response is probably one of the ones to which you refer. Since when does simple disagreement with your point of view represent defensiveness? Are these not fora for civil discussion about things we don't agree on?

As I pointed out "over there," this scoot is just an updated take on the original Vespa prototype, and that's all they claim it to be. It's also a vehicle for their introduction of their first totally new 125/150cc engine in a decade. Personally, I think that's pretty big news. Since when is a 9% power increase from an engine with no increase in displacement not something to crow a little about?

If you think Vespa's efforts fall short, what do YOU think they should have introduced? I'm curious...

Wow. Defensive much? I mention how LML is actually producing things people have been asking for, and of course the first thing that comes up is the expectation that the electronics will fry and it's an unproven risk just because it's from LML. I mention how it's not that original of style, and by all outward appearance it was just another LEADER motor, and a 9% increase in power is supposed to wow me when outwardly it really didn't make an effort to look improved?

To me, releasing a new improvement on a model is sort of like the V6 Mustang from 2010 to 2012: In 2010, the V6 put out (I believe) 220Hp. OK, but not groundbreaking. Then, the 2012 'stang's V6 puts out nearly 300Hp and 31MPG highway (of course, who drives that carefully in a mustang... but still). To me, THAT is worthy of a feature in a newly designed machine. 9% power increase isn't impressive. It's OK, but I'm sure not going to be wowed by it especially when they haven't given a close up of this new engine in practice. They say it's in there... but it looks more like "concept" model vaporware. You keep insisting 9% power increase is impressive, but honestly, it's not trade show worthy. Yes, I'm expecting alot out of Piaggio, but frankly they're falling short.

Yes, they had a new Beverly to introduce, but in the face of BMW announcing their entrance into the scooter market, LML finally giving customers what they want: Fuel Injected vintage styled steel scooters, and Honda finally making good on large displacement scooters like they have been teasing, it just makes Piaggio look like they haven't been trying very hard.

And, what should they of introduced? I dunno... perhaps ANY of the previous promises of alternative fuel technology? They claim to of been working on electric and hybrid motors, but where are they? Zero motors just unveiled their new line of electric bikes with a 114 mile charge range and a host of new options ( http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/08/zero ... 012-lineu/) . If they can do that with a price point starting at just under $8k, why can't Piaggio? They're losing ground in their home market in Italy to Honda, and really haven't come out with too much that really thrills. Yes, the Typhoon 125 is cool, but not really pushing the industry like they used to.

As far as style, this concept looks stale. I'm sorry, but it does. Looks like the same kind of stuff that was being cranked out as retro-future concept autos when the Prowler and PT Cruiser came out. Even the seat looks like a half-thought design. That's my opinion of course, but whatever. I think a healthy bit of doubt should be expressed of a good company. I enjoy Piaggio products, so much that I criticize the Piaggio USA management because I want them to do better. Hell, I ride a Vespa still AND have my sights on a Stella to hot rod (after getting my wife on board with the idea after she wanted me to sell my vintage bike due to costs...). But, to honestly think this design, which looks half assed to me, is the "best" Piaggio can do says where the company is at development wise if you ask me, and their loyal customers should demand more.

And, coming out with comments like "I think you flatter yourself" sure makes it sound like you're looking for a fight. For someone who wants civil discourse, you sure know how to bait.

[Southerner]

No... it's the 1946 Vespa prototype.

Which is what the new Vespa 46 is trying to emulate/update... not the Joker, obviously.

no the second one (silver). the one with "Shadow" across the rear faring. is that trying to emulate the Vespa 46? is that what a Vespa 46 looked like?

if so it should stop emulating once hundreds of thousands of copies / clones have been produced :/

or is that Shadow a Mojito? a Honda? why did eric post it?

eric, is that a Vespa?

i'm starting to wonder if its even a scooter!

It's a Honda Joker clone.

It's not what the '46 Vespa MP6 looked like. Here's the MP6:


This is an Aprilia Mojito:


This is a Genuine Cruiser:


This is a 250cc Stella that's carbureted and fuel injected and can switch between a 4T, a 2T, a shifter, an automatic, a clutchless shift and it's a mobile WiFi hotspot. Also, Batman.

Do I detect a slight note of sarcasm?

The MP6 certainly has style but seems pretty utilitarian all the same. Very much the picture of basic transportation in that time period.

[honestlylincoln]

I mention how LML is actually producing things people have been asking for, and of course the first thing that comes up is the expectation that the electronics will fry and it's an unproven risk just because it's from LML. I mention how it's not that original of style, and by all outward appearance it was just another LEADER motor, and a 9% increase in power is supposed to wow me when outwardly it really didn't make an effort to look improved?

Hey man, since you didn't reply to me on MV, I decided to come over here. I had a log-in ages ago (4-5years?), but decided to make one to match my other online personas.

I regret saying the thing about LML electronics and bearings. Firstly, because it isn't fair and secondly, it doesn't really reflect my true opinions of LML and Genuine Stella. I really like that LML is making what it does and I love that Genuine is selling it. They have their issues, but so does every other manufacturer. I am really weary of fuel injected Vespas after all the pump issues.
I agree with a lot of your problems with the styling. I think using the same old exhaust is dumb. I think that using a wheel that looks like it was from the 70s was a bad choice. I think the seat is ugly and about twice as big as it needs to be. I disagree with you about the engine. The old engine needed to be updated and I am happy to see the new one. It is the engine that I wished the LX had for the last 5 years.
My problem with your posts were that they read like ad copy for LML and BMW specifically written to denigrate Vespa.

major bike companies like BMW and LML are totally stealing their thunder today

both of whom made ground shaking debuts of new technologies and hardware

Other scooter companies are owning them[Vespa] with some heavy releases.

Are you really surprised that the posters (me) at Modern Vespa got a bit defensive?

[pcbikedude]

I've now have seen more pictures. This is just a concept at this point. Notice: no tail light, no turn signals, no brake handles, no instruments. You can say that you have a 3 valve engine all you want.

It is just vapor. Like the return of the PX.

Ermm... it may indeed be a show concept scooter (I don't know), but you obviously haven't looked at the close-up pictures. It does indeed have a tail light, turn indicators (built into the bar ends), brake levers, and instruments.

Vaporware? Who knows, but the return of the PX is a poor example. The new PX is indeed a reality in the rest of the world:
http://www.it.vespa.com/#/vespa/IT/it/Modelli/Vespa-PX

My mistake. The pics provided here and MV didn't show much. But I can't see the light package able to pass our DOT whacko standards.

I think the scooter buyers in Europe are far different than here. The scooter is a way of life for them. It is considered recreation here. So it may not do as well as you might expect.

If I'm not mistaken, the Honda SH series are the best sellers in Europe. That info is from about 6 month ago.

[Silver Streak]

Wow. Defensive much?

Well... if you think that the definition of "defensive" is taking the opposite stance from you on a controversial subject, then I guess I'm defensive by your definition.

Like honestlylincoln, I'm not sure what kind of reaction you really expected when you wrote what you did over at Modern Vespa, but you shouldn't be surprised at the reaction you got.

Who was the first to bait here?

[Dooglas]

It's true that reactions on other motorcycle boards for the "new" Vespa concept are cool at best, but on ModernVespa they are ALL nuts about this thing, and pretty down against anyone who thinks it's not the best bike in the show.

I'll accept that some folks over on MV like this as a design exercise. I think suggesting many are calling it best of show is going overboard. The real excitement over on MV is for the new Beverly 350 and other future uses of the all new 350 engine. And that one certainly isn't vaporware.

[ericalm]

Who was the first to bait here?

I'm not sure and, honestly, I've been skimming and not paying much attention to this bickering until now, at which point I'm going to say please stop the bickering. Take out back if you guys need to duke it out or whatever.

Gracias,
Mgmt.

[ericalm]

MEANWHILE…

This is a little more than a tarted up LX; it's got a new engine in there.

"Piaggio claims a maximum output of 11.7 hp at 8250 rpm while torque peaks at 7.6 at 7000 rpm. A 150cc version claims peak output of 13.0 hp at 8000 rpm and torque of 9.3 at 6500 rpm."
(via Hell for Leather, whose stories go behind a paywall after 12 hours so I'm not linking to it.)

This is good, but a modestly more powerful injected engine still doesn't say "future" to me.

Facebook posters and Twitterers are raving about this thing, and the more they do, the more I want to call "Emperor's New Clothes" on it. It's pretty in its own way, I guess. But I don't see the future. I see a scooter that will be a pain to clean.

[scootavaran]

well.... It does have very retro future look to it.

[Silver Streak]

Who was the first to bait here?

I'm not sure and, honestly, I've been skimming and not paying much attention to this bickering until now, at which point I'm going to say please stop the bickering. Take out back if you guys need to duke it out or whatever.

Gracias,
Mgmt.

De nada.

[JHScoot]

It's true that reactions on other motorcycle boards for the "new" Vespa concept are cool at best, but on ModernVespa they are ALL nuts about this thing, and pretty down against anyone who thinks it's not the best bike in the show. I mentioned exactly my thoughts and man was I met with some pretty defensive stances. Then again, many modern Vespa riders are very much on board with Piaggio's current styling choices no matter how minor. I just have alot more hope for their designs. This? Meh.

I honestly think Vespa should concentrate on a MORE simple concept. It's a design ethos that did them so well for decades. A 9% power increase only just strangely doesn't strike me as something to be super excited about.

I'm not sure what Modern Vespa board you are reading, but it doesn't seem to be the same one that I am. There is a very healthy debate there about whether or not this is a good effort, and I challenge you to find one poster there who said it's "the best bike in the show." It's a Vespa forum, so of course there is going to be a bias toward Vespa; there is an equally strong bias toward Genuine/LML here. Personally, I've bought two Vespas and two Genuines in the past few years, and I like them all. So I consider myself pretty neutral.

I think you flatter yourself by contending that your remarks over there produced defensive reactions. My response is probably one of the ones to which you refer. Since when does simple disagreement with your point of view represent defensiveness? Are these not fora for civil discussion about things we don't agree on?

As I pointed out "over there," this scoot is just an updated take on the original Vespa prototype, and that's all they claim it to be. It's also a vehicle for their introduction of their first totally new 125/150cc engine in a decade. Personally, I think that's pretty big news. Since when is a 9% power increase from an engine with no increase in displacement not something to crow a little about?

If you think Vespa's efforts fall short, what do YOU think they should have introduced? I'm curious...

Wow. Defensive much? I mention how LML is actually producing things people have been asking for, and of course the first thing that comes up is the expectation that the electronics will fry and it's an unproven risk just because it's from LML. I mention how it's not that original of style, and by all outward appearance it was just another LEADER motor, and a 9% increase in power is supposed to wow me when outwardly it really didn't make an effort to look improved?

To me, releasing a new improvement on a model is sort of like the V6 Mustang from 2010 to 2012: In 2010, the V6 put out (I believe) 220Hp. OK, but not groundbreaking. Then, the 2012 'stang's V6 puts out nearly 300Hp and 31MPG highway (of course, who drives that carefully in a mustang... but still). To me, THAT is worthy of a feature in a newly designed machine. 9% power increase isn't impressive. It's OK, but I'm sure not going to be wowed by it especially when they haven't given a close up of this new engine in practice. They say it's in there... but it looks more like "concept" model vaporware. You keep insisting 9% power increase is impressive, but honestly, it's not trade show worthy. Yes, I'm expecting alot out of Piaggio, but frankly they're falling short.

Yes, they had a new Beverly to introduce, but in the face of BMW announcing their entrance into the scooter market, LML finally giving customers what they want: Fuel Injected vintage styled steel scooters, and Honda finally making good on large displacement scooters like they have been teasing, it just makes Piaggio look like they haven't been trying very hard.

And, what should they of introduced? I dunno... perhaps ANY of the previous promises of alternative fuel technology? They claim to of been working on electric and hybrid motors, but where are they? Zero motors just unveiled their new line of electric bikes with a 114 mile charge range and a host of new options ( http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/08/zero ... 012-lineu/) . If they can do that with a price point starting at just under $8k, why can't Piaggio? They're losing ground in their home market in Italy to Honda, and really haven't come out with too much that really thrills. Yes, the Typhoon 125 is cool, but not really pushing the industry like they used to.

As far as style, this concept looks stale. I'm sorry, but it does. Looks like the same kind of stuff that was being cranked out as retro-future concept autos when the Prowler and PT Cruiser came out. Even the seat looks like a half-thought design. That's my opinion of course, but whatever. I think a healthy bit of doubt should be expressed of a good company. I enjoy Piaggio products, so much that I criticize the Piaggio USA management because I want them to do better. Hell, I ride a Vespa still AND have my sights on a Stella to hot rod (after getting my wife on board with the idea after she wanted me to sell my vintage bike due to costs...). But, to honestly think this design, which looks half assed to me, is the "best" Piaggio can do says where the company is at development wise if you ask me, and their loyal customers should demand more.

And, coming out with comments like "I think you flatter yourself" sure makes it sound like you're looking for a fight. For someone who wants civil discourse, you sure know how to bait.

pretty much that right there in the bold. my thoughts, pretty much

i thought scooters were already somewhat "retro." even the so called "modern vespa." i mean, that thing looks like a scooter to me. an old one, new one, w/e. this thing is trying to look like something old. it succeeds on that count. the longer i look at it, the more i realize i have seen it before. its not new or old, its just a retread styling wise

if they build it hopefully it won't come to market as is

i'd much rather see something done to the modern LX. as in moving the whole thing forward, not backward. interesting how many car companies such as BMW and Mercedes know how to update their vehicles without changing the spirit of the thing. and by refining styling and design they sometimes invoke the past without beating us over the head with it

then you have the retro stuff from bikes to 'Stangs, to PT Cruisers. maybe add vespa to that undesirable mix, now?

you know, i think the modern "S" model does a much better job at invoking Vespa past then this piece of rolling non art. if seeking a bit of the past, an "S" should suffice imo. but maybe not?

that seat is dumb, too

[JHScoot]

also, i have no idea where i'd put my size 13's on something like this? from the looks of it shoe size 5 would be most appropriate

this is a "concept," right?

[ericalm]

Yes. I think it's unlikely to be built in this form.

I would like to know more about this new engine…

[LunaP]

It's not what the '46 Vespa MP6 looked like. Here's the MP6:


This is an Aprilia Mojito:


This is a Genuine Cruiser:


This is a 250cc Stella that's carbureted and fuel injected and can switch between a 4T, a 2T, a shifter, an automatic, a clutchless shift and it's a mobile WiFi hotspot. Also, Batman.

This is why I think you are the best mod ever.

Also, Batman on a unicorn commanding a magical dolphin army, (AKA the twisty shifty carb'd FI 2500cc hotspot Stella) makes arguments invalid. Just start posting him when you encounter bickering.

[Southerner]

There is a tendency on forums for people to get carried away with their concept of the "ideal (insert thing of your choice here)." This concept generally results in some sort of Eierlegendewollmilchsau, as the Germans call it. The pitiful thing is, if we had it, we would soon discover that we didn't like it after all.

Another thing I've noticed is that forum attendees are continually mystified by manufacturer's decisions and the buying practices of the general public.

I guess it has to do with human nature.

[ericalm]

There is a tendency on forums for people to get carried away with their concept of the "ideal (insert thing of your choice here)." This concept generally results in some sort of Eierlegendewollmilchsau, as the Germans call it. The pitiful thing is, if we had it, we would soon discover that we didn't like it after all.

Another thing I've noticed is that forum attendees are continually mystified by manufacturer's decisions and the buying practices of the general public.

I guess it has to do with human nature.

I need to figure out how to pronounce that. Maybe I should keep it on my clipboard because I'll never learn to spell it! The literal definition: "egg-laying wool-milk-sow." Something that does it all.

Because we're the defacto community of Genuine owners (and this goes for modern Vespas on that site, car forums, etc.) we often mistakenly come to think that we represent the tastes and attitudes of the sum of Genuine owners or the scooter-buying public. We're the enthusiasts and most of us already own a scooter (or two); what we want is much different from what first-time buyers want and different from the market in general.

We frequently hear clamoring on the forums that company X should make a scooter like Y or bring back a version of Z but usually the potential sales of these products is very limited. On the rare occasion Z does appear, just as many people complain about it as were clamoring for it.

Also, the US (much less MB) is a tiny fraction of global scooter sales. That Genuine cruiser so many of us have dreamed about will be built for a rollout in all PGO/Genuine markets. That's a lot to consider and a very costly undertaking!

[polianarchy]

I can't stop laughing at the Batman-riding-a-robot-unicorn-with-the-dolphins picture.

[ericalm]

I can't stop laughing at the Batman-riding-a-robot-unicorn-with-the-dolphins picture.

I wish they made t-shirts of this design.

[jrsjr]

There is a tendency on forums for people to get carried away with their concept of the "ideal (insert thing of your choice here)." This concept generally results in some sort of Eierlegendewollmilchsau, as the Germans call it. The pitiful thing is, if we had it, we would soon discover that we didn't like it after all.

Another thing I've noticed is that forum attendees are continually mystified by manufacturer's decisions and the buying practices of the general public.

I guess it has to do with human nature.

I need to figure out how to pronounce that.

eye-er-leg-end-uh-voll-milch-sow

Don't emphasize any syllables. Just say it right through. Be certain to note that the "w" in "woll" is pronounced as a hard "v," like "voll," rhymes with "roll." That is not a typo. Also "milch" rhymes with"filch." If you do it just like I've written it, Rolfi will know exactly what you are talking about.

You are welcome.

[Lostmycage]

There is a tendency on forums for people to get carried away with their concept of the "ideal (insert thing of your choice here)." This concept generally results in some sort of Eierlegendewollmilchsau, as the Germans call it. The pitiful thing is, if we had it, we would soon discover that we didn't like it after all.

Another thing I've noticed is that forum attendees are continually mystified by manufacturer's decisions and the buying practices of the general public.

I guess it has to do with human nature.

I don't know... this seems pretty feasible to me:


Metal body, a slight bump in horse power, neat two-tone paint scheme and you can't get much more earth friendly than rainbow powered. They even have the much coveted horn light.

Also, there's moth#!f@%kin' dolphins. I expect to take delivery of one in 2013.

[jim morgensen]

I Really want the Batman -Unicorn-Porpoise-Rainbow powered scooter! Maybe this is the future, I don't think this (effort ?) presented by Vespa is really a suggestion. Maybe more like something for the next few years.

I keep hoping some genious young engineer has figured out the anti-gravity, zero emmission motor is just biding his time before we get the real future... I miss Robert A. Heinlein.

[michelle_7728]

Back to the original topic I really like it. Would I personally buy it? Nope. I don't see how I could carry saddlebags on it, and it would look real goofy if you could figure out how to put a rear rack or top case on it...both things I need my scooters to be capable of.

But then I wouldn't buy an MG midget convertible either (unless I already had a couple other cars, and had some place to keep it and extra cash to maintain it). I really like them, and think they are cute, but they are too impractical for my tastes too.