(NSR Rant) Black Thursday is the new Black Friday

[neotrotsky]

Personally, I say frak Black Friday...oops. I mean "Black Thursday" since many retailers are now open on Thanksgiving because hijacking several holidays wasn't enough for spend-happy types, they had to bump out Thanksgiving....

Sorry, I'm bitter my wife is pulling a 12 hour shift the day before and our Thanksgiving had to be cut off at 8pm so she could go into work to pull a DOUBLE shift for her store that opens at midnight. I guess she's lucky: Many retailers opened at 8 and 10pm! She's not even allowed to bring her phone on the property, and if any employee is caught blogging, tweeting or facebooking complaints about working on Thanksgiving they're terminated immediately if found out.

So yes, that is a bit of a rant. What's worse are the "sales" are relegated to two or three on hand, and after having my wife suffer retail for the past year and a half, you find out that 90% of retailers end up not having the "advertised" sale items because employees and managers hoard it for themselves and sell them on Craigslist for a profit and then brag about it the next day...

Thankfully, Buddhist holidays consist of massive food and drink and not around this time of year pretty much, so I don't have the obligation of taking part in "Consummer-mas". Granted I love buying gifts for people and generally making them happy, but being guilted, pressured and called a traitor to the US economy (yes, that's an actual line from a local business radio ad from a car stereo place saying what you are if you don't participate in their Black Friday sale) for not buying tons of crap is just not cool.

I want nothing more than to bitch out the company that pretty much screwed our Thanksgiving plans for my family, but I can't: That could get my wife fired. And, as we all know that's a joyous past time for some this time of year.

/rant off.

[LunaP]

I've worked in retail/customer service since the day I turned 16. This is the first year I can think of that I haven't.

Apparently, I picked a fantastic year to start working at a gas station, and right about now emptying public trash cans in 40 below weather doesn't seem quite as bad.

While more often than not, I would volunteer for Holiday Pay, I think it STINKS that retailers are open on Thanksgiving now. I'm glad I don't have to deal with it.

Prior to Feb, I worked for 3.5 years at a Target store. Target is very strict and corporate about their policies, so I never had an instance like you're talking about with managers/employees hoarding the sale merch, etc... but flip side was, they did stuff like told everybody they HAD to work a Black Friday shift. I would always request to work the morning- our store was a brand new low volume store and Black Friday was never bad at all there.

But I wouldn't want to go back now that they open at freaking midnight. I know what goes on behind the scenes at that store. Shoot me. I feel sorry for all my ex coworkers. I actually went out tonight.... it was a zoo. And Richmond isn't exactly that big or crazy a city either. The Best Buy here was only letting 100 people in the store at once.

Nuts. It's not that serious. Mom and I went a couple places and went home.

Fun fact... Target 'team' insists on calling Black Friday "Green Friday" because they want to be positive and Black Friday sounds negative.

You can laugh now.



BTW don't even get me started on employers butting into the personal lives of their employees. I can understand banning cel phones from the salesfloor, and I'll argue with someone whether it should be in the store in a coat or locker for emergencies. But... well... I'd like to say that a company thinking it has a right to fire somebody for what they say on their personal fb page or whatever is complete bullshit... but... our good ol Commonwealth of VA is a right-to-work state and you can get fired for anything and the employer can basically make up a reason for the paperwork. "Insubordination" will suffice.

*grinds teeth*

[michelle_7728]

...... hijacking several holidays wasn't enough for spend-happy types, they had to bump out Thanksgiving....

I'm with you. It was bad enough when they started having Christmas sales the day after Thanksgiving, but this year it started PRIOR TO HALLOWEEN!

I'm fed up with the commercialization we're all subjected to. I want holidays to mean something...not be just $$ signs.

Rant away!

[ericalm]

I've written and deleted about 5 responses to this since last night. I won't get into the thorny cultural, political, economic and financial issues surrounding BF, BT and American consumerism. (Everyone should avoid this before threads start getting locked.)

I hear nothing but complaints about Black Friday turned Black Thursday yet millions of people believe it's the best way to save the most money. Saving money is great. Getting manipulated and suckered by retailers is not.

If people hate it so much, they need to just stop. Draw a line, refuse to participate. Become better, smarter consumers and promote doing the same to others. Push for positive outcomes instead of constantly complaining about the negative realities they feel powerless to change.

No one is forcing anyone to actually go to Wal*Mart (or wherever) on Thursday. Consumers control when, how and where they spend their discretionary income.

Customers hit by pepper spray at Wal-Mart describe scene of chaos

Good grief, shoppers, was it worth it?

well... I'd like to say that a company thinking it has a right to fire somebody for what they say on their personal fb page or whatever is complete bullshit...

It is complete bullshit, but people also need to be smarter about what they put online and who they allow to see and share that information.

[still shifting]

I have never participated on Black Friday... Ain't happening! R

[BuddyRaton]

I have never participated on Black Friday... Ain't happening! R

Neither have I. And I don't understand those that go out shopping and then complain. Kinda ironic since I start the Spend-a-thon on Thanksgiving every year.

One final thing...if you were able to spend ANY time with your family...be thankful! A lot of people are not able to for one reason or another.

[rsrider]

Stop shopping on BT and BF. Use the power of the wallet to influence behavior you don't agree with. With less people shopping on BT or BF, the lines will be shorter and I can get the cheap chinese crap that I want first.

[AWinn6889]

I had to open our locally owned Gifts-Toys-Books-Novelties store at 7am this morning per mall rules.... and omg the ride in was INSANE, and I was in my car!!! Not ONE car I encountered used turn signals, people obviously didn't know whereTF they were going. Changing lanes abruptly, slamming on brakes without notice in the middle of the traffic lanes, etc etc.
The ride home... I thought I was going to die. There aren't even any places in the general vicinity of the mall that were having any kind of blow out sales or anything!
Now I get home, and the bf wants to "do a quick Walmart run" because he needs bodywash and I need to pick up a couple things. Seriously, CVS is right around the corner, I would rather pay $4.60-something than have to go into town and go to Walmart TODAY of all days. (Why couldn't he have thought of that early yesterday morning, or wednesday!?)

[Southerner]

I went to that craziness one time years ago because there was one silly item I wanted to get. Never again. Humanity was NOT at its finest.

Got a lot of friends who work at Walmart and of course they've worked it but as they tell me, it's all just hype because they same items come in next week and are quietly sold at the same reduced prices most of the time.

If you don't have to work it, stay home and get some sleep. Maybe that way, we'll have a chance to rediscover the true meaning of the holidays that way.

[BootScootin'FireFighter]

I value my time, and I consider my personal time worth at least $20 an hour. By no means would I camp out for almost 2 days in a Best Buy parking lot to save about $300 on a flat screen TV. That's absolutely ridiculous. There are plenty of other deals to be had online, after Christmas, and through Groupon Goods. By all means boycott BF and tell those big box stores to go stick it right up their Keyster.

[Mulliganal]

I hear nothing but complaints about Black Friday turned Black Thursday yet millions of people believe it's the best way to save the most money. Saving money is great. Getting manipulated and suckered by retailers is not.

Now there ya' go right there. My wife and I hate, and I mean hate, malls and the madness that goes along with it around this time of year so we stay clear.

I love being able to shop online in the comfort of my own home and have it delivered to my front door while avoiding the madness created retailers (especially the brick and mortar ones). I worked in retail for many years before going to college and while I was in college, and you can have it. I'll shop from home while having an ice cold beer.

[laxer]

My mother and aunts love to do Black Friday shopping, and they have a wonderful time doing it. It stinks that some people who don't want to work the day after Thanksgiving have to, but I'm sure there are people who are happy for the hours and holiday pay (where offered). I always used to volunteer for a morning shift on Thanksgiving when I was an hourly employee because I got time and a half pay which allowed me a little extra breathing room to buy something nice for my little boy for Christmas (which I guess is contributing to the terrible commercialism of the holiday, but he likes getting new toys and books and it makes me happy to give them to him).

Some things that can be done about Black Friday: If you don't like it, don't go shopping; look for employment in something other than retail; patronize those stores who don't participate in the Black Friday mayhem and let the owner know you appreciate it;

[jijifer]

I worked retail ages 16 to 23 (granted an independent record store not some mega retailer) and back then it was the jerk offs that came in 1 min before close on Christmas Eve and got pissy the lane wasn't moving faster have a special place in hell as far as i'm concerned.

Soon there will be Black Weds and then Black - Tuesday until the sales start 12.26 for then next year.

it's like Nigel's amp going to 11 - why the frick does it matter if there is limited quantities if the store opens at midnight or normal time? But it exists because folks buy into the idea. I do my part by spending NO money on this day. So far so good

[neotrotsky]

My mother and aunts love to do Black Friday shopping, and they have a wonderful time doing it. It stinks that some people who don't want to work the day after Thanksgiving have to, but I'm sure there are people who are happy for the hours and holiday pay (where offered). I always used to volunteer for a morning shift on Thanksgiving when I was an hourly employee because I got time and a half pay which allowed me a little extra breathing room to buy something nice for my little boy for Christmas (which I guess is contributing to the terrible commercialism of the holiday, but he likes getting new toys and books and it makes me happy to give them to him).

Some things that can be done about Black Friday: If you don't like it, don't go shopping; look for employment in something other than retail; patronize those stores who don't participate in the Black Friday mayhem and let the owner know you appreciate it;

In this economy, one does not have the luxury of not working where they find work. I've had several people keep telling me "Well, your wife is just lazy and it's her fault all she can find is retail work". WTF I have a Bachelors and even I have to schlep Pizzas while going to school full time to diversify as does she. Needless to say, I've had issues with this "acquaintance" in the past and this is kind of the tipping point.

It's getting to the point where we don't have a choice where to work, especially in Arizona where things have been hit pretty hard. There is no "job market". And, as far as other stores that don't participate in black Friday/Thursday: So many local businesses have been forced out and bought out. For example: There are only big box retailers to buy a personal computer. The only independent computer shop charges $700 for an off-brand Core-i3 laptop with meager specs, and he claims it's the minimum they can get past while making a profit.

Again, the American standard.

[laxer]

I apologize for being so glass-half-full, I'll try to look for more of the bad in the world...

[charlie55]

I cannot recall a single pre-holiday "limited-quantity" item that did not miraculously become more abundant and much cheaper immediately following the holidays. It's all a cynical manipulative ploy.

The MBAs learned well from the 70's oil embargos: tighten supplies, instill panic, then sit back and listen to the sheep bleat a "thank you" while being fleeced.

My family has never played this game and never will.

[iMoses]

One final thing...if you were able to spend ANY time with your family...be thankful! A lot of people are not able to for one reason or another.

My family is 800 miles away. Maybe next year I'll be with them for the holidays.

FYI, If it weren't ALL the people, shopping on Black Friday would be better. Needless to say I stayed home and slept until 10am.

[LunaP]

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind Black Friday. For some it's become a post-Turkey family tradition. As a broke person, I enjoyed the extra hours and holiday pay. I enjoyed that my employer catered all day on Black Friday and fed the employees each meal of the day.

I'm really not bothered by the fact that it exists at all. I don't think its that bad.

Until the sudden invasion into Thursday. I feel that was unnecessary. But whatever... I think it's kind of like facebook changing its layout... a year or two from now, everybody will be used to it and not be crabbing any longer.

And if I were still in retail, I'd still be volunteering for a double shift for the money. Just sayin.

[amy]

I cannot recall a single pre-holiday "limited-quantity" item that did not miraculously become more abundant and much cheaper immediately following the holidays. It's all a cynical manipulative ploy.

The MBAs learned well from the 70's oil embargos: tighten supplies, instill panic, then sit back and listen to the sheep bleat a "thank you" while being fleeced.

My family has never played this game and never will.

Agreed...spend your money at small businesses and DON'T use anything but cash (if you can) so the big banks don't benefit.

[pcbikedude]

The truth about Black Friday and big banks:
If Black Friday did not exist, many retailers would not exist. It is the day in which they make or break the whole year. Red ink is loss, black ink is profit. Thus, Black Friday. Without Black Friday, many small retailers would fail. For that matter, so would some large retailers.

It was mentioned that we should go to small retailers and pay cash to stick it to the large banks. Wrong, banks will get their money. Retailers need the banks to process their money (deposits), checks, and credit card transactions. Guess what? Banks charge businesses for the amount of bills and coins deposited, number of change bills and coins, and the number of checks deposited. They get their money no matter what.

You get some funny stories from Black Friday. My daughter said that someone urinated inside of a oil change reservoir because they didn't want to get out of line.

[pcbikedude]

Two more dark secrets about Black Friday: Retailers will bring in merchandise that they do not carry throughout the whole year. The will loss lead with that to draw you in.

The last secret is in the fine print of their ads. Limit 1 per customer, only 10 per store. When there are 100's of people waiting in front of the store before it opens, guess what, you're not going to get what you came for unless you camped out in the cold for 6 days prior.

BTW, shopping is not a contact sport.

[Edwub]

It was mentioned that we should go to small retailers and pay cash to stick it to the large banks. Wrong, banks will get their money. Retailers need the banks to process their money (deposits), checks, and credit card transactions. Guess what? Banks charge businesses for the amount of bills and coins deposited, number of change bills and coins, and the number of checks deposited. They get their money no matter what.

Sure, but that's contrary to the make it or break it of retailers you spoke about. Transaction costs, man!

If you pay $10 cash, at least they have $10 cash in the register. If 10 people do that, they have a $100 even.

Actual transaction rates differ completely based on the card company, and on the business itself (how much they process, average transaction size, etc). Credit cards are expensive. Most retailers have a set fee, and then pay a percentage of the purchase as well. "Square" is a processor anyone with a smart phone can get, and it's meant to be simplified. Flat fee of 2.75%. Not useful when talking about most businesses that do Black Friday deals. (though a ton of small businesses out here, and food trucks, and craft booths all use square)

Those 10 payments of $10 are now $97.25 When things are on sale, every percentage point really counts - they all risk cutting into margins. Many things are sold at loss to increase sales of other items which may not be at loss.

But because some people pay credit, and others cash, the big banks and business profit extra: they get a % from the actual sales just by CC transaction fees, and then they still do all the stuff you talked about.

I can't really think of any example where cash isn't preferred to credit, especially for larger purchases. (Heck, we always advise people buying scooters to do the same thing, right? Offer cash for a discount. The discount comes from the dealer not having to lose a few % to the credit card transaction fee).

[babblefish]

To add to what Edwub said; some credit card companies charge retailers more than others. The most reasonable are Mastercard and Visa. American Express, Discover and Diners Club charge the most. The kickbacks/benefits to the consumer from say, Discover has to come from somewhere. The credit card company sure as heck isn't going to sacrifice their profits, so the retailer pays those kickbacks/benefits. This is the reason I won't except Amex, Discover or Diners Club at my store.

Also, do a small business a favor and don't try to use a credit card for small purchases under $10. And yes, we get charged even if you use a debit card. I've had people try to charge a $0.50 (fifty cents!) purchase.

[Southerner]

"BTW, shopping is not a contact sport. "

Neither is professional basketball.