need help,, buddy 50 stalling/sputtering

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:24 am

not sure why and my mechanic doesn't quite know either so I'm here to ask all you engine savvy people.

my scooter has been stalling the past week or so... my battery is probably dead/dying so it won't electric start. it normally kick starts 1st or 2nd try, but the cold weather has caused some extra kicks lately. before I had this problem my scooter was sitting for a couple weeks because of a flat tire. I had the flat fixed as well as having the spark plug, oil, and gear oil changed. maybe a month later, the problem started happening.

sometimes, I will start the engine and there is no problem, I let it warm up for a min and then start riding. the other times, I will start it and it will slowly cut off. the past two rides, I would ride out to my destination and then on the way back, the engine will cut off whenever I'm coming to a stop. I've been keeping the engine slightly revved while breaking for lights to prevent my engine cutting off, but this doesn't always work. whenever the engine is bout to die I give it some more gas and sometimes it will sputter(I guess I'm flooding it)

anyways, called my mechanic and explained the situation and he says since it was sitting for a while it might have build up in the carb.. after I told him it wasn't an ongoing problem he said it was probably something else causing it. I tried adjusting the idle and that seemed to make it better, but just now I was riding and it would die at about every light on my way back home.. it's 52 Fahrenheit right now.. it's normally like 70+ when I ride though.

any suggestions greatly appreciated

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:44 pm

I don't have an answer for you, just some similar experiences. I've been having difficulty starting the scooter, some of which I'm sure is due to my battery suffering from a combination of old age, lots of short rides, and freezing weather; it sometimes needs to be kicked. Then after what sounds like a good start, it immediately dies. Or it dies stopped at a traffic light. It seems to be doing better (but still not without trouble) since I refilled the gas tank (bad gas?) and dosed the fuel with Seafoam, so maybe that would help.

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Sat Dec 24, 2011 4:55 pm

Put a new battery in it and have the carb cleaned...until you do those 2 things you could chae gremlins all day. Its what I would do if it were my bike. The pilot jets in that carb are sooooo small and E10 gas SUCKS for causing problems.

CROSSBOLT · Post by **CROSSBOLT** » Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:20 pm

Is the 50 plagued with the "Stall of Fame" like the 150? I would look up that thread here and read all of it and then use your judgement....

Karl

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 5:25 am

this is a stupid question, why would a new battery help? i thought the battery was just for the electric start and once the engine is going, the engine would supply power for the lights and accessories.. or is my bike only creating electricity when I'm in motion or braking?

from what I read off the Stall of Fame, I probably need to clean the carb, use seafoam, or get some new gas. I don't think it's the last one because I have had this problem before/after I last filled up.

is seafoam basically the easy way of cleaning the carb but its not as effective as cleaning it by hand?

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:21 am

Seafoam or like products will clean out small deposits or issues, and SOMETIMES will catch the problem, but usually, if a pilot jet is clogged it needs to come apart.

The carb is easy to get to and not to bad to clean on your bike. And hour should be good.

The battery? The bike charging system on the genuines is pretty weak. with a dead battery the bike is kinda crippled at idle electric wise. I have seen MANY bikes with running issues fixed by a new battery. Besides, its a fairly cheap battery. Me personally? I would do that first.

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:24 am

alright, bottle of seafoam and a battery for christmas then..

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 1:52 pm

The Buddy 50 can be quite a pain to start when the weather is cold, this is normal as far as I know and there isn't anything to be done about it. As for the stalling when at stop lights, you may want to adjust the idle so that it revs a bit higher at idle, that is what I did and it seems to keep the scoot running at lights when it's colder out. The seafoam is also a good idea, I put seafoam in every tank as I don't ride the Buddy 50 often enough anymore but when I was riding it every day I still put seafoam in the tank every 2 to 3 tanks just to keep the system clean. If that doesn't do the trick then having the carb cleaned or cleaning it yourself is the next thing I would do.

kooky scientist · Post by **kooky scientist** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 10:21 pm

Sometimes I have to take my gas cap off to start in ultra frigid temps also. All of these tips help deal with starting a buddy 50 in the cold but it will run OK throughout a winter. This will be my 3rd winter riding in cold Salem, MA.

Crazy88s · Post by **Crazy88s** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:44 pm

Is it getting vapor locked, if so when this happens find a save place to pull over, turn off the engine, then take off the gas cap for a few minutes so the vapors can escape the tank. then put the gas cap back on, and see if that helps

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 5:38 am

ill try removing the gas cap tomorrow,

is 50F cold enough to cause problems? also about how long do you think it takes for the engine to lose its heat in 50-60 degree weather?

thanks for all your help everyone

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:43 pm

I've never had problems at 50ºF (at least not anything that was related to the temperature); that's just normal spring/fall weather 'round here.

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:07 pm

i tried leaving the gas cap off and running it for like 5 minutes before riding.. it stalled at my first stop, tank was like 2/3 full so i got filled it up thinking it might dilute the potentially bad gas with good gas.. didnt work. kept stalling. and on the last 1-2 miles of the ride i had it going close to full throttle and it kept lightly jerking me forwards and back, as if I was lightly pressing and releasing the brakes. is my whole scooter dying or something?

kooky scientist · Post by **kooky scientist** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:52 pm

It's definitely not temp related @ 50-60 degrees. Sounds either like bad gas or clogging in the fuel line. There is a fuel filter in there. Maybe that is clogged bad. Keep troubleshooting...

Lokky · Post by **Lokky** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:53 pm

try putting in a new spark plug and see if the spark plug cap isn't corroded.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:56 pm

Not that I'm an expert, but it really sounds like the engine just needs cleaning. If Seafoam isn't making a difference, I'd take to the shop.

kooky scientist · Post by **kooky scientist** » Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:59 pm

You haven't stated how old your scooter is and how many miles you have on it. If you ride a lot like I do, after 2 years I got a new battery and a new ignition coil. Sorted out all my problems with those two things. These things go after a while so don't expect them to last forever. They are maintenance issues that are easily sorted out. Once you figure it out and fix the problem your scooter should be back to normal. Buddy's are fairly predictable. Be thankful that it's not made in China otherwise you'd go insane trying to figure out the problem. Hang in there...

kooky scientist · Post by **kooky scientist** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:01 am

Oh yes, and spark plugs. Always put in a new spark plug and then start troubleshooting.

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:32 am

i had a new sparkplug put in nov 10th.

the scooter is an 07 i think, but i got it in 08 with ~170 miles and its now up to ~6950 miles (with like 100-300 miles when odometer cable came loose)

I've basically been running the scooter full throttle for the life of the scooter.(I should have bought a buddy 150)
I've never used seafoam, I bought some online today.
not sure what the ignition coil is,
my scooter was stolen 2 years ago and i had a new ignition put in

I'll forward all the info to my mechanic and see what he suggests. can you guys think of any other stuff that might need replacing due to having 7000 miles on it?

also,, if something needs to be replaced.. any replacement ideas that could squeeze a few more mph or increase accel? I did the 70cc upgrade and the slider weights with bad results, went back to stock

kooky scientist · Post by **kooky scientist** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:54 am

You may be approaching a new cylinder kit with your mileage also.

kooky scientist · Post by **kooky scientist** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:00 am

Ignition coil is the wires that go from the battery/engine to the spark plug.

Looks like this, although there are other types.

http://www.scooterworks.com/Direct-Igni ... 13630.aspx

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:49 am

$62 YIKES!.. i'll try that last =p

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:31 am

Just look at and around the coil for loose or frayed wires. Also make sure the spark plug cap is threaded tight onto the wire. Your local mechanic can show you how. The constant "jerking" sounds like an electrical issue or bad gas.
Have you found the float bowl screw on the carb and drained the float bowl yet (remove the water)?

agrogod · Post by **agrogod** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:30 am

Has the fuel filter ever been checked/replaced?

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:20 pm

agrogod wrote:Has the fuel filter ever been checked/replaced?

I wasn't aware that there was a fuel filter on these scooters.

I'd wait to take it in till I'd run some seafoam through it but by 7K I'm sure if you haven't already you need a new belt, new rollers, new battery (I'd put a larger battery in than the crap 3ah battery that comes in the Buddy 50). Also, I'm sure the air filter needs a good cleaning if not replacing. It's possible that you need the engine rebuilt but seems like folks get closer to 10k out of 2Ts before needing this done.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:25 pm

jasondavis48108 wrote:It's possible that you need the engine rebuilt but seems like folks get closer to 10k out of 2Ts before needing this done.

Is 13K "getting close"?

robby · Post by **robby** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:21 pm

This screams carb buildup to me. I clean my carb every late fall (I ride all winter) to avoid this exact problem.

agrogod · Post by **agrogod** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:11 pm

jasondavis48108 wrote:
agrogod wrote:Has the fuel filter ever been checked/replaced?
I wasn't aware that there was a fuel filter on these scooters....

I was having a little sputtering earlier this year and a new filter (fuel) cleared it right up. Since the 2T 50's have similar engines I would think there is a fuel filter somewhere in the mix on the Buddy. If there isn't a filter somewhere inline then I would also have to second robby's suggestion of a carb cleaning/rebuild. As I have stated in other post's, always start with the simple and work up from there.

Dharma Bum · Post by **Dharma Bum** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:06 pm

You describe a problem identical to a problem my Buddy 50 developed once the weather turned cold. My Buddy has less than 900 miles, lives in the garage, I keep the battery well-charged and installed a new iridium plug in the fall. Nonetheless, once winter came to Chicago, it became impossible to start off a freshly charged battery, hard to kick start, stalled at stop lights and required constant gunning of the throttle. It would run better for a short time when I waited a minute or so to restart (perhaps allowing the automatic choke to reset), but after a minute or so, it would sputter or stall again.

I think I fixed the problem; at least it has gone away. Apparently, I was a serious over-user of Sea Foam. I probably put in way too much -- about 1/4 to 1/3 can or more every fill up. My last fill up I used no Sea Foam and, after one ride (long enough to get the new gas into the carb), the problem completely cleared up. Although she's a a little bit harder to start in sub-freezing weather, she starts after two or three tries off the electric starter and kick starts on the first or second try. And she no longer stalls or sputters.

Maybe the Sea Foam dislodged some gunk into the jets that coincidentally worked its way out after my fill-up. Maybe the Sea Foam to gas ratio was too high and gave me bad combustion until it was reduced (my favorite theory). Maybe it had nothing to do with the Sea Foam and the simple act of removing the gas cap to fill up resolved a vapor lock. But I'm pretty sure my over use of Sea Foam in the pretty new, clean, well-maintained 50cc engine of my Buddy was the root of my problem. Don't get me wrong. I'm still a true believer in Sea Foam. I use it in every internal combustion engine I have, and they all seem to benefit (particularly an ancient 2-cycle, 15hp, oil/gas mix saildrive engine on our boat). But, notwithstanding what I believed in the 1960's, too much has its own bad consequences. Or maybe not.

KABarash · Post by **KABarash** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:31 pm

Dharma Bum wrote: Apparently, I was a serious over-user of Sea Foam. I probably put in way too much -- about 1/4 to 1/3 can or more every fill up.

Sounds like you got it right (now)...... Recommended dose of 'Sea-Foam' is one to two ounces per gallon.
Over dosing, you were running on the Sea-Foam not gas......

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:48 am

A little more of my experience, for what it's worth:

I haven't been able to ride due to road conditions for a few days now. The battery's been Tenderized, but I couldn't get even a cough out of the engine this noon, whether by electric or kick start. The temp was in the upper 30sF. I brought the scooter inside, figuring it was time to do that for the winter. But the afternoon was sunny (albeit still cold) and the roads were dry, so a few hours later I brought the scooter (warmed by about 30 degrees) back out. The start was rough, but it went on the first push of the button. It took a few starts before it kept going without stalling, but this was definitely a big improvement over when it was cold. I rode it several miles without trouble; hopefully the SeaFoam in the tank was going some good.

Snow is again forecast for the next few days, so the scoot's back indoors. First stop when the snow melts in a few months will probably be the shop for a proper cleaning.

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:00 pm

if this helps any,
when my scooter is on the bottom stand and it seems to run fine, when i take it off the stand it dies

taking it in tomorrow for filter change and carb clean

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:15 am

slusher5 wrote:if this helps any,
when my scooter is on the bottom stand and it seems to run fine, when i take it off the stand it dies

taking it in tomorrow for filter change and carb clean

I'm almost certain I've read of this symptom before and the issue was electrical. I'll try to search for it, as it may not have been on MB.

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:31 pm

well now i'm $90 poorer and it's still broken

had one of the filters changed cuz it was dirty, had the carb cleaned he said it wasn't that dirty though, had spark plug changed cuz he said it was wet, he fixed the kick start because it wouldn't return after being kicked

it looked like he had it working, when he brought it out gave it a test run it seemed like it was fixed, but he came back to the shop and sat it idling and seeing if it would stop.. he sat off the seat and it stopped, he started it up again and would stop mostly when he got off the bike.. he thinks it might be a loose connection or something cause the body panels have been taken off numerous times and something might have come loose... the scooter was also crashed a like 3 months ago that might of done something, but for a month or so after the crash it was working fine

im bout to give up and save for a new scooter unless you guys have more ideas

edit--
and when it manage to keep it running long enough to get on the road, it sounds awful, bogged down or something, and it will pop

also, my battery wasn't dead, he fixed a bad terminal or something

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:25 pm

ericalm wrote:
slusher5 wrote:if this helps any,
when my scooter is on the bottom stand and it seems to run fine, when i take it off the stand it dies

taking it in tomorrow for filter change and carb clean
I'm almost certain I've read of this symptom before and the issue was electrical. I'll try to search for it, as it may not have been on MB.

Could it be this thread finished by this one?

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:25 am

Where is the vapor canister?
what tube is that and does it need to be replaced?

I'm just a regular person when it comes to engines, but all the connections appeared intact(that i could spot, i only took the bucket seat out and looked around), only thing that bothered me was that tube. I also changed the exhaust packing, might help some?

agrogod · Post by **agrogod** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:45 am

^ I see the fuel filter and it doesn't look new.

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:58 pm

he changed the air filter I think

agrogod · Post by **agrogod** » Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:43 pm

^ A simple tune-up should include air,oil,gas filter replacement, new spark plug, check the plug wire for any damage/corrosion and repair/replace as necessary, check fuel lines for damage and repair/replace if needed, check battery and terminals. Just doing one thing means something else could/may be giving you poor performance. a good maintenance schedule will save you lots of future grief.

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:00 am

I was assuming my mechanic knew what my bike needed.. I don't know much about engines other than what I read here.

I dropped it off at another bike shop which might have a better mechanic.. should have it back monday

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:16 pm

bout to go pick my scooter up,, they say it is fixed, the problem was a bad/fried ignition coil

Modern Buddy

need help,, buddy 50 stalling/sputtering

need help,, buddy 50 stalling/sputtering

Vapor lock?

Sea Foam -- Too much of a good thing

Re: Sea Foam -- Too much of a good thing