How much can a 125/150 take?

Swordsman · Post by **Swordsman** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:59 pm

Okay, I've been poking around for awhile now, mostly over on the Blur side of the forum. My current bike (the Ural in my avatar) gets pretty crappy mpg: 30, and a cruising speed of about 60 mph. It's a blast to play with, but not quite the commuter I had hoped it would be (I admit, I was being a bit delusional when I bought it).

Anyhoo, the Buddy just keeps popping into my head. I LOVE the styling, and the fuel economy would do wonders for my monthly bills. I'm hoping I can dredge up some spare funds sometime soon and add another small displacement bike to my stable.

My quandary: my commute is 25 miles one way of wide open road. It's a country highway, so speed isn't really the issue here. I'm more concerned about how a 150cc or smaller engine would withstand a rather extended commute at near top speed. Can Buddies handle this day in and day out, or would I be asking for some mechanical issues?

~SM

Raiderfn311 · Post by **Raiderfn311** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:13 pm

As long as you break the engine in correctly, the Buddy125/150 will cruise at 55mph to and fro no problems. Cool Ural BTW. Dont forget the Buddy 170i. If I were buying a new one for that commute, I'd get the 170i.

Howardr · Post by **Howardr** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:47 pm

The Buddy can take take it. I've put my Buddy through much worse torture than that. As long as you don't need to go 75mph on your drive, you will be fine.

Howard

kmrcstintn · Post by **kmrcstintn** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:58 pm

I have developed a sequence with the throttle so that I avoid riding wide open throttle for extended periods of time/long distances; instead of just hammering it and opening the throttle all the way, I will gradually rev up and reduce the throttle a bit, then repeat several times until I reach my targeted speed and I only do wide open throttle on hills; if I can't avoid WOT then I will pull off and shut down the engine and let it cool for a few minutes;

use quality lubricants in the engine & rear hub and change them on a regular basis (as well as oil filter); use fuel system cleaner intermittently, use ethanol treatment, keep tires inflated properly, check air filter & spark plug at recommended intervals...basically, good and concise maintenance is your scooter's insurance policy to keep it going day to day

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:22 pm

No problem for the Buddy.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:48 pm

Well, I have a Ural and a Buddy and 2 or 3 other rides so I have some perspective on your situation. True that a Ural yields somewhat modest mpg - mine gets closer to 40 mpg but that is mainly due to having the higher ratio rear hub. Mostly the Ural is a pack mule. Put a monkey in the hack and fill the trunk and rear rack with whatever junk you like - it still plods along pretty much the same. A Buddy will definitely yield much higher mpg and will be lower maintenance. And yes, it is certainly capable of a 25 mile daily commute on two lane roads. Having said that, it would not be my choice for that task. I would pick a ride with somewhat more power, weight, and stability. A 250 or larger scooter would be my pick. The GTS Vespa does that sort of thing nicely as does the Piaggio Beverly. Kymco and Sym make bikes in this range and there is the Genuine Blur as well. There are a lot of bikes in this world - and a lot of uses for them. Just be sure you match up one with the other.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:17 am

If you have an SYM dealer nearby, talk to him about the distributor support in GA and definitely look at the HD200. It's not 200cc, but it outruns most 200's out there, and will run at 60+ all day long. I absolutely loved mine. Price on the new models is very nice too.

Raiderfn311 · Post by **Raiderfn311** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:03 am

Don't forget about the Genuine Cruiser!

Honestly though, Genuine needs to fill that F-ing hole!!!! I dont want to drop $7k+ on a Vespa GTS300 dammit!! Phil! Phil! Phillllllllllll................

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:39 am

Raiderfn311 wrote:I dont want to drop $7k+ on a Vespa GTS300 dammit!!

Well, I got my 250 GTS for $4500 new. Worth every penny! (Now how much was that mythical Genuine Cruiser going to cost again?

)

bluebuddygirl · Post by **bluebuddygirl** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:42 am

That is almost my exact commuter mileage, that or a little more depending on exact destination. I have a 125 and it handles it just fine.

pugbuddy · Post by **pugbuddy** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:44 am

I go about 13 miles each way on my Buddy and it handles it like a dream. I've also ridden cross-country at WOT for 6-8 hours a day going to AV and such and it's never been an issue.

However, after 4 years and 18,000 miles of that, I had to replace the engine....

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:02 am

kmrcstintn wrote:I have developed a sequence with the throttle so that I avoid riding wide open throttle for extended periods of time/long distances; instead of just hammering it and opening the throttle all the way, I will gradually rev up and reduce the throttle a bit, then repeat several times until I reach my targeted speed and I only do wide open throttle on hills; if I can't avoid WOT then I will pull off and shut down the engine and let it cool for a few minutes;

This is (sort of) what's called "feathering the throttle." One idiosyncrasy of the CVT transmission is that you might be able to get to higher sustained speeds by not keeping the throttle all the way wide open. I've hit top speeds on auto scooters at less than WOT.

See: topic12360.html

But will this reduce wear on the engine? Not wby much. You'll only spare the engine by greatly reducing RPMs or heat. If you're doing a sustained 50-55+ MPH then however much you vary it while maintaining that speed probably won't do much good.

If you're doing a lot of riding at the scooter's limits, it's generally a good idea to shorten your maintenance intervals, as you'll wear through things faster. but on a stock 125 or 150 that's well-maintained, I don't think sustained periods of WOT riding will shorten the life of the scooter by much.

Swordsman · Post by **Swordsman** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:41 pm

Thanks for all the info!

The 170i is cool, but I really like the idea of carbs. It's one of the reasons I ditched my sportbike and got a Ural. I want something simple that I can work on myself, without having to plug it up to a frikkin' computer. As much as I like electronics, I find myself beginning to rebel against them, especially when it comes to transportation. Guess I'm getting old!

The other choice I'm juggling is a used Buell Blast, which is a small 500cc single cylinder motorcycle. Ugly as homemade sin, but tops out close to 90 mph and with a stock setup is capable of nearly 65 mpg. Many engine parts interchange with a H-D Sportster, so availability shouldn't be an issue (Buell was discontinued as a brand about 2 years ago). The Blast is incredibly practical, but about as bland a bike as you could ask for. I really, really like unusual stuff, so it makes it hard to decide! (Then again, I kinda' need the money first, don't I?

)

Here's a pic of the Blast. Most for sale around here are early to mid 2000 models, and cost around $2000 +/-. Which would you prefer?

~SM

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:48 pm

Swordsman wrote:Which would you prefer?

I know which one looks more comfortable to sit on.

RoadRambler · Post by **RoadRambler** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:48 pm

Door #2 for me, Wayne!

but that's just based on personal preference. I'm guessing both would be good, solid, practical rides -- but the BJ would also be so much fun!

Actually, I don't know squat about the Blast, but that looks like a good all rounder type of bike.

bgwss · Post by **bgwss** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:43 pm

Your polling audience is a little biased I would say . . . Black jack!

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:58 pm

Another for the blackjack.

If I went motorcycle I'd get something in (near anyway) the scooter motor range. An old 60's or 70's japanese 180-350 like a honda dream or a 2-stroke scrambler like my old yamaha ycs1c.

Swordsman · Post by **Swordsman** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:49 pm

bgwss wrote:Your polling audience is a little biased I would say . . . Black jack!

Heh, yeah, I figured.

As far as Genuine is concerned, the Blur 220 probably would still be the best bet for what I need a scoot to do. They're just a tad out of my range though, even used. IF I could get together any funds, it'd have to be right around the $2k mark.

Normally it wouldn't be a problem, but I still have 2 years left to pay on the Ural. Priorities, and all that.

~SM

Tam Tam · Post by **Tam Tam** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 1:10 am

I like the blackjack! I have one, and approx. 1 outta 5 20 mile commutes I make is on i-35 at 60-65mph (I'm 220 lbs). I do end up at WOT, but despite being all the way, the scooter doesn't feel like it's gonna explode. And there is something to be said about 'feathering the throttle'. Most times I cruise at 55mph, leaving me with a touch more speed should I need it.

ilektron · Post by **ilektron** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:46 pm

Swordsman wrote:Thanks for all the info!

The 170i is cool, but I really like the idea of carbs. It's one of the reasons I ditched my sportbike and got a Ural. I want something simple that I can work on myself, without having to plug it up to a frikkin' computer.

masochist...

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:08 pm

As someone who rides both a Buddy (170i) and a HD Sportster 1200L, I would say it really depends on what you plan to do with the bike aside from driving to and from work everyday. They are both great bikes for what they are, but what matters is your intentions for them. Also, I've ridden a friend's Buell Blast and it was, indeed, a blast. Not the most comfortable thing in the world though, especially if you are going for rides longer than 45 minutes without a chance to stop and stretch out.
Your concern seemed to be more about the gas mileage though, and obviously the Buddy is going to take the cake there, like I said in one of the other recent threads, I'll take my day-to-day 80-95mpg over the 50-65mpg of the Sportster any day.

In my opinion, it's great to have both. I ride my scooter to work, to run errands, go the gym, and I have taken it on some longer trips, but it still leaves a little to be desired in regards to speed and stability at high speed. I like to have the option to ride a bike that has that extra oomph one might need that comes with a larger engine, is a bit heavier and has larger wheels, in addition to my beloved Buddy.

Swordsman · Post by **Swordsman** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:12 pm

Yeah, the whole 2nd bike thing is strictly from a commuter standpoint. I think any time I was just out joyriding or visiting on the weekends, I'd probably be taking the Ural.

Weird coincidence: I was just talking to a guy I work with who owns a ridiculously pimped out V-star cruiser about upcoming riding weather. Turns out, he has two virtually new Buddy 150s, and he wants to sell one! He got them both last year, and they were previous year models. Less than 150 miles on both. I think I could probably get it for a hair over $2k.

Dangit, where's my Enchanted Wallet of Plentifulness?

~SM

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:49 pm

i think buddy can handle it. its a tough, durable scoot. 150cc for more top end imo. or 170 if you can stretch your dollar or find a bargain

funny the whole speed / performance thing between scoots and cycles. now that i have been riding longer (18 months) i finally "get it." even in traffic having a good amount of acceleration is good. especially when lane splitting and dodging cars. so small is good

but my 125cc is sometimes not adequate for the job

kmrcstintn · Post by **kmrcstintn** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:43 am

The other choice I'm juggling is a used Buell Blast, which is a small 500cc single cylinder motorcycle. Ugly as homemade sin, but tops out close to 90 mph and with a stock setup is capable of nearly 65 mpg. Many engine parts interchange with a H-D Sportster, so availability shouldn't be an issue (Buell was discontinued as a brand about 2 years ago). The Blast is incredibly practical, but about as bland a bike as you could ask for. I really, really like unusual stuff, so it makes it hard to decide! (Then again, I kinda' need the money first, don't I? )

Here's a pic of the Blast. Most for sale around here are early to mid 2000 models, and cost around $2000 +/-. Which would you prefer?

my other mode of 'two-wheeled death machines' (a term of endearment a coworker uses sometimes) besides my Buddy 125 is a used 2008 Buell Blast...there are a few quirks and shortcomings to consider (and I like my Blast):

1) the auto choke & idle are strange; sometimes when the temps are in the 40's or low 50's the idle revs really high until the engine warms up a bit and sometimes it can cut off when the idle drops to the factory standard 1200 rpm when your carb is dirty or your gas is old

2) windshield & fairing choices are very limited...I haven't found a Buell Blast direct fit windshield in the 5 months I have owned my Blast;

3) you have to block the rear tire or stand on the kickstand while warming up the Blast...the high idle makes the bike walk backwards due to the torque

4) the transmission is a 'clunker' especially when shifting into 1st gear from neutral...it's a Harley variant and they are known to go clunk

5) the Blast eats oil and you should carry extra on long trips

6) oil gets redistributed into the air box/mouth of carbeurator to be reburned and can create a slick mess inside the airbox which needs to be cleaned up from time to time (especially true if engine oil is overfilled)

7) lack of gas guage makes you wary and you have to check gas level alot more often than if it had a guage...you have to 'guesst-timate' once you learn the bike's MPG to get it close

there is a rubber tube that runs between the carbeurator & intake manifold that can wear out or crack and this causes all sorts of engine woes since the flow of air become erratic

if my finances were better I would trade my Buell on a good used Sportster, yet a paid off Blast is better than 19% interest on a loan to get the Sportster I want; shop around and choose wisely (make sure you have a Buell participating dealer near you if you plan on getting H-D's extended coverage plan)

Swordsman · Post by **Swordsman** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:47 am

kmrcstintn, thanks for that info. I'm somewhat familiar with some of those "issues", having been a Buell owner in the past ('06 Lightning). The "walking" on the sidestand is pretty funny!

I went and test rode my coworker's St. Tropez. That was a very different ride than what I'm used to! It only had 39 miles on it (I added another 10), so I know the engine is still a bit tight. The thing I found most interesting is that it felt slow, but actually wasn't. After double checking my speed vs. my Ural, it's just as fast (up to ~55 mph). But the sensation was completely different. I guess that must be the CVT, which I've never dealt with before. I weigh 180, and it did a decent job scooting me around some relatively hilly terrain at 50-55 mph, but it took 90-100% throttle to do so. It was a fun trip, but honestly, I think it's just shy of what I need for my commute. A 200 cc would probably be perfect. Or maybe that 170i.

No matter, my wife reminded me I have no money. Unless I sell my Ural, a scooter ain't happening.

~SM

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:49 pm

Swordsman wrote: It was a fun trip, but honestly, I think it's just shy of what I need for my commute. A 200 cc would probably be perfect. Or maybe that 170i.

I'll say it once more, then I'll shut up. Test ride a 250 Vespa.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:08 pm

Dooglas wrote:
Swordsman wrote: It was a fun trip, but honestly, I think it's just shy of what I need for my commute. A 200 cc would probably be perfect. Or maybe that 170i.
I'll say it once more, then I'll shut up. Test ride a 250 Vespa.

Ditto on the SYM HD200

Swordsman · Post by **Swordsman** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:57 pm

Eh, I'm really partial to Genuine, for no good reason. I'd be more likely to go with Sym than Vespa. I simply don't get their prices. I could buy a helluva lot more bike (scooter, motorcycle, you name it) for what they're asking.

Again, this is all moot since I have no cash.

~SM

Plisar · Post by **Plisar** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:00 pm

The Piaggio line is reasonable, but once you get into the Vespas, you are definitely paying a premium for beauty and history. They are awesome.

synaps3 · Post by **synaps3** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:50 pm

My Buddy 125 tops out around 70mph, but I never cruise past 55.

I think your assumption that something larger than 200ccs would be more well-suited to the job is a good assumption. While the Buddy can cruise at that speed, you don't have much power to escape a tight situation.

One of the guys in a scooter group I ride with sometimes is trying to sell a Piaggio BV250 (2008, $2500) and an Aprilia Sporcity 250 (2007, $2000). Both are in great shape, here's a pic:

Send me a PM and I'll send you his contact info if you're interested!

Swordsman · Post by **Swordsman** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:56 pm

*sigh*

My wife and bookkeeper has put a firm nail in my scooter coffin.

~SM

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:04 pm

Swordsman wrote:*sigh*

My wife and bookkeeper has put a firm nail in my scooter coffin.

~SM

well, if it's something you really want, then save for it next year!

scootavaran · Post by **scootavaran** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:18 pm

Swordsman wrote:*sigh*

My wife and bookkeeper has put a firm nail in my scooter coffin.

~SM

Ouch that sucks man.
But if you look at the bright side if you start saving for a bike later on your choices of which bike you can afford would expand!

Swordsman · Post by **Swordsman** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:26 am

Yeah, that's kinda' the plan. I have a little side project that could net me some cash over time... guess I need to get a little more serious about it. It's one of those things where, no, I don't really NEED a scooter, but it would be very beneficial over the long haul. At current gas prices ($3.69 locally), I would save roughly $5+ every day I rode the scooter instead of driving my car ('08 Mustang GT). The fun factor is just a bonus.

~SM

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:42 am

Swordsman wrote:At current gas prices ($3.69 locally), I would save roughly $5+ every day I rode the scooter instead of driving my car ('08 Mustang GT).

Is the Mustang fully paid for?

Keep in mind that you will be buying another vehicle, so won't actually be saving anything until you make the purchase price back. A scooter requires much more frequent maintenance than a car. You will be insuring another vehicle and paying registration on another vehicle. When gas prices spiked in 2008, it took them a mere 3 months to fall from their high to a 10-year low, meaning that when gas falls again, you'll be saving much less and it will take you much longer to save the cost of owning a scooter.

If you don't own the Mustang outright and are making payments, you will be paying off and paying for insurance, registration, inspections (if required in your state), etc. for a vehicle you're not driving.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't get a scooter, just that many people don't account for all factors when they estimate their "savings."

Swordsman · Post by **Swordsman** » Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:38 pm

ericalm wrote:
Swordsman wrote:At current gas prices ($3.69 locally), I would save roughly $5+ every day I rode the scooter instead of driving my car ('08 Mustang GT).
Is the Mustang fully paid for?

Keep in mind that you will be buying another vehicle, so won't actually be saving anything until you make the purchase price back. A scooter requires much more frequent maintenance than a car. You will be insuring another vehicle and paying registration on another vehicle. When gas prices spiked in 2008, it took them a mere 3 months to fall from their high to a 10-year low, meaning that when gas falls again, you'll be saving much less and it will take you much longer to save the cost of owning a scooter.

If you don't own the Mustang outright and are making payments, you will be paying off and paying for insurance, registration, inspections (if required in your state), etc. for a vehicle you're not driving.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't get a scooter, just that many people don't account for all factors when they estimate their "savings."

Very good points. Probably would make more sense to pay off all my other toys first, huh?

~SM

Modern Buddy

How much can a 125/150 take?

How much can a 125/150 take?

my choice?