With gas going up....

[michelle_7728]

One of the "savings" I look at is yes the scooters cost money here and there, but by riding them, and shelling out money periodically, I am able to keep my car for seldom occassions, vs regular driving, so it will hopefully be a loooonnnng time before I ever have to shell out big bucks to replace it.

I saved up and bought my Corolla new in 2004 (yeah, I know it's not the wisest thing to buy new, due to depreciation, but I had the new car bug), and I'm still around 45,000 for miles on it (I just started riding in 2009). I know there are folks out there with less miles on their vehicles, but here in the Seattle area, it is not uncommon to see a 6 year old car with over 100K on it. Me, I was putting about 6,500 miles a year on it when I was driving it all the time.

BUT, that's not why I bought the scooter. It is just plain fun to ride. All the other pluses are icing on the cake to me.

[JHScoot]

With respect, I'm not sure I agree w/your logic on this. I just quickly tallied up a little cost analysis of my car ('99 VW New Beetle, 5 sp @ ~ 30 mpg) vs. my scooter ('07 Honda Metropolitan @ ~95 mpg) factoring in insurance costs, maintenance and repair, purchase price, registration, inspection and incidentals (which really only come into play w/the scoot - riding gear) for the last 5 years. I bought my scooter new w/2 miles on it from the dealer in April of '08. I bought my car used w/65,000 miles on it in '06. I have full coverage insurance on both vehicles. My daily commute is currently ~35 miles one way, and yes I ride a 50cc scooter for the commute.

TOTALS ('08-'12) Beetle $13,010 Metro $4,064

This is by no means scientific in any way, shape or form. Even if you only take into consideration the money that I've saved in gas ($810), that's enough to cover all of the work that I've had done on the brakes on the Beetle in the past year! If I didn't have the scoot and had put those 9000 miles on the Beetle instead, I feel pretty certain that w/gas and maintenance and repairs, I would have come close to the $4,064 that I have spent total on the Metro.

i think what Admin is saying is many people spend thousands on a scooter and ride it just part time. and end up riding it not at all. especially if purchased to save on gas. now if you just get a cheap little scoot and putt around town 10 miles a day i am sure its cheaper then maintaining a car. and to buy, of course. much cheaper overall cost of ownership

but you know, people buy $5,000 scooters they can barely ride to save a bit of money on gas. they keep the car, drive the car, sell the scoot at a loss

people, just don't do it!

I totally agree about people thinking that a scooter is going to save them butloads of money. And hey, I only ride my scoot part time....I live in PA, riding season for me is basically April thru mid November and I also have a car and a restoration project ('87 VW Vanagon). I have no plans on giving up either car.
Saving money on gas wasn't my only reason for buying a scoot, but it was one of the reasons. I always wanted one (the old guy across the street from us growing up had an old Vespa that he occassionally rode). I came into a little bit of money, and took the plunge...now I can't imagine NOT having a scooter.
The savings in gas alone over the summer is actually quite noticeble to me. ~$10/wk on the scooter as opposed to ~$60/wk in the car. That's enough to scoot to the brew pub and down a few good beers and some lunch once a week!

bam! and the bolded is the main difference between you and many others who never even thought about it b4 gas prices soar

you just needed a little....push

if anyone asks me if they should ride to save money i will tell them "no. find another way to save money"

but if they say "you know i always wanted to ride, and now with gas prices..." i would say 'well if you want to RIDE, by all means...ride! you might even save a few bucks on gas"

[Mutt the Hoople]

Interesting debate. While I understand what you are saying regarding that you may not be saving as much money as you thought you would when you offset maintenance and insurance versus what you spend on gas, there is another angle that hasnt quite been touched on yet.
I decided to finally take the plunge to get a scooter not just to save money on gas but to save gas, i.e. to be more ecological. To not just save money but to help to save our resources. I already walked a lot but some things are just not that plausible... Trying to lug groceries home on food etc. I have. Ever been one to buy into the car culture. I take care of my cars and keep them for a very long time, but when I can avoid driving, I do. So I just got 50cc Buddy as I live in the city and the roads I am on are 35mph or less. I have a small sedan that took a bit over $50 to fill it the last two times and a full tank of gas lasts just about one week. The scooter takes less than $5 a week and I have already been surprised by how many errands I have been able to do on it. And yes, it is definitely more fun.
The real shocker though, is how much TIME I save when I doing errands in the city. Things I used to hate and put off are now almost fun. Trying to find parking places ... I spent more time and gas driving around and around trying to find parking places, then worrying if the meter would expire while trying to get everything done..... And nothing ruins your day and your mood like a parking ticket. The first time I used my scooter for city errands and used an hour or more less in time I thought was a complete fluke, the second time I found it interesting and by the third it felt pretty conststent. Plus, given that I don't have a full-time job at the moment, I want to save wear and tear on my car.
You are correct in saying that when everything is considered that it takes longer than one might expect for the scooter to pay for itself and save money in that sense, but that is a very literal viewpoint. I am really enjoying the freedom and convenience. I have found neighborhoods and privately owned retail places that I never knew where there, and also some great little grocery stores with locally grown produce and such which helps take care of my other big beef... Giant grocery chains with food from who knows what source and sprayed with god knows what.

Now my only big fear is drivers on cell phones, or worse, driving and eating while on the cell phone. Yikes!!!

[TVB]

Over 53,000 miles, you're also looking at:

Don't forget to factor in the money not spent on maintenance of the car because you didn't put those 53,000 miles on it.

[TVB]

One of the "savings" I look at is yes the scooters cost money here and there, but by riding them, and shelling out money periodically, I am able to keep my car for seldom occassions, vs regular driving, so it will hopefully be a loooonnnng time before I ever have to shell out big bucks to replace it.

My car has been inching up to 100K miles the last few years. If not for my scooter, it'd be well over that milestone. To be honest, I've never really liked this car (it was a need-it-now purchase when I didn't have money to spend, and I didn't want to borrow) but I intend to keep it for a long time this way.

[KABarash]

For me, I am constantly trying to convince myself of the validity of the choice, scooter or car. I absolutely love riding, 80ish MPGs better than the 18-20ish MPGs I get with my Jeep.
Geeze, when I bought the Jeep gas was less than $1/gal 18years and 220,000 miles later I'm cringing every time I fill it up.
The scoot, well every time I fill that up I think to myself the savings in fuel alone have paid for my gear and I think, but don't know for sure, that it's paid for itself by now.
Heck, I bought it as a 'mid life crises' thing when I turned 49......
Was it worth it??
All these folks now going out to purchase scooters now because of the spike in fuel prices think they're saving but in all actuality it'll take a couple years to recoup the costs and only then the 'saving' kicks in, WILL they wait that long?

[pdxrita]

Well, you're certainly looking at the high end with those numbers. Since I'm a cheapskate, I'm learning how to do most of that myself, so the costs are a lot less.

"It saves money if you do all your own maintenance and repair" is a pretty crappy sales pitch. The average buyers looking to save money aren't intending to do all the work on their scooter themselves. The reason I started wrenching was that I was racking up miles so fast I couldn't afford to keep paying someone else for regular maintenance. I think that's true for many of us, because the more we ride, the more it costs.

I've found doing that work to be very rewarding, but it's not something I set out to do when I bought a scooter.

I think the crux of our difference of opinion here is, who is the "average person" looking to buy a scooter? I'd venture that, in order to even go so far as to consider taking the plunge and buying a scooter, one has to be a bit more adventurous, and perhaps a bit more crazy, than your average person. Of the immediate 60 or so co-workers I have, I'm the only one who rides a scooter (or a motorcycle, for that matter). So in order to even take that leap, you're probably a bit of a frontiersman to begin with. You might not set out with doing your own maintenance in mind, but you might be more inclined towards doing it once you realize what the cost is. After all, we're starting with the assumption that saving money was your motivation for buying the scooter in the first place.

[michelle_7728]

I never had thought of myself as a "frontierswoman" before.

[ericalm]

Over 53,000 miles, you're also looking at:

Don't forget to factor in the money not spent on maintenance of the car because you didn't put those 53,000 miles on it.

I'm not at all! I'm just saying the two need to be compared and that when comparing, it's important to know that a scooter needs much more frequent maintenance.

Amount I spent maintaining my car in the just over 20K miles I put on it in 4 years: $0. Of course, I was paying a monthly bill for a 2008 car. So it was costing me more.

My point here is that many people aren't realistic and don't consider everything in estimating their costs and savings. While gas topped $4/gallon in 2008, it was under $2.50/gallon for much of the year and under $2/gallon for the last quarter (national averages).

[TVB]

I'm just saying the two need to be compared and that when comparing, it's important to know that a scooter needs much more frequent maintenance.

I've spent as much on maintenance of my car in the past three years as I have on my scooter (which I've put many more miles on). And that includes the purchase price of the scooter. Perhaps that's a little unfair a comparison, because my car is getting on in miles, but that's been my experience.

[out18law18]

Just an observation...where I work there I have spotted two scooters that i havent seen before in the last couple of weeks. Im not sure if they are new scooters or the owners have just started riding again because of the increase in fuel prices. Or it could just be the warm weather is back, however I am sure i did not see them last riding season.

[Swordsman]

Amount I spent maintaining my car in the just over 20K miles I put on it in 4 years: $0. Of course, I was paying a monthly bill for a 2008 car. So it was costing me more.

So.... was this a lease, or did you seriously never change the oil in your car?

~SM

[ericalm]

Amount I spent maintaining my car in the just over 20K miles I put on it in 4 years: $0. Of course, I was paying a monthly bill for a 2008 car. So it was costing me more.

So.... was this a lease, or did you seriously never change the oil in your car?

~SM

Oil changes covered by maintenance plan. And only needed every 12K or something like that. I did it twice in 20K.

[JHScoot]

I'm just saying the two need to be compared and that when comparing, it's important to know that a scooter needs much more frequent maintenance.

I've spent as much on maintenance of my car in the past three years as I have on my scooter (which I've put many more miles on). And that includes the purchase price of the scooter. Perhaps that's a little unfair a comparison, because my car is getting on in miles, but that's been my experience.

i don't have a cage but maintain one for my mother. because thats what good sons do when dad kicks it

anyway she has a 2008 Hyundai Elantra PZEV. thing to realize is just throw the service schedule out completely and don't go for those dealer sales specials and service specials. are we not men? do we not know a $15,000 car does not need a $650 service at 30,000m and $800 at 60,000m? of course we do!

keep the warranty in effect, you say? well they can't deny a claim if the repair required was NOT serviceable / service related. the warranty will be expired by the time anything worth spending money on requires repair

BUT, even with my maintenance streamlining it still costs. it has approx 42,000 miles last i checked, and 30,000 of those were put on by my mother. bought used in Dec 2009 for $14,500 including financing. out of pocket down payment was $800.

7 oil changes at approx $35 a piece - $210
Trans service - $175
Tires - $500
Front brakes - $140
Coolant Flush / Refill - $80

so, 30,000m of driving has cost a bit over $1100. this is WITHOUT the recommended service

i change all filters myself. dealer wants $150 to replace a $10 cabin air filter. takes 10 mins lol

plus $200 month on gas, and a $240 car payment for five years. and yes as you say, costs rise with age and miles. but cars are fairly trouble free these days when new(er), yeah. still can cost a bundle if not diligent, however

[SoCalScooter]

A big part of the savings using a scooter is from saving the wear and tear on your car... after all, each vehicle really only has a finite number of miles before it's a gonner.

I drive a VW Jetta TDI wagon, which on average, has returned 38 mpg since I bought it in April 2010... In stop and go traffic, I get about 35 mpg. The car cost approximately $30,000 after tax, title, etc. If I plan to drive this car for 250,000 miles, then my cost per mile is $0.12 ($30,000/250,000).

My Scooter is a 2009 SYM Citycom, which I purchased new at $3,495. I expect it to last till 40,000 miles. The cost of riding my scoot each mile is therefore $0.087 ($3,495/40,000) - 3.3 cents per mile savings over the car.

Additionally, by NOT driving my car, I can defer other expenses, such as the regular maintenance (Which I do at 10,000 miles, or 6 months, whichever comes first). And even further, I save money on my car insurance by driving less miles.

I do my own fluid changes, but will take it in for any "major service", plus it's nice to have it looked at by a professional from time to time...

Between the savings on fuel (~65mpg vs ~35mpg), the cost per mile savings ($280 per year for my commute), and the reduction of annual auto maintenance, and insurance costs, I've calculated that it will take about 2.33 years to break even, even considering gear purchase, additional scooter maintenance and licensing/insurance (maybe 2.4 years adding in the MSF class!)...

Still... since I use the scooter mainly to commute, the total miles in that 2 and 1/3 year should be right at 20,000; which means that I'll have another 2.33 years of pure savings before I expect this bike to have reached it's estimated retirement mileage.

At the same time, I've kept that 20,000-40,000 miles off the car and I have therefore extended it's useful life, which allows me to defer another large purchase and put more money into my retirement savings.

Of course, I'll probably blow all that savings on a new scooter when the time comes ... but hey, at least it's paying for itself, and allowing me to keep my car for longer!

[Southerner]

I think a scooter, particularly something like a Stella, is a better choice than a lot of motorcycles because it's comparatively simple and therefore more accessible for the average person to repair. After all, that was the original design conception for the Vespa and it's a good one, too. Too bad Piaggio didn't stick with it. Although motorcycles have always been more difficult to repair, when they became "powersports" equipment' i.e.: toys, the manufacturers knew repair and parts were a profit center they could exploit. After all,disposable income was used to purchase them in the first place, so why not milk it?

At least the manufacturers know that a lot of their scooter customers buy them to be everyday drivers.

More economic bits: My old second-hand Honda moto gets about twice the mpg as my car, which helps a great deal with a 50 mile round trip commute but tires and installation for the bike cost just as much as all four corners of my car and the car tires are 60K rated and my last set on the bike lasted 7K.

I ain't thinkin' about changing the tires on that lardy Honda but I just might tackle the job on a scooter that weighs half as much.

And I second the motion that the impulse purchasers should rush out and buy as many scooters as possible. It only increases my chances of finding a bargain.