Need help - scooter stops running in the middle of a ride

Jazzyful · Post by **Jazzyful** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:43 pm

Hi, I have a 2009 Buddy 125 with ~1200 miles on it.

The title pretty much says it. A bit of relevant background info:

I had recently accidentally left my key in the "on" position and drained the battery. My roommate has a charging thing that he let me recharge it on, and I then replaced the battery. Everything seemed to be running fine (no issues starting, etc.) and then in the middle of my ride, the scooter died. All I have to do is pull over to the side of the road and restart it and everything's fine, but it's pretty irritating.

I thought I might have put the battery back in badly, so I re-checked it and made sure everything was really secure, but the problem persists.

Any diagnosis? Thanks for your help.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:52 pm

How recently had you filled up with gas before it happened? Sounds like nothing more than vapor/vacuum lock to me. Do you have the vented gas cap on your scooter? If the problem happens again, open the gas cap. If you hear air being sucked in there is your answer. To help avoid this, remember to always leave an inch to spare when topping off the tank.

pdxrita · Post by **pdxrita** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:55 pm

Can you give some more information about the nature of the stall? Does it lose power and then die, or does the engine just cut out abruptly? Does it make any unusual sounds before it dies, backfiring, etc?

pdxrita · Post by **pdxrita** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:59 pm

Skootz Kabootz wrote:How recently had you filled up with gas before it happened? Sounds like nothing more than vapor/vacuum lock to me. Do you have the vented gas cap on your scooter? If the problem happens again, open the gas cap. If you hear air being sucked in there is your answer. To help avoid this, remember to always leave an inch to spare when topping off the tank.

I was going to guess that too, but decided to ask for more info before jumping to that conclusion.

If your cap isn't vented or drilled, you should just do it (IMHO). Here's a thread with a picture of how the cap should be drilled: viewtopic.php?t=15318

Post by **ericalm** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:05 pm

If the scooter's starting, the issue probably has nothing to do with the battery. You can run a Buddy without a battery at all. It might still be electrical if you're somehow losing spark.

Vapor lock, as Skootz and pdxrita indicated, is the most likely culprit in mysterious stall issues but there can be other causes. It's an easy enough fix, so that's a good place to start.

However, most users have trouble restarting after a vapor lock or will experience it a few times in succession.

ed85379 · Post by **ed85379** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:41 pm

Either vapor lock as others have said, or like when I had the problem persistently a few months back, it turned out to be a bad spark plug caused by a bad tank of gas. It was popping and then at high throttle I would suddenly lose power.

Jazzyful · Post by **Jazzyful** » Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:20 pm

Thanks for all the fast replies, guys. I will try the gas cap thing.

pdxrita wrote:Can you give some more information about the nature of the stall? Does it lose power and then die, or does the engine just cut out abruptly? Does it make any unusual sounds before it dies, backfiring, etc?

It loses power and then dies once I slow down enough. No unusual sounds at all.

pdxrita · Post by **pdxrita** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:16 am

Jazzyful wrote:Thanks for all the fast replies, guys. I will try the gas cap thing.

pdxrita wrote:Can you give some more information about the nature of the stall? Does it lose power and then die, or does the engine just cut out abruptly? Does it make any unusual sounds before it dies, backfiring, etc?
It loses power and then dies once I slow down enough. No unusual sounds at all.

Well, that mostly matches my experience with vapor lock. That's how mine died, anyhow. I did have some backfiring while riding as well, though. It seems like it manifests a bit differently for different people. For instance, I never got the air sucking effect when opening the gas cap that Skootz describes above. But after I drilled my cap, the problem went away and it's never come back.

Stormswift · Post by **Stormswift** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:35 am

My scooter had all of the above symptoms including backfire, loosing power at around 40 mph, etc I was sure it was a vapor lock based on what everyone said. I put Seafoam in and kept riding, taking care I left Ihouse early enough so that traffic was light. The problem went away. I never drilled the cap.....I am pretty sure it was bad gas orwinter gas that my scooter does not like. This time I am using Seafoam with every fuel up

Raiderfn311 · Post by **Raiderfn311** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:50 pm

^^^Two thumbs up. I treat every tank of gas with Startron/Stabil. My Buddy is very fickle when it comes to gas. Treating every tank is cheap insurance IMHO.

KABarash · Post by **KABarash** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:16 pm

Jazzyful wrote:Thanks for all the fast replies, guys. I will try the gas cap thing.

pdxrita wrote:Can you give some more information about the nature of the stall? Does it lose power and then die, or does the engine just cut out abruptly? Does it make any unusual sounds before it dies, backfiring, etc?
It loses power and then dies once I slow down enough. No unusual sounds at all.

If it is the dreaded vacuum/vapor lock, the guys at Genuine had once told me to try riding with the gas cap loose to see if that eliminates the issue.....
They just sent me a new, vented cap anyway.

theflash784 · Post by **theflash784** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:57 pm

I had the same thing happen to me yesterday while riding. I had done a few errands and was heading home. I went to give the scooter more throttle but it seemed to lose power. There was no back firing. I pulled over to the shoulder and it died all the way on me. I tried to restart it and then I remembered about the vapor lock issues. I opened the gas cap and let it vent for a bit and then it started right back up. I rode back home without further problems. This was my second ride of the season. I had filled the tank and treated it before putting the scooter up for the winter.

Jazzyful · Post by **Jazzyful** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:54 pm

Well this morning before I left the house to go running, I opened the gas cap for a bit and then screwed it back on. I also happened to need a new tank, so I filled up this morning too. I rode ~8 minutes away, did my run, and then came back. No problems that I can see so far! So I think that was probably the issue.

Thanks a lot for all of you who helped me. I probably would have wasted a bunch of time taking it in to the shop to have it checked out if I hadn't thought to post here first. :)

jd · Post by jd » Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:04 pm

It happened yesterday on our inaugural spring ride (the fuel gauge read completely empty, as it does when I'm only 2/3 through the tank) when suddenly I lost power, and I thought it was going to stall. I twisted the throttle back and forth a few times, and the power came back. I feared that I needed fuel and I was several miles away from a source, so I just kept riding with gritted teeth. Made it to the gas station with no additional problems and then squeezed in only a gallon of fuel.

Does this "vapor lock" issue tend to come up more frequently if the fuel level is low? I've only had this happen when the fuel gauge reads "Empty" (even though it isn't.)

jd

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:43 pm

jd wrote:Does this "vapor lock" issue tend to come up more frequently if the fuel level is low? I've only had this happen when the fuel gauge reads "Empty" (even though it isn't.)

What we usually call vapor lock is more accurately called vacuum lock. It happens most frequently when the gas is full—or overfull.

True vapor lock is less common but can happen when the tank is at any level. It's often affected by temperature changes.

How much is left in your tank when it gets close to empty and starts stalling/sputtering? Your tank will never be bone dry from riding it, just if you drain the gas out.

jd · Post by jd » Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:10 pm

There is a minimum of 0.5 gallon in it. The most I've ever been able to get in there is 1.1 gallons. So I'm hardly running on fumes.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:46 pm

jd wrote:There is a minimum of 0.5 gallon in it. The most I've ever been able to get in there is 1.1 gallons. So I'm hardly running on fumes.

Yup, but the fuel tap may not be working properly.

jd · Post by jd » Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:15 am

ericalm wrote:Yup, but the fuel tap may not be working properly.

Can you expand on that?

pdxrita · Post by **pdxrita** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:48 am

jd wrote:There is a minimum of 0.5 gallon in it. The most I've ever been able to get in there is 1.1 gallons. So I'm hardly running on fumes.

That's a pretty normal amount for a fairly empty tank. I've never gotten much more than 1.1 in mine either. The manual way overstates how big the tank is. As for the relationship between "vapor lock" and how full your tank is, my experience was that it started happening any time I got down below 1/4 tank or so. It would go away with a fill up, which made me think for a couple of weeks that I just had a batch of bad gas. But it kept coming back whenever I got low, until I drilled my cap.

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:57 am

jd wrote:
ericalm wrote:Yup, but the fuel tap may not be working properly.
Can you expand on that?

There's no fuel pump, just gravity. It's possible that if the tap is clogged or malfunctioning, when the tank is low there's not enough volume or pressure to get fuel to the tank. I think that's a pretty low possibility all things considered, though. Venting the cap would be the first thing to do.

jd · Post by jd » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:52 am

ericalm wrote:Venting the cap would be the first thing to do.

Just drill a little hole in the cap, then?

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:33 pm

Two holes. Like pdxrita said - follow this thread: viewtopic.php?t=15318

jd · Post by jd » Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:37 pm

Thanks for the info. Strangely, last night I went to that thread but the pictures weren't there. I thought that maybe they'd been removed for some reason. But this morning the pics are there again!

Strange, but then, so am I.

jd

Post by **ericalm** » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:52 pm

jd wrote:Thanks for the info. Strangely, last night I went to that thread but the pictures weren't there. I thought that maybe they'd been removed for some reason. But this morning the pics are there again!

Strange, but then, so am I.

jd

You have to be logged in to see some photos. MIght have been the problem…

[email protected] · Post by **[email protected]** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:49 pm

Jazzyful wrote:Hi, I have a 2009 Buddy 125 with ~1200 miles on it.

The title pretty much says it. A bit of relevant background info:

I had recently accidentally left my key in the "on" position and drained the battery. My roommate has a charging thing that he let me recharge it on, and I then replaced the battery. Everything seemed to be running fine (no issues starting, etc.) and then in the middle of my ride, the scooter died. All I have to do is pull over to the side of the road and restart it and everything's fine, but it's pretty irritating.

I thought I might have put the battery back in badly, so I re-checked it and made sure everything was really secure, but the problem persists.

Any diagnosis? Thanks for your help.

Modern Buddy

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