LML Star 200i

[JohnnyScoots]

I searched for posts on here and couldn't find any so please forgive me if this is a double post.

How long until Genuine starts bringing the 200 4T to the US?

I've been wanting this to happen for a while!

LML Star 200 4T

[DirtyRAT]

I would love to have one of those. Let's hope Genuine has this product in the pipe for import.

Have you seen the race Stella called the Corsa?

[Dooglas]

Considering how long it took to actually get the 4T 150 on the street in the US, I wouldn't make any plans based on the early appearance of the 200 in the US. (I don't think any appearance in the US is necessarily a given ).

Having said that, I am hoping this will eventually become the tug of choice for the Cozy sidecar.

[Lovelandstella]

(I don't think any appearance in the US is necessarily a given ).

I do. it must be here. it is right in line with Genuine's business model- why would they not import it? what possibly reason would Genuine refuse to import it? I assume the EPA will be a jerk again- but they cannot completely block a product, only delay it. well this product anyway...

Considering how long it took to actually get the 4T 150 on the street in the US, I wouldn't make any plans based on the early appearance of the 200 in the US.

This, I agree with 100% - it will be a long period of time- say... 1-2 years after it is actually released in India- before we see it in USA. (my consertavite guess)

[soapbox]
In other words, enjoy your La vita or stella (or whatever you, the reader, are driving) like crazy and start saving for this, but don't not buy a different scooter in the mean time and wait for this to come out- (like I did with my 4T ) as the wait time will just be too long to bear. - like a couple summers of scooterless anxiety. don't do that to yourself. instead get a steal on a sale priced genuine and then "trade it in/sell it/open a savings account & keep it anyway" to get the Stella 200i when it finally does arrive. and get the most amount of grins in the most amount of time for the least amount of money and worry.
[/soapbox]

anyway... STELLA 4T 200i WOOOT!

[mlee10018]

since we all 4t owners are genuine/lml guinea pigs, we should wait for them to iron out the 200i problems and not also get the first edition… and by then it may be time for a trade in…

[ericalm]

Genuine is understandably VERY tight-lipped on the possibility of the 200i coming to the US.

Will it come eventually? Seems likely.

What's the soonest it could be here if they started all the paperwork, procedures, etc. tomorrow? Could be as much as a year.

There are a couple of other reasons it might be that long or longer. First, the delay of the 4T means that it's still very new to the market. Scoots are ordered and in dealers and the 200i would undercut that. Second, the US scooter market showed some signs of recovery but still hasn't snapped back and bringing the 200i over would be very costly at a time when sales are soft. I know every paper's done a story on gas prices pushing scooter sales, but gas is dropping and sales are still not great in most regions.

[PeteH]

Remember, too, where Genuine's moderate cost scooter line (between PRCJunk and ItaliaChic) fits in the economic framework. It's in a tough spot.

When gas prices rise, all scooter sales should as well (the rising tide lifts all boats). But now throw in the employment side of the recession. The environment is very different than 2008, as more folks are either un-/under-employed or are at fear of losing jobs, which makes them less willing to drop bucks on alternative wheels. Folks with way lower disposable income go downscale on the scoots, and the shops and distributors with high-quality med-to-high cost lines like Piaggio and Genuine take it in the teeth.

Genuine seems to me to be in a tight economic crack. They could lose out if gas prices go back down -or- if incomes go down (somebody else could come along, too, and undercut them just a bit on price, but with better-than-junk quality, and really hurt them). Thus it seems to me we won't see the risk of introducing a new line for some time.

[JohnnyScoots]

Folks with way lower disposable income go downscale on the scoots, and the shops and distributors with high-quality med-to-high cost lines like Piaggio and Genuine take it in the teeth.

Also, in addition to low- income, I feel like the lack of knowledge and research on the part of the consumer and the "push- fast" pop- up scoot dealers with fast talking salesmen across the nation are selling more of the $999 .00 scoots than ever.

People still think "A scooter is a moped is a Vespa. Same thing".

It's the role of the consumer to keep special attention and heed the caveat, but it's also our role as seasoned scooterists to educate and not discriminate when people have questions.

I agree with you, though. I feel like if the 200i were to come out tomorrow, it wouldn't be as marketable so much as a means of quality, low maintenance, efficient, green transportation. With the mindset and knowledge of the current "SUV to scoot" market, it would still just be a moped/vespa/scooter that they might not just want to drop over 4k on.

It's like trying to buy a Ferrari as your first sports car. You always have a good look at the Miata first, and then end up with the Mustang.

I know I did.

[PeteH]

Agreed. For Genuine to really thrive, three things need to go right. First, they need to innovate, which they're doing with the 4T and cleaning up the rest of the product line (although did the Bud 150s really have to go?). Second, consumer interest in scooters, whether as low cost transportation or culturally cool/acceptable needs to remain where it is. I can't help but think sometimes that scooter demand is one unfavorable music video away from suddenly being massively uncool. Thirdly, the competition has to stay dumb. Piaggio isn't being aggressive in the US, nor are the Japanese interested much in the sub-250cc market here. A little protectionism, namely Customs keeping the seriously unsafe PRC junk away, doesn't hurt either.

So I like Genuine - their product line is good and their customer service is second to none, but they have to stay smart and keep a close eye on the economics to survive. They did so in 2009; let's hope they hedge their bets wisely going forward.

[JohnnyScoots]

I can't help but think sometimes that scooter demand is one unfavorable music video away from suddenly being massively uncool.

Sadly, I think you're on to something here. I won't be pessimistic, though. The culture is why the scooter "community" caught my attention in the first place. Years into it, though, I see it as the most sensible form of urban transportation as I live directly in the middle of San Diego. I still love the culture and would shudder to see it "shift" in the direction of jokingly uncool.

[ericalm]

I can't help but think sometimes that scooter demand is one unfavorable music video away from suddenly being massively uncool.

Sadly, I think you're on to something here. I won't be pessimistic, though. The culture is why the scooter "community" caught my attention in the first place. Years into it, though, I see it as the most sensible form of urban transportation as I live directly in the middle of San Diego. I still love the culture and would shudder to see it "shift" in the direction of jokingly uncool.

Scooters always kind of been that to many people. Most of the people I see at large scooter events—and these make up the bulk of buyers these days—either think they're cool because of the culture and history or don't care if they are.

[Dooglas]

Most of the people I see at large scooter events—and these make up the bulk of buyers these days—either think they're cool because of the culture and history or don't care if they are.

I gave up on cool long ago. I just like to ride scooters!

[JohnnyScoots]

Most of the people I see at large scooter events—and these make up the bulk of buyers these days—either think they're cool because of the culture and history or don't care if they are.

This is true, and sometimes they think they are too cool to talk to scooterists that aren't "on their level". That group is rather aggravating to me. I scoot because it's fun, environmentally friendly and I can always park directly in front of where I'm going in downtown San Diego

[Silver Streak]

Most of the people I see at large scooter events—and these make up the bulk of buyers these days—either think they're cool because of the culture and history or don't care if they are.

This is true, and sometimes they think they are too cool to talk to scooterists that aren't "on their level". That group is rather aggravating to me. I scoot because it's fun, environmentally friendly and I can always park directly in front of where I'm going in downtown San Diego

I think this is much more prevalent on the West Coast. There doesn't seem to be as much emphasis on "scooter subculture" in most parts of the country.

That's fine with me.

[ericalm]

Most of the people I see at large scooter events—and these make up the bulk of buyers these days—either think they're cool because of the culture and history or don't care if they are.

This is true, and sometimes they think they are too cool to talk to scooterists that aren't "on their level". That group is rather aggravating to me. I scoot because it's fun, environmentally friendly and I can always park directly in front of where I'm going in downtown San Diego

I think this is much more prevalent on the West Coast. There doesn't seem to be as much emphasis on "scooter subculture" in most parts of the country.

That's fine with me.

I hear about it going on in various locations around the country. It's particularly bad on the West Coast, though. SoCal, NoCal, it's prevalent.

[JohnnyScoots]

The San Diego scene has been pretty welcoming. Especially the guys over at Motorsport Scooter. In fact, they wanted me to bring my scooter there to look at it/ ride and and liked it. They want to do the service on it for me out of sheer curiosity for a great price.

I thought for sure that I would get a lot of BS from the purists, but it's been a good "ride" so far. I just love scooters regardless of genre. I even ride with the Ruckus guys quite frequently. Good group, they are.

Then again.. I was born and raised in Nashville.

[Dooglas]

I think this is much more prevalent on the West Coast. There doesn't seem to be as much emphasis on "scooter subculture" in most parts of the country.

If there is a scooter "subculture" around here, I have never seen it. Perhaps a California thing ? All I see is that the vintage riders tend to hang together - it takes parts and skill to keep those puppies running.

[Len]

I would buy one NOW, today. I want the 200cc version of the stella.
Had money down on the Stella 150 4t when it was first introduced- however it took a YEAR or more for them to get here and I got my money back. In the Mean time I am holding on to it for what I REALLY Want- the 200cc version.

I am tired of waiting. If they have them in Europe why can't we have them here???????????

[ericalm]

I am tired of waiting. If they have them in Europe why can't we have them here???????????

They would undermine sales of the 4T 150s. Genuine's invested a lot in bringing those here but that 1 year delay cost them dearly.
The 200s are also built to EURO specs and it costs a whole hell of a lot to bring a new model into the US.
Also, as much as we're enamored with the Stella 4T, I think US customers would demand much more for the probable price point of the 200i—paint, trim, electrics, etc. would have to be improved. Then the cost would be even higher.
And, finally, the market for shifties in the US is VERY small. Small enough that Genuine would have a tough time recouping whatever it takes to bring this model in.

What new buyers most often say they want: Something that looks like a Stella but has an auto transmission. LML is working on that; they already have the smallframe (PK-based) auto. The word from European dealers when the Stella/Star 4T was initially announced was that it would be followed by an injected 200cc, then an automatic 250cc.

[viney266]

Always brings a smirk to my face when the cool "biker" guys don't wave at me when I'm on the scooter. I wonder if they knew about my garage full of cool bikes (over 30 of them) if they would wave then...so stupid

I like 2 wheels and enjoy whatever I'm riding. Hell it took me 38 years of riding to discover the fun I'm having on scoots!

I think the LML automatic would go here. I like the shifty but realize that is a small part of the market