Malossi/DrPully

Major Redneck · Post by **Major Redneck** » Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:25 am

the pads on my clutch are covered but i did notice that it seams like the bell is farther away from the pads than the stock clutch... dont know if its good or bad...

i guess all in all its a good clutch a little pricey but so much better improvement over stock... i wonder if NCY,,, Malossi,,, Stage 6 would have a clutch that fits the Rattler???

nissanman · Post by **nissanman** » Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:14 am

Just took it apart to change the clutch springs (going for a 2k engagement rather than a 1560). Upon closer inspection there is a small part of the clutch that does not make contact with the bell. I'd say about a mm worth does not make contact. The bell would have to have a deeper contact area to correct this.

Major Redneck · Post by **Major Redneck** » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:50 pm

i see you got the P bell,,, that was the problem with that bell it was about a mm+ short... thats why i had to wait for the M bell in order to install it...

the part that im talking about is when you lay the clutch in the bell "center" the space from the clutch pads to the bell is close to 3mm from the bell...

i also went with the 2K it ingages somewhat slower than the other springs but it does not bite into ingagement as hard... its take off with little gas and work/feel the clutch ingaging as you work the gas,,, but theres also that hammer down on it and it ingages no problem... disingagement is done at about the indicated 15mph mark,,, clutch does not like going under 20mph down to the 15mph mark,,, i might try going down one spring on the pillow...

nissanman · Post by **nissanman** » Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:26 pm

I've got the softest pillow springs in now, I'll test it later. In your first post you said the "p"bell was right, not the "m" in the picture...

B02S4 · Post by **B02S4** » Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:48 pm

Major Redneck wrote: ...i also went with the 2K it ingages somewhat slower than the other springs but it does not bite into ingagement as hard... its take off with little gas and work/feel the clutch ingaging as you work the gas,,, but theres also that hammer down on it and it ingages no problem... disingagement is done at about the indicated 15mph mark,,, clutch does not like going under 20mph down to the 15mph mark,,, i might try going down one spring on the pillow...

Yup, & that is in part why I went with the lightest clutch springs & no pillow springs...

Mine has the P bell (at least that is how it was marked) & it needed to have approx. 2mm ground-off the inner shaft boss to get full shoe enagagement.

Major Redneck · Post by **Major Redneck** » Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:51 pm

my bad,,, you got the right one (the M well not go on the shaft at all its too small),,, iv been working all night and my small mind went 180 on me...when i take mine off i'll give that part a much better look,,,

nissanman · Post by **nissanman** » Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:50 am

Some updated news on the HiT Clutch... I really like that you can change out the pillow springs without having to take the whole clutch assembly apart. Just remove the bell and you're in business, leave it on the bike to do it. My clutch was grabbing waaay to hard so I increased the tension of the pillow springs. Now I'm running about a 2k clutch engagement with the heaviest pillow springs and 12.5g sliders (actually 3x12, 3x13). The short ride test indicates a much better launch than before. We'll give that setup a go for a bit

B02S4 · Post by **B02S4** » Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:05 pm

Are you sure about the engagement RPM? That does not seem right, even with the lightest clutch springs & no pillow springs it should not engage at 2k. Prolly more like 3k, for initial engagement.

nissanman · Post by **nissanman** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 12:05 pm

According to the setup chart it should be close to 1950RPM. The factory setting was like 1300RPM! Heck, they give you enough springs for the clutch you can get like a 4k engagement

The 2k feels decent for launch without forcing a wheelie everytime, the original setting was too early. With the soft pillow springs in there the launch was quite jolting, as smooth as riding down a staircase I'd have to imagine...

B02S4 · Post by **B02S4** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:22 pm

IIRC, 1900 RPM is pretty close to the stock idle RPM spec, give or take a little.

I run the lightest clutch springs, no pillow springs, have a tach, & the clutch doesn't lock up until 4k. Initial engagement is somewhere around maybe 3K, maybe a little less...

Mine is an early version, maybe something changed, or yours is set up differently on the pillow angle (I never measured that on mine).

Dunno. Regardless, perhaps it is better to forget what the manual says, & go by a tach instead.

nissanman · Post by **nissanman** » Wed Jun 09, 2010 1:40 am

I use the twobun tach...

SuperCyclone.81 · Post by **SuperCyclone.81** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:49 pm

Do the hit clutches make a difference in over all accelerating or is it JUST off the line performance?

brianwheelies · Post by **brianwheelies** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:51 pm

SuperCyclone.81 wrote:Do the hit clutches make a difference in over all accelerating or is it JUST off the line performance?

The adjustable clutch allows you to dial in what rpm it grabs at. Light clutch springs will take off like stock at lower rpm. Heavier clutch springs require more rpm before they bite. Think of revving a motorcycle to 5000 rpm and letting out clutch versus letting out the clutch just off idle.

SuperCyclone.81 · Post by **SuperCyclone.81** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:56 pm

Cool, thanks for helping me understand!

SuperCyclone.81 · Post by **SuperCyclone.81** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:00 pm

Has anyone heard of Naraku clutches and clutch bells? They seem to be a little bit cheaper than the others so I was wondering if you guys had heard or used any of their stuff? Thanks

B02S4 · Post by **B02S4** » Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:36 pm

SuperCyclone.81 wrote:Has anyone heard of Naraku clutches and clutch bells...

No

SuperCyclone.81 · Post by **SuperCyclone.81** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:45 pm

Is it reasonable for me to get a descent clutch and bell for around $200? If so what are some brands I should look at? Thanks

SuperCyclone.81 · Post by **SuperCyclone.81** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:37 pm

well the weather was nice today so I decided to go for a little ride and I was pulling a hill pretty nice and then this hideous racket started coming from the CVT and I lost power. I haven't taken it apart yet to diagnose the problem, but Im hoping that it is only a belt or something...

B02S4 · Post by **B02S4** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:23 am

My guess is the variator nut came loose...

SuperCyclone.81 · Post by **SuperCyclone.81** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:00 am

Now that I think about it, thats exactly what it sounded like. Thanks, thats gonna be such an easier fix!

SuperCyclone.81 · Post by **SuperCyclone.81** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:19 pm

So I opened it up last night and it was in fact the variatior nut coming loose. That was allowing the wings of the variator with the cvt case. I've got a picture of the damage but I can't figure out how to attach the image with the iPad so I'll load it up when I get back to my Mac.

SuperCyclone.81 · Post by **SuperCyclone.81** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:11 pm

Since the rattler parts are slowly disappearing, if I was to rebuild the engine, would any Jog 90 cylinder and piston work? Thanks

SuperCyclone.81 · Post by **SuperCyclone.81** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:58 am

So I was riding today and I started hearing a decently loud clicking noise comig from the trans. It doesn't make it when it's just idling either just while it's moving, and I'm not sure exactly if it's only when the clutch is engaged or even when it's not. Could be both, I'm not positive. Any ideas/ experience with this? Thanks

B02S4 · Post by **B02S4** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:39 pm

Just a guess - It could possibily be a loose clutch nut, inside of the bell. If that's what it is & you catch it fast enough then it won't screw up the fastner or shaft threads.

SuperCyclone.81 · Post by **SuperCyclone.81** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:35 pm

Is this the nut your talking about?

B02S4 · Post by **B02S4** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:17 pm

Yep...

SuperCyclone.81 · Post by **SuperCyclone.81** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:21 pm

Gotcha, I'll check it out. Can I use an impact wrench on it or will that strip the threads?

B02S4 · Post by **B02S4** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:20 am

You can use an impact wrench to remove & reinstall the clutch bell nut, if that's what you mean.

If you are talking about tightening the clutch assembly nut, then you'll be better off with a set of large channel locks. That clutch assembly nut is a big ass nut yet it is very thin with very fine threads. And the threaded hub is aluminum, too...

I personally would remove the clutch assembly from the splined shaft before attempting to tighten the clutch assembly nut.

BTW, be very careful if you remove the clutch assembly nut, as the assembly is subject to strong, constant contra/torque spring pressure from the other side. I made a simple tool help accomplish that safely; a pic of it is on genuinerattler.com

SuperCyclone.81 · Post by **SuperCyclone.81** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:18 am

So could this assembly nut be causing the clicking? It didn't seem loose when I took the clutch bell off, I just tried it with my hand though nothing too crazy. And if it comes down to tightening it, what are these large channel locks your talking about?

B02S4 · Post by **B02S4** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:12 pm

Could it? Maybe.
Is it? Dunno.
Like I said, that was just a guess...

You've got to open the CVT case up & have a look-see.
If the center fixing nut comes loose on the clutch assembly then that may cause the outer clutch assembly to contact the clutch bell, however that would make more of a scraping sound than a clicking sound.

Google "channellock pliers" for descriptions & images. There are many cheaper knockoffs available at any auto supply or big box home store.

SuperCyclone.81 · Post by **SuperCyclone.81** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:16 pm

Ok ya, I am familiar with that, I just didn't recognize the name. So it could be the assembly nut. What are some other possibilities? It seems to be more with speed verses rpm, almost like once you go fast enough to make the clutch engage it starts to make the noise...

SuperCyclone.81 · Post by **SuperCyclone.81** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:52 pm

I just got back from spring break and I'm planning on tearing the scoot down here in a couple of hours so hopefully Ill be able to figure out what the problem is... I talked to a guy on youtube that does some scooter work and he thought that it may just be the roller weights having a flat spot on them? Ive got sliders installed right now with medium wear so I guess Ill change them out for some rollers and see if that shuts it up.

SuperCyclone.81 · Post by **SuperCyclone.81** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:18 pm

Well, Ive got some bad news... The sliders where fine, its the gears that are making all of the noise... anyone know where I can get another set?

Lotrat · Post by **Lotrat** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:39 am

How did you do that? Call Scooterworks and ask for a quote.

This place has parts too: http://www.scooterloungeonline.com/blackcattransmission

SuperCyclone.81 · Post by **SuperCyclone.81** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:32 pm

Thank you so much! Im over here freaking out thinking that Im never gonna find all of those parts haha. But ya, I don't think scooterworks is open on Saturdays but I guess I can call and make sure. Im almost 99% sure this is from not changing the gear oil and riding it pretty hard. I bought it used in January and it was already making a little bit of noise but I had no idea what it was and just kept riding it. Im sure an $8 bottle of gear oil would have saved me however much these gears are about to cost. Also, are the 50 and 110cc gears the same? These seem to be for the 50? Just making sure before I drop $200 on them! But thanks again for the help and let me know if you think of anything else!

bigbropgo · Post by **bigbropgo** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:43 pm

those missing teeth are nuts! good luck i don't need gears but its good to know where and how much.

SuperCyclone.81 · Post by **SuperCyclone.81** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:09 pm

Ok, so I made some phone calls and apparently the 50 and 110 use different gear sets. I just ended up contacting the closest Genuine dealer, which isn't even in this state, and he said that Genuine is required by law to carry parts for discontinued bikes for at least 10 years. So I just told him the parts that I needed and they are gonna ship Monday. I ordered 2 gears, 2 bearings, and a gasket for $126 shipped. So hopefully this will get my beast back on the road!

bigbropgo · Post by **bigbropgo** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:31 am

Not that it helps. But the pgo pmx has been around since 2000 and still being sold. So hopefully some parts will stick around.

Lotrat · Post by **Lotrat** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:39 am

SuperCyclone.81 wrote:Ok, so I made some phone calls and apparently the 50 and 110 use different gear sets. I just ended up contacting the closest Genuine dealer, which isn't even in this state, and he said that Genuine is required by law to carry parts for discontinued bikes for at least 10 years. So I just told him the parts that I needed and they are gonna ship Monday. I ordered 2 gears, 2 bearings, and a gasket for $126 shipped. So hopefully this will get my beast back on the road!

Good call on the bearings. May as well replace any questionable parts as long as you have it apart. Looks like you'll have some nice trophies for the mantel.

SuperCyclone.81 · Post by **SuperCyclone.81** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:53 pm

Well the parts came in yesterday and I got them put in so all is well in my world! Do you guys think the new gears need "breaking in" or is a gear pretty much a gear?

Lotrat · Post by **Lotrat** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:14 am

Gear oil is cheap and you don't use much. Run it for 200 miles, change it, run it for 400 miles, change it, and then follow the manual.

SuperCyclone.81 · Post by **SuperCyclone.81** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:57 pm

Is that to help the "break in" phase or what?

Lotrat · Post by **Lotrat** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:19 pm

SuperCyclone.81 wrote:Is that to help the "break in" phase or what?

Yes. Just like a motor, gears require a break in period. Baby them for the first 200. Limit WOT for the first 500 miles. You already know the result of abused gears.

SuperCyclone.81 · Post by **SuperCyclone.81** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:40 pm

Ok ya that makes sense. Thanks. It kind of feels like the belt is slipping right now at take off. Could that be a result of new gears?

Lotrat · Post by **Lotrat** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:21 pm

Could be a few things. My guess is you have some oil or grease on the belt or CVT parts from greasy hands or from the tear down and rebuild. Did you degrease it before you put it together? You want the belt to grip not slip.

SuperCyclone.81 · Post by **SuperCyclone.81** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:29 pm

Thats probably it. But no, I didn't know anything about degreasing. So just take it back apart and wipe it down or what?

Lotrat · Post by **Lotrat** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:31 pm

Yeup. Check the belt too. It should be grippy not slippy.

SuperCyclone.81 · Post by **SuperCyclone.81** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:31 pm

Do need to clean it with anything or just use a rag?

Lotrat · Post by **Lotrat** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:23 am

Rag, shop towel, paper towel, old shirt... whatever you got laying around.

SuperCyclone.81 · Post by **SuperCyclone.81** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:35 am

Good deal I hope that fixes it! Thanks for the help