"Barn find" '07 LX150 or brand-new 170i?

[bigcitrus]

Hi, all:

Longtime lurker, first time poster. A friend of mine is selling her 2007 LX150 (carbureted) for $2800. It's essentially brand new, with under 200 (yes, 200) miles on the clock, and just a few minor scrapes from being knocked over in the garage. I'm torn between that and a brand-new Buddy 170i. I've done a fair amount of searching both here and on ModernVespa, and I think I've got a pretty good handle on the basic pros and cons:

Buddy pros:
1. Fuel injected
2. Faster
3. Warranty

Buddy cons:
1. Plastic panels/not as "refined"
2. No Vespa cachet
3. More expensive (in my case, anyway--obviously a new LX is pricier, but the one I'm looking at isn't)

I've read several LX-vs-Buddy comparos on both MB and MV, but my situation is a little different than those, since in my case the Vespa is cheaper--most comparos I read were based on the idea that the Vespa was more expensive.

My first major question is reliability. I already have a 1964 Lambretta, so I have the "breaking down in the middle of nowhere" quota nicely filled. Buddy vs. Vespa, is there a big difference in reliability/required maintenance/cost of maintenance?

Second question is, how much faster is the Buddy? I read here that a Buddy 125 is quicker than a carbureted LX150, so the 170i must be way faster, right? I don't plan on riding on expressways, but I'm in the SF bay and a ride across a bridge isn't out of the question.

Third question, underseat storage. I've read hints that the Buddy compartment is significantly larger (will fit most full-face helmets where the Vespa generally won't), but no definitive answers.

And the ultimate question, is a $2800 carbureted LX enough of a discount over a brand new Buddy ($3299 MSRP plus tax and registration) that I should just go for it?

(Coincidentally, when I went to post a similar thread on ModernVespa, there was a guy on there who already owned a 170i but wanted to know if he should buy a carbureted LX150 to replace it. As far as I'm concerned, that guy was on crack.)

[Syd]

Was the LX run regularly, or are you going to have to spend in order to fix up what years in storage have done to it? That's another potential Con in the Vespa column.

[bigcitrus]

It was started periodically and stored in a dry garage, so I'm not super-concerned about age-related deterioration, but you're right, that's another X factor for the Vespa. Are there any specific pieces that you'd be concerned about with limited use? I can inspect the hoses and soft pieces easily enough--is there anything else I should watch for?

[JHScoot]

BUDDY 170 PROS

MORE FUN
MORE FUN
MORE FUN
MUCH MORE FUN!!!

Full 2 year Warranty

MV sucks next to MB tbh so Buddy community of riders, too

[Syd]

It was started periodically and stored in a dry garage, so I'm not super-concerned about age-related deterioration, but you're right, that's another X factor for the Vespa. Are there any specific pieces that you'd be concerned about with limited use? I can inspect the hoses and soft pieces easily enough--is there anything else I should watch for?

Garaged is good, but anything that could dry out ought to be at least inspected for cracks if not felt or squeezed - even tires; they could well have collected dry cracks which would require replacing both tires, if not immediately, definitely sooner.

[neotrotsky]

As cool as some of the guys on MV are, there are ALOT of brand whores over there. Of course I've heard said that MB has too many "noobs" so take it for what it's worth. But, I mention that because the Vespa name has that appeal that many throw logic out of when it comes to purchases. I've seen people turn their nose up on a GREAT priced Fly 150 made by Piaggio only to buy a 50cc Vespa for more money simply because they want the name of Vespa. And for those who have only ridden new Vespas, you will never get the "respect" from vintage-only snobs. Not all riders are that way mind you, but some people buy into Vespa because it's the hip thing to do and have one to be seen on more than actually riding.

Now, as a former Vespa owner I can say they are fantastic machines... and have the repair bill to match. The modern scoots are not cheap to work on (but the older ones are a breeze and cheap. You just have to do it WAY more often)! Also, while steel gives a smoother overall ride, it's because it comes at a sacrifice: Weight. The LX is going to be a heavier bike due to the steel, and if you bounce it, the scoot won't bounce back. And, bodywork is VERY expensive on small, curvy bits of metal.

The 170i on the other hand may be *too* light. I've test ridden one, and while it's more peppy than an LX150 to be sure, it sure is skiddish for a smallframe. I found it kind of cool, but I'm sure for longer distances it wouldn't be as comfy as a Vespa. Also, The plastic is a divisive thing for many. I myself can go either way since the Buddy is so well put together. And fuel injection<carb in any modern bike. After riding a fuel injected scooter the gains were easy to see!

If it were me, a brand new 2 year warranty more than pays for itself in piece of mind from a good company. You won't get that from a Vespa, and a Vespa is the one scooter that would gain the most from a warranty if something major were to go wrong since labor is so expensive on Italian bikes. While I love traditional scooters, the pluses on a 170i are too much to ignore. Yes, stylewise it may not be as sharp as the LX but the tech is reliable, sporty and quite affordable!

[JHScoot]

^ yeah i am just ribbing about MV, too


the admin over there is a piece of work, though. seems a serious dude on the internet the "tone" of the board is...interesting

well, it is a Vespa board so wtf they can have it

once i was on a ride and my scooter was parked there first and three Vespa owners rode up, looked at it, and parked away from it. couldn't have been ME i was watching from inside

anyway i have it on good account from someone who owns two Vespa 250's that the Buddy is a preferable scooter to ride then the LX 150. he says the LX is too heavy to be wild and fun like Buddy, stock

i bet eric our admin has an opinion as he has owned and rode both

[Len]

I have owned Vespa P 200 Scooter and also a Yamaha Riva 180. I will be getting a Buddy 170i very shortly.

It has taken me a long time to be sure which way to go on this issue of a Vespa vs a Buddy. Originally I was liking the Steel body approach to a scooter. HOWEVER, if it is ever damaged- It is not so nice. Not only does it require a treatment like that from an Auto-body shop but more importantly the end result IS NEVER as nice as the original that is, it has BONDO under that paint. I don't know about you but that would bother me. With the Plastic panels you can replace them very cheaply and the end result is exactly like NEW.

For customizing Repainting a Vespa is a PAIN- Everything has to be taken off that metal body-painted and re-assembled. MAJOR WORK.

With a Buddy- you could buy different panels- paint them your color of choice. Swap them with the ones that came stock in a few hours (Still keeping the originals) and then you could at some point return that bike to stock condition very easily. All for a few hundred bucks.

The so-called advantage of the metal body when looked at this way is not so advantageous.

On the buddy, a scratched panel could be ordered in the stock color and replaced for $34.00 depending on the particular panel.

all in all I have changed my mind that the "Metal Body" is better.

If they made a Vintage looking Scooter with plastic panels I think I would buy that for all the reasons listed above Plus the looks of a Vintage

just my thoughts...

[Disney]

Hey there everyone,

Here's my take on both Vespa and Buddy models.

I started out with a Buddy as my first scooter in 2007... Buddy 125cc Italia to be exact. It's been my ride since 2007-2011 and I just hit 16K miles. I bought myself a Vespa about 6 months ago and stored away the Buddy. Before the Vespa purchase, I was considering the 170ie as well.

I'm no expert on either (mechanically) but I'll tell my riding experiences.

The Vespa pros
- WAY WAY smoother ride
suspension and acceleration
- Instrument panel, design, and build is better IMO
- I was able to hit 70mph (of course its a bigger engine)
- More seat space for the passenger (my girlfriend likes the Vespa seat much better)

The Vespa cons
- Expensive to repair!! I just sold my S150 after a lil rear ending (on my end) and the estimated cost was $1250 min. that's without repair/replacement of any wiring that the damage would have cost.
Why that much to repair?!... because the (new models) are one piece
http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic92805 ... leg+shield


The Buddy pros
- Better for smaller people (I'm 5'7")
- Easy and cheap repair
- Body damage easily fixed... I had a few things replaced for cheap!
http://www.scooterloungeonline.com/genu ... bodypanels
- I was able to hit 60mph

The Buddy cons
- After riding the Vespa and going back the Buddy, I felt like the Buddy was a toy.
- Suspension is much stiffer and I can feel EVERY bump
- The parts and cheaper and you can hear squeeks and such
- very little passenger room

I feel a lot safer going 60+ on the Vespa than the Buddy though... it's a bigger body

I can't think of anything else at the moment but if you have any questions, I'll try my best to answer.

[JHScoot]

^ so what you're saying is Buddy = a fun 'lil plastic paneled, lighweight sports car and Vespa = Lincoln Continental, circa '92?

hmm....tough decision there.....NOT!

[neotrotsky]

^ so what you're saying is Buddy = a fun 'lil plastic paneled, lighweight sports car and Vespa = Lincoln Continental, circa '92?

hmm....tough decision there.....NOT!

Now to be fair to the LX, it does handle well when you are looking for everyday comfort. It's more like a VW Passat for scooters: Luxurious, well put together and attractive but you pay more than you really should for it and it's A LOT more difficult to work on than you'd ever imagine. Not that it's a bad bike at ALL, but it does ride it's name a bit too high and it's a bit low on the MPG's and sharp maneuvering than you would expect for a scooter. I mean, many LX150's get 70mpg or so. I averaged 75mpg real world on both a Honda Rebel 250 and a Ninja 250... Granted those are two different animals, but it does make you think a bit.

The Buddy? Definitely a Miata. Not as refined, but it doesn't have to be! It's simplicity is it's appeal. You still get an amazingly well built, quality product. But, you wouldn't take the Miata cross-country unless you're REALLY into that kind of adventure. The LX150 could do a back road cross country trip with a bit more comfort. But, it wouldn't be as fun as the 170i when you get into the rockies

[Disney]

Don't get me wrong guys, I love both but prefer the Vespa since it fits my needs a bit more.

If I didn't love the Buddy, I wouldn't have ridden it for 4 years and drive 16k on it.

As much as I'm becoming a bigger Vespa fan, it is overpriced. The damn OEM top case is $500+ and a VESPA rear rack is $400... CRAZY

[JHScoot]

no doubt Vespa is a high quality machine. simply no doubt and i can see why some may prefer it over Buddy, and why. however none may be actual riding reasons. i mean i only have experience with a Blackjack and all its suspension goodies. and pushing the scooter hard i just can't imagine how any stock scooter could handle just as well. or be as nimble or as fun to pilot

i have yet to ride a Vespa btw

^ so what you're saying is Buddy = a fun 'lil plastic paneled, lighweight sports car and Vespa = Lincoln Continental, circa '92?

hmm....tough decision there.....NOT!

Now to be fair to the LX, it does handle well when you are looking for everyday comfort. It's more like a VW Passat for scooters: Luxurious, well put together and attractive but you pay more than you really should for it and it's A LOT more difficult to work on than you'd ever imagine. Not that it's a bad bike at ALL, but it does ride it's name a bit too high and it's a bit low on the MPG's and sharp maneuvering than you would expect for a scooter. I mean, many LX150's get 70mpg or so. I averaged 75mpg real world on both a Honda Rebel 250 and a Ninja 250... Granted those are two different animals, but it does make you think a bit.

The Buddy? Definitely a Miata. Not as refined, but it doesn't have to be! It's simplicity is it's appeal. You still get an amazingly well built, quality product. But, you wouldn't take the Miata cross-country unless you're REALLY into that kind of adventure. The LX150 could do a back road cross country trip with a bit more comfort. But, it wouldn't be as fun as the 170i when you get into the rockies

i like the car comparos they give a long time former cager like myself the only idea of wtf we're going on about!

[Disney]

Haha hilarious!

The biggest thing I noticed when switching is the size of the bikes... It was suspension or acceleration etc. The size was the game changer for me.

I want try a 170 and blackjack. They seem fun

[ericalm]

i have yet to ride a Vespa btw

Yeah, exactly. Your talking smack out your posterior to knowing anything about what you're commenting on ratio seems pretty skewed recently.

I've also owned both a Buddy 125 and a Vespa LX. I've spent quite a bit of time riding Buddy 150s, too.

I definitely enjoy them both. The Buddy is at least as reliable and has the warranty. Every time I ride a Buddy, I'm reminded of how damn fun they are to ride and throw around.

The Vespa is for those who are committed to having a modern Vespa. Nothing wrong with that. It's why I own one (well, this was pre-Buddy and I also couldn't get a new PX or Stella in CA at the time). If you're not, get the Buddy.

[JHScoot]

oic, eric. because i haven't rode a Vespa that means i don't know anything about them?

i simply said the Buddy is more fun to ride

and i bet dollars to donuts (although i know nothing of donuts!) that is most likely, by and large, true

just my unqualified opinion. but i will validate it asap as to not shoot any more stuff out my....posterior

[JHScoot]

ah man. why do i have to defend my Buddy bias to the Admin of a site called....ModernBUDDY?

pfft. you don't even own one! (do you?)

ok i don't either, but still

[Len]

The Vespa pros
- WAY WAY smoother ride
suspension and acceleration

It has been said that the Vespa is WAY WAY Smother ride.
That being said; Can the Buddy suspension be upgraded to be as good as the ride given by the Vespa?
ie, Tires, brakes, shocks etc that will greatly improve the comfort of the buddy?

[BuddyRaton]

As much as I'm becoming a bigger Vespa fan, it is overpriced. The damn OEM top case is $500+ and a VESPA rear rack is $400... CRAZY

They count on that!

Vespa is to scooter as Harley is to MC...if it has a Vespa logo on it or is Vespa specific...just throw your wallet at it!

[Dooglas]

I'm another one of those folks that has owned both an LX and a Buddy. The LX is a good solid scooter with a sophisticated design and great bodywork. It is a fun bike to ride. It's only real downsides are cost - both MSRP and parts are higher than the competition. Around here you can't really say the labor costs for repair are higher as the Vespa dealer and the Buddy dealer are the same shop. Now, I've owned a Buddy for 5 years. It has been reliable and inexpensive to operate. The Buddy is definitely a real value for the money. And practically speaking, changing a Buddy panel after an "ouwie" is MUCH less expensive than body work and a paint job. A couple comments about this "barn find" LX, however. Five years of little use is not a good thing. And how minor are these "minor scrapes? As I said, Vespa body repairs are expensive. Finally, $2800 for an infrequently maintained, scrapped up, five year old LX is too much, IMO.

[Dooglas]

The biggest thing I noticed when switching is the size of the bikes... It was suspension or acceleration etc. The size was the game changer for me.

Unless I misunderstand, you are comparing a Buddy to a 250GTS Vespa rather than to the 150LX. Certainly what you have said is true, but dominated by the fact that the GTS is a larger, heavier, and more powerful scooter than either the Buddy or the LX. Compared to the GTS, the LX (and the Buddy) are lighter and quicker when ridden around town. The GTS really shines when you crank up the speed a bit more - it has a substantially higher top end and is much more stable at speed. A somewhat different bike than the other two - but no argument that it is a great scooter .

[k1dude]

It has been said that the Vespa is WAY WAY Smother ride.
That being said; Can the Buddy suspension be upgraded to be as good as the ride given by the Vespa?
ie, Tires, brakes, shocks etc that will greatly improve the comfort of the buddy?

People who have upgraded their suspensions say it's a night and day difference. So you might be on to something. Upgrading your Buddy's stock suspension, brakes, and tires would probably give the Vespa "smooth" ride a run for it's money. And with all those upgraded components, I imagine outside of top speed, the Buddy would probably smoke the Vespa. I guess the Blackjack or Psycho come the closest to what we're talking about, but they don't come with Heidenau tires. And the total cost would still be far less than purchasing a new Vespa.

[ericalm]

oic, eric. because i haven't rode a Vespa that means i don't know anything about them?

i simply said the Buddy is more fun to ride

How can you possibly know that without having ridden both?

I owned a Buddy for five years and have logged thousands of miles on that one and some 150s I've been lucky enough to ride at a few out of state rallies. Sold the Buddy last year because my wife wasn't riding much anymore and once I got a Stella, it was a bit redundant. And I've a lot more money invested (sunk into) my LX, which has low resale value due to its high mileage. Otherwise, I may have sold both the Buddy 125 and the LX and gotten a 170i.

ah man. why do i have to defend my Buddy bias to the Admin of a site called....ModernBUDDY?

The OP is asking for a fair comparison of the two. The forum is here to help members, not pimp Buddys to the exclusion of all others. You are pretty fond of Kymcos, too, I've noticed. Having a preference for one over the other is fine, but you readily admit you have absolutely no experience to base it on. I don't care whether we agree or not, but you're just kind of spouting all this baseless baloney off the top of your head, basically, "Well, I've only ridden one, but it's better."

So, yeah, I'm going to call you on it. If you're so confident in your opinions, you should have no problems backing them up. But if you're basically just making them up, you're going to have a hard time defending them and resort to various ad hominems and such.

It's pointless to keep arguing this, though, because there's nothing to argue. Which is exactly my point.

[Raiderfn311]

Pimping Buddys... Im picturing a stereotypical pimp(Ill leave it at that) asking passer-bys, "You wanna ride? REAL nice and cheap." Cant comment on an LX here, never ridden one. I had a choice when buying though. Buddy 3300 OTD, LX150 5200 OTD. That was the deal breaker. I had the 5200 in hand, but coudnt justify the difference. That was before I knew parts would be more $! So there it was for me, it came down to money. I will say the fit and finish was truly awesome on the Vespa, but you pay for it.

[50CC Cape Cod]

I have a Kymco Cobra 50 & People 50 both are nice but also very different animals in comparison even in the Kymco line. I also am thinking of replacing the people with a Stell 4
since the style and would like to get a side car since my wife does not want to ride her people much anymore and a side car may be an option
especially with a pet as well. Bottom line it is individual taste and what type of riding you are looking for. With any type of vehicles there are usually some who think the label is the big deal not the ride or pleasure you get in return from your vehicle. This attitude usually happens at group gatherings like car shows etc. My thoughts it is my ride how I like it and it is not yours. Everybody to their own. This site has been a great resource for working on my Kymcos and no one has had an attitude since the scoots are not in the Genuine line.

[neotrotsky]

The biggest thing I noticed when switching is the size of the bikes... It was suspension or acceleration etc. The size was the game changer for me.

Unless I misunderstand, you are comparing a Buddy to a 250GTS Vespa rather than to the 150LX. Certainly what you have said is true, but dominated by the fact that the GTS is a larger, heavier, and more powerful scooter than either the Buddy or the LX. Compared to the GTS, the LX (and the Buddy) are lighter and quicker when ridden around town. The GTS really shines when you crank up the speed a bit more - it has a substantially higher top end and is much more stable at speed. A somewhat different bike than the other two - but no argument that it is a great scooter .

As a former GTS250ie owner, I would spend the money to get a GTS over an LX anyday. Then again, understand that when they break, the parts will set you back A TON! But the ride quality, power, stability and luxury on a GTS is tops against just about any scooter out there. You will NOT find a better built bike. It's not as big as a "maxi-scooter", but has all the power and can cruise at 75mph with ease. (at least, I did with mine )

If the option were between a 170i and a GTS, if my account had the wiggle room (in this case, ALOT of wiggle room), I would get the GTS hands down.

[Disney]

The biggest thing I noticed when switching is the size of the bikes... It was suspension or acceleration etc. The size was the game changer for me.

Unless I misunderstand, you are comparing a Buddy to a 250GTS Vespa rather than to the 150LX. Certainly what you have said is true, but dominated by the fact that the GTS is a larger, heavier, and more powerful scooter than either the Buddy or the LX. Compared to the GTS, the LX (and the Buddy) are lighter and quicker when ridden around town. The GTS really shines when you crank up the speed a bit more - it has a substantially higher top end and is much more stable at speed. A somewhat different bike than the other two - but no argument that it is a great scooter .

Sorry if I confused you/everyone... I meant to compare the size from the LX to the Buddy. I'm actually picking up my GTS tomorrow and will be riding it it it for the first time.

*I also meant to say "it WASN'T the suspension or acceleration etc"... I noticed that 2nd after size.

As for the suspension/smooth ride question, I also thought about that before I bought my first Vespa. I don't think I ever went to the next step to even attempt that change because of parts and then labor that will be put into it. I'm no mechanic, so I would've let the shop do it.

[aaronnobody]

one thing that hasn't been mentioned is the motor design. the piaggio leader engine is superior to asian gy6 based engines. oil delivery and filtration being the highest point in my book. also the drivetrain components are more stout.

top speed is higher on an lx.
ergos are better for an adult sized person on an lx.

I consider vespa to be a "luxury" scooter. comparison directly with a buddy isn't quite accurate. the piaggio fly 150 would be a comparable scoot, tubular frame with plastic skin. with that said, body repair does cost more on a vespa.

with a "barn find", check the rubber components (hoses, intake manifold, drive belt, tires), clean the carb, and see if you can get the battery back to life. if its done for, consider maintenance free 12 amp upgrade. you'll have to purchase a new battery tray though.

things to consider.

[aaronnobody]

forgot to mention the decompression cam on the leader engines. I like that too.

[desmolicious]

The Vespa pros
- WAY WAY smoother ride
suspension and acceleration

It has been said that the Vespa is WAY WAY Smoother ride.

I had a Buddy BlackJack - which I guess is meant to have uprated suspension compared to regular Buddys, and it still did not compare to the ride of the Vespa.
My BlackJack did have a really fun buzz bomb of a motor that made you want to wring it out all the time, but it's handling was definitely flightier and less secure than the Vespa. Yeah, it turned quicker, but all these scoots turn so quickly anyway I'd prefer slightly slower with more stability. And not to have to worry if that next pot hole is going to launch you.

But honestly what do you expect? Vespas cost more new vs new.
In this case choosing a Buddy 170 over the barn find LX, I'd say ride both.
As the Vespa is your friend's, take it for a ride. And the Buddy? Well, if they won't let you take the 170 for a ride, try to find a 150 to test. It would be very similar in feel.
Then make up your own mind.

[bigcitrus]

Great info, all--I stepped away for a couple of days and was surprised to find such an enthusiastic response. MB scored some points for the Buddy there, for sure.

Interesting comments about the Vespa brand loyalty. I mean, I have a Lambretta, so that puts be even higher on the "cred" pecking order, right? As long as no one in here has a Maicoletta or something. (And, in other news, my Lambretta is currently, er, taking a break.)

Also an interesting comparison between Vespa/Buddy and Passat/Miata. I'm a car guy at heart, and spent a few years working at a VW/Audi shop. Later, I did some magazine work and got to know several Miatas and the Mazda engineers that put them together. The latter gig, believe me, was a lot less profanity-filled than working on a GOD DAMN PASSAT! Haha, whoa, lost my bearings there for a second.

So it seems like there are a couple of common themes here:
1. The Vespa is more refined, and the Buddy more toylike. Perhaps this isn't a big deal for me, as my other scooter experience is on a Lambretta, which is a total frickin' death trap.
2. Sittin' around doin' nothing is potentially a cause for concern, but a close inspection of the soft bits should reveal any major looming issues.
3. $2800 may be a bit steep, and the jump to a brand new Buddy may be indeed worth it when factoring in the warranty and extra speed.
4. Ride them both, you idiot.
5. Buy a Vespa GTS.

Point #3 was really the center of my original post, and it seems like the consensus points toward the Buddy there. And point #4 is highly valid, and I'm putting that on my to-do list before making a decision. On point #5--like I said, I'm a car guy, and I've owned plenty of cars that cost less than one of those babies. I've heard they use all-metal construction, but I didn't know it was GOLD! Oh!

Thanks everyone for your input.

[neotrotsky]

The GTS just has the *right* power to weight combo for a scooter that isn't a Maxi, but not quite a smallframe either. If more scooter companies got the balance right like Vespa did with the GTS but at a lower price point in the same size chassis, I'm sure you'd see alot more scooters around the US.

That, and the neck snap you get from someone you pass on the freeway while they're mouthing the words "Was that a frak scooter that passed us?!?!" is just priceless!

[ericalm]

Interesting comments about the Vespa brand loyalty. I mean, I have a Lambretta, so that puts be even higher on the "cred" pecking order, right?

Not really; especially not around here. Lambrettas aren't that uncommon and it's not simply owning one, it's the model and other factors. A Vespa GS MK1 will likely earn more cred than many Lambrettas. Owning an Adly Lambretta may result in negative cred. But simply owning one a vintage or rare scooter doesn't in and of itself mean anything. If it did, people could just buy cred by running out and dropping a bunch of money on an LD or a Heinkel or whatever. It's who you are and what you do as much as what you ride.

For the most part, among those who primarily ride modern scooters or who start off on them, that pecking order is bullshit. We tend to be more egalitarian, though there are some rather narrow minded "Vespa or nothing!" people out there.

If cred and the pecking order are any kind of concern, get the Vespa. It may or may not earn you more cred but it's better suited for people who care about that stuff.

[Raiderfn311]

^^^^^^ Raising a toast to Eric

[Syd]

Point #3 was really the center of my original post, and it seems like the consensus points toward the Buddy there.

Remember, you asked the question on Modern Buddy, so that's to be expected. I'll bet the responses would be predictably different if you were to ask the question over at the sister station.

The Vespa is more refined,

I hate this phrase. Vespaphiles use it in reference to most all non-Vespa scoots, because it carries a connotation of superiority: "The Buddy is nice and all, but The Vespa is more refined." Bleh.

[PeteH]

The Sneer - I've received it once or twice from some locals on matching Vespas. Outside the Waffle House, if you can believe that. No place more egalitarian.

They remind me exactly of the Swiss bobsledders in Cool Runnings.

[desmolicious]

The Vespa is more refined,

I hate this phrase. Vespaphiles use it in reference to most all non-Vespa scoots, because it carries a connotation of superiority: "The Buddy is nice and all, but The Vespa is more refined." Bleh.

How would you prefer it to be described?

[desmolicious]

The Sneer - I've received it once or twice from some locals on matching Vespas. Outside the Waffle House, if you can believe that. No place more egalitarian.

Those people are grade A douches.

[bigcitrus]

Interesting comments about the Vespa brand loyalty. I mean, I have a Lambretta, so that puts be even higher on the "cred" pecking order, right?

Not really; especially not around here. Lambrettas aren't that uncommon and it's not simply owning one, it's the model and other factors.

Yeah, well, I was actually just being a smartass. I don't believe in "cred" either--my point was that if there's a pissing contest between a modern Vespa and a modern Buddy, then on paper/internet I would trump all with my broken-ass vintage Lambretta. Which is obviously a flawed and pointless topic of discussion, but I guess my sarcasm didn't quite come across.

Actually, in my previously lurking on both MB and MV, I'm impressed with the relative lack of brand loyalty in both places. Folks have personal preferences, but there are disclaimers of bias, and most info winds up being pretty objective.

It still sounds like that the Buddy is the better on-paper bet, and barring falling in love based on a test ride, I should spend the extra coin on the 170i.

[Lokky]

One thing nobody has touched upon is the immobilizer.

For me that would be a great selling point for the Vespa.

[Syd]

The Vespa is more refined,

I hate this phrase. Vespaphiles use it in reference to most all non-Vespa scoots, because it carries a connotation of superiority: "The Buddy is nice and all, but The Vespa is more refined." Bleh.

How would you prefer it to be described?

I don't have a better phrase, it's just that, outside of crude oil, refined is perceived as better, and if your reference point is inexpensive, reliable, easily maintained transportation, a good case can be made for the Buddy over the Vespa.

Of course, some Vespa do come with seats covered in rich, Corinthian leather.

[ericalm]

I hate this phrase. Vespaphiles use it in reference to most all non-Vespa scoots, because it carries a connotation of superiority: "The Buddy is nice and all, but The Vespa is more refined." Bleh.

How would you prefer it to be described?

I don't have a better phrase, it's just that, outside of crude oil, refined is perceived as better, and if your reference point is inexpensive, reliable, easily maintained transportation, a good case can be made for the Buddy over the Vespa.

Of course, some Vespa do come with seats covered in rich, Corinthian leather.

Honestly, although I appreciate the heck out of both scooters, I'm not sure I have a better word for it.

Here's how I described it long ago in my LX150/Buddy comparison:

The Buddy and LX offer very different riding experiences, but I think that's in their intent and design. A Vespa is a very idiosynchratic machine that offers a more mature, sophisticated ride. The Buddy is sort of like a teenager, eager, fearless, capable of doing all the "adult" things, perhaps even faster, but not as smoothly.

ModernVespa and ModernBuddy founder Jess described the Buddy as "twitchier" than an LX, which I think is a pretty good characterization. The Buddy is more "flickable," with more responsive throttle and handling. This may actually be desirable for a lot of urban commuting. However, the LX feels a bit more balanced and stable, especially at higher speeds. On the Buddy, a windscreen, tire and shock upgrades can help compensate for some of this.

[JHScoot]

Of course, some Vespa do come with seats covered in rich, Corinthian leather.

give it a tuck and roll and i'm there

[Lokky]

How would you prefer it to be described?

I don't have a better phrase, it's just that, outside of crude oil, refined is perceived as better, and if your reference point is inexpensive, reliable, easily maintained transportation, a good case can be made for the Buddy over the Vespa.

Of course, some Vespa do come with seats covered in rich, Corinthian leather. <span class='tooltiptrolol'><img src='https://s3.amazonaws.com/TrollEmoticons/lol.png' /><span>lol</span></span>

Honestly, although I appreciate the heck out of both scooters, I'm not sure I have a better word for it.

Here's how I described it long ago in my LX150/Buddy comparison:

The Buddy and LX offer very different riding experiences, but I think that's in their intent and design. A Vespa is a very idiosynchratic machine that offers a more mature, sophisticated ride. The Buddy is sort of like a teenager, eager, fearless, capable of doing all the "adult" things, perhaps even faster, but not as smoothly.

ModernVespa and ModernBuddy founder Jess described the Buddy as "twitchier" than an LX, which I think is a pretty good characterization. The Buddy is more "flickable," with more responsive throttle and handling. This may actually be desirable for a lot of urban commuting. However, the LX feels a bit more balanced and stable, especially at higher speeds. On the Buddy, a windscreen, tire and shock upgrades can help compensate for some of this.

Having ridden Luna's buddy I completely agree with Jess' description.
At high speed the buddy just doesn't feel as planted as most bikes in its size range. Even the Stella felt more stable at 60MPH.

[desmolicious]

I don't have a better phrase, it's just that, outside of crude oil, refined is perceived as better, and if your reference point is inexpensive, reliable, easily maintained transportation, a good case can be made for the Buddy over the Vespa.

Of course, some Vespa do come with seats covered in rich, Corinthian leather. <span class='tooltiptrolol'><img src='https://s3.amazonaws.com/TrollEmoticons/lol.png' /><span>lol</span></span>

Honestly, although I appreciate the heck out of both scooters, I'm not sure I have a better word for it.

Here's how I described it long ago in my LX150/Buddy comparison:

The Buddy and LX offer very different riding experiences, but I think that's in their intent and design. A Vespa is a very idiosynchratic machine that offers a more mature, sophisticated ride. The Buddy is sort of like a teenager, eager, fearless, capable of doing all the "adult" things, perhaps even faster, but not as smoothly.

ModernVespa and ModernBuddy founder Jess described the Buddy as "twitchier" than an LX, which I think is a pretty good characterization. The Buddy is more "flickable," with more responsive throttle and handling. This may actually be desirable for a lot of urban commuting. However, the LX feels a bit more balanced and stable, especially at higher speeds. On the Buddy, a windscreen, tire and shock upgrades can help compensate for some of this.

Having ridden Luna's buddy I completely agree with Jess' description.
At high speed the buddy just doesn't feel as planted as most bikes in its size range. Even the Stella felt more stable at 60MPH.

Yup my Stella 4T felt more planted at speed and in turns than my Buddy BlackJack. Makes me wonder about the fuss of the supposed upmarket suspension on the BlackJack.

I guess instead of saying the Vespa is more refined than the Buddy, we'll just stick with the long hand version and say it is smoother, more planted, has better suspension, higher level of fit and finish, nicer instrumentation.
While the Buddy is quicker, more nimble and less expensive.

[Syd]

cheaper

Since I'm already picking nits, I might as well go all in - to mix a couple metaphors - and suggest less expensive.

[desmolicious]

cheaper

Since I'm already picking nits, I might as well go all in - to mix a couple metaphors - and suggest less expensive.

Corrected!

[Raiderfn311]

Just wanted to say last several posts were great "reads". And you know what Id like to see? Ricardo Montalban in a commercial raving about the "genuine corinthian leather" of a scooter seat.

[PeteH]

Like he did with the Reliant's (another K-car, IIRC) captain's chair on the "Wrath of Khan" blooper reel? Best ever.

[Raiderfn311]

^^^Got it! What does he win Bob?