And the winner was-

Tam Tam · Post by **Tam Tam** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:13 pm

So the Blackjack and the Stella haven't been started in 2 weeks, and I thought, 'just 10 minutes idle time, to get to hear them.'
The Stella took one kick no response, one kick a sputter, and then a push of the electric starter and BOOM!!!!...
But the Blackjack too 7 or 8 tries before she finally turned over...and this is with a brand new battery (well, month old battery).
Did not have them on a tender, either (Weather has been hot here.) The Blackjack was doing this before the battery pooped out back in early March...coincidence or something to be alarmed over? (Alarmed, because the Blackjack eventually wouldn't start anymore after a few months of the ur-ur-urur-ur-ur-ur starts)

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:44 pm

ALWAYS have the battery on a tender when letting the scoot sit. It has nothing to do with outdoor temperature. A new battery usually only holds an 85% charge. If it sat on the shelf for a couple months before you bought it, expect a lower charge. Then you let it sit for another month in the Blackjack. Expect an even lower charge. I'm surprised it started at all. The problem isn't the battery or the scoot, it's you. Use a battery tender immediately and get both scoots up to a 100% charge. If they ever sit longer than a few days, have them hooked up to a tender.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:45 pm

I think something may be wrong. This is just based on my own experience tending to my mother's Blackjack over the past 2 years, give or take.

It sounds to me an issue, to be sure. Most likely from the sitting, but what? I think many would guess gunky carb? But it's a starting issue? I think that can affect starting, too? A dirty carb, that is? But I am no mechanic.

I say this also because my mother's Blackjack sat A LOT over the last 2 years. A couple times it sat over a month. But just a couple times. Only once did I have to crank it i15, maybe 20 times to start it. And that was after one of the month long non start seasons, and in the cold. It did start and run, however. On average this scooter was start and run around 2-3 times a month in a 22 month period. It has never been on a battery tender and is still on its original.

I am more "in the area" these days and now have time for it a couple times a week. So I have been riding it the last month or so. It just had it's first service, runs like a top, and starts first time, every time. Knock on wood.

So based on my own experience I would say don't panic. These things can be fixed. But it's for from "normal" for the Blackjack I tend to.

EDIT: Oh, I see yours has been rode regularly? Different situation, then. Still, I would think that is a good thing, not a bad. It's as if our Blackjacks should be swapped.

Get it checked out. And if it was fine until the battery died and isn't fine since? Maybe start there, again?

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:56 pm

Nah, a 2 or 3 year old Blackjack that has sat for long periods without a tender SHOULD have a bad battery. I think your mom's is the exception rather than the rule. Most scooter batteries that have been properly maintained only last 3 or 4 years before they need to be replaced. 2 or 3 years for a neglected one seems about right.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:18 pm

Really. Wow, that is something. I must admit after that one incident where it hadn't been started for around six weeks and I cranked it around 20 times? Sure, I thought the battery and starter may have been toast. But most of the time, even after sitting two or three weeks, it started second or third try. If not first. Which sometimes it did.

Scoot just crossed 1000 miles this past weekend. It's been a good scoot, it seems. Hope it's good luck continues.

Anyway, hope you get this worked out, Tam. And as said, look to the battery, I suppose.

Lokky · Post by **Lokky** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:41 pm

Regardless of the state of your battery if the kickstarter is also refusing to work you have a problem.

Even without a battery your kickstart should be able to start you up.

Tam Tam · Post by **Tam Tam** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:15 am

Truth be told, when I'm fit to ride, neither scooter goes more than 3-4 days without riding. The longest either one have ever sat idle before was in 2011 for a week and a half. I alternate which one I ride during the work week, and over the weekend would take each out for a good long ride.
The Blackjack's mileage testifies to it's use - 4644 so far since Nov. 2010. It actually gets ridden more still than my Stella (aprox. 1700 miles since April 2011).
Hell, fortunately, it's still under warranty so if it does poop out again, then back to the shop

Lokky · Post by **Lokky** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:12 pm

Also to consider: with the Stella when you don't ride for a bit you can always close the fuel petcock and burn all the fuel left in the carb. You don't have that option with a buddy unless you go in and drain the carb manually.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:50 pm

Sheesh Tam, I thought I was beginning to rack up miles!

They really are just too darn much fun.

I have a tender but no place to plug it in where my scoots are parked! if I were to 'tend' them i would involve running an extension cord out the front door and leaving the scoots relatively unsecure.

I've been thinking about just taking the battery out of the Zuma and finding a place in the house to plug it in when I'm not using it that much.

Edwub · Post by **Edwub** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:01 pm

These battery threads always surprise me. On my last scoot, I mistreated the crap out of it. I bought an '05 Honda Metro in 2009, with the original battery. Rode that until 2011, so the battery was 6 years old by the time I got rid of it. I would turn it on, NOT wait for a warm up, and scoot off. Oftentimes for less than a third of a mile (when I'd go out for lunch). So I'd have multiple on/offs throughout the day, for a round trip of less than 10 miles.

It always started perfectly fine, and never had an issue with it.

Are the batteries really that sensitive in Buddy scooters, or are people being (no offense intended) way over protective?

I feel like I've seen dozens of posts of people who essentially never let their battery go without a tender for longer than a day. (And a few people, though a much smaller minority) that never use one.

I only bring up my Metro because the rides were so short and so frequent that I'm surprised I *didnt* have battery problems. I don't know enough about scooters to know if I had a magical one, or whether the battery demands are different on larger scoots.

I've noticed my Blur doesn't "insta-start" like it did in the first few months. Sometimes I felt like it'd turn on even before I pushed the electric starter button, precogniscient!

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:06 pm

Your results might be a little different in a place that has winter.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:10 pm

Edwub wrote:Are the batteries really that sensitive in Buddy scooters, or are people being (no offense intended) way over protective?

The original battery on our Buddy died after 3 years. We faithfully used a tender during the off season and that was still what we got. My experience has been that the small batteries used in motorcycles and scooters just don't have a very long life, by and large.

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:05 pm

It seems batteries are just really variable regardless of brand. I've had car batteries that lasted 8 years and some that lasted 4 years. You seem to luck out with some and not others.

Tam Tam · Post by **Tam Tam** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:08 pm

skully93 wrote:Sheesh Tam, I thought I was beginning to rack up miles!

They really are just too darn much fun.

Too darn much fun? Skully, to quote the late great Issac Hayes -

"You dammmmnnnn right...."

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:20 pm

The original post sounds like the battery was fine, if you pressed the starter button a few times and it whirred but the bike didn't start right away, that's fuel delivery, not the battery. That's pretty normal for a bike that's been sitting, especially if you don't have fuel injection.

Bb

Edwub · Post by **Edwub** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:25 pm

Pete - you're right, I wasn't thinking of actual winters. I did grow up near Washington DC, so I haven't always been California spoiled

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:32 pm

Yep, although I understand hot weather can be equally damaging.

Modern Buddy

And the winner was-

And the winner was-

wow, hope it's not the battery as it is new!