Psycho or 170i

scoot2work · Post by **scoot2work** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:57 pm

I am trying to decide what scooter to buy and I was almost dead set on the 170i until I saw the Psyco. I know it's a 125 carb. compared to a 168 EFI, but what's the concensus from experienced riders? It looks like the Psycho had lots of a WOW factor at first and they were expected to sell out, but there still seems to be a lot of them unsold out there. Must be for good reason. It it really worth having a number out of 174 or is the 170i the best route to go? Will the Psychos be worth any more in the future or have any kind of collector status?

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:02 pm

Like anything worth collecting, I bet you'd have to not use it and keep it for 30 years to make it worth doing so, which won't get you to work!

Either one is going to be fun and get pretty darn similar gas mileage from the numbers I've seen. the 170 might be a bit faster though.

Owners of each model should probably chime hereafter, but I know in my situation, I needed a kickstart as no plugin for the battery was available. Occasionally I might just have to lose a battery, and I've made peace with it for now.

Since they're the same body, and not a ton of difference in cost, which would you prefer to ride?

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:02 pm

If money is of no consequence, I would buy the 170i. You can always add the black paint, suspension, and brakes later on the 170i. But you can't add fuel injection and a new cyclinder kit to get your Psycho to a 170i.

In other words, you can turn your 170i into a more powerful Psycho. But you can't turn a Pyscho into a 170i.

And like skully said, you won't own it long enough for it to become a collectors item. He also brings up a good point about not being able to kick start with a 170i.

scoot2work · Post by **scoot2work** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:08 pm

Good point K1dude. Looks like the 170i has more possibilities.

easy · Post by **easy** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:18 pm

170 you need a Gen. Dealer to get codes from the computer the others not so muuch

desmolicious · Post by **desmolicious** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:30 pm

A different trim level on a scooter is not going to make it collectible.

It seems you like the Psycho, try to ride both..

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:35 pm

If the 125 will suit your needs perfectly and you really want a Psycho really no reason not to get it. IOW if you don't want to go upwards of 70mph at any time and 55mph is fine. And if you don't mind cold starting and an auto choke and all that goes with. Hills to climb? Get a 170i.

Otherwise the Pyscho is a few hundred dollars less. And honestly, are you really going to make all those changes on a 170 once you have it? And how much additional would it cost you? Probably near $1000, total. Maybe you can DIY? I have no idea. But it is still a project. And unless committed it will never get done. Happens all the time. Especially the cosmetic part. The Psycho has exclusive tires that are important to its look. And a $100 low profile seat. That is around $200 right there alone.

Is this an argument in favor of The Psycho? Yup, it is. But again, only if it suits your (or anybody reading this) needs. That is key. If so, you'll never miss a 170i if never lived with one.

I mention it's aesthetics's because that is important to the Psycho / Blackjack and a main reason for purchase for many, all other things being equal. Let's face it, it's unique and looks quality. You will feel sort of special riding it. That is the truth.

Not as much given a green Buddy with a racing stripe. Brown, maybe? The faster silver? Meh...

You could swap parts out on a 170 and sell the stock. But it's still a lot of work and time just to spend more money. So if you want a true project, knock yourself out.

But if you want one of the LAST 125cc Buddy's that will be produced and sold with a simple carb (in the bigger picture), an out of the box brake, suspension, and tire upgrade, a plated and numbered "Special Edition" scooter with a unique identity of its own (well, along with 173 others) and just like feeling a little different then others...get the Psycho.

If it's less expensive, what you REALLY want, and will suit your performance needs now and three years from now, there is no reason not to.

Look on the board and see how many users really wanted a BJ? Or wish they had bought one when they could have. Quite a bit. If you want one, don't be one of them

Oh, and a rider here put 40,000m on a 125 and it is still good. Currently has almost 30,000 on a 150. No worries, it's a good scooter. Just has a different fuel system. I heard the one the Psycho has is proven over many decades, however. Should be ok, I think.

scoot2work · Post by **scoot2work** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:00 pm

Both are rated at 60+ mph and 90 mpg, so both look to similar in speed and milage.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:23 pm

^Don't you believe that. It's not a lie, just not the whole truth.

The 170 has a higher top speed and will reach 60mph easily. The 125 will barely get to 60mph, if at all.

The 170i has better mpg with its EFI.

I believe those two things are accepted facts.

You need to pick the scooter which suits your needs first, and suits your style second. If the Psycho does both, great. If not, pass.

If you can compromise anything, consider carefully what it is.

viney266 · Post by **viney266** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:32 am

The 170 is probably the smarter scoot to go with.

However, the psycho comes with a lot of nice bits for the money. So, its a toss up. The 170 is probably more practical, and you can put all the psycho bits on as you see fit. Soooo 170 I think

Raiderfn311 · Post by **Raiderfn311** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:21 am

I believe its been said but I'll say it again. A 170 BlackJack would be so freakin great. That won't happen Im afraid, as heard from the horses mouth(Phil) in an interview. Im still waiting for that damn 270cc cruiser so I can hang with a GTS300 with a wad of cash I DIDNT spend on the Vespa.

run_sarah_run · Post by **run_sarah_run** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:57 am

I am a little new to the scooter world, but definitely not to the sport bike industry. I own a Psycho and although I've only had it for about 3 weeks or so I would like to say that it reaches 60 quite easily. I know what the brochures or even the dealers say, but actually riding one and seeing how fast I'm going I can almost be certain that 60 is not at all hard to get to on a Psycho. My husband used his radar gun (not exactly what he is suppose to do) to test it also and I hit 65 with the radar. On the other hand, if money is not an issue and the speed factor wows you, look into the 170. Honestly, if you aren't going to joy riding for speed or anything a 125 will get you anywhere just fine. Thats just my two cents. Hopefully you come to a decision soon. Most of the dealers I know are sold out of the Psycho though. Again, good luck on your shopping!

Sarah

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:53 am

I just want to post to avoid any confusion on a buyers part. If in need of a 170, get it.

The 125 is a goer, but 60-65mph is an ultimate top speed. It takes some time to get there, and if not it is most likely under very favorable conditions. Throw a headwind, incline, or course pavement it's way and results will vary.

On the other hand a 170i should get to 60-65mph+ and stay there even under somewhat adverse riding conditions.

Its got more motor and EFI, after all

Raiderfn311 · Post by **Raiderfn311** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:29 pm

Good 0.02 Sarah.

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:35 pm

If you're doing everything yourself, turning a 170i into a Psycho twin shouldn't cost $1000... If you just order the upgraded parts (brakes and suspension) from Scooterworks the total is about $600. A couple cans of paint and clear coat shouldn't cost more than $50. The low pro seat is about $100. So that totals out to about $750... and that's only if you felt you actually NEEDED (or REALLY wanted) all of the upgrades the Psycho has to offer, and felt the 170i was lacking.
I personally find the suspension and brakes perfectly suited to the bike, and I wouldn't want a low pro seat just for comfort reasons. Maybe some day when these parts are well worn I will upgrade them rather than replace them with new stock parts, but the stock parts are a-okay for now. If you don't want or need the extras right off the rip then you are left only with the paint... and removing the stripes from and painting these scoots is easy as pie as long as you're patient.
The only thing that could really push the value over $1000 is your time spent putting all of the extra do-dads on there and painting, how do you value your time spent tinkering with the scooter? You will be learning how some of the things work on it, how to fix those things should something go wrong, and how to take it completely apart. IMHO it's never a bad thing to learn the ins and outs of your vehicle, and well worth the time doing the work yourself.

Either way, I'm sure some day there will be a special edition 170i. It's still a new model- it's not even included on many of the scooter parts sites yet! Heck, they're just now releasing it in the international colors, and all they had to do was change out the panels and slap a couple different stickers on there.

With all of that said, I love my 170i. It kept up well with the Sportster on a long, cold, windy, and hilly 3 hour (no highway) trip to Vermont, and I couldn't ask for more.

The only reason you would need a dealer close at hand is IF you had the CEL come on for some reason or another.
There was a problem with the first few of them built that has since been fixed, but that required dealer's attention.
The first service suggests a trip to the dealer for them to perform the service and "check things" with the ECU, but all they really check is the air/fuel mix, which you can check by looking at the spark plug anyway. I did the first service myself (with some help) and I don't see myself going back to the dealer for this scoot any time soon *knock on wood* I might go back up there to say hi, see what's up, and hang out in Burlington, but that's it.

Raiderfn311 · Post by **Raiderfn311** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:59 pm

AWinn, the BJ was priced to where you got the front and rear sus., pipe, and brake at a significant discount. Just sayin. And I really enjoy doing oil changes, and I just did my first valve adjustment. BUT, I would pay a good mechanic to do the rest, not because I cant do it(although many couldnt) but because I dont mind paying for that service. My only days off are my weekends, and I only get 75%(at best) of the things I want to do done. While I admire a person, such as yourself, that loves to do basically all their own stuff, its not for everyone(probably not for most, IMHO).

napohaku24 · Post by **napohaku24** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:02 pm

I was tossed up with the same question! I went to the dealership w/ cash in hand knowing that the Psycho was my ride, but when they pulled out the 170i (because the Psycho had not been serviced - no battery installed etc.) and i found myselft debating on my choice again.

What made my final decision was the fact that I was brand new to the scoot world and really didnt need anything bigger than the Psycho at the point. Me 2nd guessing myself on the Psycho decision was only an impulse.... i had done a little reading on the buddy's and found that the buddy 125 was very popular and reliable. Ultimately, i just didnt need anything bigger than that Psycho for my 1st bike so i consciously chose not let the impulse for the 170i take over my lust for the Psycho.

I bought the Psycho and have put 60mi on it in the last 10days....i absolutely love it - and am so glad i chose it over the 170i Green/Brown buddy.

Hope this helps - even if slightly. Good Luck!!

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:14 pm

Look at it this way - if you decide to sell the Psycho and upgrade to the 170i at some future point, having #174 "The Last Of The Psychos" might count for an extra dollar or two. Not big-time collectible, but unique. Same might be said for the earlier special editions - the Atomic Fireball and GB Stellas. I got a little verklempt when I saw that somebody bought a Fireball Stella and repainted it.

AWinn6889 · Post by **AWinn6889** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:42 pm

But we're talking about the Psycho, not the BJ. I can appreciate that all of those extras are at a significant discount when bought already on the scoot, but good luck finding a new one (BJ) these days anyway.

Sidenote: Even if you somehow find one that's close to new at a dealer, for instance there's one that my local d-bag scooter shop has in stock that's a bit scratched up with only 14 miles on it, you're going to get taken to the cleaners for it. This one DOES NOT come with the warranty, the Prima pipe, and for some reason it doesn't have mirrors either. He still wants MSRP for it anyway because it's a limited edition, and he's going to charge extra for new mirrors and the Prima pipe. My other concern with it is that it's been sitting for years without being ridden. So rather than end up with a scoot I was going to have to dump more money into, I paid a heck of a lot more $$ to have a brand new-in crate 170i shipped there for me.

Anyway, as far as the Psycho goes, it only has an upgraded front brake, forks, and rear shock. For aesthetics it has the low pro seat.
The OP is thinking of buying either the Psycho or a 170i... and I was mentioning how if the only thing that was needed was the look of the Psycho, it can be achieved fairly easily with a 170i. Hell, if I wasn't concerned with being visible at night, I probably would have chosen matte black and done the whole scoot, rather than just do only the side panels in purple.
Both the Psycho and the BJ look bad ass, I'm not going to deny that, but the only thing that makes them truly unique is the paint job... everything else is bolt on parts that can be bought from a shop or ordered online.

While I know most people trust their dealers and mechanics to take care of their stuff, that's fine for them and I'm glad if they're happy with that, but I don't. I know most people don't think they have the time to do stuff themselves, or maybe they don't have the tools... whatever the reason may be, they choose not to do things themselves, and pay someone (way too much) to do it for them. Like you, my only days off are my weekends, and even those are packed with school and client work that I didn't get done during the week... but I manage to squeeze time out when I need to to work on my vehicles, whether it for fun/a break from reality or necessity. (That's also why I haven't finished the t-shirt designs I was working on, or started on a seat cover or saddle bags for myself yet.)

If you're like me, and you're hundreds of miles away from your nearest (respectable) dealer, there isn't much choice but to learn to do everything yourself. ModernBuddy is an amazing resource, and almost all of the info you could ever need is already here, or being posted here day by day.

I suggest to everyone trying to learn, because it's good stuff to know!
If you know a decent amount about what's going on in the machine that you're in/on, when something happens to it and you're stuck on the side of the road or even in your driveway, you should have enough knowledge to at least know what's wrong. Maybe, if you have the right tools, you would be able to fix it right then and there and continue on your way, if not, it's still a good way to avoid a dealer/mechanic telling you it's this, when really it's that, forcing you to spend more time without, and more money on, your vehicle, whatever vehicle it may be.

Raiderfn311 · Post by **Raiderfn311** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:59 pm

True dat.

scoot2work · Post by **scoot2work** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:02 pm

Thanks for all the replies and all the good informations that everyone has given. I have actually made a decision. I have decided to go with..........drumroll.....................the 170i! I was much more impressed with the extra power and EFI than I was with the limited edition, performanced modified 125. I put down a deposit today for the Zephyr Silver and will pick it up next week. I will let you all know how I like it after I've had a chance to try it out. Sorry Psycho riders, I know you were wishing for a different outcome, but at least I bought a Genuine and not another make.

This is a great forum and I look forward to being part of all that ride and live the Genuine Buddy- being a 50, 125, 170i, BlackJack, Psycho, and whatever concoction the folks at Genuine may dream up in the future. What? A high performance 170i. If there's enough talk, I'm sure Genuine will listen. Maybe there's some left over parts from the Psycho and BJ????

Raiderfn311 · Post by **Raiderfn311** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:13 pm

Awesome! Silver seems to be the color of choice with the 170's. Youre in for a ton of fun. Congrats.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:24 pm

AWinn6889 wrote:But we're talking about the Psycho, not the BJ. I can appreciate that all of those extras are at a significant discount when bought already on the scoot, but good luck finding a new one (BJ) these days anyway.

Sidenote: Even if you somehow find one that's close to new at a dealer, for instance there's one that my local d-bag scooter shop has in stock that's a bit scratched up with only 14 miles on it, you're going to get taken to the cleaners for it. This one DOES NOT come with the warranty, the Prima pipe, and for some reason it doesn't have mirrors either. He still wants MSRP for it anyway because it's a limited edition, and he's going to charge extra for new mirrors and the Prima pipe. My other concern with it is that it's been sitting for years without being ridden. So rather than end up with a scoot I was going to have to dump more money into, I paid a heck of a lot more $$ to have a brand new-in crate 170i shipped there for me.

Anyway, as far as the Psycho goes, it only has an upgraded front brake, forks, and rear shock. For aesthetics it has the low pro seat.
The OP is thinking of buying either the Psycho or a 170i... and I was mentioning how if the only thing that was needed was the look of the Psycho, it can be achieved fairly easily with a 170i. Hell, if I wasn't concerned with being visible at night, I probably would have chosen matte black and done the whole scoot, rather than just do only the side panels in purple.
Both the Psycho and the BJ look bad ass, I'm not going to deny that, but the only thing that makes them truly unique is the paint job... everything else is bolt on parts that can be bought from a shop or ordered online.

While I know most people trust their dealers and mechanics to take care of their stuff, that's fine for them and I'm glad if they're happy with that, but I don't. I know most people don't think they have the time to do stuff themselves, or maybe they don't have the tools... whatever the reason may be, they choose not to do things themselves, and pay someone (way too much) to do it for them. Like you, my only days off are my weekends, and even those are packed with school and client work that I didn't get done during the week... but I manage to squeeze time out when I need to to work on my vehicles, whether it for fun/a break from reality or necessity. (That's also why I haven't finished the t-shirt designs I was working on, or started on a seat cover or saddle bags for myself yet.)

If you're like me, and you're hundreds of miles away from your nearest (respectable) dealer, there isn't much choice but to learn to do everything yourself. ModernBuddy is an amazing resource, and almost all of the info you could ever need is already here, or being posted here day by day.

I suggest to everyone trying to learn, because it's good stuff to know!
If you know a decent amount about what's going on in the machine that you're in/on, when something happens to it and you're stuck on the side of the road or even in your driveway, you should have enough knowledge to at least know what's wrong. Maybe, if you have the right tools, you would be able to fix it right then and there and continue on your way, if not, it's still a good way to avoid a dealer/mechanic telling you it's this, when really it's that, forcing you to spend more time without, and more money on, your vehicle, whatever vehicle it may be.

Unless ever going over 55-60mph or have a need to cruise at that speed there is no difference in power. Same as the 125-150. Acceleration and passing power is the same. It is for all intent and purposes the same engine.

Top end will be increased, gas mileage improved. But unless those things are a priority, I say choose style over substance in this case. Because MOST will never get around to changing the style / performance parts. And if they truly want them in the first place....well their is a comparable cheaper scooter which already has it. But, a choice has been made and a scoot ordered. And it's a good scoot. One with modern EFI as carbs are somehow the devil, now. On another board some disparage 10in wheels, too. God forbid the Buddy ever go 12in lest we start throwing our old scoots out

I leave you all with this quote from a review comparing a 170i to a BlackJack. Just insert "Psycho" in its place:

Before I talk about the handling and braking of the 170i let me just say that I have been spoiled by the Buddy Blackjack. That scooter comes equipped with brakes and suspension that are class-leading and the Buddy 170i just isn't to the same level. That's not to say that the Buddy 170i isn't a hard-braking-flickable-blast-to-ride... it is. It's just not the insane machine that the Blackjack was (unless you can find a dealer with one, a new Blackjack is a thing of the past)

Well, a thing of the past +174 more called a Psycho

This post is more for future buyers, now. If you want a Psycho or used BJ, get it. You'll never regret it. Every picture tells a story, and scraping the centerstand has never been so much fun