I Don't Understand Vespanomics

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:32 pm

Maybe I am missing something.

Vespa (along with Gap Inc.) has announced a new limited edition LX50 for $5,999 - see
http://sev.prnewswire.com/retail/200711 ... 007-1.html

Now, how does Vespanomics work, exactly? Am I supposed to be thinking "gee, why should I buy one 125cc Genuine Buddy when I can spend twice as much and get a 50cc Vespa?"

The math says I can get two 125cc Buddys for the cost of a single 50cc Vespa LX. Of course, there must be some value to those stripes on the LX50... but I can't think of what that would be.

I am confused here.

Shellee · Post by **Shellee** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:17 pm

I can't believe that price!!

weaseltamer · Post by **weaseltamer** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:21 am

the biggest failure is a lack of pictures

toddrw2251 · Post by **toddrw2251** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:29 am

I believe the Vespa logos on the limited edition bike must be diamond encrusted platinum. It keeps the weight down and allows a 50cc bike to compete with 125cc's

ellen · Post by **ellen** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:02 am

Ha.. That price is nuts. Though I'm sure people will buy it before doing research. Then post on Modern Vespa asking how they can make it go faster

ellen · Post by **ellen** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:10 am

Via the BBS http://scooterbbs.com/bbs/dcboard.php?a ... 0480&page=

thepezident · Post by **thepezident** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:41 am

Does it come with big red clown shoes??

Kevin K · Post by **Kevin K** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:30 am

Pride Vespa!
-K

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:32 am

I've always had a soft spot for Vespas. Love the styling as well as the fit and finish of them. Cosmetically, they're the top of the scooter pyramid. I've also ridden many Vespas and have mixed feelings with all of them. The ET and LX 150 are pretty and beautifully assembled but dynamically inferior to a Buddy 125. The GT and GTS are amazing rides with fabulous power but give up a lot in looks to the LX. I'm not saying the big Vespas are ugly, they're just not as pretty as the small frames. More importantly, for the same price, a smart shopper who wants the best ride for his/her money can buy any number of amazing motorcycles that will do far more than the GTS and return lower service costs.

When I bought my Buddy last year I really wanted a Vespa. I had myself talked into it for all the reasons you'd talk yourself into buying something that's more expensive than anything comparable. But, unlike lots of Vespa owners (that's my only dig, I promise), I like to test ride and compare. I spent a good long time test riding a Buddy and bought it on the spot. Normally I'd agonize for days about this type of decision, but the Buddy made my mind up for me. I'll still probably wind up buying a Vespa someday. Who knows, maybe the new S will do it for me?

Check out some of the threads on Modern Vespa for insight into Vespanomics. Currently, there's one comparing the Stella with the PX150 that will open your eyes. There are also two threads on new dealer observations by Femsatronic that will shed lots of light on the disease that is Vespa lust.

mattgordon · Post by **mattgordon** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:46 am

ellen wrote:Via the BBS http://scooterbbs.com/bbs/dcboard.php?a ... 0480&page=

Mufugly....

ranzchic · Post by **ranzchic** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:25 am

I do. You're paying for the brand and it's associated lifestyle.

I still like the look of the older Vespas. They used to be the beckon of cheap, utilitarian transportation but they're now the beacon of the yuppies and uptown hipsters and other brands like Buddy, Honda and Yamaha have moved in to fill that cheap, utilitarian void.

tempalte · Post by **tempalte** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:14 pm

It all has to do with the sinking dollar. The euro is at an all time high with the dollar. That $6,000 Vespa would have cost $3,500 back in 2002.

In 2002 one US dollar was worth 1.14 Euros, now one US dollar is worth 0.69 euros.

China tries to hold its currency closer to the dollar. So expect all things European to go up in price.

Vespa's are high, but the lower dollar makes them outrageously high.

weaseltamer · Post by **weaseltamer** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:04 pm

tempalte wrote:
In 2002 one US dollar was worth 1.14 Euros, now one US dollar is worth 0.69 euros.

wow i didn't know our exchange was so bad.

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:48 pm

It all has to do with the sinking dollar. The euro is at an all time high with the dollar. That $6,000 Vespa would have cost $3,500 back in 2002.

Yes and no. With this particular limited edition Vespa, you're paying an insane premium for the limited edition factor. A new LX-50 today is $3200 and an LX-150 is $4200.

When I bought my Mojito about 4 years ago, the corresponding Vespa ETs were less than today's LX's, but not much less. I'm sure someone here bought an ET back in 2003 or 2004 and can tell us exactly what they paid.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:54 pm

I have to say, even most Vespa owners such as myself saw this and went, "Huh?!"

It's not about Vespanomics. It's about rich people with nothing better to do with their money. These editions are usually not purchased by die-had scooterists but by folks with a lot of dough to throw around who just have to have something unique or special that will be more of a curiosity piece/conversation starter than anything else.

The Vespa boutique limited editions of past years have retained their value quite well, and there's still some demand for them. Someone from Sherman Oaks Vespa told an anecdote on MV about a woman wanting to buy one of the Coach ltd. ed. Vespas (which was in for service) because she had the matching bag.

Now limited editions such as the 60th anniversary Vespas, well that's something else altogether. The LXV, mmm.

poop colored buddy · Post by **poop colored buddy** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:16 pm

it looks like clown throw up.

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:49 pm

ericalm wrote:It's about rich people with nothing better to do with their money. These editions are usually not purchased by die-had scooterists but by folks with a lot of dough to throw around who just have to have something unique or special that will be more of a curiosity piece/conversation starter than anything else.

And those same folks shop at the Gap?

Maybe Mickey Rourke will buy one after Florida confiscates and crushes his current Vespa.

toddrw2251 · Post by **toddrw2251** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:38 pm

Im not saying I don't understand why Vespas cost more than Buddys I am saying I don't get paying $5,999 for an ugly limited edition LX50 from the Gap.

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:50 pm

poop colored buddy wrote:it looks like clown throw up.

Before you get laughing too hard at Piaggio/Vespa, remember this little scooter from our favorite scooter company.

It looks like Ronald Mc Donald designed it.

Drumwoulf · Post by **Drumwoulf** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:57 pm

gt1000 wrote:I've always had a soft spot for Vespas. Love the styling as well as the fit and finish of them. Cosmetically, they're the top of the scooter pyramid. I've also ridden many Vespas and have mixed feelings with all of them. The ET and LX 150 are pretty and beautifully assembled but dynamically inferior to a Buddy 125. The GT and GTS are amazing rides with fabulous power but give up a lot in looks to the LX. I'm not saying the big Vespas are ugly, they're just not as pretty as the small frames. More importantly, for the same price, a smart shopper who wants the best ride for his/her money can buy any number of amazing motorcycles that will do far more than the GTS and return lower service costs.
When I bought my Buddy last year I really wanted a Vespa. I had myself talked into it for all the reasons you'd talk yourself into buying something that's more expensive than anything comparable. But, unlike lots of Vespa owners (that's my only dig, I promise), I like to test ride and compare. I spent a good long time test riding a Buddy and bought it on the spot. Normally I'd agonize for days about this type of decision, but the Buddy made my mind up for me. I'll still probably wind up buying a Vespa someday. Who knows, maybe the new S will do it for me?

I bought the Buddy 125 to have fun on a small frame scooter, because I read everywhere how it was so much better than a Vespa LX150, and at much less cost too! And geez, after riding it for a while, I discovered that it also had a much better suspension than my other scooter, my 250cc Honda Reflex, which was jarring my teeth loose over the smallest of road tar creases...

Then I test rode a Vespa GT and a GTS (just for the hell of it, no real intention to buy), and I discovered just how far advanced Piaggio/Vespa is now over most all the Honda scooters available in the USA. So the Reflex went, traded in to a Honda Vespa dealer where I got a brand new GT200 for a good price.
Currently the GT200 can be got for $4200 to $4700, depending upon whether it's an '06 or an '07! And AFAIC they're just as good, ride just as smooth, and are almost as fast as their bigger bros, the GTS250!

And a new Honda Reflex? How about $5300 to $5900, depending upon ABS or not? And believe me, as someone who's owned both, there is absolutely NO comparison between the rides of a Honda Reflex and a Vespa GT200!
The Reflex sucks mightily next to the GT Vespas! The GT200 is quicker than the 250cc Reflex, the motor is far smoother with much less vibration (the Reflex shakes like a Harley at idle), and the GT's suspension sails over the rough road spots with the greatest of ease. Plus Vespa dealers know and appreciate scooters, while most Honda dealers only want to sell $15K+ motorcycles and barely bother with the scooter crowd!

Vespa economics? AFAIC they're a lot more sensible right now than the current state of Honda scooter economics!

And the Buddy? Unbelievable quality, service, and performance for the price, IMO. Never mind the stoopid Gap Vespa LX50; IMO anyone who buys an LX150 (or a Kymco 150) when they can get one of these better peforming 125 Buddys for less, is nuts!!

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:58 pm

Kind of silly to buy an under-powered LX50 for $6K when you can nearly buy 2 Buddys or 2 Kymco 150s for that same price.

I will disagree with assessment of the Kymco 150. The People 150 is faster than the Buddy and the ride is much more refined. But the Buddy, because of it small frame, is more nimble. The Kymco Bet&Win 150, I understand, kicks the Buddy's butt.

buddyboop · Post by **buddyboop** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:12 am

mattgordon wrote:
ellen wrote:Via the BBS http://scooterbbs.com/bbs/dcboard.php?a ... 0480&page=

Mufugly....

Heeeyyyy! I think it is cute! I wouldn't buy it but I like the stripes!

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:47 am

buddyboop wrote: Heeeyyyy! I think it is cute! I wouldn't buy it but I like the stripes!

Seven cans of Krylon, a roll of tape and a seat cover by Crystal and your there! Total cost probably under $100!

Drumwoulf · Post by **Drumwoulf** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:52 am

pcbikedude wrote:I will disagree with assessment of the Kymco 150. The People 150 is faster than the Buddy and the ride is much more refined. But the Buddy, because of it small frame, is more nimble. The Kymco Bet&Win 150, I understand, kicks the Buddy's butt.

Perhaps. I dunno for sure about that tho.

But they are, after all, 50cc's larger...
And IMO the People is butt ugly, and it has those skinny tires that get caught and make you wobble around on bridge gratings! I rode MC's for years, and I throughly dislike skinny tires, would much rather have smaller, fatter ones, for traction.. And have you sat on a 150 (or a 250) B+W? It's seat tries it's best to slide you forward into the legshield...

But the big catch is that both those bikes are about $1G more than the 125 Buddy. And I don't think they're worth it.. (Else I would've got me one instead of the Buddy, right?)

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 5:46 am

Drumwoulf wrote: Perhaps. I dunno for sure about that tho. But they are, after all, 50cc's larger...
And IMO the People is butt ugly, and it has those skinny tires that get caught and make you wobble around on bridge gratings! I rode MC's for years, and I throughly dislike skinny tires, would much rather have smaller, fatter ones, for traction.. And have you sat on a 150 (or a 250) B+W? It's seat tries it's best to slide you forward into the legshield...

But the big catch is that both those bikes are about $1G more than the 125 Buddy. And I don't think they're worth it.. (Else I would've got me one instead of the Buddy, right?)

Kymcos are only 27cc larger (technically 152ccs). I have both scooters. The People tires are very stable and allows you to lean further without scraping. The Buddy has a much more jittery ride. You would feel more unstable on a Buddy. My example I have is on a grooved road way. The Buddy dances and pitches all over the place. To maintain stability I have to slow down. The People, you hardly notice the grooves.

Where the Buddy excels is in cornering. The Buddy responds to counter-steering more quickly.

The Buddy also kicks the LX150's butt. It's just plain faster and it out handles the Vespa also.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Buddy. I love taking it on rallies.
But for longer rides, I rather take the People 150. The People is also a better commuter bike.

BTW a new '07 Buddy is about $3000 OTD. I just got a new '07 People 150 for $2700 OTD. The B&W is the same price. That's right, less than the Buddy. You just got to know where to find the deals.

Post by **ericalm** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:22 pm

Yay! I get to play defender of Vespadom again! I think this is one of the times when a car analogy fits.

A VW Rabbit, for instance, is a quality car that's relatively inexpensive, will last hundreds of thousands of miles, has loads of features and options, and performs quite well. The Rabbit probably meets the needs of most driver on the road—room for 5, storage capacity when you need it, and if you need more power you can get a bigger engine, a GTi or
other VW option.

So why the hell would anyone drive anything other than a VW Rabbit? Especially something that's slower, more expensive, or gets worse gas mileage? It makes no sense at all! People who drive Mercedes must be nuts!

Because, basically, it's not just about those specs. I'm not saying that there's not a certain premium paid for getting a Vespa. But there are also qualitative differences to support some of that expense. The Vespa certainly wins over in the fit and finish department. The quality of the construction is far beyond that of a PGO. Though the monocoque steel frame is very expensive to repair, from the 5 totaled Buddys I've seen, I suspect the Vespa frame can survive a more severe crash. The question of which handles better is largely a matter of what you're accustomed to and personal preference. I think the Vespa handles more smoothly and is easier to control. The Buddy reacts faster, but can also be a little twitchy and a little wild.

All of these scoots (Buddy, LX150, People) have their merits and faults. Of course I love the Buddy, but part of the reason I love it is that it's the best value for the money. Which certainly, IMHO, doesn't make someone nuts for wanting something else.

And it certainly doesn't make this Gap thing any less ridiculous.

toddrw2251 · Post by **toddrw2251** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:05 pm

Yeah. I agree with some of your points. I have a buddy 125 and a Vespa et2 and each bike their pluses. I am a big fan of the metal bikes. I just wonder who would pay an extra 3 grand to have essentially the same bike as a normal lx 50. I am also pretty sure Mercedes doesn't paint their cars like a 1980's ski jacket.

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:00 am

Gap? its Benetton circa 1992!!! yikes. I actually love color so that part could grow on me, but those 50cc vespas are dogs ( the 50 Buddy is faster). what puzzles me is why fashion horses like Vespa and Sarah Jessica Parker would associate themselves with The Gap

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:53 am

ericalm wrote:Yay! I get to play defender of Vespadom again!

Okay you can defend the comparison between a station wagon and a sports car.

You'll look great on that Gap LX50.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:02 am

pcbikedude wrote:
ericalm wrote:Yay! I get to play defender of Vespadom again!
Okay you can defend the comparison between a station wagon and a sports car.

It's not comparing a station wagon to a sports car. We're not comparing the Buddy to a MP3 500 or a Bergman. We're comparing fairly similar models—in the car analogy, similar sized coupes or sedans.

pcbikedude wrote:You'll look great on that Gap LX50.

Ahem...

ericalm wrote:And it certainly doesn't make this Gap thing any less ridiculous.

But you're right, I probably would look great on it. I'm just the kind of guy who can rock something like that and get away with it. I just have the sense to choose not to.

Drumwoulf · Post by **Drumwoulf** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:15 am

pcbikedude wrote:
. You would feel more unstable on a Buddy. My example I have is on a grooved road way. The Buddy dances and pitches all over the place. To maintain stability I have to slow down. The People, you hardly notice the grooves.

Where the Buddy excels is in cornering. The Buddy responds to counter-BTW a new '07 Buddy is about $3000 OTD. I just got a new '07 People 150 for $2700 OTD. The B&W is the same price. That's right, less than the Buddy. You just got to know where to find the deals.

You must have a "bad" Buddy!

Mine doesn't dance and pitch on grooved roads hardly at all. (Not near as much as my '91 750 Nighthawk usta!) I took it across a local notorious grated-floor bridge; it was smooth as butter! I doubt you'll get that with those skinny People tires...

And you're right; you hafta know where the deals are. My 2007 Buddy? $2799 OTD. Philadelphia Scooters. -$3K you say? Stay away from that dealer...
And please let me know where you can get Kymco '07 People and B+W 150s for $2700 OTD. I'd really like to know, cause I'd buy them myself and resell them for profit...!!

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:53 am

Drumwoulf wrote:You must have a "bad" Buddy! Mine doesn't dance and pitch on grooved roads hardly at all. (Not near as much as my '91 750 Nighthawk usta!) I took it across a local notorious grated-floor bridge; it was smooth as butter! I doubt you'll get that with those skinny People tires...

Maybe I should say that I still have the original tires on the Buddy.

Drumwoulf wrote:And you're right; you hafta know where the deals are. My 2007 Buddy? $2799 OTD. Philadelphia Scooters. -$3K you say? Stay away from that dealer...

CA has all those stupid fees. Price was plus $300 worth of dealer fees. We only have one choice of dealers in SD County. Purchasing from Motorsports is more than worth those fees.

Drumwoulf wrote:And please let me know where you can get Kymco '07 People and B+W 150s for $2700 OTD. I'd really like to know, cause I'd buy them myself and resell them for profit...!!

I bought a new 07 People 150 for $2700 from the dealership here in Eastern SD County. Also, they have the B&W for the same price. This dealership does not charge dealer prep or destination fees. Check it here: http://www.atvrent.com/Sales/motorcycle/motorcycles.htm
This dealer mainly sells ATVs, so the salespeople know little about scooters.

louie · Post by **louie** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:03 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:
buddyboop wrote: Heeeyyyy! I think it is cute! I wouldn't buy it but I like the stripes!

Seven cans of Krylon, a roll of tape and a seat cover by Crystal and your there! Total cost probably under $100!

i'm with you bocca buddy, it's kind a cute. you know $50 cute.
and please that black cat, yikes.
isn't it nice that there are different strokes for different fokes of all cultural and income levels?

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:26 pm

louie wrote:isn't it nice that there are different strokes for different fokes of all cultural and income levels?

Yep! It's just too bad my cultural level usually exceeds my income level. Gotta fix that someday.

louie · Post by **louie** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:30 pm

ericalm wrote:
louie wrote:isn't it nice that there are different strokes for different fokes of all cultural and income levels?
Yep! It's just too bad my cultural level usually exceeds my income level. Gotta fix that someday.

it's really is a balancing act.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 1:10 am

ericalm wrote:
louie wrote:isn't it nice that there are different strokes for different fokes of all cultural and income levels?
Yep! It's just too bad my cultural level usually exceeds my income level. Gotta fix that someday.

CULTURE? WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING CULTURE!

Drumwoulf · Post by **Drumwoulf** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:47 am

pcbikedude wrote:I bought a new 07 People 150 for $2700 from the dealership here in Eastern SD County. Also, they have the B&W for the same price. This dealership does not charge dealer prep or destination fees. Check it here: http://www.atvrent.com/Sales/motorcycle/motorcycles.htm
This dealer mainly sells ATVs, so the salespeople know little about scooters.

Okay, you're right, bro.

Those are really excellent prices for Kymco scoots! My scooter shop has it the other way around, with better prices for 125 Buddys than most other 150cc scoots, including Kymcos...

louie · Post by **louie** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:24 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:
ericalm wrote:
louie wrote:isn't it nice that there are different strokes for different fokes of all cultural and income levels?
Yep! It's just too bad my cultural level usually exceeds my income level. Gotta fix that someday.
CULTURE? WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING CULTURE!

that's good cuz i ain't got none.

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:25 pm

ericalm wrote:It's just too bad my cultural level usually exceeds my income level. Gotta fix that someday.

That's easy to fix, lower your cultural level.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:18 pm

lobsterman wrote:
ericalm wrote:It's just too bad my cultural level usually exceeds my income level. Gotta fix that someday.
That's easy to fix, lower your cultural level.

I tried that but then they started showing comic book artists in galleries and museums, animation got respect from film aesthetes, and much of the lowbrow pop culture and art I embraced somehow became respectable. Even television—which I eschewed for almost a decade then "rediscovered" in the late '90s—has gotten so good that I can no longer call it a guilty pleasure.

Maybe I'm just ahead of my time.

Sunil · Post by **Sunil** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:38 pm

louie · Post by **louie** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:37 am

lobsterman wrote:
ericalm wrote:It's just too bad my cultural level usually exceeds my income level. Gotta fix that someday.
That's easy to fix, lower your cultural level.

yeah, like i said, it's a balancing act.

gt1000 · Post by **gt1000** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:09 am

Sunil wrote:...

Only $4999

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:18 pm

It reminds me a little of the enormous scarf that Tom Baker wore as the fouth Doctor....

~Ken

Sunil · Post by **Sunil** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:31 pm

Yeah, you're right. He was the the best Doctor.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:53 pm

Sunil wrote:Yeah, you're right. He was the the best Doctor.

Until Christopher Eccleston and David Tennant!

Modern Buddy

I Don't Understand Vespanomics

I Don't Understand Vespanomics

ouch!

siniking dollar

Re: siniking dollar

Scooter Economics 101

Re: ouch!

Re: ouch!

Re: ouch!

Re: ouch!

Re: ouch!

Re: ouch!

Re: ouch!

Re: ouch!

Re: ouch!

Re: ouch!