How much faster with the 161 kit?

[mhardgrove]

Hey everyone! After much tinkering my 125 Buddy just isn't quick. It accelerates just fine, runs like a top, but I've lost top speed coming from sea level to Denver. I understand its a combo of being 230lbs and at altitude. I'm able to get to 40-42 on the speedo (haven't used a gps to track true speed). Its totally stock with 530 miles on it (I know it's not totally broken in yet).

Is a 161 kit worth it? Anyone at altitude have one? Does it increase power much? Does it cause an early engine death? I'm considering building a second motor (and saving my stock engine) and using the big bore kit, 150cc head, upgrade the transmission for max top speed, and throw on a prima pipe.

[Dooglas]

530 miles in 4 years? It's time to go out and ride that puppy . In all seriousness, I wouldn't start to put money into engine upgrades until I had put 12-1500 miles on it to be sure I knew what I was going to get. As the Buddy 125 easily pushes 60 around here, I am surprised that the high elevation would slow it down that much. Did it always top out at 40? What kind of performance differences do others see at high elevations with the carbed Buddys? Seems like rejetting could help with the elevation issue.

[PeteH]

Yep, before thinking 'kit' I'd think 'jets'.

Chat with the local dealers about jetting - they surely face the same issues on every carburated bike they sell. I'm not sure they downjet as part of dealer prep, but they could most likely provide some good guidance. At high altitudes, I'm sure that fuel/air mix is critical.

[Skootz Kabootz]

530 miles in 4 years? It's time to go out and ride that puppy

+1!


After a point the cc's won't make much of a difference to the Buddy top end, otherwise the 170i would be way faster than the 150cc. Going from 125 to 161 however is a significant difference and you will see some improvement. But the gearing of the Buddy keeps them all at roughly the same top end speed.

Where the extra cc's will make a difference is in maintaining speed up hills and in other situations where power is called for (like carrying a passenger for example). The bigger displacement will also mean the engine strains less at higher speeds. When I was riding with Jijifer (who has the 161 kit) we we're pretty much the same speed as each other all the time except when we came to an uphill stretch, at which time my 150 would start losing its speed while her 161 totally maintained.

In your case, as others have suggested, I would definitely break in the scooter completely before considering anything major like the 161 kit. After that, heck ya, do whatever suits you best.

Also as Dooglas and PeteH suggested, since you are in the mile high city, you might indeed benefit from a rejet to compensate for the altitude. I'm sure the folks at Sportique could give you good advice in that regard.

[Syd]

530 miles in 4 years? It's time to go out and ride that puppy

But the gearing of the Buddy keeps them all at roughly the same top end speed

This. A kit may get you to the top end quicker, but unless you can get higher up the variator or lower in the clutch pulleys, the only way to go faster is to spin the engine faster (and not run out the top of the variator pulley).

[mhardgrove]

Spoke with the guys at Sportique about the jetting when I moved here. Told me they rarely change them out. With that said I'm going to just keep riding and check the plug regularly to ensure I'm not too rich or lean.

In Lexington I was able to easily get it to 50, NEVER held it wot. I am still babying it, but the few times I had it almost wot here it didn't get to 45. I may just take it in for jetting. Seeing when I move in Aug I'm going to have nothing but back roads to work, I want to get all the kinks ironed out.

[pdxrita]

Did the guys at Sportique say that's a normal top end speed for a 125 at that altitude? That just seems awfully low to me. I've had my 125, which only has a couple hundred more miles than yours, up to at least 60bmph. Granted, I don't weigh anything, but still, no matter how big you are, you shouldn't lose 20mph off the top. If that truly is an effect of the altitude, there must be a way to get more oxygen to the engine to compensate.

[skully93]

Miah has a 125 (06 model), is only a tad lighter than you, and gets 60mph out of his at 8k miles, so I'm not sure what's up.

[k1dude]

I've ridden my Buddy up to 8,000 feet and it suffered no performance losses. But I was only riding at 50mph max (twisties), so I didn't try for my top end.

[mhardgrove]

The guys at Sportique recommended bringing it in for a tune up. I will most likely do so, maybe they can find something I am missing. I have done the following:

Checked valve clearance
Ensured brakes were not dragging
Adjusted the throttle to ensure I am able to achieve wot, adjusted idle also.
Changed out all fulids. Running Valvoline 10w40ATV oil in the motor and 85w140 in transmission (the same stuff I was running in Lexington). Made absolutely sure that I did not overfill them.
Changed plug with one I picked up from dealer when I bought the scooter that was identical to the one removed (gaped correctly) plug had 500 miles on it so I didn't "read" it but it looked ok.
removed carb and cleaned it out properly, removed jets and boiled them out with lime juice, replaced fuel filter.
I have run through a few tanks of gas recently, so its fresh gas.

With this said, I'm not really riding the scooter far. I am letting it warm up properly before setting off, and riding it short distances around my neighborhood leaving it running for 30 minutes at a time or so. I will be riding it regularly once I move in August. Now, I'm going to get a battery on pay day (the one in it is dead), it may be slightly down on power to the coil (it acts completely normal though). I'm going to try a fresh battery before I start it again, as I don't want to run the scooter off the strator/generator alone for long periods of time. I have run the scooter on 3 occasions like this, for an hour and a half or so total.

Again, runs fine, just won't go faster than 42. It doesn't bog down, or act funny in any way. If I'm missing anything let me know!

[BuddyRaton]

I gotta say boiling the jets in lime juice is a new one on me.

Take the carb completely apart. Use proper carb cleaner. I go so far as to use an ultrasonic with a dash of simple green, triple rinse then hit with carb cleaner again.

Reassemble to stock idle and throttle settings. Once you start messing with carb settings you are in the land of voodoo. Heck...I've opened portals to very bad places by messing with carbs!

[JettaKnight]

... I'm able to get to 40-42 on the speedo (haven't used a gps to track true speed). Its totally stock with 530 miles on it (I know it's not totally broken in yet).

Ugh, that's too slow!

Is a 161 kit worth it?

YES.

Anyone at altitude have one?

???

Does it increase power much?

YES

Does it cause an early engine death?

NO

I'm considering building a second motor (and saving my stock engine) and using the big bore kit, 150cc head, upgrade the transmission for max top speed, and throw on a prima pipe.

That's what I did - rebuilt an old engine on my bench and took my time to get it right. Pretty easy, but keep it clean.

Prima pipe and 161 cc sounds real sweet, nice and throaty!

[k1dude]

Once you start messing with carb settings you are in the land of voodoo. Heck...I've opened portals to very bad places by messing with carbs!

Ha Ha! Me too!

[mhardgrove]

I checked the rear brake, it was sticking a bit. Problem fixed and getting to 50 with ease now. Don't have enough area or need at the moment to push it faster.