Scooter novice - 2-stroke vs 4-stroke

[CKinVA]

I am looking into buying a 50-cc scooter (can't go higher due to moyercycle license and registration requirements). Just need to to max of 5 miles to and from store, gym, work, etc so a 50-cc will do me just fine.

I went to the Vespa dealer and he pretty much talked me into a genuine scooter for ease of driving, warrenty, price, etc. The one thing I didn't like is they don't do test drives as too many novices crashed scooters.

So I didn't get a feel for the Vespa, Piaggo, or Genuine. For my purpose, I just need a scooter to get myself around so as long as it drove relatively smooth (and I found enough positive reviews of the Genuine that I'm not terribly worried.

However the one thing I have no clue what is means is the 2-stroke vs 4-stroke. The mechanic at the store said 2-stroke is easier to maintain but will have some emmissions. Is that the only difference??

Thanks!

[JHScoot]

2 stroke is peppier so far as acceleration. it's noisier, burns oil for fuel. it requires no valve adjustments or oil changes.

it will be trashier then a 4 stroke and stinkier from the burning oil

here is a Genuine 2 stroker in action. my understanding is the genuine 50cc is a strong runner

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/R_ksDRkIgUo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[BuddyRaton]

Any 4T 50 cc is going to be snail slow. The 2T injects oil into the gasoline to lubricate the engine. Trashier and stinkier is a matter of opinion. They are a much simpler than a 4T motor. No valve adjustment because there are no valves. No oil changes but the gear oil will need to be changed. Yes you will be putting out a little blue smoke from burning the lubricating oil but the Buddy 2T is a pretty efficient little motor.

[TVB]

I am looking into buying a 50-cc scooter (can't go higher due to moyercycle license and registration requirements). Just need to to max of 5 miles to and from store, gym, work, etc so a 50-cc will do me just fine.

I went to the Vespa dealer and he pretty much talked me into a genuine scooter for ease of driving, warrenty, price, etc. The one thing I didn't like is they don't do test drives as too many novices crashed scooters.

So I didn't get a feel for the Vespa, Piaggo, or Genuine. For my purpose, I just need a scooter to get myself around so as long as it drove relatively smooth (and I found enough positive reviews of the Genuine that I'm not terribly worried.

I don't think you'll be disappointed. I have a Buddy 50 with 15K miles on it, mostly doing the kind of commuting you're talking about (and the occasional road trip), and I love it.

However the one thing I have no clue what is means is the 2-stroke vs 4-stroke. The mechanic at the store said 2-stroke is easier to maintain but will have some emmissions. Is that the only difference??

The first difference (from the rider's perspective) is that a 2-stroke burns oil along with gasoline, so you have to feed it a quart of oil every 1K miles (roughly), rather than changing the oil every however-many miles. It also means it puts burnt oil into the air... not a lot, but more than a 4-stroke. It also puts more noise into the air.

The second difference is that for any given engine size, a 2-stroke is going to be "peppier": faster getting started, and able to get up to top speed more quickly. You can get most 4-stroke 50ccs up to the same speeds (if the speed restrictions have been removed), but it takes longer.

Speaking of derestriction: there are two simple modifications made to the Buddy for import to the US, which limit its speed to 30mph, making it eligible for "moped" registration in most states. Most dealers will undo these modifications if you ask them to, giving the bike about another 10mph. It's incredibly common (I did it); just be aware that it's unlawful.

[RoadRambler]

If you're looking at Genuine 50's, don't forget the Roughhouse AWA the Buddy 50! You may find one or the other is more comfortable, as they do sit the rider somewhat differently.

[spr0k3t]

There is a big power difference from 2T to 4T. Since the power stroke on a 2T is every time the piston is all the way compressed vs the 4T where it's every other revolution, the 2T will have more torque. More torque will give faster acceleration.

[skully93]

Add another to the 2t mindset. The bigger scoots I have are all 4t, and they do just fine. But my Zuma 50cc was a 2t, and it smoked it's brand new 4t brethren. The difference on 50cc scoots is quite apparent.

Also, if licensing is an issue, don't let it stop you. the motorcycle classes are a STRONG suggestion for any rider, especially the 'oh it's only 50cc so I don't need it' crowd I run into here a lot. It's a weekend and will greatly increase your skills. Even if you stick with a 50, which seems like it would be very well suited for your route, I would suggest you take the MSF class ASAP.

Plus, then you always have the option of getting on something else for a bigger ride. a 50 works fine for my commute, but not for all the goofing off I do .

[illnoise]

A 2 stroke engine IN THEORY is more powerful than a 4 stroke engine, but (again, IN THEORY) creates more pollution (it burns oil with the gas). It is (GENERALLY) easier/cheaper to maintain/service a 2-stroke, but a 4-stroke is (GENERALLY) more reliable and requires less maintenance.

A 2-stroke DOES need oil 'changes,' in fact you must keep an oil reservoir filled with oil, just as your gas tank is full of gas (modern scooters will mix them automatically, older ones must have the oil measured and mixed into the gas). A 4-stroke re-uses the engine oil, but it must be changed occasionally. BOTH have separate gearbox oil that must also be changed regularly.

That, and most of what others have said here, is mostly theory and generalizations. With technology advances, engineering, engine quality, and purposeful restrictions of power are involved, most of it is moot and each scooter should be compared on its merits, not generalizations.

Many 50cc scooters are restricted, making theoretical top power/speed irrelevant unless you 'derestrict' them. Some 50cc scooters (the Aprilia SR50 comes to mind) are just ridiculously well-engineered and can run circles around others (the restricted Yamaha Vino or Honda Metropolitan.)

So take everything you heard here with a grain of salt. If you're comparing the 2T Buddy 50 to the 4T Vespa LX50, I've never ridden either enough to compare, but that specific question will get you more useful, relevant answers.

[skully93]

Aprilia does make really good stuff!

the price tag is a bit more, like a Vespa, but I think you'd have to fire it out of a cannon to hurt the engine.

[Dooglas]

If you're comparing the 2T Buddy 50 to the 4T Vespa LX50, I've never ridden either enough to compare, but that specific question will get you more useful, relevant answers.

I have ridden both and I would say that the Buddy 50 is easily quicker than the LX 50 - but a Buddy 125 costs less than the Vespa and will run away from either one of the 50s.

I am looking into buying a 50-cc scooter (can't go higher due to motorcycle license and registration requirements).

Now why is this a "can't"? The license and registration requirements for a 125/150 scooter aren't particuarly onerous or expensive. Are you trying to avoid rider training (you really want to do this) or insurance (a bad idea)?

[Mutt the Hoople]

Interesting. I have a Buddy 50cc (two stroke) and a Vespa GTV 250 (four stroke). True. You just need a regular drivers license for the 50cc but my insurence for the Vespa is almost $25 a month cheaper. Getting your M permit is not difficult... And the motorcycle riding safety course is a good idea regardless. I live in the city. For that, the 50cc is great and has plenty of get up and go for streets 35mph and less. Hills can be an issue however. But if I wanted to stay strictly in the city, I would need no more than the 50cc. Buuuuuuut.... You may just find that you really like zipping around on two wheels and want to explore further, or go out on some country highways... In that case you may want to consider a 125cc or maybe more. Between the Buddy and the Vespa... Two different animals and I love them both. The buddy is like a Healy Sprite... Fun, sporty, quick, a little cheeky. Great fun... Totally puts a smile on my face. Plus I can park it like a bicycle. The GTV is like a Mercedes... Heavier, smoother, and more refined. A tad more polite. But both are great and neither are wrong. Just depends on what you want.

[TVB]

I live in the city. For that, the 50cc is great and has plenty of get up and go for streets 35mph and less. Hills can be an issue however. But if I wanted to stay strictly in the city, I would need no more than the 50cc. Buuuuuuut.... You may just find that you really like zipping around on two wheels and want to explore further, or go out on some country highways... In that case you may want to consider a 125cc or maybe more.

I do need to mention that a 50cc can be good outside the city as well. Traveling cross-country at 30-40mph does pose some challenges (mostly figuring out which roads to take/avoid) but also has substantial rewards. For example, on my last out-of-town ride, I sought out a road to get me off the state highways, and found myself making my way between Amish and Mennonite farms. As Robert Frost once summed it up:

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

[Mutt the Hoople]

I live in the city. For that, the 50cc is great and has plenty of get up and go for streets 35mph and less. Hills can be an issue however. But if I wanted to stay strictly in the city, I would need no more than the 50cc. Buuuuuuut.... You may just find that you really like zipping around on two wheels and want to explore further, or go out on some country highways... In that case you may want to consider a 125cc or maybe more.

I do need to mention that a 50cc can be good outside the city as well. Traveling cross-country at 30-40mph does pose some challenges (mostly figuring out which roads to take/avoid) but also has substantial rewards. For example, on my last out-of-town ride, I sought out a road to get me off the state highways, and found myself making my way between Amish and Mennonite farms. As Robert Frost once summed it up:

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

Beautiful point. That is very true. Sadly... For me to get to the Illinois side to ride on the Great River Road 40 is too slow. But, what you are saying is quite true. I wonder if part of my angst is Missouri drivers. They are rated pretty poorly and that seems to be accurate. I ride on one particular 30mph road... My Buddy should be just fine and they FLY around me. Like at 50mph... Crossing the center lane. It's a free for all.