symptoms of a seized CLUTCH???

[BootScootin'FireFighter]

It's been very touch and go lately. It starts up, seems to run fine. Sometimes when it's shut down it doesn't want to roll as normal on the rear wheel. The belt is new, last week I took the clutch assembly apart and cleaned it thoroughly with an air compressor an automotive brake cleaner degreaser stuff. I don't remember the brand name, it was at a friends house. When idling at a red light, sometimes it idles low and is making a jerking motion forward. I can't seem to find anything wrong with the variator or rollers, so I'm narrowing it down to the clutch.

Any ideas what parts I need to replace first? Or do I just replace the entire clutch with THIS??

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[pdxrita]

Any chance it's the bearings, rather than the clutch?

[k1dude]

Any chance it's the bearings, rather than the clutch?

I don't think bearings would cause the scooter to jump forward while idling and you'd most likely hear or feel the bearings.

How many miles do you have on the Buddy? I'm curious when high mileage Buddy owners have had to swap out their clutches.

Maybe some of the brake cleaner stuff got onto your clutch pads and it's causing the pads to grab.

[spr0k3t]

Clutch fade? Is it always grabby or do you get a little slippage from time to time?

[PIStaker]

OK. Let me see if I can describe this properly.

When you take the clutch bell off, you will expose the clutch itself.
It's going be all held together by a giant oversized nut.
The nut is what keeps all the compression on the clutch spring.
First thing to look for is to see if that giant nut has backed off.
When you take the clutch itself off, compress the whole unit together and see if there is any room for the giant nut to be tightened.
You may need to tighten it up.

Mine backed off, and I finally had to put some locktite on it.
When it backed off, the wheel would turn forward when given throttle, but not at all when trying to move the wheel in reverse by hand.

I hope that all makes sense.

Let me know how you make out.

[BuddyRaton]

Is this your CBR scooter?

[BootScootin'FireFighter]

Any chance it's the bearings, rather than the clutch?

I don't think bearings would cause the scooter to jump forward while idling and you'd most likely hear or feel the bearings.

How many miles do you have on the Buddy?....

Maybe some of the brake cleaner stuff got onto your clutch pads and it's causing the pads to grab.

I never checked the bearings, haven't looked up how to yet, probably wouldn't hurt to either way.

Mileage = 23,500. I can't remember if the clutch was ever replaced when I was getting it serviced. Probably wouldn't hurt to just get a new one anyway. $49 on scooterworks.

Clutch fade? Is it always grabby or do you get a little slippage from time to time?

It's sporadic, this morning it was grabby, day before yesterday was not so much.

Is this your CBR scooter?

Yea, same one. Same clutch. New belt.

OK. Let me see if I can describe this properly.

When you take the clutch bell off, you will expose the clutch itself.
It's going be all held together by a giant oversized nut.
The nut is what keeps all the compression on the clutch spring.
First thing to look for is to see if that giant nut has backed off.
When you take the clutch itself off, compress the whole unit together and see if there is any room for the giant nut to be tightened.
You may need to tighten it up.

Mine backed off, and I finally had to put some locktite on it.
When it backed off, the wheel would turn forward when given throttle, but not at all when trying to move the wheel in reverse by hand.

I hope that all makes sense.

Let me know how you make out.

I'll look into that. It doesn't even roll forward without resistance when it's off. I used to easily roll it, but even now I need to put a lot of ooomph in my fred flintstone roll. Are you referring to the large nut that uses a vice to remove? The one outside the clutch bell we used an impact wrench for. And loctite red for these threads.

[Lostmycage]

Monamibuddy's got your answer. This can happen time to time on a CVT. It's caused me to start adding lock tight (blue) to the retainer nut in addition to making absolutely certain that the clutch is completely together when re-tightening that nut.

Check the inside of the bell and sand off any areas that have been gouged out.

[tortoise]

Mileage = 23,500

Possibly one of the clutch arms is not retracting properly or the bell is significantly distorted out-of-round, but with that many miles probably prudent to replace with a stock unit. Related article . . "Belts breaking all the time!"

Reference video.

[velobuff]

Have you tried putting your old belt back in (unless it's fubar)? Perhaps the problem is the new belt being out of spec, assuming you did everything else correctly...

[k1dude]

I'm with tortoise. With 23,500 miles, it's time to replace the clutch and bell. They're cheap enough you might as well just do it. And as others have said, add some blue loctite for insurance.

[easy]

thats the way mine did when the flat nut backed off becareful when you take the cvt cover off the contra spring is going to fly. I belive buggyparts nw has the whole clutch package for around $70

[PIStaker]

.

OK. Let me see if I can describe this properly.

When you take the clutch bell off, you will expose the clutch itself.
It's going be all held together by a giant oversized nut.
The nut is what keeps all the compression on the clutch spring.
First thing to look for is to see if that giant nut has backed off.
When you take the clutch itself off, compress the whole unit together and see if there is any room for the giant nut to be tightened.
You may need to tighten it up.

Mine backed off, and I finally had to put some locktite on it.
When it backed off, the wheel would turn forward when given throttle, but not at all when trying to move the wheel in reverse by hand.

I hope that all makes sense.

Let me know how you make out.

I'll look into that. It doesn't even roll forward without resistance when it's off. I used to easily roll it, but even now I need to put a lot of ooomph in my fred flintstone roll. Are you referring to the large nut that uses a vice to remove? The one outside the clutch bell we used an impact wrench for. And loctite red for these threads.[/quote]

BSFF, Are you saying that you're having trouble moving back and forth even when the clutch is out completely?
That would describe a different problem than I had. And yes BTW, I was referring to the big a$$ nut that you need vice, or Channel locks to remove.

[BootScootin'FireFighter]

I took the cover off the Variator, then tried to turn the rear wheel in both forward and reverse by hand while on the center stand. Again, major elbow grease involved, and when the wheel finally budged, it rotated the clutch bell, belt, and Variator. It was also more forcefully jerking forward at idle on the ride home, even lurching forward and stalling out at a red light. The heat coming from the cvt after only 7 miles seemed hotter then the blazes of hell and damnation.

Its pretty safe to assume its time to order a new clutch and bell. Lucky for me, I can commandeer my wife's Buddy for the next few days!

Thanks for your input, I initially thought it was just a spring issue.

[PIStaker]

I took the cover off the Variator, then tried to turn the rear wheel in both forward and reverse by hand while on the center stand. Again, major elbow grease involved, and when the wheel finally budged, it rotated the clutch bell, belt, and Variator. It was also more forcefully jerking forward at idle on the ride home, even lurching forward and stalling out at a red light. The heat coming from the cvt after only 7 miles seemed hotter then the blazes of hell and damnation.

Its pretty safe to assume its time to order a new clutch and bell. Lucky for me, I can commandeer my wife's Buddy for the next few days!

Thanks for your input, I initially thought it was just a spring issue.

I'm still sticking with my original assessment. Take clutch bell off and see if there is any wear on the inside of the bell. If so, then you'll know where it's touching.
I'd bet a beer that the big nut has backed off somehow.
...a beer is cheaper than a new clutch. Just sayin.

[BuddyRaton]

Its pretty safe to assume its time to order a new clutch and bell. Lucky for me, I can commandeer my wife's Buddy for the next few days!

Yeah that's the way I would go. You have a bunch of miles and the CBR is tough on any scooter. You had that clutch spinning at high speed all day for quite a few days!

[Tocsik]

Hey BSF - any updates on this?
Hope you got it figured out.

[BootScootin'FireFighter]

Hey BSF - any updates on this?
Hope you got it figured out.

the Mothership is sidelined while the new clutch is enroute. The bell was on backorder, but at least I'll have the clutch in sometime this week before the TURNBULL's camping rally this weekend! I also threw in a stebel nautilus horn with the order, an upgrade I'm long overdue for.

[Skootz Kabootz]

Hey BSF - any updates on this?
Hope you got it figured out.

the Mothership is sidelined while the new clutch is enroute. The bell was on backorder, but at least I'll have the clutch in sometime this week before the TURNBULL's camping rally this weekend! I also threw in a stebel nautilus horn with the order, an upgrade I'm long overdue for.

Man, you are going to LOVE that horn! It's the closest a scooter can come to sounding like a firetruck!

[k1dude]

Where did you buy the horn and how much?

[BootScootin'FireFighter]

Where did you buy the horn and how much?

$65, scooterworks.com

[JettaKnight]

So with the clutch bell off (and clutch & belt in place) does the rear wheel turn free? The the bell seem hard to remove as it the clutch was sticking? Do any of the clutch shoes stick out or look out of place?

[k1dude]

Where did you buy the horn and how much?

$65, scooterworks.com

I can't find it. All they have is a Mini Turbine AHorn for $32.

[spr0k3t]

That's where I was able to get mine from about a month back. The sad thing, they had a very limited supply, and I do believe they are now gone. I think they were only able to get 50 of them. Now it's time to start looking for something of a worthy replacement. One option for the Nautilus Twin Air, the chrome version is still available... Don't know for how long though.

http://www.amazon.com/Stebel-Nautilus-C ... 003SEBYF0/

[PeteH]

There's always the Wolo Bad Boy (Compact Nautilus clone) as an alternative. $34.95 and in-stock at Amazon.

Since it's a physical match for the Compact Nautilus, you should be able to mount it up pretty easily in a Buddy.

There are a variety of specs floating around out there - some say the Nautilus is 139dB, but that's measured right at the horn, whereas the Wolo is something like 119dB at 1 meter. Specs also vary by website. Y'all do the math.

[BootScootin'FireFighter]

The verdict is in!!

I'd bet a beer that the big nut has backed off somehow....a beer is cheaper than a new clutch. Just sayin.

Well played Monami... I owe you a round if I ever end up in San Antonio, or meet up at a rally inbetween.

I went ahead and ordered a new clutch anyway, but when it came time to take off the bolt and remove the bell, well the main nut holding the spring down came off with such ease, almost went airborne as well. I don't know how it had backed off like that. We overloaded it with loctite red and treated "the mothership" to a new clutch. I saw WE, I'm referring to my buddy Kevin, who has all the right tools. I was unable to get the bolt off for the clutchbell this morning on my own, so I used his impact wrench and spring puller.

Ironic, but I ordered the NCY 1200-1035 clutch and 1500 rpm springs (the yellows), but the springs felt so loose, I didn't feel comfortable leaving them on, so I went back to the stock NCY clutch springs. The bearings were nice and clean, all greased up. The old clutch shoes really show its wear, so it's for the better that I replaced it. Nearly 25,000 miles can do that to 'em.

It's rally weekend, so I got everything back up to nearly 100%, including a new stebel Nautilus horn. I love it! I'll keep an eye out on that clutch spring nut and see if it starts to move outward again. Hopefully that's the end of it and I don't need to replace more components. The clutch bell looked good too, so we'll see...

Thanks for all your input!