SUGGESTION: ModernBuddy.com - Forums should be reorganized

chloefpuff · Post by **chloefpuff** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:39 pm

2wheelNsanity wrote:Hmm. I'll play the simpleton. I like the forum the way it is, I really don't want to go fishing through countless links just to find something, plus I don't like unwarranted change. If there was anything I would change it would be the search engine, I have had problems in the past finding threads (but that just might be me ).

It's not you, it's me. No wait, it's the search engine.

scootavaran · Post by **scootavaran** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:21 pm

I get what your sayin..
I just think the active community might be to small to spread out.

Besides there's alot of people on here that don't even ride a Geniune scooter.

nickcornaglia · Post by **nickcornaglia** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:34 pm

I don't mindf people disagree. Just seemed like many were disagreeing to a misunderstood statement.

jmazza · Post by **jmazza** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:52 pm

nickcornaglia wrote:I don't mindf people disagree. Just seemed like many were disagreeing to a misunderstood statement.

Yeah that is why I suggest PM'ing Eric (ericalm) with your suggestion if you haven't already. Especially since he hasn't checked in this thread yet. He's got the sole decision making power to enact any organization changes!

Thanks!

Hwarang · Post by **Hwarang** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:59 pm

nickcornaglia wrote:I have not been a member for too long but belong to other forums (scooter and non-scooter related).

I was wondering why the forums are categorized the way they are.
In my opinion, I think GENERAL DISCUSSION should only be for General Discussion...and Buddy 50, 125, 150cc should have their own category along with the other scooter specific categories.

There are discussions going on in the other categories that should be in the General Discussion category that I'm missing out on because I don't want to sort thru Stella Specific info...as an example.

While I'm on the subject, there should be a Website suggestions/issues category as well

This makes logical sense, but is actually the exact wrong way to go. For example, you're advocating a suggestions forum, but there isn't any traffic to suggest that a suggestion forum would be filled with suggestions.

The number one rule of community organization is "start simple; create subcategories when content or traffic demands it"

nickcornaglia · Post by **nickcornaglia** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:52 pm

I sort of disagree with that. I believe you should plan ahead as efficiently as possible so you're not cleaning up and moving posts later on down the line as the site grows. The longer you wait...the more posts you'll need to organize. But the current organization isnt going to kill anyone if the readership stays around its current numbers.

Hwarang · Post by **Hwarang** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:06 pm

nickcornaglia wrote:I sort of disagree with that. I believe you should plan ahead as efficiently as possible so you're not cleaning up and moving posts later on down the line as the site grows. The longer you wait...the more posts you'll need to organize. But the current organization isnt going to kill anyone if the readership stays around its current numbers.

Again, you're coming from the angle of sound logical theory, but that's just not how communities grow and develop in reality. Essentially, you're at the start of the same thought (discovery) process that myself and other interweb geeks have gone down decades past. You're thinking that way because it IS sound logic.

It's just not how communities actually grow and develop in reality. I don't wanna swing the dong around but I've been making digital properties for a while now, and have started successful (and not successful) online communities based around games, hobbies and whatever.

So, while it seems normal to be like, 'Yeah let's have forums A, B, C and D. Cuz that's what people what to talk about, right?"

It just never works. Ever (ever, ever, ever). Invariably, they sit stagnant and unused. And then the site dies. Literally, 100% of the time. I have seen this phenomenon demonstrated about 20 times.

A busy, energetic forum is an attractor. Even if it's a little messy.

A well-organized but barren forum is a repulsor.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:30 pm

When you see the words "General Discussion…", mentally add the phrase "…of the various Buddy models" after it. Problem solved. General Discussion IS the Buddy thread. Most users come here to talk/read about the Buddy, so even if we split off "Buddy" into it's own section, all the chatter and off-topic stuff would move there anyway. People post photos, events, for sale stuff, etc there as it is, anyway.

Nick, I agree some people were a but curt to you to begin with and maybe that was unfair. Your idea is somewhat valid, but I just don't think it's worth changing it. It's come up before and I don't want to speak for Eric, but it's his decision. Your opinion is welcome, but it's simply not a democracy.

Last time someone started demanding 'there really need to be some big changes 'round here" out of the blue, it ended with the hilarious and creatively-named http://modernbuddy2.com (you can click that link to see how that utopia panned out.) I think it had something like twelve sections, which worked out to about three per user. It turns out running a forum requires a lot more than an opinion on background colors and forum subdivisions.

I know that's smug, but I've run a scooter website for years and frequently burnt myself out and lost lots of sleep trying to make everyone happy, I've found that doing it the way I like is the only way to keep it going, and gives it personality that makes it what it is. The same can be said of this site, which Eric puts loads of work into, and 'trying to please everyone' pretty much killed the Scooter BBS and Scoot.net, two great (if cliquish) assets to the scootering world.

Just like clubs or rallies or scooters themselves, there's something out there for everyone, and not everything scooter related is going to fit the needs of all riders. I think it's great there are a variety of sites with different attitudes and different niches. While this site has its niche (Genuine scooters, specifically the Buddy), it's not an "official site" of Genuine and thus has no obligation to be anything more or less than Eric wants it to be, which is great. I think most users find it very welcoming and drama-free (thanks to simple but clear rules and polite authoritarian enforcement of those rules), and it's probably more accommodating of new riders than any other list out there. It's only vaguely snobby, ha, it's got a great variety of users, the a good amount of traffic (not overwhelming, not dead). Sure, it's not perfect for everyone, but it's pretty great.

So again, feel free to offer suggestions, but like some other users, I read the original post as being somewhat demanding, bossy and naive. If that was not your intention, I'm sorry, but you'd get the same reaction if you moved to a new town, lived there a few weeks, then marched to city hall demanding your garbage was picked up on a different day, the one-way streets should all reverse directions, and the tap water shouldn't be fluorinated. As you can see, some people even agree with you, and that's fine, maybe it's worth thinking about, but there was *nothing* delicate about that first post, ha.

kitty · Post by **kitty** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:18 pm

2wheelNsanity wrote:I really don't want to go fishing through countless links just to find something

That's kind ofthe current problem though. Okay, maybe "problem" is too strong of a word, I don't mean that there's necessarily anything wrong, but as someone who has been involved with (and moderated) many car forums, it just seems like a weird setup.

The Buddy threads are all shuffled in with threads about coffee and makeup and the weather and whatever. By no means do I think there shouldn't be NSR and community type threads, those are great, but for someone who needs to quickly find information to solve a problem or answer a question about their Buddy, it makes it tougher.

Then on the other hand, there's the people who don't have a Buddy, like me, but I enjoy the NSR threads. Initially I was intimidated to post in NSR because I thought maybe it wasn't "my place" and I stayed in the Stella forum.

I only look at it as a way to make Buddy information easier to find, and NSR threads more welcoming to everyone. Overall, I think it would be way more advantage than disadvantage to split it up.

nickcornaglia · Post by **nickcornaglia** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:22 pm

I'm not trying to continue to argue the merits of my point. Obviously many are settled in the current structure or don't like change or simply believe what exists is the best for the site. I don't believe others need to agree with me at all. But I am getting tired of correcting people who read the first post as me requesting the General Discussion forum be divided into 10 categories. In the end it's all good and I'm enjoying (most of) the replies both logical and illogical.

And I certainly enjoy the info throughout the site.

And for the record, I'm not totally inexperienced either as I have assisted in moderating a forum with over 800,000 members and 1.6 million posts which included many long nights of banning/warning members and deleting/moving posts....since 2004. That certainly doesn't make me an expert but I hope it somewhat validates why I believe what I believe.

Lastly, regarding the tone of the first post:
I wonder if it would have read better if the topic were, "SUGGESTION: Should the forums be reorganized?" or "Could the forums be reorganized?" or if I didn't omit an offer to help move threads if others thought it was a good idea. I think we can all agree that that last part isn't going to happen.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:32 pm

^^ Yes, I think it would have read better. The eternal problem of internet inflection. There isn't any.

amy · Post by **amy** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:20 am

It's all being over thought/long winded already. This thread is a perfect illustration of why less is more.

Let us keep our clean and simple forum as is.

Nick, although your post title have come off as abrasive (I thought it was) and your initial message may have been misunderstood, in each of your subsequent posts you absolutely come off as arrogant. You're the first person on here that made me think "whaaaat theeee efffff?! Who is THIS guy?!" and found myself getting more and more repulsed.

Take the feedback. Work with it.

When I was new here I wasn't confused. Perhaps the thousands of other forums you've administrated/been a member of are too complicated? *shrug*
Pardon my tone, I blame the time of day. It's late.

The beauty of this site is in its simplicity, nerdiness, fun factor, and respectful "tone of voice" the MB users use.

This is my favorite forum EVER exactly the way it is.

It's easy enough to read through posts over breakfast or during a Final Cut Pro export. There aren't THAT many new posts going up each day.

Never in the lengthy history of my internet use have I found a forum so delightfully fun to participate in.

Eric, please don't start rearranging our nice little system because new persons aren't used to it yet.

Skootz:

Pardon any typos. I'm dictating this on my phone. Sent by Siri.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:27 am

amy wrote:It's all being over thought/long winded already. This thread is a perfect illustration of why less is more.

Let us keep our clean and simple forum as is.

Nick, although your post title have come off as abrasive (I thought it was) and your initial message may have been misunderstood, in each of your subsequent posts you absolutely come off as arrogant. You're the first person on here that made me think "whaaaat theeee efffff?! Who is THIS guy?!" and found myself getting more and more repulsed.

Take the feedback. Work with it.

When I was new here I wasn't confused. Perhaps the thousands of other forums you've administrated/been a member of are too complicated? *shrug*
Pardon my tone, I blame the time of day. It's late.

The beauty of this site is in its simplicity, nerdiness, fun factor, and respectful "tone of voice" the MB users use.

This is my favorite forum EVER exactly the way it is.

It's easy enough to read through posts over breakfast or during a Final Cut Pro export. There aren't THAT many new posts going up each day.

Never in the lengthy history of my internet use have I found a forum so delightfully fun to participate in.

Eric, please don't start rearranging our nice little system because new persons aren't used to it yet.

Skootz:

Pardon any typos. I'm dictating this on my phone. Sent by Siri.

I think the emphasis should be placed on "Nerdy". I mean... c'mon! We're sitting at home on the internet talking about our SCOOTERS! Throw a Devo Power Dome on your head and embrace what you are

Otherwise, I'm cool with it as is, even as a P-series/Stella guy.

amy · Post by **amy** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:28 am

+1 Neo
lool

lovemysan · Post by **lovemysan** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:43 am

I find the current general discussion/buddy 50-125-170 section a little confusing also. I've used the general discussion forum for research regarding tuning information for both the 50 and the 125. Its difficult to find pertinent information due to the information being mixed in. Difficult enough that I joined a zuma forum.

I didn't find nicks suggestion or title to be offensive. The phrasing was direct and clear. He made a suggestion, big deal. People make suggestions all the time often unwarranted and without thought of consequence(try naming a baby sometime). We all learn to deal with it , give our opinions and move on. Personally I have reading comprehension issues that make it difficult at times to sift through the NSR, NBR, etc.

Mutt the Hoople · Post by **Mutt the Hoople** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:45 am

Boogy Boy?

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:08 am

Whew, get busy for a few days and look what happens. Folks, there's a lot of attitude being slung around. Let's nip that in the bud now, please. Yes, even if someone else started it or was slinging first.

No, we'll not be reorganizing the forum.

The reasons are simple, but it comes down to this: The more it's split up, the less people participate. This has proven to be the case on other forums.

ModernBuddy is a community, not just a "come and find specific information or ask a question and get an answer" forum (though it fulfills that purpose, too). Having a broad "General Discussions" forum not only helps with community building but also helps members become more informed than if all the info were divided into more specific sections.

MB is modeled after ModernVespa, as it started as an offshoot of that forum, however we're different in a number of ways and now wholly separate. Still, look at MV: 27,630 registered users and a General Discussions forum that covers every modern model of Vespa, Aprilia and Piaggio with the exception of the MP3. Many of the regular posters in the MP3 section don't interact in the other areas of the site at all. ModernVespa admin jess has said starting a separate MP3 forum was probably a mistake.

I actually regret having separate sections for the Black Cat/Rattler/Roughhouse and Blur. Stella, well… that makes a bit more sense but still may not be necessary as a standalone.

So though it's been suggested before, no, we will not be reorganizing the forum. Nothing will work for everyone. This works for the overwhelming majority.

(I should probably just save this post for when this gets suggested again in two years.)

Christophers · Post by **Christophers** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:33 am

ericalm wrote:Whew, get busy for a few days and look what happens. Folks, there's a lot of attitude being slung around. Let's nip that in the bud now, please. Yes, even if someone else started it or was slinging first.

No, we'll not be reorganizing the forum.

The reasons are simple, but it comes down to this: The more it's split up, the less people participate. This has proven to be the case on other forums.

ModernBuddy is a community, not just a "come and find specific information or ask a question and get an answer" forum (though it fulfills that purpose, too). Having a broad "General Discussions" forum not only helps with community building but also helps members become more informed than if all the info were divided into more specific sections.

MB is modeled after ModernVespa, as it started as an offshoot of that forum, however we're different in a number of ways and now wholly separate. Still, look at MV: 27,630 registered users and a General Discussions forum that covers every modern model of Vespa, Aprilia and Piaggio with the exception of the MP3. Many of the regular posters in the MP3 section don't interact in the other areas of the site at all. ModernVespa admin jess has said starting a separate MP3 forum was probably a mistake.

I actually regret having separate sections for the Black Cat/Rattler/Roughhouse and Blur. Stella, well… that makes a bit more sense but still may not be necessary as a standalone.

So though it's been suggested before, no, we will not be reorganizing the forum. Nothing will work for everyone. This works for the overwhelming majority.

(I should probably just save this post for when this gets suggested again in two years.)

[Thank you]

nickcornaglia · Post by **nickcornaglia** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:14 pm

I'm going to stop reading this thread before someone else calls me an arrogant asshole again. It's a bit over the top and unwarranted in my opinion. Thanks to those who read my post(s) with its true intent of a non-aggressive non-demanding tone. I get it, you don't agree with me. The two categories I suggested stay as one. Who really cares that much in the end. Not a problem where I'm coming from. But to get all bent out of shape? Some of you are making comments attacking me and not the content of the post and that's a bit crazy.

Modern Buddy

SUGGESTION: ModernBuddy.com - Forums should be reorganized

Re: SUGGESTION: ModernBuddy.com - Forums should be reorganiz