Kick Starter use?

[Ed Hit]

Another noob question. I thank all of you for your patience thus far...

The person I bought my Buddy from mentioned that it was not a good idea to use the kick starter unless I had too… I largely am fine with this but for winter storage, my Buddy is on the porch. Since it is right here, I intend (on the weeks when it may not run for a week or so) to just start her on the center stand and let her warm up for 20 mins or so. The rest of the time, I plan on keeping the battery inside on a battery tender.

Here in Chi town it can get pretty darn cold and I like to just make sure it runs once in a while.

So first of all do I need to worry about that in the first place.

Secondly, is it OK to use the kick starter for this purpose, or should I reconnect the battery each time?

Thanks much, Ed

[Drifter]

1. You should be able to leave your battery in your scoot and put the charger on it. A fully charge battery can handle cold weather better then hot weather.
2. My dealer told me it is good to kick it over a couple of time as it pushes fuel through the vaccuum pump which in turns starts the engine faster and with less battery/starter use. You should be able to use the kick started any time you want...that's what it was put on for.

I store my scoots in a garage with battery in and a battery tender jr hooked to them. I run them at least monthly during the winter, I do this with my RV and the generator too. Never had a fuel problem in years by doing this. Just let it run for about 1/2 hours or more.

[bwilms]

The winter routine I use was recommended to me by POCPhil.

During those cold, wintry months, where the scooter remains idle, I am sure to go out to it every two weeks, kick-start it and hold the throttle at about a 1/4 (~10-20 MPH) for 10 to 15 minutes.

Kick-starting it saves any juice that may be left in the battery. Giving it some throttle gets the fluids moving and re-coats all of the metal bits. It also recharges the battery a bit (I went all last winter this way with no need for a tender). As I understand it, turning it on and letting it idle doesn't do much more than waste gas.

To answer your more general question, I think the preferred method of start is electric, but a kick-start shouldn't hurt. It's saved me a couple of times.

[Ed Hit]

Thanks much. I do not have an electric outlet outside I can use, hence taking the battery in.

Interesting about advocating use of the kick start. I will try using that every so often... I thought it was maybe a bit strange to just not use it. Electric is obviously easier, just not when I have to get it out of the basement.

Heres to minimal snow, so maybe this is all just irrelevant!

Thanks again, Ed

[ericalm]

Thanks much. I do not have an electric outlet outside I can use, hence taking the battery in.

Interesting about advocating use of the kick start. I will try using that every so often... I thought it was maybe a bit strange to just not use it. Electric is obviously easier, just not when I have to get it out of the basement.

Heres to minimal snow, so maybe this is all just irrelevant!

Most modern, automatic transmission scoots aren't really made to be kick started, but that doesn't mean you can't do it. A lot of people are wary because on certain Vespa automatic models, kick starting (or, rather, numerous violent attempts at kick starting) can actually cause damage to the scoot. But from all we've seen and heard, you're safe kick starting the Buddy. It's even a good thing to do every once in a while so you know how to just in case.

That said, if the battery is totally drained and dead, it may not start even with the kick starter.

I have a garage but on occasion have just run my battery tender cable out the door when the scoot was parked under the covered patio. I understand how this could be a pain on the front porch, though. Also, I hope you're keeping it covered and locked up tight. The Buddy is pretty attractive to thieves.

[scoot50]

Secondly, is it OK to use the kick starter for this purpose, or should I reconnect the battery each time?

Thanks much, Ed

I don't think that you can kick start a scooter/motorcycle unless the battery is installed (unless the electrical system has been modified). If it did start you would risk damage to the electrical system because the voltage would not be regulated.

[Ed Hit]

Quote: I don't think that you can kick start a scooter/motorcycle unless the battery is installed (unless the electrical system has been modified). If it did start you would risk damage to the electrical system because the voltage would not be regulated.

Well, I did try it and it did start and seemed to run just fine last night, without the battery. Then today, My wife and I both rode with the battery in, and all seemed well...[/quote]

[BuddyRaton]

Quote: I don't think that you can kick start a scooter/motorcycle unless the battery is installed (unless the electrical system has been modified). If it did start you would risk damage to the electrical system because the voltage would not be regulated.

Well, I did try it and it did start and seemed to run just fine last night, without the battery. Then today, My wife and I both rode with the battery in, and all seemed well...

[/quote]

If your going to do it anyway why did you ask?

[Leeroy Jenkins]

"The voltage would not be regulated."

The battery does no regulate voltage, the voltage regulator does that job.

Hence the name.

[Ed Hit]

Well, I did try it and it did start and seemed to run just fine last night, without the battery. Then today, My wife and I both rode with the battery in, and all seemed well...[/quote][/quote]

If your going to do it anyway why did you ask? [/quote]

My original question had to do with doing it on a regular basis, would I be doing any damage if I make a habit of it...

[pcbikedude]

My original question had to do with doing it on a regular basis, would I be doing any damage if I make a habit of it...

I think people were asking back, you have electric start, why would you want to?

It's like, why would you want to push start your car ?

[Drumwoulf]

My original question had to do with doing it on a regular basis, would I be doing any damage if I make a habit of it...

I think people were asking back, you have electric start, why would you want to?

It's like, why would you want to push start your car ?

I KICKSTART BECAUSE I CAN. THERE NEED BE NO OTHER REASON...

[Johnny]

Greetings, fellow Chicagoan!
I would recommend pulling the battery during the really cold weather months and keeping it tendered occasionally inside a warm place. Extreme cold is really bad for batteries.
Your Buddy will suffer no harm from kickstarting. Besides, it looks cooler than pressing a button.
Some bikes, such as the Buddy, will run without a battery.
My CB350's won't.

[Ed Hit]

My original question had to do with doing it on a regular basis, would I be doing any damage if I make a habit of it...

I think people were asking back, you have electric start, why would you want to?

It's like, why would you want to push start your car ?

Sorry if my first post was not clear enough. My overall point was that on the days or weeks that it does not run, I am taking the battery inside for the battery tender, as I have no outside electricity source.

On those kind of days, if I want to start her up to let her warm up on the center stand, it would be really nice not to have to spend the 5 minutes with no gloves and frozen tools to re insert the battery, and then take it out. Be a lot easier to just kick start it and then shovel snow while Buddy warms up, vs trying to connect those cables with frozen hands!

I think Johnny hit the nail on the head, so thanks for the input!

[xtetra]

Do any of you find that sometimes the kick-starter "slips"? Mine just did this and having never had a kick-start anything I'm a bit new to the feel of it.

Everything started OK and I'll probably bring the battery in after toping off with gas tomorrow. (One last chilly ride before the winter.) Just hoping I didn't do any damage.

[Dooglas]

Do any of you find that sometimes the kick-starter "slips"? Mine just did this and having never had a kick-start anything I'm a bit new to the feel of it.

The ratchet mechanism on the kick starter of any motorcycle or scooter will sometimes not engage if not depressed firmly and smoothly. Of course any mechanical part can fail but, if its still working fine, I would guess that you only experienced the normal behavior of the beast.

[BGK]

Most modern, automatic transmission scoots aren't really made to be kick started, but that doesn't mean you can't do it.

The only modern scooter kick start lever that I wouldn't advise using all the time (but still works fine) is the ET4. I've never heard of problems with any other make or model other than the issue with the belt cover breaking out on the LEADER engine. The ET4 also has the issue with the anti-theft device requiring at least a little bit of power (I believe). But if it doesn't have that, any scooter with a kick start should be able to handle it on a regular basis, even without a battery. The stator/flywheel charges the ignition coil(s) and you spin the flywheel when you kick it over so it makes all the power it needs to run.

[ericalm]

Most modern, automatic transmission scoots aren't really made to be kick started, but that doesn't mean you can't do it.

The only modern scooter kick start lever that I wouldn't advise using all the time (but still works fine) is the ET4. I've never heard of problems with any other make or model other than the issue with the belt cover breaking out on the LEADER engine. The ET4 also has the issue with the anti-theft device requiring at least a little bit of power (I believe). But if it doesn't have that, any scooter with a kick start should be able to handle it on a regular basis, even without a battery. The stator/flywheel charges the ignition coil(s) and you spin the flywheel when you kick it over so it makes all the power it needs to run.

I know at least the LX shares this problem—MV members have reported cracked transmission housings as a result of attempting to kick start. I've kicked started my LX several times but it's not as easy as the Buddy. In fact, after buying a Battery Tender I removed the kick start lever and keep it stored in my pet carrier as it's mostly a nuisance and is more likely to screw up my transmission than save me when the battery is low.

I suspect that all the LEADER-engined scoots with kick start levers have the same problem, including the Piaggios and Aprilias.

[BGK]

I suspect that all the LEADER-engined scoots with kick start levers have the same problem, including the Piaggios and Aprilias.

Ya, I saw one in the shop the other day and it was just a round busted out hole. Very sad. It's gotta just be a very poor design on Piaggio's part. It's the only motor with that problem. It's a shame. I wouldn't buy a scooter without a kickstart lever.

[ericalm]

I suspect that all the LEADER-engined scoots with kick start levers have the same problem, including the Piaggios and Aprilias.

Ya, I saw one in the shop the other day and it was just a round busted out hole. Very sad. It's gotta just be a very poor design on Piaggio's part. It's the only motor with that problem. It's a shame. I wouldn't buy a scooter without a kickstart lever.

Well... it's one of the weird idiosyncrasies of Vespa ownership—one that most riders discover long after buying theirs. It's a design flaw that's been around for all too long, but they're still putting it on new models. Really, the kick start is superfluous on these scoots and is there to conform to buyer's concept of a "vintage style" modern scooter. Fortunately, it's not a necessary function and one that riders will seldom have to use.

Plus, I suspect the cracks only occur when people really kick the heck out of it because either way, it doesn't kick over easily at all.