2008 Buddy/Stella news

[illnoise]

my vast network of spies pays off again:

http://2strokebuzz.com/index.php/?p=3823

ONE HUNDRED FIFTY CUBIC CENTIMETER Buddy "International" editions in fantastic colors

50cc Italia

new Buddy colors

A few new Stellas in Jan, new colors, other small changes. More in May

Photos tonight, no time to prep them all right now, sorry.

Bryan

[polianarchy]

I'm so GREEN with jealousy!!!

[jetboy]

150cc Buddy - Wow! Yes, I feel I'm going to be jealous. Can't wait to test ride one. I wonder if there will be an engine kit made available for those of us with 125s? Hope so! Must start saving my butter and egg money...

-jetboy

[pcbikedude]

Might it be a Blur engine in a Buddy skin?
-or- a bigger Buddy?
Isn't fun to speculate?

[Corsair]

All I wanted was a faster Buddy! and now it's here... too bad I'm friggin broke

As far as no more Blur... they REALLY should have brought that 200cc over here. I really feel it would have made a big difference. It's a great looking scooter but the people I saw that were interested in a Blur were disappointed by the engine size and ended up getting a 250cc scooter from another company. I've personally seen Genuine's lack of a bigger scooter hurt their sales.

Can't wait to see pics though!

[ericalm]

So is this the first actual confirmation that the Stella is going back into regular production? We knew there were around 300 coming.

I'm still hoping for a CA Stella. And I thin kI have good reason to continue hoping. But Genuine needs to stop teasing us and just tell us if it's coming. Please!

Also, no more pink Buddy? That was a popular color (or so I thought). Maybe I should buy an entire set of pink body panels for the wife. Actually, that Buddy's going to be for sale if the Stella comes to CA...

...and maybe my LX 150, too!

[Corsair]

Also, no more pink Buddy? That was a popular color (or so I thought). Maybe I should buy an entire set of pink body panels for the wife.

The pink was definitely popular. They sold out here instantly.

[jrsjr]

A 150 Buddy with a factory Stebel horn?!? It's hard to imagine how they could make the Buddy much better, but if they have, it's going to be irresistable. Crap. See, now I may have to actually go ISO gainful employment to raise the $$$$ for one of those. Seriously.

[gt1000]

A 150 Buddy with a factory Stebel horn?!? It's hard to imagine how they could make the Buddy much better, but if they have, it's going to be irresistable. Crap. See, now I may have to actually go ISO gainful employment to raise the $$$$ for one of those. Seriously.

It does seem like Genuine is listening to us. With a 150, I wonder if we'll see alloy wheels and fatter tires? I still feel that the current tires and wheels are fine because my Buddy handles great. But nice wheels and a bigger foot print would look so much better. The stebel and the new colors are nice touches though and the 2 new special editions sound great.

I'm looking forward to test riding the 150 Bud and the new Stella but I'm putting so much money into my other bike that I'll probably have to put off the purchase of a new scoot for a long while.

[ericalm]

A 150 Buddy with a factory Stebel horn?!? It's hard to imagine how they could make the Buddy much better, but if they have, it's going to be irresistable. Crap. See, now I may have to actually go ISO gainful employment to raise the $$$$ for one of those. Seriously.

Last year, they upgraded the lights. This year, 150cc with a Stebel. They're giving us very little to complain about and taking care of most of our favorite mods!

[illnoise]

Actually, I can't find it in my notes, but I think pink *will be* available in limited quantities (or maybe to certain dealers? maybe just one displacement? I'll try to find out more). It's not on the official color list, though.

[echochamber]

Gotta love the one-fity cc's.

Now if they would:

1) make it in black
2) improve suspension
3) make it so I don't scape the center stand on LH turns

\e

[vaderscoot]

id love to see the 150 motor sold by its self. that way i wouldnt have to go back to the dmv and get a class M lisense

[ericalm]

id love to see the 150 motor sold by its self. that way i wouldnt have to go back to the dmv and get a class M lisense

You don't need one for a 125 but would for a 150? That's nuts!

I'm curious to know just how much of an improvement a 150 will be. More than kitting a 125, if such a kit existed?

[weaseltamer]

but i want pictures sooooo much!!

[vaderscoot]

id love to see the 150 motor sold by its self. that way i wouldnt have to go back to the dmv and get a class M lisense

You don't need one for a 125 but would for a 150? That's nuts!

I'm curious to know just how much of an improvement a 150 will be. More than kitting a 125, if such a kit existed?

in il you can get a class L that is less than 150cc's thats what i have and anything over 250cc's is a class M. a guy i know has a 150 china scooter and they made him get the M class

[Kevin K]

In Minnesota you need an endorsement for anything over 50cc's, so no big here.
-K

[Dooglas]

Also, no more pink Buddy? That was a popular color (or so I thought). Maybe I should buy an entire set of pink body panels for the wife. Actually, that Buddy's going to be for sale if the Stella comes to CA...

I suppose the popularity of the pink Buddy varied around the country but it was never a big seller here. The local dealer had a couple of '06 ones most of the way through the '07 year and has several of the '07s now as the '08 model year approaches. One also sat on craigslist around here for nearly two months, the very few other 125 Buddys on craigslist seem to be snapped up quite quickly.

[illnoise]

in il you can get a class L that is less than 150cc's thats what i have and anything over 250cc's is a class M. a guy i know has a 150 china scooter and they made him get the M class

No, in IL 150 and over is an M class. everything under is L, unless it has pedals, then it's a moped. Most 150s are technically a hair under 150, but if you take the test on one, they'll give you the M class license. The test is exactly the same, so they didn't "make" him do anything different, he's better off, he took the same test you'd take on a 125 but he's automatically allowed to drive a 1500cc sportbike.

Bb.

[ryder1]

Other big Genuine news: the 2008 Buddy line will feature three “International” Editions with 150cc engines (yes, 150cc, thats’ not a typo) at an MSRP of $2,999. The first is the “Series Italia” as seen in 2006, the two new models are “Saint-Tropez” in french blue and dove grey with a navy seat, and the “Pamplona” in Beige and Red with a tan seat. These two models are as distinctive and stunning (if not more so) than the Italia, and the idea of a Buddy with a 150cc engine (and a new Stebel airhorn standard) is nearly frightening.

The Series Italia will also be available in a limited-edition 50cc edition at $1999.

The 50 and 125cc Buddies remain pretty much the same, but with new colors: seafoam, powder blue, tangerine (looks yellow in photos), red, and black. 50ccs are $1899, 125s are $2599.

[Drumwoulf]

Maybe because I also have a GT200, I feel I can live w/o the Buddy 150 and be content with my 2007 125. However I definitely would like to replace my meep-meep horn with the new more powerful Stebel placed in the new Buddys! I'm guessing they'll prolly sell it separately, right?

[ericalm]

Maybe because I also have a GT200, I feel I can live w/o the Buddy 150 and be content with my 2007 125. However I definitely would like to replace my meep-meep horn with the new more powerful Stebel placed in the new Buddys! I'm guessing they'll prolly sell it separately, right?

You can already buy a Stebel horn separately.

[Hey Buddy]

Pictures!!!
On 2StrokeBuzz.

[Dooglas]

Pictures!!!
On 2StrokeBuzz.

That would be -

http://2strokebuzz.com/index.php/?p=3823

[illnoise]

Yep, photos are up. Also, be sure to read John Gerber's comments to that post, he's a hundred-times better-informed than I am, he'd be dangerous with a blog, ha. Note that I made several changes and added some details to the text, I got a bit more info from another source.

To answer a couple questions (to the best of my ability):

California seems very unlikely for now, but again, look at Gerber's comments, if LML actually gets their act together as far as quality and innovation, they've got the whole geared-scooter market to themselves. If they actually have a decent ET4 clone (is it a clone if it's made with Piaggio's old tooling?) coming out, they could soon be selling two "Piaggio" models that Piaggio doesn't even sell anymore, for far less than current Piaggios. And that California market would be a goldmine for Genuine and LML, and they know that. I wouldn't be surprised if, as John suggests, Piaggio is scrambling to get a new geared scooter out, the return of the PX to the US was clearly a reaction to the their loss of market share to the Stella. And mark my words, Bajaj will unveil a "new" Chetak exactly six months after it's too late to make a dent in the market.

The pink Buddy (50 and 125) apparently WILL be available in limited quantities to some dealers (I'm not really clear how that works, maybe the dealer has to place a pre-order before the production run?) The 50cc "mini" Series Italia sounds like it might be the same deal.

Yes, Stebels are readily available if you want to upgrade an old Buddy, I know there are upgrade instructions on Modern Vespa that may be helpful, if there aren't Buddy-specific instructions here.

I don't think the Buddy 150 is going to blow the 125 out of the water or anything, but it will hopefully be a reasonable improvement. From what I've heard about the Blur 150 vs. the 200, that was a good example of how extra displacement doesn't guarantee exponentially better performance, it's all in the engineering, and any scooter racer can tell you that losing 20 pounds can buy you more speed than adding 25 cc. (whether you choose to diet or add SPEED HOLES! to the bike is up to you) I dig the Buddy and all, but I honestly don't think you'd want an 85mph Buddy without some serious frame/suspension/brake upgrades.

As a Blur owner and evangelist, I'm disappointed to see the Blur go, too, but they just simply weren't selling. If you've ever thought about trying one, don't let that news stop you, they're in stock at most Genuine dealers and the '06s have been discounted. It's a great bike, and i wouldn't be surprised to see some Genuine-designed performance mods for it to help unload their stock. If that succeeds, I wouldn't be surprised to see new and improved Blurs in a year or two. Also, someone on the Blur board said PGO is changing their lineup around a lot to meet new Taiwanese emissions standards, so we can expect electronic fuel injection and other changes to the PGO line soon, that might explain why they've discontinued a few models. Most of the new Kymcos have EFI, so that makes sense.

Speaking of Kymco (why am I posting all this here and not on 2sb?) as I mentioned in the story, I've started hearing a few quality and engineering complaints about their new maxiscooters. It doesn't seem like the end of the world for them, but to go from making a range of 50cc scooters to making a 700cc maxi over the course of a few years probably takes its toll on a company. PGO seems committed to their niche, and to squeezing more performance out of small engines. I've never been a fan of maxiscooters, so I applaud that direction, but as a Genuine fan (though I like Kymco too), it's sad to see Genuine losing customers when Buddy owners "upgrade" to maxis. Have any of you guys thought you needed more displacement, only to realize that your 125cc Buddy was a lot more fun than your new overengineered 500cc monster? Don't believe the hype, 125/150cc is where it's at. : )

[ericalm]

Thanks for all the info, Bryan. I've been waiting for months for this announcement, as have many of us here.

I still think CA Stellas are a possibility, maybe in May. Genuine has been teasing the Californians with this for a while... I think they're even teasing the dealers.

Imagine a Genuine-imported ET clone! That could be huge and would really cut into LX and LXS sales. Maybe I should buy one of those ET full chrome kits on sale at Motorsport. Anyone planning on getting a Stella should pick up the chrome kit there—you'll never get a better price on a new complete kit.

[illnoise]

Interesting, just noticed Steve at the Scoop posted a story, too:

http://thescooterscoop.blogspot.com/200 ... n-way.html

his info is consistent with what I've heard, but he had a few other details:

Cleaner emissions (maybe they *are* CA-ready. But I really doubt it. Probably just some minor carb and/or exhaust tweaks.)
Improved paint (check)
New Halogen Headlamp (nice!)
New improved shocks (Hadn't heard that)
Zippy 1 Continental tires (check, with whitewalls on the avocado)
Italian Grimeca Disc (that seems to clarify that, though he might just be repeating what everyone's guessing. I could not get a definite answer on that.)

He also has photos of the powder blue Stella, apparently taken the same time as the photos I have.

I love pretending that I actually have to work hard for this stuff, rather than that Genuine is just purposefully leaking this stuff to us so we can do free PR for them, ha.

Those Stellas in the outdoor photos may be prototypes or paint tests, the bikes look otherwise identical to old ones, but who knows, the changes may be subtle. I was at first tempted to say all those Buddy photos were just photoshopped with different colors, but they're not, they're all from very slightly different angles. (and note the pamplona is missing the rear fender, surely not by design!)

Bb

[beelzebubbles]

All I wanted was a faster Buddy! and now it's here... too bad I'm friggin broke

As far as no more Blur... they REALLY should have brought that 200cc over here. I really feel it would have made a big difference. It's a great looking scooter but the people I saw that were interested in a Blur were disappointed by the engine size and ended up getting a 250cc scooter from another company. I've personally seen Genuine's lack of a bigger scooter hurt their sales.

Can't wait to see pics though!

Hear hear! I agree 100% with the idea of bringing in 200cc Blurs. When people looked at Buddys and Blurs and found a difference of 25cc's and about $1000, they usually chose Buddys. Of course there are many other differences (which is why I chose the Blur), but things like cc's and top speed are the kind of things people first look for, and the Blur didn't outpace the Buddy in those department by much. Also, the common complaint about the Blur 150 seemed to be, for a "sporty scoot", it felt just slightly underpowered - I think 200cc's would have taken care of that issue.

I'm happy and sticking with my Blur right now, but if I ever decide to ditch my 500cc scoot and just ride one scooter, I might have to consider Kymco's line of 200-250cc scooters, since Genuine doesn't have anything to offer in that range.

[DouglasLive]

Pictures!!!
On 2StrokeBuzz.

You know, being entirely subjective here, but the Series Italia is still the best looking of the "special editions." I was so worried I would fall in love with “Pamplona," but after seeing it --- meh. Now the Avacado Stella is another story! The "Powder Blue" is no slouch either.

[gt1000]

Have any of you guys thought you needed more displacement, only to realize that your 125cc Buddy was a lot more fun than your new overengineered 500cc monster? Don't believe the hype, 125/150cc is where it's at. : )

Couldn't have said it better myself. For my daily needs, nothing beats a small frame. Every size has its place but the Buddy/LX-150/Fly sized scoots are just about perfect for me. For weekends and canyon rides I'll take my big, non scooter bike and it's a blast. But, if I had to use my liter bike for every day commuting I'd be unhappy. A lot of the maxis weigh more than my motorcycle and I really loathe the idea of commuting with all that extra mass. I love the GT and GTS but even those look and feel a bit "bloated" to me.

When the new colors were first leaked a while back I kind of figured I'd love the avocado Stella, and I do. Are Zippy white walls tubeless? I also figured that the Pamplona would be the most striking Buddy and it has not disappointed, in fact, it looks better than I imagined. If only they could get the seat color a little closer to the cream body color. I also really like the yellow, blue and green Buds, especially with the black plastic bits.

Okay Genuine, you seem to be listening and I'm grateful for that. How about a Buddy S 150 or 200 next year? With improved suspension (adjustable rear shock especially), wheels, tires and brakes, if necessary? And if you decide to put this Buddy S technology into the new ET4 clone, I won't complain.

[ericalm]

Yeah, the 125/150s are perfect for my commuting/urban riding needs. There's never been a time that I wished for a higher overall top speed. I've wanted a little more power when climbing hills or riding 2-up, which is why my LX got a 190 kit this week.

Still, a Stella may be in my future. A large frame shifter is what I've always wanted and as much as I'm drawn to older Vespas, getting a brand new one has its appeal. It's really a matter of getting a CA Stella and then convincing the wife that if we need 2 cats, then I need 2 scoots. (There's a logic to that—in my mind at least.)

[lobsterman]

I'm trying to figure out how I could swing getting one of the remaining 07 Blurs, though last time I was in Metro Scooter they didn't have any left to sell.

Of course, the big thing would be convincing my wife I needed to spend the extra money involved in selling the 06 Buddy to buy the 07 Blur.

Primarily I am interested in the extra room on the Blur for 2-up riding, and the larger wheels which I think might give me some better handling on the WOT bits of my commute.

I am sorry to see Blur leave the lineup, but as some here said, maybe it will be back for 2009 with some changes.

[ericalm]

Couple other things I just noticed:

No more creme Buddy.

Black Buddy is now ALL black.

All non-special edition Buddys now have black seats, interior panels, headset bottoms and grips. So get those brown panels and brown or white grips now while they're still available.

IMHO, this helps make the 2-tone special editions all the more special. I'd really like to see numbered limited editions, as with old Stellas, but that may not be possible or cost-effective with these.

For the Genuine ET4, though...! (Wonder if that'd sport the GY-6 engine? That would be really bizarre.)

[lobsterman]

While we're at the panel parts discussion, it sure would be nice to have readily available plastic bits for cheap and easy customization and repair. Metro Scooter in Cincinnati has done some nice custom Buddys by swapping panels around, I'd like to be able to do that for myself.

[ericalm]

While we're at the panel parts discussion, it sure would be nice to have readily available plastic bits for cheap and easy customization and repair. Metro Scooter in Cincinnati has done some nice custom Buddys by swapping panels around, I'd like to be able to do that for myself.

You can order the panels. Like much of the Genuine parts supply, I have no idea how long it would take. But I've also seen several cool swaps...

[Dooglas]

While we're at the panel parts discussion, it sure would be nice to have readily available plastic bits for cheap and easy customization and repair. Metro Scooter in Cincinnati has done some nice custom Buddys by swapping panels around, I'd like to be able to do that for myself.

The key word is "readily" available. All of the replacement panels can be ordered as ericalm notes, the problem is the delay. In my case I was a able to get a couple of panels in a bit over two months, still waiting for a third on back order. Prices are reasonable enough though.

[Drumwoulf]

Hate to be a spoil sport here, but I think I will be anyway...

While I admire the look of the new 2-tone Buddys and do surely appreciate the move up to 150cc's, I still think there's something wrong with the kind of thinking that increases HP while decreasing the safety edge at the same time!
What I'm talking about is the use of less-safe tube tires on the 150cc Buddys, while the 125cc's retain (and rightly so) the safer tubeless rubber!
After riding for years on both types of tires, that difference, and that ALONE, would cause me to select the 125 over the 150!

Form should follow function. When you reverse this concept on a motorbike, safety, quality, and comfort, all suffer...

But damn! -They got a yellow one now? Shhhheeesh! My fav!
Oh well, at least my 'creamer' will become a collector's item more quickly now that it's discontinued...

[ericalm]

But damn! -They got a yellow one now? Shhhheeesh! My fav!
Oh well, at least my 'creamer' will become a collector's item more quickly now that it's discontinued...

It's not yellow. I think it's a similar tangering orange to the old Stellas. It just isn't the correct color in the photos. Early pics of the SI were inaccurate, too.

[chelsea]

What I'm talking about is the use of less-safe tube tires on the 150cc Buddys, while the 125cc's retain (and rightly so) the safer tubeless rubber!

All of the 2008 Buddys that come from the with whitewall tires will feature tubeless whitewalls...I forget what company makes them, but they really are tubeless.

[maryvu]

I think i'm going to hold out for an avocado or powder blue Stella... I'm thrilled about the upgrades, especially the halogen light, and i think new positioning of blinker/kill switches. Nothing like riding buddy, then stella and honking your horn when you mean to turn left...!

[hcstrider]

What I'm talking about is the use of less-safe tube tires on the 150cc Buddys, while the 125cc's retain (and rightly so) the safer tubeless rubber!

All of the 2008 Buddys that come from the with whitewall tires will feature tubeless whitewalls...I forget what company makes them, but they really are tubeless.

Excuse my ignorance but what makes a tubeless tire safer than a tubed tire?

[Kevin K]

What I'm talking about is the use of less-safe tube tires on the 150cc Buddys, while the 125cc's retain (and rightly so) the safer tubeless rubber!

All of the 2008 Buddys that come from the with whitewall tires will feature tubeless whitewalls...I forget what company makes them, but they really are tubeless.

I heard somewhere that they are going with Maxxis whitewalls, but I can't confirm that rumor.

I'm on my second Shinko whitewall on my P. I've been VERY happy with them.
-K

[Drumwoulf]

What I'm talking about is the use of less-safe tube tires on the 150cc Buddys, while the 125cc's retain (and rightly so) the safer tubeless rubber!

All of the 2008 Buddys that come from the with whitewall tires will feature tubeless whitewalls...I forget what company makes them, but they really are tubeless.

Thenthat would be a first (and much appreciated!). All of the whitewalls that are used like on the '07 Italia now are (AFAIK), tubed types...

[illnoise]

All of the 2008 Buddys that come from the with whitewall tires will feature tubeless whitewalls...I forget what company makes them, but they really are tubeless.

Chelsea's missing a few words there, but I'm under the impression the 150 "European" models have whitewalls and the 125s and 50s don't, and the photos on 2SB are that way. But Chelsea would know more than me, probably.

Bb.

[Drumwoulf]

What I'm talking about is the use of less-safe tube tires on the 150cc Buddys, while the 125cc's retain (and rightly so) the safer tubeless rubber!

All of the 2008 Buddys that come from the with whitewall tires will feature tubeless whitewalls...I forget what company makes them, but they really are tubeless.

Excuse my ignorance but what makes a tubeless tire safer than a tubed tire?

What's the difference? Why would I rant against tube tires with unsealed rims?
Okay, you're riding down I-80 or I-95 at a nice comfortable 65mph. Traffic
is all around you; ore carriers, semi's, moving vans, Cadillacs and Lincolns
and Toyota Echos...
Suddenly your front tire hits a wood screw that should not be in the road, but is! (It happens...)
The front tire bounces harmlessly off the screw, only to flip and throw it back into the rear tire
at such an angle that it is braced perfectly against the concrete to effortlessly penetrate your rear tire!
(Which is exactly the way the vast majority of flats occur..) What happens next?

Scenario A.]
You have tubeless tires (radials or not, makes no difference here) seated on
sealed rims. The wood screw penetrates the tire. The rubber of the tire
closes (somewhat) around the puncture, but of course not completely... But
this tire is sealed onto the rim; air cannot escape that way, it can only
leak out past the screw in the tire! Which it does of course, but slowly...
So you arrive at your destination (perhaps an hour later,) safely.
The next morning you come out to look at your bike, and the rear tire is flat!
You curse; this is a real, genuine pain in the butt!
(And this is what mostly happens with this kind of flat. Not always of
course, but probably 95% of the time!)

Scenario B.]
You have tubed tires with unsealed rims. The wood screw
penetrates the tube, blowing it apart instantly like the balloon that it is.
The air escapes into the tire. The tire is not sealed to the rim, so the air
instantly escapes from the tire too and in less than 5 seconds you have a
shuddering, flipping, mass of squashed rubber that was once a tire. And this
mass is slamming around and around on your wheel at 65 mph....

A puncture riding at speed may never happen to you.
But if it does, which scenario wuuld you prefer..?
In 27 years of riding I've had punctures both ways.
Most of the time the tubless flats I never noticed until the next day.
But a tubed tire flat damn near killed me on a busy hiway!!
So I ride ONLY on tubeless now...!

Tube tires have been outlawed as OEM automobile equipment for maybe 75 years
now because of safety issues. (Have you ever seen an old 1930's movie where the car
turns over after a blow-out at high speed? It really used to happen!) So I
find it absolutely astonishing that I have to explain safety issues re
the difference between tubed and tubeless tires to motorbike riders in
2007!!

[ericalm]

What I'm talking about is the use of less-safe tube tires on the 150cc Buddys, while the 125cc's retain (and rightly so) the safer tubeless rubber!

All of the 2008 Buddys that come from the with whitewall tires will feature tubeless whitewalls...I forget what company makes them, but they really are tubeless.

Excuse my ignorance but what makes a tubeless tire safer than a tubed tire?

Just in case you're allergic to rants, here's the short answer: tubed tires blow out, tubeless one don't (the leak slowly until flat).

A tubeless that goes flat on the freeway at 65 mph is still a big hazard. I rode—slowly, half pushing/half riding—on a mostly flat tubeless once and my back end was sliding around and very difficult to control at all.

[mlstephens]

Interesting, just noticed Steve at the Scoop posted a story, too: <snip>

his info is consistent with what I've heard, but he had a few other details:

<snip>

New improved shocks (Hadn't heard that)

<snip>

Those Stellas in the outdoor photos may be prototypes or paint tests, the bikes look otherwise identical to old ones, but who knows, the changes may be subtle.

In the pictures the front shocks do not look like the Indian "Bitubos". Wondering how they might be improved?

[Kevin K]

I think that they're Gabriels. I believe that the last batch of Stellas had them.
-K

[Drumwoulf]

Just in case you're allergic to rants, here's the short answer: tubed tires blow out, tubeless one don't (the leak slowly until flat).
A tubeless that goes flat on the freeway at 65 mph is still a big hazard. I rode—slowly, half pushing/half riding—on a mostly flat tubeless once and my back end was sliding around and very difficult to control at all.

All punctures/flats can, and do, react differently and all are hazards at different levels. All I'm saying is that tubeless gives you a much better edge when a puncture occurs. -Much better, AFAIC... (I notice that even tho it was a ~hairy~ experience you didn't go down when your tubeless got a flat. This might not have been the case with a tubed tire...)

I once had a quick flat with a tube, and it was only by the grace of God that all the fast moving traffic behind me didn't roll over me while my bike fishtailed across two hiway lanes! That, and the fact that a compassionate soul put his car behind me for protection and gradually slowed behind me as I fought to maintain control! I never met this guy because after I stopped he went on by. But I may just owe him my life..!

Riding is of course filled with various and sundry dangers. So I want and appreciate all of the 'edge' I can get. I've had several flats with tubeless that I didn't discover until the next morning. And once when I was broke, had no car, (and was very busy), I rode around with a nail in a tubeless bike tire and kept refilling the slow leak for several days (which I do not recommend!) until I could get it fixed..

So I know (definitey!) where my edge is when it comes to scooter and motorcycle tires.......

[ericalm]

Just in case you're allergic to rants, here's the short answer: tubed tires blow out, tubeless one don't (the leak slowly until flat).
A tubeless that goes flat on the freeway at 65 mph is still a big hazard. I rode—slowly, half pushing/half riding—on a mostly flat tubeless once and my back end was sliding around and very difficult to control at all.

All punctures/flats can, and do, react differently and all are hazards at different levels. All I'm saying is that tubeless gives you a much better edge when a puncture occurs. -Much better, AFAIC... (I notice that even tho it was a ~hairy~ experience you didn't go down when your tubeless got a flat. This might not have been the case with a tubed tire...)

I once had a quick flat with a tube, and it was only by the grace of God that all the fast moving traffic behind me didn't roll over me while my bike fishtailed across two hiway lanes! That, and the fact that a compassionate soul put his car behind me for protection and gradually slowed behind me as I fought to maintain control! I never met this guy because after I stopped he went on by. But I may just owe him my life..!

Riding is of course filled with various and sundry dangers. So I want and appreciate all of the 'edge' I can get. I've had several flats with tubeless that I didn't discover until the next morning. And once when I was broke, had no car, (and was very busy), I rode around with a nail in a tubeless bike tire and kept refilling the slow leak for several days (which I do not recommend!) until I could get it fixed..

So I know (definitey!) where my edge is when it comes to scooter and motorcycle tires.......

Oh, I wasn't disagreeing with you. Simply condensing the information.

Apparently it may be moot as these might actually be tubeless whitewalls, not Shinkos. If so, kudos to Genuine! I'll be talking to someone from the company next week and will ask for a complete rundown on all the new scoots.