Is a kitted Buddy 125 legally recognized as a 161?

MPZ · Post by **MPZ** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:10 pm

I have been riding on a permit and need to take the test for my license before the permit expires.
Here in Illinois there are two classes of motorcycle licenses- class "L", which allows you to operate a scooter or mc with an engine from 50cc to 149cc, and class "M", which allows you to operate a scooter or mc from 150cc and higher(no limit).Whichever size engine is in the scooter or mc that you take the test with determines the type of license you are issued.I have a Buddy 125 which has been modified with the Prima 161 kit.
My question is, can I legally claim that my scooter is over 150 cc so that I wouldn't have to retake the test in the event I purchased a larger displacement scooter in the future?(I hate to go to the DMV)Will the fact that there are stickers that say "Buddy 125" on my scooter raise doubts on the DMV's part? I just want to be prepared to answer any of their technical questions-I couldn't get any answers when I called their info help line.
Thanks for any advice.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:32 pm

Wow, that's totally unique!

There are a lot of folks from IL here, maybe one of them has come across this before.

Good luck on the test. if your DMV is anything like here, you have my sympathies.

MGM · Post by **MGM** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:13 pm

I believe that from a strictly legal sense you HAVE to tell them. The law is based on actual displacement. Yours is a 161.You could probably get away with not revealing it's been modified as it's not easy to tell if the jug was replaced, but since you may get a larger bike in the future, there no advantage to you. I don't think there will be an issue in taking the test if you explain it's a modified scoot and now is 161 cc.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:42 pm

You might have to explain it a few times to a few different people, but if your scooter has a 161cc engine, it doesn't matter what the badges on it say. It's legally a 161cc scooter.

Edwub · Post by **Edwub** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:44 pm

Call (or visit) your local DMV, or ask the question on their online website. You may need proof of purchase & install (paperwork or a signed document from your dealer/mechanic) to verify your scooter has 161cc.

Also ask if you need anything else, and get an employee ID number (if you're on the phone) or print the emails/DMV webpage responses --- just in case you show up for your appointment, and the person you're talking to has no idea what's going on and says "the title says 125."

"Yes, I realize that, but here is a copy of the email stating that I can...."
or "I spoke with 'John Smith' here, employee ID# 123, on Thursday the 30th, and he told me all I needed to bring was X, Y, Z documents, which I have here. It is 161cc, so I want the class M license."

Diligence! That way you're completely covered on both ends.

Robbie · Post by **Robbie** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:15 pm

I don't think you'll succeed.

I cannot think of any way to change things......your title says it is a 125 and Illinois bases everything off of vin# and description.

Since there never has a been a Genuine Buddy 161, the state has no way to recognize it and no way to change licensing.

In Il. all 149cc and below have blue characters on the plate.
150cc and larger will have red characters.
This is how the po-po know if you are authorized to be on a limited access road.

I would recommend, however, that you take your test on a 150 or larger machine so you can get the full 'M' endorsement.

Rob

Witch · Post by **Witch** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:58 pm

Really really depends on your local DMV folks.

For example, when I was in California, I brought my kitted Scarabeo 50 with me. So technically, it was a 70cc. They treated it as such, and required all the paperwork and inspections in order for me to get it properly registered. I even had to have a shop verify the displacement (not that I was worried or anything, but it did seem like an awful lot to go through when I was actually being honest about it from the get-go).

If I had had that same scoot when I was in Colorado, it would have been registered as a 50cc, regardless. Their DMV goes strictly off the VIN, and if the original frame VIN says it's a 50, it's a 50. You can drop a 150cc GY6 into a Ruckus in Colorado, and it will still be registered as a 50. There isn't even a way to tell the DMV to do otherwise.

illnoise · Post by **illnoise** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:53 pm

The plates are different (or at least used to be) for a L-class vs an M-class. Even if they are the same now, It's registered on the title as one or the other, most likely 125 if that's what it was when you registered it, and you're paying insurance and fees based on that displacement. When you go to take the test, they're going to go by badges and registration, which is understandable.

It's CERTAINLY smart to skip the L-class and get an M-class, just to avoid never having to deal with it again. But I think trying to convince the tester it's a 160 and/or dealing with the paperwork to officially change it is probably going to be frustrating and maybe more expensive. It's MAYBE worth a try, but it's a big waste of time if they don't go for it. I'd suggest borrowing a bigger-displacement bike to take the test. Preferably a Buddy, because you're used to handling it and you'll be more comfortable. Ask my wife how taking the test on a much bigger bike than she was used to worked out for her, ha.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:56 pm

Robbie wrote:I don't think you'll succeed. I cannot think of any way to change things......your title says it is a 125 and Illinois bases everything off of vin# and description.

Many states include the color of the vehicle on the title. If you repaint the vehicle you can (should) change the color on the title. If you move, you can (should) change your address on the title. If you legally change your name, you can (should) change the name on the title. Why would this be any different?

Robbie · Post by **Robbie** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:36 pm

Dooglas wrote:
Robbie wrote:I don't think you'll succeed. I cannot think of any way to change things......your title says it is a 125 and Illinois bases everything off of vin# and description.
Many states include the color of the vehicle on the title. If you repaint the vehicle you can (should) change the color on the title. If you move, you can (should) change your address on the title. If you legally change your name, you can (should) change the name on the title. Why would this be any different?

I cannot think of any DMV that has anyone employed possessing common sense....but I digress.

Regarding color changes, or engine changes I can only look at the Illinois side of things.
I suppose you could change the color due to a panel replacement but then there are fees, inspections, confused DMV people deciding how to handle this.....this after standing in a line for, maybe, hours.
Same applies to your name but they would want to reissue a new title with the new name, again with fees, and in this state, you can sign the back at sale time by inserting Micky Mouse.....it will be accepted cause everyone at the DMV is afraid to rock the boat.

If you had a 1990 Camaro with a 305 V-8 and decided to put a 2006 LS-7 (427 C.I.) in it, there is no way to make the title reflect the change, because............there is no such thing as a 1990 427 Camaro, so the system won't allow it.
Here in Il. it'll be a 305 Camaro till it gets crushed, just like the guys that put a GY6 engine and sub frame into/onto their 50cc Ruckus....it'll always be a titled 50cc Ruckus.

Frankly, I like it this way......I could turn the Ruckus back to stock someday and it would be far more saleable than one that is modified.

If the 161 was mine, I wouldn't mention it to a prospective buyer......he ends up with the best running 125 anyone has ever seen.
And, the engine is so bullitproof, no one will ever have to open it up anyways.....so whats that gonna hurt?

Lastly, at resale time, would you, as a prospective buyer want a muckered up title reflecting a modified machine when two miles away you can buy a non messed with, clean titled vehicle?

Something to consider,

Rob