Beyond the Ninjette: More small motorcycles

[Tristik]

~~
Here's an article on Hell for Leather that shows some good pics of the upcoming CBR500 and CB500X. Honda hasn't said anything yet so no clue if these are even going to come to the US.

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2012/ ... 00-family/
~~

[Rusty Shackleford]

I just asked the Honda dealer about it today. They said they were told what they were getting for 2013 models and there was no mention of the CBR500 or NC700S. The CBR250R and NC700X will again be the only choices in the states apparently.

[phatch]

The CBR250R and NC700X will again be the only choices in the states apparently.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeak...

[jrsjr]

I just asked the Honda dealer about it today. They said they were told what they were getting for 2013 models and there was no mention of the CBR500 or NC700S. The CBR250R and NC700X will again be the only choices in the states apparently.

That's way better than nothing, I guess. Did they happen to mention anything about scooters?

[JAEGER]

Not "meh." Just "bad."

Was trying to be diplomatic.

My information is vague, but was told by smart, industry-knowledgeable "you don't want to do that."

i like the Triumph Bonneville line up but have read some taller riders such as myself find it cramped as a daily rider.

Yeah? How tall are you? I'm just shy 6' and I've put a lot of miles on my friend's Bonnie, and he's a wee taller than I am and has a gazillion miles on it. Additionally, if you dig the Bonnies but are concerned about leg room, check out the Speedmaster/Americas -- the footpegs are WAAAY out there. A gorilla would have room. (Side note: If you're worried about handling, fear not: Triumph doesn't make a bike that doesn't corner well. Trust me, I've surprised enough unwary sportbike squids. )

For what it's worth, I know exactly what you mean.1 I loved my SV650, but that thing friggin' killed my knees. That's one of the reasons I got rid of it.

once an mc is finally chosen and actually purchased i will still ride my scooters a lot. probably more then the mc. so it doesn't have to be perfect. but something i can live with each and every time on and off, yes

As someone who came from the other direction (mc --> scooter) I certainly do, but it's because I live my life in a 7-mile radius (normally more like 4).

i saw the new European Ninja 250 on youtube hitting 100mph with no trouble at all

I can tell you from personal experience that yes, the Ninja 250 can do the ton (and I was on an old one, I think from the mid 90s).

The K75s were really special machines.

Got to test ride a couple some years ago. Both were fantastic bikes. At the time they were the smoothest engine I'd ever experienced (and still might be, need a side-by-side with the Triumph S3).

[Rusty Shackleford]

Did they happen to mention anything about scooters?

I only casually asked because there's already 2013's listed on the website... the Metropolitan and the PCX150 that is. I don't know what's going on, but their line up is very narrow. Basically nothing new outside of the line up they're currently showing online. Disappointing, but at least they brought the NC700X here to add an adventure bike to the line up.

[az_slynch]

Did they happen to mention anything about scooters?

I only casually asked because there's already 2013's listed on the website... the Metropolitan and the PCX150 that is. I don't know what's going on, but their line up is very narrow. Basically nothing new outside of the line up they're currently showing online. Disappointing, but at least they brought the NC700X here to add an adventure bike to the line up.

Surprising that the Ruckus is out again. I hope that they haven't killed it off in favor of the Zoomer X or something else. Maybe it'll come back with EFI or a bigger motor (one can hope).

[Rusty Shackleford]

To correct my previous posts, the debut of Honda's 2013 models happens on November 12th. There's a countdown to unveiling on their website. We'll all have the real story then. Who knows what may be in store.

[scootavaran]

To correct my previous posts, the debut of Honda's 2013 models happens on November 12th. There's a countdown to unveiling on their website. We'll all have the real story then. Who knows what may be in store.

I would really love to see them update the Rebel for once.
Although I have come to the conclusion that Honda is to motorcycles as Russians are to weapons. "Why fix whats not broken."

[JHScoot]

outstanding thread! i want to thank those who have responded to MY n00b questions! its all been very helpful and has helped me understand more about mc's from a community with lots of experience. and the suggestions for "first" mc have been great and led me new places and shown me new potential

this bike hasn't been mentioned yet itt. the newer versions are EFI, older are carb. either way they can be super low cost alternatives. the Hyosung GT250. and its said to be a more full sized bike. like a 650 or something.

any QC issues with this brand / model? reliability, parts supply / cost, etc?. they are commonly on sale for $3500 and msrp for $3800. i figure an OTD of $4000 or so is realistic, perhaps.

[jrsjr]

...any QC issues with this brand / model? reliability, parts supply / cost, etc?. they are commonly on sale for $3500 and msrp for $3800. i figure an OTD of $4000 or so is realistic, perhaps.

I don't have the link, but if you search for 250 comparo Hyosung Kawasaki Honda, there are a couple comparison articles out there. The Hyosung's are well-made, competent motorcycles, but they aren't a Honda or a Kawasaki with their brand-name recognition and dealer and parts supply networks. As a result, the Hyosung will not have the resale value of a Honda or a Kawasaki. And that's the problem. The Hyosungs are not cheap junk. They cost roughly the same as a Kawasaki. So, if the price is about the same, but the resale value isn't the same... you see where I'm going with this? The economics just aren't there. I think that's why they haven't caught on. However, if you've got a decent dealer and they are willing to give you a good deal on it, there's no good reason not to consider it. Sorry to be so long-winded, but I've been thinking about this because my local motorcycle shop added Hyosung last month, so now I, too, have another small bike alternative to think about. Hope this helps rather than add to the confusion.

[JHScoot]

no no not long-winded at all. not for the newcomer to 'cycles. i have read a couple of comparos and as you know opinions differ. some say the brakes are mushy, others say strong. some don't like the ride and find it unstable at highway speed, and another says the highway is where it shines. etc

one thing most agree on is its relative low tech, however. air cooled means heat they say, and vibrations above 8000rpm is said to be annoying. something i can deal with coming from scooters, of course. the tires are said to be so-so, the suspension just as well. even for its class. 5 speed, a bit "notchy." w/e that is like on a mc?

the main write-up i read on the R version is its 250cc cannot live up to its "big bike" supersport styling what with its clip on bars and flat seat. its said its too agressive for the bike and not well suited for everyday riding. yet those that would not mind it for performance don't care. but the R does not perform, exactly. its a 250! so it said it feels like a big 250 that is fun for the twisties on weekends, but not a daily rider for comfort OR performance. seems granny don't mind, though



BUT the regular "naked" version is said to be more in character with the bikes performance. not bad, not great. a bit big and heavy for what it is, but spry enough. good torque, highway speeds, "just a motorcycle."

i can deal with that. but the L.A summers concern me with air cooling. the thighs might get hot

oh and yes,....depreciation / resale value. hear you loud and clear on that one. i will always get my very BEST deal, new or used with that in mind. hey, i haven't even read about the 650's yet. same size bike, goes faster

[Robbie]

Don't be concerned about air cooling from the machines point of view.
It would eventually overheat if you sat motionless at 4000 rpm or so.
This because it needs air moving over the fins to keep with the higher BTU's that come with rpm....in this example, 4000.

But, at idle, the btu's given off and radiated off the fins is more than adequate.

You nailed it though when you mention hot thighs and legs.
On a hot day, stuck at a light, the heat rising off the engine (as well as the asphalt and other cars) is, uh,......memorable......no, it's just damn hot.

At low speeds you will feel a fair amount of heat blowing off the cases....higher speeds cool the engine enouph that the heat is rarly noticed.

I agree with the above about the resale and potental parts issue but, at the same time, can't fault the Koreans on their general quality of product.

Rob

[jrsjr]

To correct my previous posts, the debut of Honda's 2013 models happens on November 12th. There's a countdown to unveiling on their website. We'll all have the real story then. Who knows what may be in store.

Okay then, thanks to Rusty Shackleford, I set my alarm and am at the screen at 4 bloody AM for the unveiling.

So, inquiring minds wanna know, what's in store for Honda USA in 2013?

In the way of scooters, what's in store for Honda USA in 2013 is the Metropolitan, the Ruckus, the PCX 150 and Silverwing ABS.

In the way of motorcycles, what's in store for Honda USA is a new Goldwing low-windshield bagger reminiscent of the Harley Street Gllide - the F6B, a naked retro-inspired bike - the CB1100, a Repsol livery repli-racer - the CBR600RR, a little brother for the NC700X - the CB500X, a stylish street-fighter 500 - the CB500F, and a big brother to the CBR250R - the CBR500R.

[Dooglas]

In the way of scooters, what's in store for Honda USA in 2013 is the Metropolitan, the Ruckus, the PCX 150 and Silverwing ABS.

Perhaps inevitable, but pretty disappointing isn't it? This is the company that builds the SH300i and the 700 Integra.

[jrsjr]

In the way of scooters, what's in store for Honda USA in 2013 is the Metropolitan, the Ruckus, the PCX 150 and Silverwing ABS.

Perhaps inevitable, but pretty disappointing isn't it? This is the company that builds the SH300i and the 700 Integra.

It is disappointing. I was hoping for the SH300i, no doubt about about it. The SH300i is built in Italy and the currency exchange rate makes it prohibitive. Also, the SH150i was a sales disappointment. Still, I was hoping against hope...

[Dooglas]

I was hoping against hope...

Well, me too. And I didn't think the Integra was entirely an unrealistic hope. Honda is selling/has sold two other versions of the same bike in the US. Heck, that means most of the parts and most of the service training are already here. Surely something will replace the Silverwing at some point - or not!

[Lance Corona]

It appears Suzuki has a new offering for the entry level market.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/839/14880 ... -2013.aspx

[jrsjr]

It appears Suzuki has a new offering for the entry level market.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/839/14880 ... -2013.aspx

Thanks for posting that! It looks like Suzuki made an effort to clean up that battleship fantail on the big Burgman. That one styling aspect was always so wrong that I couldn't get past it to look at the rest of the bike.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Honda answered every gripe I had about their American line-up with this release. Well done, Team Red!

[Dooglas]

Honda answered every gripe I had about their American line-up with this release.

Hmm, your list of gripes must be different than mine . I love the heck out of the new CB1100, but the narrowing scooter offerings make one wonder where Honda is headed with future scooter models in the US. (actually more than wondering - looks like we are going nowhere with future Honda scooter offerings in the US based on this)

[Dooglas]

It looks like Suzuki made an effort to clean up that battleship fantail on the big Burgman.

Well, hey. Here on this SCOOTER website, we are certainly looking for anything new from the well-respected Japanese makers in the scooter arena. And what is evidently the only news - some cosmetic redesign of the big Burgman and other upgrades. Thanks Suzuki. Some scooter news from an unexpected corner.

[jrsjr]

It looks like Suzuki made an effort to clean up that battleship fantail on the big Burgman.

Well, hey. Here on this SCOOTER website, we are certainly looking for anything new from the well-respected Japanese makers in the scooter arena. And what is evidently the only news - some cosmetic redesign of the big Burgman and other upgrades. Thanks Suzuki. Some scooter news from an unexpected corner.

LOL. I always felt like the fantail of that scooter needed nautical markings or flags or something. Now it looks like a motorbike. Sorta. The haters will still H8IT, but....

[Lance Corona]

It appears Suzuki has a new offering for the entry level market.

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/839/14880 ... -2013.aspx

Thanks for posting that! It looks like Suzuki made an effort to clean up that battleship fantail on the big Burgman. That one styling aspect was always so wrong that I couldn't get past it to look at the rest of the bike.

Yeah, Suzuki did some nice improvements to the Burgman....I like it in white too.

[jrsjr]

KTM officially unveiled the Duke 390 today! Here's a link to the deets at Motorcycledaily.com. 44 Horsepower! Vrooom! Vroom!

[jrsjr]

Also, I forgot to mention that Suzuki did, indeed, introduce a stylish street fighter 250, the GW250, today.

[JHScoot]

Also, I forgot to mention that Suzuki did, indeed, introduce a stylish street fighter 250, the GW250, today.

yup! its like small bike heaven going down in America or something

now if this bike can outperform the Honda CBR250 and cruise at 80mph with my 220lb ass on it, i might be there if the price remains at a previously announced $4099

pretty sure i'd enjoy this bike if its a good one and its not too small








<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9njDNicwN9Q" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[siobhan]

KTM officially unveiled the Duke 390 today! Here's a link to the deets at Motorcycledaily.com. 44 Horsepower! Vrooom! Vroom!

...this should be marked NSFW. How am I gonna sneak that into the garage w/o the boyfriend noticing?

[JHScoot]

[jrsjr]

KTM officially unveiled the Duke 390 today! Here's a link to the deets at Motorcycledaily.com. 44 Horsepower! Vrooom! Vroom!

[NSFBF Image]

...this should be marked NSFW. How am I gonna sneak that into the garage w/o the boyfriend noticing?

[JHScoot]

been reading more about the little suzuki and am a bit underwhelmed. i know i don't care for its looks. the studio shots make it look decent but regular ones sort of make it look cheap. i see this and my advice would be "why get that when you can get a scooter?"

seems the little ninja has raised the bar too high. its not enough to say "well its a 300. this is a 250." of course the ninja five or six hundred more, too. pfft, big deal. resale will take care of that, anyway. its win / win if the bike fits a person

but this suzuzki? i don't know....

[jrsjr]

the studio shots make it look decent but regular ones sort of make it look cheap.

I didn't like the look of the bike in that pic on the carpet. The plastic does make it look cheap, but there is something else about it that bothers me. I think what's bothering me is that the design looks really busy. Look at all the different colors and textures and finishes and shapes of the flat panels that meet the eye in that pic. I counted 15 at least w/out counting the seat, tires and things where there really isn't much choice about the material and shape. It looks like a patchwork quilt that was thrown together without anybody making an effort to pull it all together into a coherent-looking design. I still think it would be fun to ride...

[phatch]

the studio shots make it look decent but regular ones sort of make it look cheap.

I didn't like the look of the bike in that pic on the carpet. The plastic does make it look cheap, but there is something else about it that bothers me. I think what's bothering me is that the design looks really busy. Look at all the different colors and textures and finishes and shapes of the flat panels that meet the eye in that pic. I counted 15 at least w/out counting the seat, tires and things where there really isn't much choice about the material and shape. It looks like a patchwork quilt that was thrown together without anybody making an effort to pull it all together into a coherent-looking design. I still think it would be fun to ride...

Completely agree- you said what my subconscious was telling me. "Why don't I like the look of this bike?"...

[Southerner]

I'm one of the oddballs who happened to like the sci-fi look of the B-King, right down to the Batbike tailpipes. But for a budget 250, they had to dial it down to make it affordable.

Suzuki has always had to be the bargain brand of the Big Four, mainly because it's the smallest of the four. Their design department will often resort to extraneous plastic, in my view. And the economic downturn hit them harder than the others, I'm told.

With that in mind, I think it important to note that Suzuki, who had already introduced the TU250 single, has introduced yet another and completely different bike in this class. This is a big move for them, and it reinforces the new importance of smaller bikes in the U.S. market.

I think that for my weight and bulk, a 500 would be better but who knows what's next?

[JHScoot]

ok guys i know this is a thread about small motorcycles but honestly, what the hell is this?

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/mc ... 52153.html

street legal, but c'mon!

[Robbie]

Honda's version, here in the U.S., was ZB-50, a one year (1988 f memory serves) model.

Same engine/trans (semi auto three speed) as they've used since 1968.

I have never operated the larger displacement manual trans Chinese versions as shown but the original Honda drove quite well albeit somewhat underpowered.
Those were also street legal but better kept on sidestreets.

Rob

[phatch]

ok guys i know this is a thread about small motorcycles but honestly, what the hell is this?

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/mc ... 52153.html

street legal, but c'mon!

They say "Head turns 100% guaranteed", yeah, no kidding...

[Tristik]

Not a huge fan of the hooligan look, but that Duke looks sexy and mean.

[Southerner]

Hopefully Suzuki will follow up with a 500cc twin.

I hope the CB1100 is a runaway success. If so, the others will copy and we will get KZ1000s, GS1000s, etc. and also smaller retro bikes.

I think anything in the half-liter range is better off as a twin. Honda once produced a beautiful 400 4-cylinder but it was "too much sugar for a dime" and the eventual replacement was a twin, and quite a good one. I would have bought a Hawk 400 if I hadn't gone for the Suzuki 450.

[jartist]

When do you suppose skyteam will get a shipping container full of their Ace line of bikes?
http://moto-scoot.net/skyteam_ace.php

[Southerner]

Now that's interesting. I find the ergonomics of cafe racers not to my liking but this one has such an authentic look, it's hard to resist.

Wonder what the price will be?

Update: The bike is on Suzuki's site now but price is still TBA. Suzuki now has 4 standards in their lineup.

But still the same superscoots. Surely they could introduce one normal scoot to the U.S. to compete with the PCX.

[JHScoot]

the studio shots make it look decent but regular ones sort of make it look cheap.

I didn't like the look of the bike in that pic on the carpet. The plastic does make it look cheap, but there is something else about it that bothers me. I think what's bothering me is that the design looks really busy. Look at all the different colors and textures and finishes and shapes of the flat panels that meet the eye in that pic. I counted 15 at least w/out counting the seat, tires and things where there really isn't much choice about the material and shape. It looks like a patchwork quilt that was thrown together without anybody making an effort to pull it all together into a coherent-looking design. I still think it would be fun to ride...

oh yeah. the bike would be a good ride. in fact i really don't care about styling / plastics / image much at all. i am more interested in what a bike does, not what it looks like, exactly.

but aesthetics do count whether simple or elaborate. and like you suggest, this styling just looks somewhat patchwork and cheapy. and i think this is the only color available. maybe some changes will be made?

i like this small suzuki but am afraid its size and top speed (i read just under 80mph) would not be adequate for L.A freeway use, most likely. but what a cool little bike that seems "just a bike" in the best sense. probably a better beginners bike then the commonly chosen Rebel or even Ninjette. not sure if its been mentioned in the thread yet, but i like it

have you ever rode one? anyone here. maybe?

[Southerner]

That is a TU250, It's a fairly new bike as well. I believe it's fuel injected but otherwise very conventional. I believe it would be as good as, but probably not superior to, the Rebel. I've only seen one in the Suzuki shop but it's decently sized for a medium sized adult.

I would think twice about taking it on a freeway, not that we have so many around here. The Ninja would be better for that.

[ericalm]

TU250 not for sale in CA. I think that's the overseas version above, too.

[Dooglas]

The S-40 Suzuki only weighs about 50 lbs more than the TU250. I'd think anyone that can ride one, can ride the other. If you have an application where the 250 isn't quite enough power, the 650 will do the job. It pulls like a tractor .

[Southerner]

Although in general I like the S40, the cruiser-on-a-budget is not my favorite look.

Nevertheless, I do like the bike and tried one out for size at my local dealership. I was surprised to find that the seat to peg ergos were uncomfortably tight. And I only have a 30" inseam! So definitely try one out first.

The same basic engine in the DR650 dirt bike might better suit the longer-limbed. It's much taller but not nearly so much as the Kawasaki KLR650 dirt bike. The DR's tuning and gearing also allow a higher top end so I would conclude that the S40 is remarkably understressed, which should allow for a long service life. It's also the only Suzuki with a belt final drive.

[Lance Corona]

Interesting entry level offering from Indiana.....water cooled 2 stoke no less.

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/11/ ... -original/

[Dooglas]

I do like the bike (S-40) and tried one out for size at my local dealership. I was surprised to find that the seat to peg ergos were uncomfortably tight. And I only have a 30" inseam! So definitely try one out first.

Try first is always the right answer. Interesting, though, that the seating geometry did not work for you. I also have a 30" inseam - and an S-40 . In my case, the ergonomics of seat height, pegs, and grips seems to work just right. Just goes to show that each rider is a bit different.

[RoaringTodd]

Has anyone discussed the Honda Nighthawk 250? They can be had around here for 1 to 2 thou and I'd go for a red or black one. Anyone have any experience with those?

[still shifting]

That Janus from Indiana is soo Cute! I think I hate it already. R