Thinking about buying a Stella? or waiting for New PX 150?

maxv · Post by **maxv** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:46 am

I use to have a 1963 Vespa GS 160 and sold it about 4 years aga and regrett it every day. I'm now looking at the 2012 Stella 4T and reading your blogs.
if money is not a concern and the New PX 150 does come to North America soon what are your opions?
I've been out of the scoot scene here in CA. for awhile and wonder what
the riding community have to thnk about Stella?
I would like to Mod it out alittle with just a few extra lights? where do I go for this?LED lights would be good too?
Thank you for your kind replys.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:46 am

A new Vespa PX150 in 4-stroke is a LOOOOONG wait for a train that don't come.

And if it does come, don't expect it to be 1,000x better in quality than the LML version, since both are built on essentially 40 year old tech. But, expect it to be anywhere from $1-2,000 more than a Stella.

As much as I love the original Vespa design, today they are priced as luxury fashion accessories. If you *must* have a Vespa, buy a vintage. If the idea of getting hands dirty to restore one doesn't suit you, the design in general of a PX won't fit you.

But, if you like the vintage ride style and feel, the Stella 4T is the best fit and the price can't be beat for 4-stroke compromise

Keith · Post by **Keith** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:41 pm

Neotrotsky, great advice!

maxv · Post by **maxv** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:58 pm

thank you for the words, now where can I get LED lights?

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:40 am

maxv wrote:thank you for the words, now where can I get LED lights?

Why do you feel the need for LED headlamps? The headlamp on a Stella/P-series really isn't bad. On my old Stella, the only thing I did to augment was to add an extra amber fog lamp for inclement weather.

As a technical director at a theater, I spend alot of time working with lighting. And, LED's, while cool, don't provide "better" light. In fact, LED's on average produce less focusable light and require many diodes to produce the same level that one halogen or incandescent element does. And, they have horrible spread pattern.

What makes LED's appealing is that they draw less power and generate less heat than their incandescent or halogen cousins. When they're engineered to a car from the get-go, it can reduce the load needed and allow you to re-route more power to other modern elements such as rear cameras, GPS systems and auto-engine management systems. To retrofit LED's on a bike like a Stella can be done, but it takes some engineering and it won't be cheap. And, the bike is made to run a traditional headlamp.

Would it look cool? Yeah, it may. But you will be spending quite a bit of change to do so. LED turn indicators and brakelights may be a better venture since you don't need focused lighting and the arrays on the market for those applications are far cheaper. But, producing many LED's that give off a wide angle beam is quite expensive from scratch.

Post by **ericalm** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:29 am

The "new" Vespa PX is a limited edition 2T 125 that won't be coming to the US. Because they didn't have a 4T engine for it, they had to dial down the performance to get it to pass ECE emissions.

Don't hold your breath for another PX or a US version.

If you really want one, you can still find new (er, unridden, some in crates) millennial PX150s at some dealers. A few have even made their way to California.

Keith · Post by **Keith** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:18 am

You might find hyper-Lights.com interesting when it comes to supplemental lighting.

Tweek · Post by **Tweek** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:03 am

ericalm wrote:The "new" Vespa PX is a limited edition 2T 125 that won't be coming to the US. Because they didn't have a 4T engine for it, they had to dial down the performance to get it to pass ECE emissions.

Don't hold your breath for another PX or a US version.

If you really want one, you can still find new (er, unridden, some in crates) millennial PX150s at some dealers. A few have even made their way to California.

You may get lucky like I did, I was about to buy a Stella and find a dealer with a still crated px150, she's sitting in my garage now

5 miles on her

Post by **ericalm** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:30 pm

There are still many new Millennium PX 150s around. I know of two in my area—just the same, still in crates until recently.

Scooter Superstore, a SE US chain that closed a couple years ago, was reportedly hoarding them and auctioned off dozens when they sold all of their stock. Yours could very well be one of these. They were shipped all over the country.

There have also been reports of unsold ones at dealers as late as last year. A lot of Vespa boutiques have closed in the past three years so it wouldn't surprise me if these wound up at auctions or sold off through other means.

magnato1 · Post by **magnato1** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:22 pm

Eric,

The Millenium PXs are still 2 stroke, right? So, how can they sell them in your area?

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:24 pm

As Eric said, the new 2T PX is not coming to the US. The "Millenium" PX bikes are now old enough that I believe it is legal to "import" them into California.

graywolf · Post by **graywolf** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:25 pm

Vespa Boutiques?

While those PX150's may still be in the shipping crate, I would bet that Vespa would claim that they are second hand, and thus no warranty other than what the dealer provides.

I find this thread interesting because I am thinking along the same lines as the OP, only cheaper. My first choice would be a new Stella 4T, then the PX150 or Stella 2T, and finally a clean ridable P200e. Hopefully my finances will be together enough to get one of those by spring.

Otherwise a Chinese scooter will go on my credit card. Hopefully that will not be necessary, because I really do want a manual shift.

I have done some thinking about a left over GTS, but then I am in the motorcycle price range. The problem there is I would want an all-purpose bike; what was originally called a sport bike, before the advertising types stole the name to put on cafe racers.

Unfortunately all the Genuine dealers are at least two hours away, so I can not go in and drool on the scooters.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:31 pm

Ah gosh, a Stella, or a PX, or a P200, or a sport bike, or a GTS, or a Chinascoot. Seems like you are still covering quite a bit of territory. How do you hope to use this bike?

graywolf · Post by **graywolf** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:30 pm

Dooglas wrote:Ah gosh, a Stella, or a PX, or a P200, or a sport bike, or a GTS, or a Chinascoot. Seems like you are still covering quite a bit of territory. How do you hope to use this bike?

Nope, not as complicated as you seem to think. The issue is money, not what I want.

At the top of the list would be a BMW R75/5 from the 70's, but one that is not going to be a money pit is out of my imaginable price range.

Also I am 69, so a scoot makes a lot of sense, and the Stella is my first choice there. That is $4500 OTD for a 2013 with a folding rear rack according to the closest Genuine dealer. I would need to finance that.

All the 2T are in the $2K to $2.5K, so if I can not get financing for the 4T, hope I will have enough to get one of those, but they are going to be harder to find.

So, since I have firmly decided I am going to get a ride in the spring, if none of those are possible, I will just get what I know I can afford even without anything extra. That is the Chinese 150cc scooter that will be about $1500 with tax and tags. Not exactly what I want, but it will put two wheels under me. Which I haven't had since a medical emergency forced me to sell my bikes more than twenty years ago.

Sure, I may be able to find a 2012 4T cheaper, all to the good. And maybe the car gods will demand a sacrifice, or my health will turn worse, I may even die before spring. But baring those I intend to be up on two wheels again.

So it is not a matter of being undecided, it is a matter of contingency planning.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:47 pm

I understand that your decision (like most everyone's) is cost-driven. And I also understand your desire to be up on two wheels in the spring (good for you

). I still suggest you focus in on what you are trying to achieve. If you mostly want to ride around town then a 150 scooter is a good choice. If you want a shifty, that is fine but recognize that they require somewhat more attention. If you decide a Stella is not happening for you, I would urge you to look at a new or used 125 Buddy. They are a reliable and cost effective machine. Yes they are a bit more than a Chinascoot, but not that much and $1500 is no bargain if it turns into a dead vehicle in the garage.

graywolf · Post by **graywolf** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:41 am

Dooglas wrote:I understand that your decision (like most everyone's) is cost-driven. And I also understand your desire to be up on two wheels in the spring (good for you ). I still suggest you focus in on what you are trying to achieve. If you mostly want to ride around town then a 150 scooter is a good choice. If you want a shifty, that is fine but recognize that they require somewhat more attention. If you decide a Stella is not happening for you, I would urge you to look at a new or used 125 Buddy. They are a reliable and cost effective machine. Yes they are a bit more than a Chinascoot, but not that much and $1500 is no bargain if it turns into a dead vehicle in the garage.

GRIN,

Nothing is going to turn into a dead vehicle in my garage. First I do not have a garage, second I have 60+ years experience fixing things mechanical and electrical, third I am not the type that is going to trash my ride through ignorance. That last is very important if you do not have a good dealer network to hold your hand. And if that is where I have to be, the scooter I have picked is far from the bottom of the line Chinese machines.

Five years back, parts for Chinese machines were very hard to get, I found that out when someone gave me a scooter that he had trashed. It was a local dealer (Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki) that pointed out to me that is no longer a problem. But, still, none of them have a manual transmission.

I am especially not interested in a 50cc pocket scooter with a larger engine stuffed into it.

BTW, do you realize that India's reputation for mechanical quality is no better than China's?. Both seem to be making rapid improvement however.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:12 am

graywolf wrote:Five years back, parts for Chinese machines were very hard to get, I found that out when someone gave me a scooter that he had trashed. It was a local dealer (Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki) that pointed out to me that is no longer a problem.

I'm not real sure what a Japanese motorcycle dealer would know about parts for "no brand" Chinascoots, but I'll leave that lie. The truth is that these Chinascoots do not have reliable dealer networks, do not have parts networks, and their warranties have limited value as there is no one to back them up. Now, if you simply want a "disposable" scoot to ride for a while and discard, that may all be okay. My advice is still to stick with a better supported brand such as Genuine, or Kymco, or Sym if you are simply trying to save money. (and, yes, I agree that the build quality on the LML Stellas is somewhere middle ground

, but they ARE supported by a reputable dealer network, parts network, and a real warranty - that means something)

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:54 am

Greywolf, dont know where you are located but $4500.00 with the chrome
rear rack OTD seems a a bit pricy. Vespa Marietta here in the Atlanta
area has the 2012s at $3699.00. The rear rack is around $130.00.
I bought mine with front and rear rack from them for $3758.00 OTD
Granted this was for the 2012 model but it included GA sales tax as well.

graywolf · Post by **graywolf** » Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:58 pm

Wolfhound wrote:Greywolf, dont know where you are located but $4500.00 with the chrome
rear rack OTD seems a a bit pricy. Vespa Marietta here in the Atlanta
area has the 2012s at $3699.00. The rear rack is around $130.00.
I bought mine with front and rear rack from them for $3758.00 OTD
Granted this was for the 2012 model but it included GA sales tax as well.

Well, that price (actually $4527.25) is not a "I am standing there with money in my hand" price. It is list + destination + PDI + NC tax, title, and tag in the spring when they will be selling best that they quoted me via email. However, It does give me a maximum cost to buy a Stella 4t, for reference. There are three dealers about two hours from here, when ready to buy I will contact all of them. There is also one in Raleigh that has been advertising 2012 models for $2999, I will probably contact them too, although they are nearly 4 hours from here.

Since the dealers are all so far away, I figure I also have to budget for a trailer to haul the thing in for any warranty service. That is not all bad, as I figure I can build a box on it; and store the scooter in there over the winter which will eliminate the need to rent a storage unit. Not too expensive but it does bring the whole "outside" price up to $5K.

I am hoping, of course, that I will wind up about a thousand less than that; but I have found out over the years that I have to plan for the worse case scenario to avoid unpleasant surprises. In case anyone is wondering, I got an insurance quote from my agent, so that is figured for too.

vantage · Post by **vantage** » Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:07 pm

If you have that kind of fix it experience, I would shop around for a used machine of the type you want.

People are going broke in this economy and are selling stuff off for cash as needed.

Network, get the word out and get what you want at a price you are willing to pay. I know someone who just bought a yamaha 650 motor cycle for 350.00. It needed a cylindar for the clutch cable and a couple of other small repairs and is now in use for a work commute of 45 mins or more. The bike is in good condition in terms of rust, paint job etc and had new tires.

There are likely good vespas out there for the taking as well.

graywolf · Post by **graywolf** » Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:13 pm

vantage wrote:If you have that kind of fix it experience, I would shop around for a used machine of the type you want.

People are going broke in this economy and are selling stuff off for cash as needed.

Network, get the word out and get what you want at a price you are willing to pay. I know someone who just bought a yamaha 650 motor cycle for 350.00. It needed a cylindar for the clutch cable and a couple of other small repairs and is now in use for a work commute of 45 mins or more. The bike is in good condition in terms of rust, paint job etc and had new tires.

There are likely good vespas out there for the taking as well.

Good advice, I do have my ear to the ground, and I mention my interest to most everyone I meet. Good deals do happen, even to me sometimes. Recently a guy I know sligthly got a BSA Lightning for $500 that only need a clutch cable and a wash and wax job. So, yes, those kind of deals are out there. I probably should start keeping a hundred dollar bill in my wallet, so I can make a binding deposit on anything that comes up suddenly. It would also serve to remind me that I am serious about this.

I kind of feel like I have taken over this thread, and do apologize to the OP, but you guys keep coming up with such good, interesting, & useful ideas that I feel I have to respond.

Happy New Year to everyone.

fisher1 · Post by **fisher1** » Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:54 pm

Recently a guy I know sligthly got a BSA Lightning for $500 that only need a clutch cable and a wash and wax job.

Like myself, many Brit bike owners that I know would advise against directing a hose onto that BSA, rather just wiping it clean with damp rags & then drying with dry ones.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:11 pm

Greywolf, re trailers: Check out Tractor Supply when you shop for
one. I have 2 of theirs, a 5x8 that is set up to haul 2 scoots and a
6x8 set up to haul my sidecar rig. I beleive that you could build a cover
on either easily and if you keep an eye on Tractor Supply
they run sales on them occasionally. Well built flat bed trailers with a rear
loading gate.

graywolf · Post by **graywolf** » Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:20 pm

Thanks Wolfhound, It seems they have just opened a TS store over in Ashe County. I will keep and eye out for a sale.